TEKKEN And Its Unnecessary Difficulty 

45 characters to 25 characters, TMM is the Thanos of Tekken. "Balanced.. as all things should be."

Mainman: the only streamer who can turn a competitive game into a philosophy class so that we all can question our existence

We have 45 characters with about 100 moves each on average and yet Harada refuses to put frame data in the game to give beginners an easier time Let that sink in for a second

Also keep in mind that KBD was not an actual intended mechanic of the game. It's like one of those cheats we used to have in old school games that players found.

I agree with you on the korean backdash thing, we don't want tekken to be an elitist game for hardcore players only. We want it to be accessible to people of all ages.

I don't think removing characters and making the game smaller would be the right choice. But adding a COMPLETE tutorial which teaches you the fundamentals, the main strings for each char, the properties of rhe moves, the movement, the frames, the punishing, etc etc, would no doubt attract new people. Don't have your fans needing to visit external webs to try learning your game.

I enjoy learning the infinite knowledge and mastering the hard execution in this game tbh, this is exactly what makes this game my absolute favourite game of all time. We are ALWAYS learning in this game, EVERY single opponent we face is different, EVERY single character could be played in MANY different ways. And this game is like taking my brain to the gym, it legit feels amazing to make a hard read and to punish with your execution skills.

Idk the definition of depth vs complexity but i always assumed it was the opposite ? Depth is how deep you can go with the mechanics the game gives you and complexity is how many mechanics there are.

Regarding korean backdash, i halfway agree with you. I think there should be a way for new players to create space without doing a relatively hard input, but i dont think taking away the current way of doing it is a good idea because its actually very intuitive once you do improve at it. I have some alternatives in mind: Instead of what you suggest of making it universal by just mashing back to retreat, make the actual backdash recover faster. Now mashing back will be viable at beginner and intermediate levels but if u want to take it to high level play, you’re gonna have to commit yourself and learn the proper way of korean backdashing. Now everyone is happy, the game is much more accessible to new players and advanced people can do the most optimal version of the technique and enjoy that. Also an improved tutorial would do wonders for getting new players but ive rambled enough thats a topic for another day lol.

New-ish player here. Honestly I just wish they gave us the option to have the training mode bubbles (High, mid, low) and color coded grabs (1,2,1+2) in casual play. There's just too many steps to learn how to defend properly with little info in the game, and it makes the whole thing really frustrating; proof is, you can go in blue ranks and see players doing clean combos but getting hit by the same strings over and over again. Cherry on top would be adding a flash or something whenever a player makes a + on block move. It would make the whole thing MUCH easier to learn, but you'd still have to work your way through punishing and memorizing this whole thing to step in ranked, where the whole assist system would be forcefully disabled. Mechanical knowledge is a factor too, but at least you can focus on every step of a input and learn it by yourself, so I'd be fine with no changes.. While KBD is discouraging to new players, I don't think it makes or break their experience. Having to lab every single string of every single character, even though they're not going to use half of those in an actual game, does.

As someone who's been playing since Tekken 1, I love how deep the gameplay is... but we know enough about game design and how people approach new games at this point to have our cake and eat it too. There's no reason Tekken can't be approachable AND complex. Tekken 7 made some interesting strides in that area; here's to hoping Namco goes further next time.

I love this game. In order to really invest myself, I bought a fightstick and noticed how much different the game felt compared to a gamepad. I love the complexity, I've poured hours in Tekken; but I know that if I ever tried to get anybody in this game it would be extremely difficult. Regardless of the hours I've poured in, i know I have so much more to learn in order to actually be able to compete with people who've played this game for YEARS. I'm stubborn, hard-headed, and I love some of these characters. I love it when both players HP is low and the cogs are turning in both players brain to win. Because of that, I can keep going and I can lose 100 battles and more in order to win 1. The ocean is big in this game, some of it is too big for the average person. You never know what fish is gonna come out and eat you.

Trying to learn this game gives me a headache, I just watch lmao

I agree with you main man, but i don't think the classic input should be removed. I think there should be a middle ground, where you can mash back and get a pseudo kbd, maybe not as fast, or not as far range, and the legacy players who have put in the time can still be rewarded with their excellent movement. I think this makes everyone happy, and retreating a bit easier, while still giving the dedicated a good enough reason to practice, and another option.

That's so, so damn right. The only Tekken players I've ever met were in their 30's. Grew up with the game, and would leave it for absolutely no other fighting game. Including me. Your content is really relevant. I think the exact same way and I'm probably far from being the only one, keep going TMM. The Tekken players are by your side.

it's more satisfying to learn stuff when it's hard imo, so i like the difficulty even though im a new player

I'd say that from a perspective of the brand new players, there would be "stages of interest" and most of them would go like this: 1. The game looks cool. 2. I finish the story. 3. If I enjoyed it, I play some casuals 'vs CPU' for some time. 4. I checkout the additional content (minigames and such) 5. I realize that I'm enjoying the heck outta this, so I might try SOME IN-GAME CHARACTER SPECIFIC TUTORIALS, to get a grasp of what's actually going on (We don't have those in game tutorials right now BTW.) 6. I'm hooked at this point: Plot is amazing, characters are badass, there's a hell of a casual content to enjoy if I get frustrated, there's an alive community that I can interact with, and I hear that the devs actually care about online (punishment for ragequits and automatic win for the ones who had stayed, no local rank saving, better matchmaking) - HOLY CRAP! IT MIGHT BE WORTH MY TIME! LEMME LEARN A CHARACTER! The problem is that in our current state, those very players leave after stage 2 or 3 at max - I mean most of them (my friends included). They are not able to reach stage 4, 5 and 6, cuz they're non existent. WHAT IF they did exist? Well then we would have brand new fishes in our ocean at the stage 6. I agree with KBD. I'd make it that double tap back does a 'casual korean backdash' (u know, the one that is not so good, but not so bad either. Technically ideal for spacing), and I'd leave the cancel in here as an option to maximize the speed. That way, by performing the legacy KBD (the current one) you can move even faster, if you want to (There would be an entertaining and detailed tutorial in game on how to do that too). As for 'move bloating' I don't think that's a problem. I can have 100 characters, each with +150 moves and I won't mind that at all, given that the game is hella entertaining. And the term 'study' (as a chore) would cease to exist if that 'entertaining' aspect was in there (all of the latter stages). Aight enough of this essay. Have a good one, everybody who read through this, whether you agree with it or not.

The difficulty is what makes Tekken a masterpiece and the best FG for me. Always learning new stuff and when you think you are getting good at the game you get punched in the stomach. Amazing, never change Tekken

I have picked up this game about 8 years ago. The complexity and difficulty of this game is what reeled me in. I am still finding out stuff about my main and picking up new characters just to keep the game fresh and expanding my knowledge more on the character rooster. There’s always something to polish in your gameplay, and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

tekken is abt players creating new original techniques within the games engine, which helps developers make better sequels. that is the circle of tekken life

Honestly i probably wouldnt be into tekken as much as i am as a relatively new player if it were easier. I always gravitate towards hard games because of the challenge it gives me and the reward makes the work worth it

For me personally the kbd is what turned me on to tekken in the first place. The reason I like execution in fighting games is because it kinda reflects the work you have to put in as a martial artist. So while most fighting games place the execution on attacks and combos (like the difficulty of performing kicks, punches and takedowns in real martial arts) I always thought of tekkens movement cancels a the performance of footwork (like pivots and sways). Another factor is that I felt like movement in other fgs like street fighter was kind of stiff espescially when I was mostly used to the movement in smash.

I agree with the backdash being unnecessarily difficult for such a simple thing, and I do also agree with the shortening of the move list. The only thing I don't personally agree on is shortening the character list, it allows for everyone to choose someone that they gel with, you know. The amount of characters is overwhelming and takes a while to find which one fits their play style, but then that takes the fun out of it, finding your character is only the beginning of the fun.

Tekken is way too easy. The fact that you only have to do a quarter circle for each step you take backwards is literally brain dead. You should at least have to do a just frame half circle per foot that you move. and the move lists are way too small, there should at least be 2000 moves per character. And the ewgf is way to easy, in the games I play, the ewgf input is how you do a jab

This is so on point. Just imagine 37 yo grabbing 7 when last one I played was 2 at the arcade near my elementary school. So much to take in before you even start playing. Can't blame people without fond memories as mine just to skip it altogether. That said love your content, quality stuff, helps a lot. Take care.

TheMainMan is absolutely right that sometimes less is more. I dont think that developers should remove some moves from the game, but movement should be easier. Tracking system must be more consistent and predictabe. It won't harm the game, because better player will always be a better player. For example, even simpliest games like Tetris an Pong need strategy and skill, and you won't defeat Tetris champion who has been playing it for most of his life. I've been playing Tekken since 1999 and I love it, but I'm worried about its future. Most of players are 30+ years old enthusiasts like me, and young people dont want to spend tons of time just to learn how to move properly. Moreover, should I remind you that fighting games genre overall is dying? Tekken must evolve to survive.

took me about a month constantly practicing a kbd to get an decent one so i think making it easier will help newer players. maybe keep the kbd but have a weaker version by hitting bb

I actually appreciate Tekken’s difficulty. I never found easy fun. It makes it more satisfying once you finally master something and start to destroy people & you start to see all your hard work pay off. It’s kinda like a school project. You can just do a regular old mento in the soda bottle volcano project, but if you really show out and put your absolute best into the project the praise you’ll get is very rewarding and satisfying.

Tekken needs a well designed tutorial, plus i agree on many stuff you said in the video you made good points.

Absolutely agree about the backdash. Similar thing in Smash with short hops. Instead of learning fundamentals and character specifics, I gotta grind to learn how to move back. It's elitist and just covers a flaw in the game design...terrible backdashes. Coming from 2D, Tekken's movement feels...sticky. Like, I know basic strategy...I know when I want to move and why...but I can't. If you can't move in this game you're not really playing.

The Kazuya main wants Tekken to be more simple. What a surprise.

Fighting games will always have this curse of becoming less and less popular with time, because the legacy players will completely crush the newer players every time, making it impossible for newer players to enjoy a game with someone on their own level.

i'm pretty sure that's why you(we?!) love kazuya. because he's a 5 move character and you don't beat anyone with an overwhelming move-count, but by being the frickin master strategist and executioner. no other charater waits 20 seconds to get the damn ewgf in and unleash hell. and no other character looks so much like punishment-incarnate like kazuya. he's the worst when you suck (like me) and the best when you got gud.

Why is the red dot on a dart board so small? I mean, can't they just make the whole board red so that every time I throw a dart it's always a bull's eye?

Give us a tutorial. I'm like 2 months into the game and still discovering basic mechanics that I should've been aware of on day 1. Game just drops you in the main menu and you gotta figure it out.

I used to hate the complexity when I first picked up tekken 7, now I've learnt to love it, you are always learning somthing new in tekken, that's the beauty of the game.

Some steps are to allow us to see frame data for moves in practice mode and allow online practice mode. Also allow people to practise when in a custom game when waiting for someone else's game to finish instead of just spectating

The Souls series is popular for a reason. Also, Tekken already has a simple and intuitive method of creating space between yourself and your opponent: you simply hold the back button. Your character will guard while walking backwards (they even finally smoothed the animation). If you want to quickly retreat a larger distance from your opponent, you can backdash by tapping the back button twice - standard fighting game concept. Now the trade off is that if you want to quickly escape, then you sacrifice your ability to defend as well with a backdash; if you want to prioritize strict defense, then you can sacrifice movement speed with back walking. Deciding which one fits your situation is up to the player. That's the "easy" method of defense the game developers intended. Now, backdash canceling is a way to take advantage of the game's natural movement mechanics to "have it all" - speed and defense. Now, on the the surface, such a concept seems game breaking - you're not supposed to be able to have it all. This concept was so groundbreaking, that we literally named it Korean backdash" after the Korean players who showed it to us. It's not supposed to be natural or intuitive, it's basically a FUCKING CHEAT. Why on earth would something so powerful be easy? What Tekken does, in a similar method to the Souls games, is push players far past what they think they are capable of - to the degree that something as difficult as backdash canceling becomes second nature to people like me who've put the time and effort into it. It's not for everybody; if you dont want to put the time and effort in, you're still perfectly capable of playing the game casually with your other friends who dont care enough to learn the finer points of the game - and you'll have a great time, I did it for years, and plenty of people are doing it now. Now, you might say in response: "But, it's impossible to play without these techniques on a competitive level!" The only reason that's true is because all of the best players have learned how to do it, and that means that they've put the time and energy into mastering it. And if you havent put the time and energy into mastering it, then what on earth do you think gives you the right to be able to compete on their level? That's like being upset that you cant compete against professional basketball or football (American or the "real" kind) players because you think it takes too much work to become as fast, strong, and skilled as them. I've always found this attitude that we should for some reason "level the playing field" between newer players and veterans to be at best completely absurd, and at worst, it sounds downright entitled.

I actually think it's pretty cool that tekken is very hard

AS A NEWCOMER TO THE GAME COULDN'T AGREE MORE! I am 20 years old and i have always loved fighting games.I used to play tekken 5 but i was really young and didnt really knew what i was doing.Recently i reached grandmaster in mortal kombat 11 and i thought that it would be a good idea if i try something different to further expand my skills.tekken in my opinion is a wonderfull game with a huge mechanical demand which is good .but as you said a movelist that big for every character and some unnecessary like korean back dash are at least , overwhelming for someone that has not been playing FOR YEARS.I know almost every essential thing ,like frama data etc ,that every fighting game player should know. BUT I DONT EVEN STAND A CHANGE COMPITING WITH THESE GUYS because as a newcomer is impossible for me to learn all the 27000 moves in the game ,(which of them are interruptible,what part is caranted if the first hit hits,to what direction i should side step,etc).dont get me wrong i love the mechanical skill that tekken requires you to acquire,and how it pushes you to improve as a player. I can see why an ewgf or a wave dash is hard to execute and i love that , because there is a meaning behind it,its hard for the character to do it so it only makes sense that it must be hard for the player too. But some things like kbd that the only thing that your character does is dashing backdowrds,or ENORMOUS move lists, imo have to go cause they are really unnecessary and they only thing that they add, is frustration to the new players that are hardcore fans of the genre.

To be fair the Korean back dash was never intended by the developers to be part of the game

Wow....these were always exactly my thoughts too...i'm happy that someone with visibility brought it on the surface

There’s a reason why when we see people with amazing movement in Tekken pro matches we go crazy, but in SFV if we see someone whiffing enemy’s attack with a back dash we’re like “whatever”... remove the difficulty barrier and we get the “whatever” effect for Tekken as well. And tbh, if you try hard enough you should be able to master kbdc in not so much time.

I think the problem isn't the 40+ characters and their 100+ moves per se, there are 2 giant factors that make everything a much worse grind: -proper evasive movement -random crush It's so weird that you have to do a korean backdash so you have a "proper" backdash to make your enemies whiff their moves, that alone needs practice. And not every sidestep works "same well", some characters have better sidesteps, some moves have to be sidestepped to a specific direction and sometimes you even have to sidewalk in order to make the enemy whiff. Lots of labbing. And then there is unfair crush. I won't make an essay, here are 2 examples: Katarinas hopkick crushes highs, lows and even mids sometimes Lings Art of Phoenix stance crushes mid jabs. Absolutely mind boggling, evasive movement should be easier and a mid should always hit. Then I wouldn't mind learning 44 characters

I think you're missing an important point about the KBD. In my opinion, it's not unnecessarily difficult. It's there for players who are willing to put in the time and be rewarded for learning it. It's not like regular back dash doesn't exist/isn't useful. New players don't need to learn a KBD immediately in order to start playing and enjoying themselves. The fact that even a mechanic as simple as movement in Tekken is difficult makes it infinitely more appealing to me than every other modern fighting game on the market.

Just wanna say, the first video I've even watched of you was your FIRST Bryan synopsis video... Since then Ive been hooked cause I realize you're critical thinker and not just a play on autopilot and confidence type of guy. You appreciate challenges and you don't complain- you just get better. And that's perfect , sometimes just watching a random video you post makes me feel better about the game and playing it entirely. please don't ever stop ‼️

As a player who started learning Tekken with Tekken 7. I absolutely love the complexity and depth. Although there is a lot to learn you don't need to learn and practice to each according knowledge to be competitive or to win, not even close. You do not need to know everything to enjoy this game. The potential is huge but no need to fulfill it to the fullest to have fun and play competitively. Isn't that why we still see pro players with 15+ years making matchup knowledge and execution errors? A great positive is that I still learn new shit even after playing it for more than 2 years with 300+ hours, it is really satisfying and exciting. Hell, even when I don't have access to good internet to play online imma open that shit up and practice my KBD and combos, I fail to get bored of those practices. I see it as an extension to my player ability just like how athletes train their body regularly. Lastly, I think you make a wrong assumption as to why people will prefer a fighting game over the other. People don't decide to play Street Fighter over Tekken because it is easier and has less depth, mostly it is because they want to play the shota characters with shoryukens, hadoukens and with a projectile zoning game. While the new player growth is low, I think Tekken has one of the most loyal player base attributed to the features I mentioned above. Taking away the execution will open up the game for more new players but it is such a good game to play and spectate. Tekken 7 easily had the hypiest moments in its history and removing the complexity will definitely hurt it.

6:52 You nailed why I'm not fond of grinding most FGs. I wish we could get to the strategy easier, and not be bogged down by the mechanics.

dude i played many games and havent met one person with that kind of knowledge. ur rly one of a kind professor

He has a great point. Mechanics like the korean back dash was never an intended mechanic but now its vital in order to be somewhat competent at the game. It's the same unofficial mechanic with the dragon ball budokai series. cancelling combos was just something that was accidentally discovered and now if you try to play at a intermediate or high level you will get your ass handed to and now the gameplay revolves around it. that's where tekken in it's way suffers. As a law player, it's even more of a testament because something like dragon stance after certain moves is not even taught to you. the only reason why I even found because it looked so odd and out of place and RU-vid has to tell you how to do. And that's the worst thing a fighting game can do is when they don't show you how to do it. It leaves people scratching their heads because it doesn't explain at all that you can do that and what's more even damning is that if you don't know it's there then if means the difference between killing off a opponent with a combo or losing because you have to now play around an unintended mechanic. And just like he said, no one new is going to want to practice for weeks or months or even years to learn just one mechanic in order to become decent let alone someone like King who literally has over 200 moves in his command list when in reality high level players may only really at best use only 25 to 50 moves to win. Just my opinion

For me, the difficulty of tekken is what got me hooked in the game. The learning process is very steep and hard but seeing that my time of practicing mechanics such as kbd, wavedashing, throw breaking, and punishing is showing difference in skill during matches just makes me want to improve even further.

I love these Nerdy videos

I just want a fucking tutorial. I didnt even know the moves that make your character go flippy are called screw moves.

TMM is on a fucking roll with the videos, this is quite the time to be a sub rn

if they simplify tekken, all the hardcore players are gonna lose their shit, it'd be hilarious

Yay another lecture! Honestly I could listen to you all day! Great video as always, very well explained and presented 👍! I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me on a 25 character cast and a shorter move list. In an alternate universe, we could reboot Tekken together and blow the roof. Wishful thinking ❣️!

Ok... I know this is about tekken but the how when why thing is teaching me some serious thinking life skills. Thanks! You didn't need to explain that and it greatly enriched my knowledge and the video. A++

honestly all tekken needs is an improved tutorial for everything that could possibly happen, then a character specific tutorial for people looking to main certain characters

I’m going to start applying your method to my ways of learning now I agree with your logic great video

Ty for the kbd notation!

I was a King main and then Law main. Law combos were hard af with the dss cancelling but I got used to it. Left the game, came back a month later and got into Paul. I realized the answer to life was just UAAARGH

They just have to explain the concepts to new players so that they understand the game better, yet still rewarding players for transforming that knowledge into execution. For example, there are many players that understand how to throw there opponent (because it’s in each characters move list) but they don’t understand how to break them. So if you implemented a tutorial that explains how throw breaking works it would help a new player gain understanding but it won’t give them the execution required to break a command throw on reaction consistently which would reward season players, vets, etc who put the time in to practice execution of these fundamentals And this is just one example in the entire game

As an ex smash 4 and smash ultimate player here who is looking into a new fighter really enjoyed this video. Smash is really interesting because it is really easy to learn how to play smash, their no crazy techs and everything you see a pro do you can do it (for the most part) because the game mechanics are easy to pick up and learn (most of them). Smash really relies on the when and why aspect and that is what I love smash. The reason for me leaving smash however is because the online is horrible in ultimate. I was looking into Tekken because I've watched some gameplay on high level and it looks fun but it is really disappointing to hear that it is so tech-based to the point I have to practice in training mode to just do simple moves. I am a casual gamer don't care that much about winning and rank I just want to get on play a few games and go into practice mode sometimes to master my character without having to do so much work. it's sad to see a game that really peaked my interest turn me off due to the high skill ceiling that I am not willing to clime.

The thing I wish the most is better ways to learn the game inside the game. Put frame data in the move list, give us a frame data UI on the screen in practice mode if we want one. Also, with current machine learning advancements or just clever use of good old statistics, you could make bots behave like real players, or at least a lot closer to them, so that you could spar against a character you want to improve against instead of having to specifically "program" them yourself. Having trouble against Hwoarang? Go into practice mode, pick him as your opponent, pick a skill level and off you go against AI controlled Hwoarang that uses the same moves and movement as a generic Hwoarang would at that approximate skill level. And for the love of god, make a real tutorial. Teach newbies straight out what unblockable, high, mid, low, special mid and throw attacks are. How to get off the ground, what's a launcher, what's a combo, what the wall does, how to break a throw, what's a parry, what's an armor move, what the while running and while standing states are... The list goes on.

If I were to add to the list: it's simply because of lack of balance and reward between characters (easier/harder characters with more/less time put into them).

its honestly one of my favorite parts of the game, it makes me respect my opponent more when i see how they move and know the work they put in the achieve that. Also, it would unbalance mishima characters, because the skill gap between them and every other character in the game would be even larger if they removed kbd. If "how" is so unimportant, then why not make all godfists electric?

looks like they're doing the less characters in tekken 8

As much as I love tekken, yeah it's too much. Too many moves, emphasis on movement is too important for no reason. You get characters that have 2 throws, then some that have 4 or 5. You have moves that crush weirdly. It's insane.

Would be cool if you could interview the frame whisperer. Both analytic, been in the game for awhile. A conversation between you two would serve the community well and consolidate your fanbases.

As a 35 year old player who barely picked up T7 after not playing a tekken since 3 I can say that it’s rewarding achieving these tekken milestones by practicing. It’ll annoy me if they simplify it the next go around. I was playing sfv before I picked this game up and I regret not playing it sooner.

Highly underrated vid yet

Honestly the hardest part about tekken to me is blocking Its so hard to block in general considering a lot of mixups are 50/50s But then there's all the strings that have sneaky lows in them It would be easier to learn to block if there weren't as many characters It's pain:')

Brother i enjoyed listening to you but I picked up tkn because of the graphics(no-stylized) and the infinite no. of characters, held on because of how much there was to learn about them

Damn I feel like I'm back in school again, slept through this

Thank you so much for the information! Is it possible to categorize moves with similar properties? Do the moves share similarity also come with same or close inputs? Well, that would be a hell of huge guide to put out. I as a beginner will be so very appropriated if there is a sort of general principle to follow, in terms of learning the game. It is overwhelming to gather all information of different characters in game matches. Doing lab by yourself is also hard to keep on going.....

All Tekken needs is a basic tutorial covering important mechanics. The existence of movement cancelling, High/Mid/Low system, and other basic stuff like parties etc. If someone isn't willing to put in the time learning KBD, they're likely not willing to learn anything else about the game. It takes a few hours to groove the basic input, and then it's just improving your consistency slowly over time.

I agree with you on mechanics like Backdash being easier and move list being simplified a bit but not to the degree you’re asking for. Somewhere close to 60-80 moves is cool imo but rosters size should probably at the most be 50. I’m cool with rosters on average being 30-40. The comparison to Endgame/Infinity War was a weak argument. A lot of fans main a lot of different characters and removing some of them doesn’t add anything or incentivize new players to pick up Tekken. I’d like to see you provide a some evidence where a franchise taking away characters has contributed to new players.

You can say it's called TECHen huh? 😂

Paul Lee all dlc character all the spammy one's made me go nuts and break my kbd

If this was a 8am lecture at Uni i would never miss a class

more of this please!!

I saw one guy in the comments down here with an idea to jut make the backdash recover quicker, which I like, so here's my spin on that. The first backdash is your standard run of the mill backdash with all normal backdash capabilites. The second backdash follows suit, but the third backdash loses the ability to block while backdashing, same with the 4th, and then the 5th consecutive backdash puts you into ki charge. You can stop these symptoms of spam backdashing by learning to kbd. Spamming back is easier and a bit faster, but not as safe, while the kbd keeps you safe from danger at the cost of some speed.

it's necessary, i feel good and proud by doing hard things that's why i love tekken.

Personally i like the game like that, but i think its necessary to include the frame data in training and a big, great and complete tuto like in MK11. I don't want to play a 3D SFV just because many guys want a simple game

I can see where he's coming from, but for me part of what makes Tekken great and satisfying to play is how technical is. Movement is hard, but you feel like a fucking god when you evade a pressure and take your opponent's soul for loving his buttons too much.

Not to mention Hitbox. Which not only completely removes the barrier of KBD and Wavu speed with it's SOCD; but it also makes just frames way easier. KBD is just there to fuck with new players at this point, cause everyone else can already do it consistently 99% of the time.

Satisfaction in difficulty is way more different than bloating. Gg TMM

My first experience of Tekken was Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (fuck me right) and it really scared me off due to the base Tekken difficulty, AND having to play 2 characters. I grew up on MvC and Soul Calibur, so seeing the crazy long movelists just made it seem impossible. I gave it up entirely. Then Tekken 7 came out and it looked super good, and tournaments are such a blast, so I gave it another shot and loved it. I even went back to TTT2 and did well lol All that being said, the difficulty can certainly be daunting at first, but it's a very good way to filter out the bad players vs the good ones.

The main argument of people supporting the bloat is "we have choice now". Yes you have many characters to choose from, and it's great for casual play. But when you want to go beyond that, you'll realize you have a massive wall before you (the bloat), preventing you from being as good as the legacy players. And you'll also realize learning one character is not enough to be good a the game, because you'll need to, at the very least, lab half of the roaster at the same time to have a slight chance, even if you don't plan to play them.

This is pretty true, i have recently came back to Tekken and i feel like i see new character online and i just cant win pretty much because i have no clue what his frames or even moves are how to punish what etc. not mentioning the good strategy in this case is to backdash (korean backdash) which i am not good at yet. Good video keep the good work going :)

Watching your videos is weird because you look and sound just like one of My friend but just talk in Swedish accented English instead of Finnish :D great videos, interesting and I’ve learned a lot!

Making kbd or execution in general easy, is like removing build orders from an RTS game or spraypatterns from CSGO. It's that thing you need to practice for dozens of hours so that it becomes second nature and you can actually start to focus on strategy. Many competitive games revolve around making it harder for the opponent to perform or benefit from strong techniques.

Even if no less characters, I think the gap for beginners lies in finding out what moves are actually useful at all and ignoring the rest and remember all the important ones.

Nice and informative video,I agree with most of your views on the problems that Tekken has,the only thing I consider to be wrong is the number of characters,yes it's huge(40+) but (25) is too small for a roster,it is like jumping form one extreme to the other,I think 30 players would be the ideal,for example you can't have both Kuma and Panda in two different character icons while you can just put them together and just decide which one u wanna pick by pressing a different button...

in my opinion, they should keep the korean backdash the same difficulty, but they should make normal backdashing faster. if a normal backdash is like 60-70% the speed of a korean backdash, low to mid level players can stick to normal backdashing, while professional players have room to optimize their play. that way, the skill floor is lower but the skill ceiling is the same height.

I wish i could earn credits for attending these lectures

i dont mind execution barriers, but bloating i do. i think execution is a part of depth to a specific character. also, if there were only 25 characters, i dont mind if theres a few characters like yoshi with 150 moves.

I started with tag 2 and got serious in T7 and honestly if it was easier idt I wouldnt have kept playing. I never felt it was. Bloated cause I never studied EVERY move just the problem moves. In that way its bite size and eventually you learn everything. In a way it keeps you learning and things interesting.

I'm no hardcore player but I've stuck by the series since the OG. I mainly just enjoy the casual side of things with fam/friends. The story Is something I enjoy too.

While I'd love for movement to become simplified I'm not entirely sure how they could go about doing that, necessarily