Thank you very much for breaking down the topic into easily digestible content. It's very resourceful. This gives a very good overall picture of the battery systems in EV's. This is the 101 I've been looking for, since a long time! It'd be great to see a video on the battery management system as a continuation.
Beautifully explained. I thought the nominal voltage would be higher than 350V. Amazing how the electric motor and related electronic components can handle such such high current (1800A-2000A). Thank you!
Just as good a video as I expected it to be... Do you recall that I suggested that you do a video about the electric motors used by Tesla, and that they switched technology from the Model S/Model X to the Model 3 (induction vs PMSRM)? Well, things have gotten more interesting since then: it has been announced that the AWD Model 3 will have BOTH an induction motor and a PMSRM motor (at the rear and front respectively, if my memory doesn't fail me). I am eagerly waiting for your inquiry on this!
The problem with the temperature difference between coolant input and output can be solved by reversing the flow on regular basis. This will alternate the temperature exposure for the cells close to the input or output. This will result in a more even degradation of the cells.
@@meslamian The idea also came to me. Provided the pump and cooling layout could provide for reverse flow, what is your argument against such functionality? A mechanical switch at the water pump would also be possible, but raises the risk of malfunction.
HI, it is really a good idea. in the air conditioning field, there is a 4ways valve connecting the outdoor and indoor units Refrigerant pipe. which can reverse the flow for the purpose of cooling or heating. I do not know it can apply or not. Just sharing
Awesome Video indeed, very knowledgeable. Can you please show the mechanical structuring and housing of charging ports in electric motorcycle battery packs ???
Very informative and excellent series. If you make a video on how to design a 18650 module, it will be great. Also if you make a video on battery pack mechanical structure design, it will be awesome. Thanks for such videos.
Dear Sir, Battery arrangement with coolant line can be changed to improve more efficient cooling. In the pic. you show where battery is not getting cooled properly. Best regds. Thank you.
thank you for the three parts series, I hope that you do another video of how tesla battery management system is work exactly. if you don't intend to do the video n the near future I would appreciate some gaudiness into a good reference site or book or whatever. thank you.
Thanks for the suggestion - I may not get around to it soon as I'm super busy right now, but this would be a good reference: batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_monitor_a_battery
Fantastic video! For the thermal system, I cannot seem to find the original test results from AVL. It may be in the link that is now broken. I am really looking to figure out how the flow rate was measured. 5 lpm seems too low for the overall cooling loop of the pack, but too high for the cooling of each individual module. Thank you.
7:00 21-23 A/cell? More like -21-23 mA, I think- *EDIT* 1.625 mA at 0.5C and 21-23 A at 6C. OK! Apart from nitpicking, great video once again which can actually go in depth on each aspects: cooling management (with interesting fluid mechanics considerations), BMS programming, pack manufacturing, materials in general, cell technology improvements, power electronics, overall cost considerations, competition, etc. Thanks a lot, can't wait to see what's next!
All three parts are excellent. A forth episode on the Tesla Inverter and a fifth on the Tesla Electric Management System are likely considerations for the future??
A great series of 3 videos- thanks for making them! However, they are less a set of explanations about why what Tesla has selected is the best choices for making an EV pack in ultimate terms, than they are a set of explanations of what Tesla has chosen and the (rather selective) reasons that those are good choices- for Tesla, from Tesla's perspective. To me, it seems rather likely that Tesla has "doubled down" on a fairly clever early adopter move, which was to piggyback on the mass production of laptop cells, hence reducing the number of "miracles" necessary to get them to market by one rather large one. It stands to reason that IF adequate thermal management is possible with larger cells, a pack made of larger cells will ultimately be cheaper than a pack made out of a (vastly) larger number of much smaller cells. Fewer parts and less packaging generally win- scale generally wins over numbering up in parallel. Since making a pack out of cells still represents a significant fraction of the total cost of making a pack, it remains to be seen if Tesla's approach will win the race to the bottom for pack prices per kWh stored. An added wrinkle in this is the recent Tesla announcement that the Model 3 21700 cell has an NCA cathode which may be as low as 5% cobalt. If true, and if indeed it's true that NCA is unsafe in anything larger than what Tesla is already using, it'll be the battle of more cost for more cells, versus the greater cost of a cell richer in cobalt (NCM 622 at 20% Co in the cathode, or perhaps one day NCM 811 at 10% Co in the cathode). Only time will tell.
I concur, now that Tesla has volume it can consider making it's own cell format. Logic would dictate stackable prismatic with integrated cooling circuit better for ease of assembly, or raw pouches with structure & cooling deported to the car better for price. Unless safety / regulation / configurability say otherwise.
I know this is an old comment, but it might be a bit harder to find information on the thermal systems. Tesla doesn’t create the micro port extruded tubes, a company called Valeo does on site.
Hello! Very infromative. I have a few questions: 1. Are the colling channels in contact with cells? 2. Are the colling channles covered with silicon to avoid shorting? 3. Does condensation occur inside the pack on the cooling channels? How do they deal with is?
Thank you very much for your videos. Helping me a lot as an amateur trying to get to grips with Tesla tech etc. What would you consider excessive pack resistance increase? Is there an acceptable limit for the Tesla packs (% increase or max mOhms)? Is there a value that ultimately puts the battery into the post knee degradation part of the curve? For example my 3 year old, 37k miles, 10% degraded, P90DL V1 pack gives CAN bus data that implies resistance is 66 mOhms (volts delta and amps at max power). Applying your Ohm numbers to the 90 pack gives a pack resistance of 47 mOhms. Do you think 66 versus 47 mOhms is excessive and of concern?
Can you make a video on graphene super capacitors and also their advantages over the present Tesla 's lithium ion batteries and also their drawbacks when compared to the lithium ion batteries
Great tear down of the Tesla pack and thermal management system. If the market adopts SSB technology and more precise thermal management is required, is it likely that Tesla will move their cooling technology to the use of a heat pump, or immersive cooling? A great video series is waiting to happen on this very subject. Any thoughts about doing one EV-Tech guys?
Heat extraction is essential to preserving the longevity and performance of any battery. Removing thermal energy from the equation, or re-purposing it is what will keep Tesla on top of the EV market.
Thermal management and attitudes towards thermal management is a major way in which different car makers will differ. Lower cost, solutions have been favoured by Nissan/Renault, whilst the more premium companies have gone with higher cost but more effective cooling.
EV-Tech Explained in the end it's all about energy density. Compact cheap EV's with sub-par heat management might sell better, but cooking batteries isn't a good idea. In the scope of planned obsolescence it can promote future sales by reducing longevity, but I foresee much more stumpy Nissan Leaf's clogging our landfills than Model 3's. Building a sustainable future is all about keeping it cool 😎.
thanks for this. you give very good information. can you give me information about battery capacity,storage,energy. what is price of single 21700 tesla battery. you tell in video one module is 100 kwh but when you calculate that was 6.3kwh what is mean of that.
Anyone come across a recent assessment of Tesla’s cell/BMS lead over the competition. I’m curious if Tesla will still be ahead of the competition when Tesla/Panasonic produce more batteries than the Tesla cars need. I’d love to see Tesla leading the competition when the big push toward battery storage projects both big and small start ramping up??
A video on actual improvement on battery density , ie early Tesla to model s 2018 and the possibilities for 2170 cells in improving battery density and mass improvements , obviously leading to lighter cell packs and improved power
Most likely re-use of Model 3 modules. Check out my new video on battery degradation - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XLnBg25JoHg.html
Why not air-cooling is used instead of water cooling? Air-cooling would further reduce the weight of the battery pack and the air is always available when the vehicle is in motion.
Love thes videos. Need your help: my 100D brand new has only total 96.9kWh Pack ref using TM-Spy to do a readout - why isn`t it 102.4kWh. It has only gone 28.8 miles - it was stored outside at -10 to -15C for nearly 2 month before delivery. What could have happend to the battery . When I used TM Spy the info I got was: Pack 96.9 Remain 56.7kWh , 366.32V 1.0A SOC 58.5% battery cells min 3.811 avg 3.816 max 3.821 (10mV)
I suspect what TM-Spy is telling you is that you have 96.9kwh available capacity. The available capacity is always lower than the total capacity to ensure sufficient power is available and degradation is not excessive. See the below as a quote from the Electrek.co source mentioned in the description: "Hughes says that the BMS indicates 98.4 kWh of usable capacity plus a 4 kWh buffer for a total of 102.4 kWh"
Checked with the programmer at it`s total 96.9 and after 4kWh in buffer it only has 92.9 usable. So it’s a 92.9D, seems it been standing a long time on just the buffer. Still No word on when i can take delivery it still stands in the basement of Drammen SC in Norway, just GPS ping it. Even though the SC said on april 9th that it had been delivered to the repair shop to fix all the faults and was no longer at the SC🤬
If it has only done 28 miles since delivery, the BMS may not have had an opportunity to calibrate fully - I would set it to charge fully and allow it to remain plugged in for a period of time. I doubt Tesla would have let it leave the facility with a significantly degraded pack. Also, don't worry about storage outside in the cold - this is not likely to have caused any kind of significant degradation .
Just did a read out on a Friends Model X 100D it has done 3719km /2310,8 Miles. Discharge 1483 kWh Charged 1613 kWh, Nominal Full Pack 97.5kWh Usable full Pack after energy buffer 4kWh is 93.5kWh Used both TM-Spy iPhone (code helped by Jason Huges) and Scan My Tesla (android)
Thermal management is the Achilles Heel of Tesla when pushed hard. The coolant system just doesn’t have the capacity to get heat away from the cells while on the track. That being said, JB Straubel says their cell chemistry actually gets better at elevated temperatures, and tinkerers have largely confirmed this. Basically, as the cells get hotter, their resistance goes down, preventing thermal runaway. For normal drivers, the cold weather performance is probably a bigger issue. It can take a good 20 miles for the pack to heat up enough for full regen.
Great video! For the real world, Tesla’s battery cooling does the job very well indeed. They didn’t set out to build a race car, and I don’t really care at all that some people find this to be a problem when hammered really hard around a race track, not my problem, and not a problem for 99.99% of people. I’m sure if they built a dedicated race car, they could easily do an even better job on battery cooling- but why would they bother?
EV-Tech Explained - Tesla really differs in their in manufacturing philosophy. They design their big components to be as inexpensive as possible, while still maximizing performance. Just look at the Model S inverter: “traditional” automakers have used specialized, high power components and try to shoehorn them under the hood. The first generation Volt (as an example) uses a bank of Japanese (Hitachi?) IGBT packs and builds the box around them. Not only is the end result bulky, but it’s pretty proprietary. Tesla realized that inexpensive commodity IGBTs can be wired in parallel and handle just as much (or more) power. Not only that, but they get great flexibility with the form factor. So presto: a better product for less money. This whole philosophy extends to the battery pack. Tesla knows cylindrical cells have a disadvantage when it comes to thermal management, but the cost per kWh is unbeatable. Every aspect of their pack is designed to reduce costs while maintaining performance and durability. This relentless refinement of chemistry, form factor, etc. is why only Tesla can maintain consistently positive margins on their EVs. The other automakers don’t even want to be in the battery business, but Tesla knows you have to grab the wheel and get your hands dirty in order to control costs. Those thousands of design and manufacturing decisions make the difference between success and failure.
Elon doesn't seem to want to use patents for "protection" from competition. So, it seems, corporate secrets such as chemistry, automation of PACK assembly, inverters/controllers and "cars computer" (was that part of the reason to shift from Nvidia AND not go with Bosch or one of the other suppliers?) Also Tesla not afraid to make the build/buy decisions and hence we see Tesla making their own seats (anyone else do that??) It will be interesting see to IF capacitors might find a way ti supplement the battery pack performance (even to improve braking re-gen. I have no idea IF these are worth while pursuits, but I suspect Tesla will investigate.
@@brandoYT Capacitors are quickly charged. Finding a technology first to quickly charge batteries would be Ideal. Having 150KW in a car is doable now. Charging takes too long. Hybrid battery shows promise.
Elon recently said that the biggest mistake in the model 3 production line was getting away from their core competency, the li-ion battery pack. I think Tesla needs to run with their battery technology advantage to make up for their inexperience in the auto industry. I doubt they will lose this advantage anytime soon, as Tesla is the only auto manufacturer to also create battery storage for residential and grid scale applications. Even if other manufacturers improve their battery technology to be comparable with Tesla, their scale of production, accessibility to resources, and ability to innovate will still be far behind.
He indeed said they became complacent with their core technologies (which could also explain the... fiirings/departures of veterans who developed these in the first place). There are speculations though on the future of battery packs technology: Panasonic provides now the highest energy density in a form of cells but it is hard to put them together quickly, cheaply and with manufacturing ease. Prismatic and pouch cell formats has also serious advantages and battery manufacturers are catching up on Panasonic performances. I'm not sure which format will win in the end but one thing is clear from history of technological developments: standardization is essential to cut cost, time and complexity on the whole process, from manufacture to service and end of life.
etbadaboum hopefully these technologies move down into smaller scale devices like phones and computers, which could aid in cooling devices without the need for fan cooling in laptops and tablets so essentially a miniature but highly efficient extraction radiator (with the aid of a high spin, low turbulence fan can push out maximum heat with minimal draw on power supply as well as noise level.)
ninjakille316 Tesla doesn't do shit to improve battery technology, they just pack battery cells (from Panasonic LG etc) into nice iPhone-esc design to wow ignorant fanboys ... There is no advantage they have (except maybe the supercharger network) .. the only reason we don't yet have Tesla competitors (exept the I pace) is because batteries are still too expensive (just imagine how much an S class would cost) The are bigger and better solar panels/battery companies and nobody gives a shit because hipsters only care about hype.
tesla will be better at batteries for a VERY long time compared to other conventional automotive manufactures. They just want to cut costs with those darn prismatic cells....
good but the max out the pack is wrong as shown in other videos with a model x towing at max capacity, uphill, was i think in the nine hundreds, if memory serves me wrong or correct, thats still what i remeber lol. but i get what your saying.
Thanks for very video's I'm the Team Manager for SPV Racing the first team to receive the Tesla Model S P100D for racing in the Electric Production Car Series (EPCS) I have a few questions on the cooling side, could I contact you directly on that . Thanks
Great question. The water/glycol coolant itself conducts electricity, therefore full submersion would result in a short circuit between cells. This can be done with a non-electrically conductive fluid but those fluids have their own issues!
additional weight (more coolant needed to flood the battery pack) , wire-bond fuses not working anymore, complex sealing, higher probability of leakage...
Congratulations for the excellent video. My name is Claudio, and I'm from Brazil. Would you allow me to translate to portuguese your video in my channel? The credits will still be yours and I will set this clear from the very beginning.
