Tesla's Quest for Better Batteries 

Are we going get a video about ultra capacitors?

@@nathanracher2911 This video is about ultracapacitors.....

make a video about foldable phones

Never mind then.

@@nathanracher2911 My titles tend to not be too SEO friendly to be fair!

Thanks for your insightful comment ! That can have really big implications on geo-politics and environmental impact.

Didn't know that, and I spent a week researching this video. That's a big deal. Lithium is relatively easy to get compared to cobalt

@Sandcastle • Well, it becomes an irrelevant argument if the batteries don't need any Cobalt!

@@RealEngineering The most authentic source I could find is Maxwell Technology's 21st Annual Needham Growth Conference. There is a brief description of their technology as: "No Solvents, Next Gen Materials, Cobalt-Free, Solid State".

@@RealEngineering And not to forget that lithium is a minority component of Li-Ion batteries. There's 63kg of Lithium in a Tesla 70kWh battery pack (weighing 543kg in total).

I'm not an electrical engineer and I spotted at least 3 errors related to electrical topics.

Watching this video again made me realize there's gonna be fierce competition with who has best EV battery with all factors involved. I think this will be especially paramount with the new taxi eVTOL's coming out with companies like Joby, Archer Aviation & Lilium to name a few.

Every once in awhile, I have to remind myself that no matter how polished and well presented the information is; it is sometimes wrong completely, and often wrong in part.

Or maybe they're just looking deeper into the future?

he isn't right either, since tesla never said it'll use ultracapacitors in vehicles

Serge Pavlovsky : I believe Elon has alluded to the use of Ultra Capacitors for acceleration and regeneration, where supercapacitors can handle the short-term high energy density requirements. I’ll stand to be corrected, since my 75-year old memory “ain’t what it used to be” 😀

@@dewiz9596 batteries have no issues handling short-term, they are throttled long-term

Monetized "experts"

hmmm not really all there are INDEPENDENTS

It's true, Look at all these short form 15 minute videos, 5 of those minutes are allocated for their sponsors, who all tell you "The first 200 to sign up...." I call them long form commercials.

Nico Capannelli if it wasn’t medium sized sponsors with no stake in the videos topic then its better than being owned by the big corporations who control swaths of the industry and profit from misinformation. That or he’d have to put mid-roll adds all over the place and increase video production which would lower quality and he’d have less free time. Ultimately it’s the better of 3 evils

@@kimokla3874 imumm

Yeah, which force tho?

@@orvvro newton's force

i think it's because brilliant.org is a great product

I subbed around 200k, I think. I've watched this improvement over time; great work, RE.

I disagree with regard to the visualisations of things. I'm not talking about quality of animation, but about what's shown, while the script is read. In this video: pretty footage of cars, while he talked about things happening on the molecular level. What? I've hoped that both Real Engineering and Wendover Productions would get better at this since pretty much the beginning of their channels, but haven't found it to be the case. Comparison of amounts for example, would massively benefit from improvement. "Mice weigh this much, and cows weigh X times more!" - Show. Don't tell. Show 2 boxes, where one is X times as large as the other.

Of course! No wonder mine doesn't work!

We should start a petition to change Aluminum's symbol from Al to Ai so that we can say RE didn't make a mistake.

Adobe Illustrator oxyde

I dont know why it bothers me so much but I couldn't listen to the video the whole time it was on screen! LoL

In the same scene, the anode and cathode are labelled with the incorrect polarities as well; I think they must have been a little tired when animating that segment!

Umm, sounds great for my railgun project

No. They are like caches. Batteries are like RAM sticks.

ram sticks in an EV are like supercapacitors

meon email to be specific, they couldn’t be either cache nor RAM, as both immediately lose information when powered off, they can’t store anything. The best comparison I can think of is the batteries are SSDs and supercapitors are Optane memory

So does that mean supercapacitors are just springs?

Good catch, Extremely bad driving, Lol

I laughed at that as well. You are working on a public ad but you don't manage do get around a corner...

i guess it was the autopilot driving lol

The war has just begun

Came to point this out as well. well done.

lotta variables out there, once you start looking.

its cooled battery chemistry innnit

Since you find this interesting: All of those factors don't only affect a cars battery, but the batteries in all your mobile devices as well (obviously). Thinking about how you use/charge those batteries in your daily life can make their lifes longer, e.g. letting you use your laptop/smartphone longer with a healthy batterie. The Tesla does this by itself, but your phone only does it limited.

Yeaaaaaaah, about that. The clauses for companies to use them make it basically unusable by any of their actual competitors. Still an admirable move, but not near as altruistic as it may seem

Real Engineering Are you referring to the part which essentially requires them to do the same thing with their EV patents?

Real Engineering oh, my bad then

Not to mention patents have to be incredibly specific. To the point where most patents are useless, make a single tiny change and the patent no longer applies.

Thanks for showing how clueless this person is

Not as good as Elon Musk hosting meme review

But, they are Panasonic batteries. Panasonic makes them (final assembly only) in the Tesla gigafactory, Tesla just provides some of your tax money to help fund them. BTW, have you ever seen or heard Tesla or Musk say how much better these cars are for the environment? Isn't the main selling point? It must be tough to calculate, especially since gasoline cars are 99% cleaner than when at their worst in the 60's (you can look that up too, not a secret).

They are cars

@@coffeehawk electric cars are everything included already cleaner than gasoline cars. What is more important that they are an advancment towards a green future; somthing that would be not possible with gasoline cars

@@G.Giorgio But they're not cleaner anymore, that's the point. Deep down you know that because you have NEVER read or heard Tesla or Musk say how clean they are, and isn't that the main selling point for them as you yourself just said? Not a troll, try to find it. All the money and energy spent on new factories, etc. should have gone to C02 removal and planting trees, if you believe that human made C02 is an issue. You want to be nice to the earth, buy a USED VW diesel. 50 mpg highway (double the national average).

tesla is using maxwell dry cell technology, these are more advance then what you offered.

LMAO I imagine it's even better here since the ultracapacitor energy can be slowly renewed by the batteries themselves, so you could probably boost after reaching any straight (on a non drag race that is). Like having a finite but self rechargable reserve of N2O taking from the fuel tank somehow.

What day race fans, Saturday! Fire breathing capacitors thundering down the track! Saturday! Saturday! Saturday!

Drag racers using lead-acid batteries might be a good solution

Capacitors could be great for drag racing. You're only going a quarter mile, so energy density isn't important. If you actually want to drive your vehicle anywhere, they won't store anywhere near enough energy for their size and weight. That's why Tesla (and others) use lithium ion batteries exclusively. I shouldn't have to say this, but the people doing this are not stupid.

@@bobby1970 I'm not going to be the one complaining about fuel shortages. As much as I love classic muscle cars, if you haven't at least done an engine swap, you're just wasting fuel in a subpar piece of steel to produce sad amounts of horsepower. If you've got a block smaller than 350cu, my Volvo can beat your ass through a combination of better aero and 5-cylinder power. Embrace the future, kiddo. Convert to electric, and your motors will have so much more torque in them.

Thank you Tubmaster 5000, very cool

Don't you think that's stretching things a bit? :-)

Tubmaster, don’t get caught in the loop. We must band together and be flexible and pull the trigger sooner than later.

I power my car with hampster wheels. It does give off methane but it only costs a piece of bread each day. And they do die if you don't water them.

Heard of the book "the windup girl?" Algae based rubber band tech is the future 😜

Glad I wasn't the only one to notice

I think in an electrolytic cell the anode is actually positive while the cathode is negative

@MaciekBroken If you want to be entirely correct the negative electrode is the anode when discharging since a oxidation takes place there (Li->Li+ + e-). When charging the negative electrode is the cathode since a reduction takes place there (Li+ + e- -> Li). For the pos. electrode it's the other way around. But usually the neg. electrode (graphite) is referred as the anode and pos. as cathode (metal oxide) since it's in discharging direction.

In one definition, yes. But I think he said it wrong as the cathode is usually positive.

Exactly! The anode is the positive part of the cell. Very basic error, if you ask me..

Use the saltwater to propel your ⛵ boat by building a saltwater battrey you have a endless supply of saltwater with ions to use just think about it man!

Hey, just added it to the list of references. Not sure why that link wasn't already in there! We normally have onscreen reference numbers too, but they got left out in the rush to meet our deadline. Thanks for the great work! Some of the best tech writing on the web.

Cheers - and keep up the great work with this channel. Solid fact-based perspectives are valuable and will ultimately separate the wheat from the chaff. More power to you.

​@@maximilianholland Nobody does anything without making sure they get some internet karma these days huh...

@@IHateGoogle6969 -- crediting people's work isn't about internet karma, it's about citing sources so you can verify facts, and it's about people's work being recognized which helps their career & future employment / $.

@@IHateGoogle6969 did you read their back and forth, cordial, unlike yourself, who isn't even in the loop.

Done.

Thanks, i was questioning myself.

What do you mean? Cathode is the positive electrode and anode is the negative one (cations are positive ions and anions are negative).

@@samovarmaker9673 anions move to the anode ( chlorine ions to anode ) and cations move to cathode ( sodium ions to cathode ).

@@samovarmaker9673 isnt it the opposite way

Negative and positive, unfortunately, have the complete opposite meanings in the context of chemistry than they do in the context of electricity. See here: www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-1/conventional-versus-electron-flow/

Still running, but lost the vocal audio channel.

You can do it!

Are you sure? I don't understand the merger process, but I thought the board has already approved that, judging from: _The Merger Agreement and the consummation of the Offer, merger and other transactions contemplated in the Merger Agreement have been unanimously approved by Maxwell's board of directors, all of whom recommend to the Company's stockholders that they accept the Offer and tender their Maxwell shares pursuant to the Offer._ Source: investors.maxwell.com/investors/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2019/Maxwell-Technologies-Announces-Definitive-Merger-Agreement-with-Tesla-Inc/default.aspx

Dumbass. It's the regulators that have to approve. The board already did before the announcement.

@Jan van Coppenhagen thank you for the correction, I've edited the post to reflect the shareholder lawsuit

@@charlech Hilarious that you are both rude and incorrect. What an ass.

For anyone interested in the Mergers & Acquisition process, the Board of company A decides its in their company's best interests to merge with or acquire company B. They do their due diligence, scouring publicly available information about the other company and crunching numbers to see if their hunch holds up. If it does and its not a hostile take-over they send their offer to the Board of company B. They are duty-bound to study it. Why? Because they are legally bound to act in the best interests of their company's stakeholders and especially their shareholders. So the company could be doing great, just like you could be really happy with your house, but if someone offers you 10X its market price you have to consider it, talk to your partner, think about your kids. Company B's Board has to study the offer and then tell its shareholders about it along with their recommendation to accept or decline. Let's say the shareholders accept, both boards still have a little more work to do. Now they agree to share more data with each other, things that may not have been in the public domain and they confirm the deal is still good and there are no nasty surprises. When everyone is on board, this is when it goes to regulators who's job it is to consider the public interest. Either they give their blessings, suggest amendments or deny permission.

Edited... Oh, the irony.

Do a search for diy powerwall on youtube. Seen people build for as little as 300 usd per kw/h with new but surplus cells. There are companies that only deal in surplus new cells and fully tested used cells and sell for a fraction of new ones.

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 300kw/h?! holy fudge, HOLY FUDGE! Thanks man I appreciate it.

@@zereimu yeah, that 300 per kw/h was an extreme example done by very dedicated and creative people though. I do not want you to get to excited and be disapointed :). But it can still be done a lot cheaper then the commercial solutions out there currently without to much hassle and with of the shelf parts. Even at 500 or 600 dollar per kw/h it is still a lot cheaper then commercial solutions and that is certainly doable if you shop around. Ahh well, maybe you are just as dedicated and creative and you are able to beat those guys. It is kinda a competition going on to be the one who finds the cheapest solution. If you enjoy that stuff as well and have the time i am sure you can do it even cheaper! Prices are constantly coming down on all this stuff.

that's a Wendover Production video

Yeah, tha'ts the whole point of getting better batteries, Captian Obvious

JRPG Guy 2 Their plan was to actually make slower charging, lower capacity batteries

@@GThenameisleo lol

Thanks to nano tecnology capacitors they will

JRPG Guy 2 there is Check out the tesla youtube channel You will see their new charging speed

Iron man could help them

Hey, just ask Iron Man, (Oh wait, he's not real, is he?)

@@jackfenn7524 Ask Elon.... :)

I always thought "Elon Musk" was a perfume!

Yeah we just need to kidnap Elon and put him in a cave With a box of scraps

Yeah I donno the part about the Solvent vs Dry Coating was understandable. Burning off solvent is toxic for the environment. A Dry coat eliminates all that and gives better performance however that works. The next model Y will probably have that technology.

Li-Ion Batteries: Hard Drive Ultra Capacitors: RAM

James Nguyen degradation of supercaps extremely low.....million cycles with supercaps, as opposed to a few thousands with lithium. They will help extend the life of the lithium batteries, giving them an easier life, less strain.

Actually, looking at the underlying technology, Ram is pretty much just a grid of capacitors, where nand flash is a chemical reaction very similar to a battery, this comparison makes much more sense. SSD = chemical batteries RAM = capacitors

phd my ass

So as a PhD did you not notice how the narrator gets the battery annode and cathode + & - backwards? Rookie error.

@@DiscoFang of course I have noticed but state the overall quality of the video was the main object of my comment

@@gewizz2 sorry?

Rayard91 The video has quite a few distortions to suit their storyline. The graph scale & extrapolation is a classic technique. A significant one, that isn't on the technical side though, is that the Maxell sale hasn't actually been approved. Tesla doesn't own them.

Whoops, came back from a long road trip and didn't catch the timeframe. Doesn't change my comment, though.

And much lower energy density.

Yeah. Might be more ideal for utility solar.

@@allusernamesistaken but still you would only need 50 of the 40 amp LTO cells to give you a 50kw battery. That could easily fit in an EV.

Cost?

@@Ou8y2k2 in bulk, consumers can buy them at about $250 per kilowatt from third parties on alibaba. If you got them direct from Yinlong, the manufacturer, could be cheaper?

the batteries in a xbox controller are far different from the 2170 cells in a tesla.

Boomer

No, caches are like a capacitor for memory!

@@clochard4074 MY BRAIN HURTS!

It reinforced something I already knew: Stick with a conventional vehicle.

"The best books are those that tell you what you know already" -George Orwell

Tesla toaster XDD

Or 50? Not sure if the 50 is slightly above the time axis or at the same level. Gotta check the source for this one anyway, seems blurry.

The really fun part should start after that, when they start paying you to take them away...

haha Someone else noticed. 2027 though going by the BS Y scale on the graph. It's one of the traits of how to spot a snake-oil salesman. Extrapolation of any data is BS. Creating a graph scale to make extrapolation appear linear is even worse.

Mr Fusion uses Garbage .

@@DiscoFang It's a logarithmic scale which is intentionally used to display data that behaves in a logarithmic manner in a linear way. This is quite common in engineering and science. It will also never be exactly zero when extrapolated, only infinitesimal small. There is no zero on the vertical axis. Off course, extrapolations are only meaningful for small ranges.

I fully agree everyone should have electric vehicles. But there are problems currently, it would defeat the whole purpose of buying electric vehicles if the fuel source, (electricity) came from fossil fuels. If the world was powered by nuclear or renewable energy, then that would greatly minimized greenhouse gas produced by transportation.

@@GamingWithNikolas blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner

"If it weren't for the price, everybody would own a ________" is true for pretty much anything you can put in the blank.

Not everybody, but they would probably take nearly all of the Civic/Camry/Focus/Golf market. If they get down to 20k or under that could very well become reality.

@@GamingWithNikolas Not entirely - it takes less fossil fuel to be burnt per km for an EV over an ICE vehicle, so while not perfect there is still some benefit.

very cool

10 seconds #notificationsquad

Then also I like the dive into the engineering side of things. I can only speculate at Nissan's engineering development and testing program, but the fact they did not test over a range of temperatures is a fairly understandable mistake that seems incredibly obvious in hindsight. Its even possible individuals in the organization suspected temperature might have some impact, but the organization as a whole was not capable of foreseeing this or committing the necessary resources. Try setting up a test lab, then have some one tell you need to move all the equipment into a climate controlled chamber (which may or may not exist or be available to the group), while working under your typical deadlines and resource constraints. Something tells me the EV group would not have top priority at company primarily dedicated to ICE vehicles, unlike Tesla, whose entire product line is EV. However like I said, this is speculation at most, who knows what how the actual story went..

electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

Well they still have hits and misses, IF none of the cells in your pack goes out early then you have the possibility of 20 years plus, but a good deal of them had to be exchanged under warranty because in the giant mass of cells they make some of them will underperform and fail long before their full span.

Teslas doesn't make batteries they buy them . Tesla didn't invent the battery.

@@zoultronzoultron9723 it doesn't matter where they came from, at this point they're the best

@@bob15479 that doesn't even make since. You can go to lowes or home depot and buy a lithium battery

He's Irish it's their way of putting it,anyway try to be positive, not negative, pun intended

This has nothing to do with Nikola Tesla.

They are single use

SSD's are more or less a large grid of tiny batteries while ram is more or less a large grid of tiny capacitors. So a more apt comparison would be; Batteries are like SSDs and Capacitors are like RAM

Me too, bro, me too

Both are energy density. Specifically, it's called gravimetric energy density (based on weight) The other one is volumetric energy density, which is based on volume (duh).

I know. The terms have just become interchangeable in layman language. Energy density is just a better term to get the point across. Specific energy is just not immediately understandable for a lot of people

@@Asu01 just look up, apparently both words are the correct term.

@@JamecBond **you're*

@@JamecBond no, it's "you're" short for "you are" used for your sentence: "you are not right". "your not right" is meaningless.

Fuc* musk hope his ego gets him to go to jump to mars

@@juster2432 Why would you not like someone who is using their money to try and improve the world? Would you prefer he blows all his money on hookers and cocaine?

@@IHateGoogle6969 he is a corporate person now ask the people at the show rooms he let go or the water suppliers he ruined in other countries and using child labor for cobalt. He took tax payers money to be what he is so all you dumb fuck@ nees to take your idolatry of him down some

I'll claim minute then