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Tested: Where Does The Sustain Come From In An Electric Guitar? 

Jim Lill
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Marching forward with the electric guitar experiments.
0:00 - What is good sustain?
0:52 - Amp feedback
1:40 - How long should a note be able to ring?
2:42 - Quality of sustain
3:24 - The spreadsheet
4:23 - The amp's role
5:07 - Testing break angle
6:11 - Testing saddle material
7:14 - Testing string tension
8:01 - Testing absence of neck pickup
8:42 - Testing resonant mass
9:50 - Testing the finish
12:18 - But what makes an obvious difference?
14:00 - Outro jam
Tests were done plugging the guitar directly into the computer for a clean signal (except the amp feedback test and neck pickup test).
jimlillmusic.com/sustain for the spreadsheet.
My website is JimLillMusic.com.
I'm @jimlill on instagram.
____
It's really cool to see people enjoying the tone tests video I put out 2 weeks ago.
Sustain wasn't on my mind when I was making it, but there were some people in the comments talking about sustain so I thought I'd spend some time figuring out where it comes from.
It was fun coming up with the tests, trying to find limits and do everything I can to stop the guitar from being able to hold a note. Hopefully people who watch this video will have a better idea of which things play a role in sustain, and how big that role is.
Also, I bought 2 of J.T. Corenflos' cabs on Saturday and the background music for this video is the first thing I've used either of them on.
-Jim, 2/7/22

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16 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 2,8 тыс.   
@JamesVanderVeen
@JamesVanderVeen 2 года назад
This was a good video on sustain. It could have been longer though.
@Sean_Plays_Guitar
@Sean_Plays_Guitar 2 года назад
you cheeky bahstahd lol!
@MidlifeRenaissanceMan
@MidlifeRenaissanceMan 2 года назад
Yes. Don’t want to dampen the enthusiasm
@KeizerSinbad
@KeizerSinbad 2 года назад
🙈
@jonnysophisticado
@jonnysophisticado 2 года назад
Hah, or should I say, haaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.........
@misterknightowlandco
@misterknightowlandco 2 года назад
Bwaahahahahahahhaa good one!
@MetalMan1245
@MetalMan1245 Год назад
This guy's dry humor combined with total willingness to shatter most guitar players' concensuses without even saying a word about it is amazing.
@JoshGab-cw3zn
@JoshGab-cw3zn Год назад
This video triggers the tonewood boomers in the comments lol!
@Fausto_4841
@Fausto_4841 Год назад
i like that he doesn't outwardly put his interpretation of the data into the video. music is so subjective it's hard to say what is better in a lot of situations.
@jafersorianocamargo6723
@jafersorianocamargo6723 14 дней назад
I think the point is that they're not even consensus, right there they're done that think that light finish is better and others that say the exact opposite... Lighter gauges and actions are more determinative in conjunction with good left hands technique but maybe aside the "it's in the fingers" crowd, nobody cares so passionately about gauge and action... We all do, because we need them to pay comfortably, but nobody is so passionate about it as the flight between a vintage SG or the latest fluence...
@paulcrowder
@paulcrowder 11 дней назад
“…so I did that” 😂 I agree, the humor is as important as the information in these videos.
@JustinSmith1287
@JustinSmith1287 Год назад
"... so I did that" had me rolling. WOW DUDE. The commitment to these tests are just insane.
@victorb656
@victorb656 Год назад
My favorite moments. “That means 3,837 different setups. So I did that.”
@tanglewife
@tanglewife Год назад
Seems like a lot of these myths about tone and sustain relate to acoustic guitar, but don't really carry over to electric in reality, yet have been perpetuated for decades in the musical community. Brilliant, enlightening video, as always!
@errollloyd6721
@errollloyd6721 Год назад
Yes ... this is it ... electrical guitarists have yet to truly embrace the electrical nature of their instrument, even going so far as applying acoustic thinking to electrical components in thinking larger components (eg capacitors) are better than modern smaller ones etc. It's a little sad I think because I think it has kept the industry back and made us all more beholden to the guitar manufacturers as the culture helps perpetuate an illusory magic in any one guitar when really it's mostly about pickups and whether the guitar feels good in your own hands. It should be more normal to get a guitar based just on build quality, shape and neck profile and to then install whatever pickups you like, and, even better, have common guitar designs that allow you to easily change the pickups.
@williambartholomew5680
@williambartholomew5680 Год назад
​@@errollloyd6721 perfect realization of how one product for life (guitar in this instance) results in the manufacturer not making additional sales off buyers. The only way to ensure sales is to either A "improve upon inferiority" or B offer an "alternative" features list or whole product. Ironically guitarists be big suckers to the corporate man they supposedly despise 😅
@nef36
@nef36 Год назад
@@williambartholomew5680 Guitar culture could be a bit more open to the idea of owning, say, a bass, baritone, standard, and a ukelele, or putting value on the cosmetic look of a guitar (we already do that) above what the acoustic qualities of the instrument are, but the first thing requires learning, which is why guitarists don't like the idea of picking up a bass (and vice versa) and the second thing is rooted in hundreds of years of culture and things that are true of acoustics. On the other hand, upgrading your guitar for better pickups is something we already do, so there's that.
@Carlito_Sway
@Carlito_Sway Год назад
this is a HUGE part of the source of even well-intentioned guitar industry BS!!! I think there is a lot of conflation of "sound" with "player experience", too. We might perceive that a guitar "resonates" more based on its vibrational characteristics, while in fact there's no audibly perceptible difference to a listener. That doesn't mean we should disregard player experience as an important factor influencing design characteristics- something like neck radius might not influence the sound but it sure feels different to a player! But, it is important to disambiguate the two if we're trying to understand the mechanisms of electric guitar sound generation and reproduction in a scientific way.
@adamb2484
@adamb2484 11 месяцев назад
That's the thing! Most, if not all, guitar myths DO apply to an acoustic. Yet next to none have any bearing on an electric, becoming pseudoscience in the process.
@SashaGarcia
@SashaGarcia 2 года назад
This is like "Mythbusters" for guitar, and I am loving it.
@blazer6248
@blazer6248 2 года назад
No it isn't 🤣 this dude doesn't even know the basics about guitars. He ain't in ANY position to be tryi g to teach or prove anything to anyone until he learns quite a bit more. He doesn't even know basic information that I knew before I even owned a guitar.
@foxredt2
@foxredt2 2 года назад
@@blazer6248 troll
@TheEchelon
@TheEchelon 2 года назад
@@foxredt2 Nope, it's a good effort but his doesn't aren't really accurate nor representative.
@richsackett3423
@richsackett3423 2 года назад
This video is crap which only vaguely resembles science. His over-earnest chip-on-the-shoulder attitude ain't making up for its serious shortcomings.
@iforce2d
@iforce2d 2 года назад
@@richsackett3423 what are the shortcomings, exactly?
@stevesoldwedel
@stevesoldwedel 2 года назад
It's really a pleasure to see an empirical approach to what so many people treat like magic.
@jralanmorgan
@jralanmorgan 2 года назад
I love your phrasing.
@chnacr2
@chnacr2 2 года назад
If not for the Internet and awesome RU-vidrs like Jim, guitar manufacturers would be selling Tone Air in cans by now
@slowestjabroni
@slowestjabroni 2 года назад
Gearslutz is in shambles right now.
@disco4535
@disco4535 2 года назад
Its hilarious seeing comments like these that act like this video "empirically" proves/disproves anything significant. World renowned players that have created worthwhile, unique musical art throughout human history believe things about their guitars and music that you might call think they treat as "magic", that's only because our primitive science can't explain it, or does a comically insufficient job of trying.
@Centrifuge28
@Centrifuge28 2 года назад
@@disco4535 you're right, that's why we need to only buy $5,000 guitars so that we can have T O A N maybe things like the type of wood or the way the neck is attached to the body make a difference in music, but an artist can make art with anything. that's what the comment you replied to is saying. the artist makes it sound good, not the density of the finish or how much money you dropped on your new guitar. also, it's helping people not get sucked into the thought process of "i need to buy this ridiculously expensive piece of wood with magnets and strings to be as good as my heroes"... and as someone who has built their own guitar, i can tell you that many people actually do believe it is magic...
@SirSneakerPimp
@SirSneakerPimp 2 года назад
The fact that you put yourself through all of these tests is insane.
@chocolatecookie8571
@chocolatecookie8571 Год назад
He sacrified himself in the name of guitar science 😂
@muratsanda7246
@muratsanda7246 Год назад
@@chocolatecookie8571 😁
@Michael-yt1jp
@Michael-yt1jp Год назад
The fact that 69 percent of guitar players who watch this and will still choose believe in magic sustain and mystical diodes is insane.
@hansmemling2311
@hansmemling2311 6 месяцев назад
@Michael-yt1jp indeed. I unfortunately people are religious about most of the things they do. Science has transformed our society completely but religiousness remains.
@tykjpelk
@tykjpelk 2 года назад
As a physicist, I find it interesting that the sustain was better with lower tension - with open strings. When the tension is lower the frequency is lower, and that means the string goes through fewer resonance periods in the same time. The Q (quality) factor is an important parameter for a resonator, and it tells you the fraction of power lost in a single period. If the Q factor stays the same but the period increases, you have more sustain.
@hansmemling2311
@hansmemling2311 6 месяцев назад
I would love it if physicists and scientists started dong tests on instruments. I bet lots of myths or misconceptions could be destroyed.
@AlCleveland
@AlCleveland 5 месяцев назад
What about the composition and/or quality of the string itself? Can an isolated string in a “dead”acoustic environment exhibit self generated sustain?
@tykjpelk
@tykjpelk 5 месяцев назад
@@AlCleveland Well, a string that has a lot of "friction" if you will call it that, i.e. loses vibration every to heating, will have worse sustain even attached to a diamond guitar in a vacuum or something silly like that. We can imagine a string made from one long crystal played near absolute zero, but of course it wouldn't be very practical. The tuning forks in quartz watches are nice though.
@kentl7228
@kentl7228 4 месяца назад
Too light or too tight a tension would be detrimental to keep the string in motion for longer?
@user-bl3si3kq6x
@user-bl3si3kq6x 13 дней назад
Wouldn't the string with higher tension(more mass at same tuning) have a harder time moving? Seems like basic physics.
@gavinjones3637
@gavinjones3637 2 года назад
"So I did that!" Hats off for thoroughness and commitment. Love these videos.
@PS-fg3hp
@PS-fg3hp 2 года назад
Yeah, almost spit my coffee on my screen!
@joevannucci1392
@joevannucci1392 2 года назад
@@PS-fg3hp Same here!
@kcutoob
@kcutoob 2 года назад
Hah! I also was waiting for the "So, I had to find a plan B". Man, this guy is dedicated. And while it appears he's not a technical guy ("never took a stats class"), these experiments are quite well conceived and implemented, which is not as easy as many would think. I especially liked the wooden dowel saddle - that eliminated any nuances of different alloys in one fell swoop. Well done!
@JoelKreider
@JoelKreider 2 года назад
This is the point that got my like… Never did I think that would be the next statement.
@blueleaftuber
@blueleaftuber 2 года назад
what a Chad
@misterknightowlandco
@misterknightowlandco 2 года назад
This is going to turn into a series called “everything you know about guitar is wrong” and we’ll all be playing the Jim Lill signature squier bullet telecaster with Seymour Duncan pickups that only costs 249.99…
@psyghtseer
@psyghtseer 2 года назад
lol
@DigiPal
@DigiPal 2 года назад
Makes me think of JHS pedal channel with a video talking about solid state amps and how "bad sounding" they are/were, but the video ironically shows how well sounding they can be, despite their supposed "bad reputation".
@cfiyuhbv8rfbebuvrbty
@cfiyuhbv8rfbebuvrbty 2 года назад
this is exactly what we should be doing. If Max Ostro plays Squier, it should be enough for us, too. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DFAdNbtimGQ.html
@bassyey
@bassyey 2 года назад
@@DigiPal Oh I thought that channel are tube snobs and zealots.
@drewdavis2392
@drewdavis2392 2 года назад
I'm holding out for the channel to promote with a guitar giveaway. Imagine owning your own Jim Lill Signature chopper Strat with custom finish that uses Jim's secret formula for improved tone and sustain.
@hybro8
@hybro8 Год назад
I fucking love this guy man. I can hear the cork sniffers sharpening their pitchforks.
@ralph0808z
@ralph0808z 4 месяца назад
I'm convinced. I'll never soak my guitar in glue again. Kudos to Jim Lill and his "Tested" video series for creating the most interesting guitar content on RU-vid.
@keegancurry2593
@keegancurry2593 2 года назад
The combination of these 2 videos really makes me think that practically the only things that truly matter to a great sounding guitar are a good pickup and a good setup. And a great player of course!
@liamphillips3061
@liamphillips3061 2 года назад
Speakers as well, They all do put a unique twist on your sound. Glenn at SMG did a great video about it called what matters most about guitar tone. I really love seeing people get to the bottom of what matters in regards to tone and well made guitars , There is way too much made up stuff floating around.
@Fedbo
@Fedbo 2 года назад
the thing is, a cheap and not very well constructed guitar (bad mechanics, poor maintenance of the tuning, bad ergonomics (neck not well finished, frets coming out) might sound great with a set up and some expensive pickups, but if it doesn't hold the tuning well and doesn't feel great to play than it's not fullfilling its purpouse.
@latheofheaven1017
@latheofheaven1017 2 года назад
@@Fedbo Indeed. More expensive guitars do some things better. But this video shows that better sustain isn't necessarily one of them.
@stupidjubei
@stupidjubei 2 года назад
Changing amp/speakers has long been the most drastic tonal quality changer. I've long believed a cheap (yet adequately built) guitar with a good setup and a decent pup into a nice rig will get you much further than a $3000 dollar custom guitar into a cheap practice amp. There are good practice amps these days, but comparatively speaking.
@Pantalooj
@Pantalooj 2 года назад
The science seems fairly clear relating to tone. I'm not discounting the other factors that affect the player though ... neck shape and feel, fret size, tuning stability (set up is part of that but not the only thing), body ergonomics ... and aesthetics. I certainly wouldn't discount all of those things when selecting a guitar.
@TheEnderBand
@TheEnderBand 2 года назад
These make me so happy because it just confirms that as long as a guitar is built properly and the pickups are ok, there’s no reason it can’t be a usable sound
@flachmann161
@flachmann161 8 месяцев назад
True. I finally stopped wasting money on "tonewood" bullshit or new fancy pickups. What really matters is the speaker
@ot4kon
@ot4kon 8 месяцев назад
@@flachmann161 nah they are really old bad pickups from the 90s and 2000s era when there was no middle ground just great expensive guitars and cheap crap, but true, mostly all the new cheap guitars and all the epi and squiers come with ok, usable Pickups.
@user-lv7ph7hs7l
@user-lv7ph7hs7l 5 месяцев назад
​@@ot4kon Yes I have pickups like that, they truly suck. It doesn't mean you need Aeymour Duncans or original PAFs you stole from Joe Bonamassa but just decently made pickups. Epiphones from the early 2000s had pretty sucky ones. Alnico Classic. I ordered some Tonerider Alnico 2 Classics, with high hopes. In demos they sound as nice as original PAFs at half the cost of name brand stuff (still a lot of money for two magnets wrapped in copper wire).
@acook213
@acook213 4 месяца назад
I love how he used his guitar as a cutting board for the wooden dowel
@robinleebraun7739
@robinleebraun7739 21 день назад
Thinking of building a guitar out of a cutting board.
@brianframe7949
@brianframe7949 9 месяцев назад
As a builder and repair person, i rate this guy as a national hero.
@andrewhertzberg6889
@andrewhertzberg6889 2 года назад
This series could be used in schools as an applied science class. So freakin’ clear and thorough. And zero time wasted.
@michaelvarney.
@michaelvarney. 2 года назад
He would flunk out of an applied science class considering that he does not seem to understand how to properly measure resonance, or at least decay constants, and thinks that ‘only a couple of dB’ is best thought of in a linear manner.
@timoheinrich8763
@timoheinrich8763 2 года назад
There is truth in what Michael says. Jim does not know how to analyze data and it shows. He's honest about it and that's good but it would have been better if he had reached out to someone to help him analyze it. (Even better: He would have also reached out for help with the data collection.)
@TheEchelon
@TheEchelon 2 года назад
@Pettynyt Ruokailija And the electronics pick up the vibrations of the string, which are influenced by the guitar... You think a guitar with a rubber nut would sound the same or have the same sustain?
@wareya
@wareya 2 года назад
@@michaelvarney. A drop in decibels over a particular fixed amount of time is just as valid a way of measuring decay as half-life.
@michaelvarney.
@michaelvarney. 2 года назад
@@wareya No, it is not. No one measures resonance in such a manner. Say at time t = 0 you measure 100 dB, then at time 10 seconds you measure 60 dB. What is the decay of the signal? What is it's half life? You can't tell. What you need to do is sample the signal amplitude at a high resolution between 0 and 10 seconds, and fit the resulting plot and that gives you the decay you are looking for. For his signal, he needs to take his waveform and create an envelope curve, and measure the decay of that, calculate tau and see how that changes. Better yet, determine the Q of the system, as that an optimal figure of merit for the system.
@UncleWalter1
@UncleWalter1 2 года назад
Interesting. Makes me think that perhaps the higher perceived sustain on a Les Paul vs a Tele might be the fact that the Les Pauls will tend to have higher output pickups, causing the amp to break up more easily.
@CarlyonProduction
@CarlyonProduction 2 года назад
This has always been at least part of the puzzle. Back before we had such a plethora of pedals, people liked using les Paul’s to drive their Marshall’s for exactly this reason.
@McSlobo
@McSlobo 2 года назад
Well, you can test this by using similar pickups. There are humbucker T-style guitars but dunno if there's an LP with T-style pickups (that would be interesting). I would guess the LP-style guitars are usually more expensive (glued on neck, carved top etc.) and therefore probably better made because why waste the extra effort (well, there are bolt-on LPs with flat top too). Might be something as simple as sloppily filed nut (why bother if it's a cheap guitar, right). I actually have a T-style guitar (RRP around $1000) with a humbucker and with simple ear test there's no difference to my LP-style guitar (RRP $2000). Fine, it has '59 while the LP has Pearly Gates and they have a bit different pots and caps. Didn't set up a DAW for this. Noo, I didn't pay the full price, both guitars were on some crazy summer sale and are awesome. I hope I could play to be worthy to them. Cheers.
@TheMaxKids
@TheMaxKids 2 года назад
The longest sustained note I’ve ever heard was in the song “Machine Gun” by Hendrix. And that was a strat with a bolt-on neck. Oh yeah, fully cooking Plexi too.
@KelticKabukiGirl
@KelticKabukiGirl 2 года назад
@@TheMaxKids I can hold a note for a couple minutes. Just get a good comp, high gain and especially an early Muff Style or Swollen Pickle and keep the note trilling slowly
@bartelvandervelden9894
@bartelvandervelden9894 2 года назад
@@KelticKabukiGirl if you keep trilling the note slowly, you're changing the pitch (slightly) and constantly adding/releasing tension, meaning you basically add new vibrations. Point of sustain is that you aren't manipulating the strings. But in a practical sense, this doesn't really matter: you got some long notes in your sleeve and that's all that matters in a musical sense
@jtobrien_
@jtobrien_ Год назад
I’m fatter after covid and my general sustain in each of my guitars is by far better… When I was less soft, things had less resonance for sure. You and your studies are incredible! Stay Awesome
@simonlinser8286
@simonlinser8286 Год назад
wait are you saying skinny people pick up more resonance from the guitar against their hip bone and ribs, meaning that if you got more fat for the guitar to rest against you will get more sustain. i think you're on to something here.
@W4TSKY
@W4TSKY Год назад
@@simonlinser8286 It honestly... makes sense
@ButterDawgDawgWitDaBudda
@ButterDawgDawgWitDaBudda Год назад
@@simonlinser8286 I will try to document this experiment when I buy my next tonehuman
@michaelsnydermusic
@michaelsnydermusic Год назад
Resonance and sustain are two different things though. Sustain of course refers to the length of time a note or sound rings out and the decay of said note. Resonance has to do with the frequency oscillation of an object along with said sound making it louder and more rich. Put your guitar (bass is even better) against a wall (unplugged to remove the speaker agitating the pickups) and it resonates like an amplifier making the sound bass heavy and rich. But your note will not last longer. Your body is essentially doing the same thing.
@AizaakThurston
@AizaakThurston 9 месяцев назад
ohh dang. I'm always trying to find an upside to being fatter since that happened to me too
@avjake
@avjake Год назад
The Edge used an Infinite Guitar, built by Michael Brook, on the album version of With or Without You, but used an EBow on tour to play the song. In case anyone was wondering.
@FredMontteiro
@FredMontteiro 9 месяцев назад
And about Slash on Estranged?
@latheofheaven1017
@latheofheaven1017 2 года назад
It's always struck me that keeping the energy of a vibrating string in the string is the best way to sustain the vibration. Taking a significant part of that energy and using it to make other things vibrate means the string doesn't have that energy any more. But then I'm just another person with a half-baked understanding of physics having an opinion. What we need is tests. Thanks Jim Lill for providing them.
@jackgreenwood1817
@jackgreenwood1817 2 года назад
I would agree with you on this 👍
@mark78750
@mark78750 2 года назад
Your point of view makes sense. When people go on about having a resonant electric guitar, they are saying that losing string energy to the guitar body is a good thing. That doesn’t make sense, especially if you are looking for good sustain. The whole thing about how if an electric guitar sounds good acoustically it will sound good plugged in is ridiculous. That’s an Eric Johnsonism that gets repeated endlessly. It’s nonsense.
@latheofheaven1017
@latheofheaven1017 2 года назад
@@mark78750 With acoustic guitars, you want to transfer that vibration into the body and for the body to resonate, because the body is doing the amplifying. But with electric guitar you don't use the body to amplify. You're using the amplifier for that!
@carlosclaptrix
@carlosclaptrix 2 года назад
I think that’s right for an electric guitar. Acoustic guitars have to transform the vibration into air movement, so that’s a completely different situation.
@joshuasox
@joshuasox 2 года назад
I literally had the same epiphany while watching the video. Seems to me the more insulated the string the more vibration it would keep. I also understand the quiet resonance test winning out. Works the same way as cold water heating faster than hot. The string warbling heavily causes it to loose it's vibration quicker than say a medium to light stroke. So while you would see a louder sound from a heavier stroke it would also suffer the most sustain loss of volume.
@joeemenaker
@joeemenaker 2 года назад
4:30 As shown here, overdrive (and distortion) are, inherently, compressors (with super-high compression ratio)
@evanmargol3408
@evanmargol3408 2 года назад
That's sort of true but not really. There are no compressors with infinitely fast attack and release times. Sure limiters try but still do not have infinitely fast release times. Only clipping and saturation do. Thus guitar amplifiers and clipping/saturation processors.
@RockerBug17
@RockerBug17 2 года назад
I appreciate all the effort you've put into testing long held, and inaccurate, beliefs in the electric guitar world. Strings, pickups, and signal processors are the most important parts of an electric guitar signal chain, period.
@laaaliiiluuu
@laaaliiiluuu 2 года назад
And I would add a correct setup of the guitar as he showed in the video (string height, condition of the bridge, nut, frets, etc.)
@matias20081
@matias20081 2 года назад
Scale length?
@CyclesAreSingularities
@CyclesAreSingularities 2 года назад
@@laaaliiiluuu yes but that's only really gonna only gonna make a difference when it's a problem. fret buzz or dead strings for example are critical errors in the condition of a guitar. a dead string can't properly produce all the harmonics and string buzz will destroy sustain and introduce a wierd buzzing sound. so yes proper setup will sound different then inproper setup but 2 different proper setups are not gonna do much
@alphagt62
@alphagt62 2 года назад
Getting your electronics right is most important, but that doesn’t mean wood and construction is not important.
@happyhell1
@happyhell1 2 года назад
@@alphagt62 - did you see the last video where the wood and construction were proven meaningless?
@pwhite102
@pwhite102 2 года назад
I love how the results are basically "play what you like, get it set up correctly, and little things makes little differences (and it's fine if you get nerdy)" That being said, I think you'd do a great job experimenting with caps, pots, pickups, and amps. Things that are less superstitious but still a bit overblown
@user-lv7ph7hs7l
@user-lv7ph7hs7l 5 месяцев назад
Well yes that's why I need 6 Les Pauls, gotta compare 50s wiring to regular and 6 kinds of PAFs! The magnet type seems to have a fair amount of influence. So an Alnico 2 vs an Alnico 4 might be a bigger difference than two decently made pickups with the same magnet. There's a few companies that make high quality pickups with less of a magic sauce premium like Iron Gear and Tonerider. I ordered some of the latter. They sound really nice and 50 bucks a piece seems fair enough for something made with the ambition to actually match the construction of an original. After that copper is copper Alnico 4 is Alnico 4. Doesn't really matter if Seymour Duncan or GFS bought from the supplier and put it together. In fact if the Toneriders do sound like they do in some demos they will sound better and closer to the original than the SD 59, which would be nice. But it's not like turning up the treble on the amp doesn't fix it but that doesn't count!!!
@pwhite102
@pwhite102 4 месяца назад
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l And I'd watch that video for sure!
@Chord_The_Seeker
@Chord_The_Seeker 2 года назад
One thing that always cracks me up about sustain is when guitarists say, “Listen to the sustain on this guitar!”, and then apply vibrato to the string the whole time. If you’re physically manipulating the string the whole time it’s going to keep producing sound. To me sustain is best tested the way you did it the first time in this video, by simply strumming the strings, and then letting them ring, and measuring the decay of the output level of the resulting sound.
@mallninja9805
@mallninja9805 2 года назад
Every guitar player knows that _tremolo_ is when you change the notes pitch!!
@nesicus
@nesicus 2 года назад
@@JeighNeither Check your sarcasm detector.
@michaelsullivan8934
@michaelsullivan8934 2 года назад
Also, the idea that sustain is such an important quality in an instrument. Some people use it interchangeably with “resonance” or “clarity”, but sustain as just the length of time a note takes to decay has never really seemed that crucial to me. How often are you going to strike a note and let it hang there for 30 seconds? Good but slots, bridge saddles, and fret-dressing should be the first priorities for pretty much any aspect of how a guitar sounds.
@bomzhiha-s-kurskogo-vokzala
@bomzhiha-s-kurskogo-vokzala 2 года назад
3 types of tremolo: 1. Fast right hand technique 2. Strat floating bridge 3. Pedal/Amp FX with repetative volume drops. Don't know why, but this is fun 😆
@FacePomagranate
@FacePomagranate 2 года назад
@@bomzhiha-s-kurskogo-vokzala There's also a 4th type which is essentially a trill between notes that are more than a step apart.
@rickthomas393
@rickthomas393 2 года назад
Jim, IMHO you are emerging as RU-vid’s premiere guitar assumptions tester, using an empirical approach. In a college philosophy Epistemology class decades ago (how do we ‘know’ things?) I learned there 4 main ways: 1) Authority (I can’t see atoms but I accept physicists work, etc.) 2) Belief. (flimsy, or no repeatable evidence but I believe it to be true, anyway.) 3) Reason. (Logic proves how I know this (if A =B & B=C, then A=C, etc.) 4) Empirical. ( I know it because it has been tested reputably, and can be repeated by anyone who puts in the equal effort.) You are part of the great Empirical tradition of science, Jim! Keep it up!!
@EthanMckennaMusic
@EthanMckennaMusic 2 года назад
You are epic. What a service to the guitar community
@mmaaxxkk5177
@mmaaxxkk5177 2 года назад
This is amazing!! keep it up, loving these videos breaking down different aspects of guitar sound!!
@good_king_guitarman1334
@good_king_guitarman1334 2 года назад
Jim you've broken the mould. You are making the best guitar videos on YT i've seen in years, congratulations on a job well done.
@dedompler
@dedompler 2 года назад
had a feeling it'd be a player turned maker
@RohannvanRensburg
@RohannvanRensburg 2 года назад
I appreciate you asking down to earth questions and especially approaching it humbly rather than smugly, which videos like this too often do.
@meriwoo7382
@meriwoo7382 Год назад
idk the last segment of what actually affects sustain was pretty smug
@JMD501
@JMD501 Год назад
​@@meriwoo7382 but at that point he already proved his theory. If you do the hard work, then you can be a little smug.
@bumpty9830
@bumpty9830 2 года назад
*Love* your methodical approach! Hope you keep doing tests like this. "I've never taken a statistics class..." I took _one_ in college, got a C. I'm no expert either. Later as a practicing engineer, when I wanted to understand the statistics to analyze experiments, specifically, I was recommended a textbook called "Statistics for Experimenters" (by Box, Hunter and Hunter) and I _highly_ recommend it. The fact that you made that spreadsheet makes it pretty clear to me that you'd appreciate the contents. The fundamental idea is to design the experiment around the data you're hoping to extract, and the book provides the (fairly minimal) math & statistics required to get the most data out of the smallest number of data points. So you either save yourself time doing the tests, or you get more data for the same effort (compared to doing an off-the-cuff experimental design). Now, the method does rely on quantifying results, which won't always be possible in an obvious way. (Exactly how similar or different, as a number, are any two tone samples, for example?) But when it is possible (e.g. how long is the sustain?), it's quite beautiful. If you're curious, but not quite curious enough to buy a textbook, you might look up "factorial design," which is one of the methods taught in the book. There's not a huge amount of RU-vid content on the subject, but this short video discusses the basic idea: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GGvuacZb-AQ.html I would also be happy to help you design an experiment to get a feel for the method.
@DanielJacksonisbiggerinside
I love textbook recommendations like this ... Except that the books always cost so much... 😆
@jamescerone
@jamescerone Год назад
He’s joking. He’s taken statistics classes
@Fausto_4841
@Fausto_4841 Год назад
"NERD!"
@colemadden5147
@colemadden5147 5 месяцев назад
Design of experiments. Took it as an engineer in school. Crazy stuff
@gravitationalconstant
@gravitationalconstant Год назад
"So I did that." Holy cow dude! Respect.
@wonicles
@wonicles 2 года назад
I still remember my first electric guitar, and I was a beginner player. It was a red Lotus strat copy, with a beginner Crate amp. I never thought it sounded very good. I could play chords and stuff, but not much else at that time. Then my friend's older brother's bands lead guitar player picked it up once. It was amazing how good the guitar sounded. How the notes rang out. That changed my perspective on instruments that day. A great player can make most anything sound good. Don't buy in to the mystery bull. Buy and use guitars that you like, and that sound good to you. Simple as that. Jim proves this whole story IMO at the end of the video, taking that glued up drilled strat copy, and making it sound good. Great work on this video, and the last.
@flouisbailey
@flouisbailey 2 года назад
Dedicated musical scientist👍
@JohannDowa
@JohannDowa 2 года назад
Exactly.. took me awhile to learn this... i started with a cheap $99 guitar given to me, I stunk on, eventually I bought a $1,000 strat and left the cheap guitar for years... one day I decided to sell that guitar for $50, and the guy that bought it, well he played it amazing when testing it out and I was like... wow it's actually a decent guitar.
@fspieler
@fspieler 2 года назад
had the same experience with my mim strat
@StreetForged
@StreetForged 2 года назад
90% of the guitars sound comes from the pickups. Most of the other differences come down to looks and playability, with expensive guitars having smoother, more playable necks that generally can tolerate lower actions better. I mainly play a Les Paul, but the string tension is lower than a lot of other guitars due to the shorter scale length, which can cause some issues with more complicated passages that employ tremolo picking. It feels like when I play my strat or Ibanez guitars, I can more easily play complex riffs, while the Les Paul feels a bit more effortless in note fretting and bluesy styles of music that aren't as technically demanding. There have been occasions where I've used friends very expensive and well set up guitars, and it instantly feels like I've gained a year of experience and everything becomes easier to play. Any guitar can sound decent, but there can also be a pretty clear contrast between them, especially comparing beginner sub 200 dollar guitars to guitars in the 500+ range. After 1000 dollars there really isn't much to gain from spending more other than frills
@SleepscapeSerenity
@SleepscapeSerenity 2 года назад
Reminds me of that scene in the Simpsons, when bart gets a new electric guitar but thinks it broken, then Otto picks it up and shreds
@LaminatorX
@LaminatorX 2 года назад
Between the lines here: String gages. Low E dramatically out sustains High E across the board, and it makes sense. More mass = More momentum, and the surface area increases at the square of radius while volume & mass increase at the cube - so increasing momentum overtakes increasing air resistance. Open question then around smaller differences. How big a difference in sustain is there between a .09 and a .11 E string? I'd also love to see a test like this comparing different string types. Bare vs wound, flat wounds, coated, etc.
@gentelmanjunkie542
@gentelmanjunkie542 2 года назад
Yay science!
@euphoricguitars8154
@euphoricguitars8154 Год назад
Another great video, and research. Well done putting this all together.
@Dang...
@Dang... Год назад
Excellent work Jim! Thank you. I'll be studying that spreadsheet for a while yet.
@TheTapeFarm
@TheTapeFarm 2 года назад
This is awesome. Thanks for showing these myths to be what they are… marketing nonsense. I have Danelectro guitars made of Masonite with pickups made by wrapping wire around a tape covered bar magnet and shoved into two halve of a lipstick case and a bridge made out of a hunk of wood…. guess what? They sound great. What an electric guitar is made of matters far less than how it’s made, and more importantly how it’s set up and ultimately played.
@Syclone0044
@Syclone0044 2 года назад
Masonite and a tape covered magnet shoved into a lipstick case 😂 I love it
@adambrown5172
@adambrown5172 Год назад
His data showed differences in all tests
@daleturner3507
@daleturner3507 2 года назад
Always love hearing the old sustain comments! I’ve got 12 guitars from different brands ranging from $50 to $1700. Never once have I said I love this guitar it just doesn’t have sustain! Great video look forward to more!
@orlock20
@orlock20 2 года назад
Because the number of songs with over 10,000 views on RU-vid that have a guitar note hold for 8+ seconds is probably zero. Even four second notes are rare. However, many players don't like sustain and palm mute their guitar.
@calansvc
@calansvc Год назад
These videos are a lot of fun, and also informative. But the subtle wit and humor is the icing on the cake. Well done.
@nickx1754
@nickx1754 2 года назад
The amount of effort you put into this video...man, you've got yourself another subscriber. Excellent work!
@TamierTheRocker
@TamierTheRocker 2 года назад
He put his own guitars through so much for science. The real research nobody was ready to do. Thank you. Now I'm sure I don't need a heavy guitar for it to sustain good
@TheMemagNeman
@TheMemagNeman 2 года назад
Actually this guy does this for quite some time. There are even videos with "tonewoods" and other tests. Quite popular as well. ru-vid.com/show-UCyaStghQb7_e51PgH8bUkzg
@tonybrijeski4912
@tonybrijeski4912 2 года назад
Jim Lill - The Electric Guitar Scientist - love it. Keep em coming. Intelligent debate supported by test data is always welcomed. Just downloaded the spreadsheet and will be looking at it. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
@andreykarayvansky9549
@andreykarayvansky9549 Год назад
Your channel is a gem! :) Thanks for putting all this together!
@Bova13
@Bova13 Год назад
YOU ARE SOOOO CRAZY!!! And I am so glad you are and are running this tests. I've learn more about tone in the couple of hours I have watching your videos, than in my 30 years as a guitar player and musician. Thanx, man!
@shepherdsmith176
@shepherdsmith176 2 года назад
I love how you take us through your entire thought process when conducting your tests. These are amazing videos and I hope you keep making them!
@toni.santiago
@toni.santiago 2 года назад
As a physicist, i would say that two major things that can affect the sound of an ELECTRIC guitar in general, including the sustain as well, have to do with how the sound is produced and captured in the first place. And these two things are the strings and the pickups. Its all about electromagnetism. All the things involved in this factors, like the string material, tension etc, and the pickup resistance, magnet type, etc, and how this signal is produced and recorded. And i agree when you said about the amp relevance. Even if you flip the tone knob in half, it can affect the sustain
@g4guitarpenrith
@g4guitarpenrith 2 года назад
He has another video exploring all of that. It's a great watch.
@valueofnothing2487
@valueofnothing2487 2 года назад
Unfortunately he isn't using a picking machine so all his observations are irrelevant.
@g4guitarpenrith
@g4guitarpenrith 2 года назад
@@valueofnothing2487 yeah, would have been even better with that
@LaminatorX
@LaminatorX 2 года назад
Not irrelevant,@@valueofnothing2487 , just variable between samples. He only shows each vartation once in the video, but he mentions taking multiple samples and averaging the results.
@anttihuovilainen1653
@anttihuovilainen1653 2 года назад
As an EE, I'll say that the pickup only has effect on sustain by either robbing the strings of energy (having it too close to the strings) and by how much it emphasizes the high frequencies that are more present in the attack transient compared to the decaying part of the note. The latter is much of the reason people think that humbuckers "sustain more", where your typical humbucker simply emphasizes the attack less. If you were to compare the volume at one second vs five seconds, the difference between single coils and humbuckers would be close to zero.
@nigeltufneljunior
@nigeltufneljunior 2 года назад
I love these tests, this video series is awesome!
@steamengine4719
@steamengine4719 2 года назад
excellent videos these 2, very clarifying to many questions
@alsilverman5084
@alsilverman5084 2 года назад
Outstanding work Jim! You can call these segments “Guitar Science”
@Dlroper95
@Dlroper95 2 года назад
The amount of work gone into this video is admirable man. Very impressive. You are a disciplined and brilliant guy.
@brianwoods5132
@brianwoods5132 2 года назад
This video alone got me to subscribe! Awesome job man!
@thatraymond
@thatraymond Год назад
So thorough, this was very interesting!
@m0nzderr1
@m0nzderr1 2 года назад
Decibels are already in a logarithmic scale, so 3db difference at 25db, at 10db or at 0db, is still the same 3db! Which is already quite a lot - it's about 50% change in the signal amplitude. Even 1db change (~20%) can be perceived by many people (I'm sure - every guitarist will be able at least to feel that change when playing). As one of the possible ways to have a better picture, I'd suggest, to consider another metric: the time of decay. I.e., compare the time it takes for the level to drop by some fixed ratio, like 10db.
@Harmonic14
@Harmonic14 2 года назад
While that might make a better picture for some, fixing the dB drop instead of the time is just a different way of obtaining the same information.
@AlmostSickBoy
@AlmostSickBoy 2 года назад
Ты понимаешь что он струны своей рукой вводит в резонанс? Не роботом с постоянным усилием, а рукой.
@m0nzderr1
@m0nzderr1 2 года назад
@@AlmostSickBoy Понимаю. Мы же не амплитуду меряем а коефициент затухания, т.е отношение между начальной и конечной амплитудой. При не сильном ударе по струнам и на клине (т.е. при достаточно линейнонй характеристике всего хоз-ва), это отношение слабо зависит от начального усилия.
@edgarmatias
@edgarmatias 2 года назад
@@rajeev-vikram-singh Semitones are logarithms, as are the other intervals. People may have trouble thinking in logs, but they can perceive them naturally (all music).
@NMPshadow
@NMPshadow 2 года назад
there is a simple reason, why we use the log scale for sound. We hear it this way. We are able to hear very well at 40dB and also at 100dB, if we used a linear scale for the actual sound pressure, it would extend over many orders of magnitude. Also 3dB at high dBs is definitely not the same as at low dBs, thats the whole point of dB! The difference between 15dB and 12dB is (1.12e-4 Pa - 8e-5 Pa = 3.2 μPa) while 103dB vs 100dB is (2.8 Pa - 2 Pa = 0.8 Pa). And saying that 1dB change can be perceived by many people is a bold statement. I gave lessons in acoustics (physics, not music) and even getting a stable signal with a variance less than 2dB in a classroom is kinda impossible. (Good luck trying that with a guitar)
@robertmenzies6939
@robertmenzies6939 2 года назад
Your videos are really great and have inspired me with my own guitar choices. Forget buying highly expensive guitars I have bought a budget one, got it set up well, changed the pick-up and had them set to a hight of my preference. Personally think I now have a guitar that sounds like one double the cost and with the tone and playability I really like. Thanks so much
@matthewburrows8851
@matthewburrows8851 2 года назад
This 👆🏼
@gentelmanjunkie542
@gentelmanjunkie542 2 года назад
Word. Just bought a Indo Retro that I'm gonna upgrade the electronics on, give it a set up overhaul and refinish refinish the wood and trim the headstock to look just like a vintage Telecaster and and save 10k.
@balint.palace
@balint.palace Год назад
Your findings (and methodology) create a whole new foundation for guitarists. These pieces of information should be taught in guitar classes. Huge respect
@scottashe984
@scottashe984 Год назад
You tests and results are amazing.
@dreaminginnoother
@dreaminginnoother 2 года назад
10:45 giving his guitar speed holes. Smart thinking.
@zhangke1350
@zhangke1350 2 года назад
I was so surprised at 3:40 that he actually did all the combinations. Respect!!!
@CarstenGoeke
@CarstenGoeke Год назад
Very good questions and checks. Thanks ✌🏼
@jeffzimmer3084
@jeffzimmer3084 Год назад
That was impressive. I love your thought process.
@justinpaquette224
@justinpaquette224 2 года назад
The most important factors for sustain are, good fret work, well cut nut, good functioning bridge, high enough action, new strings
@Broganshire
@Broganshire 2 года назад
and the way you play lol
@iancombs857
@iancombs857 2 года назад
Neck relief can have a surprising impact on attack and sustain as well. Loosen your truss rod and play a note, then tighten it a bit and play it. I THINK what’s happening there is the neck is chewing up some energy by bowing a little when the string is struck. If you can keep the neck as practicably straight as possible, I think you stand your best chance at getting the least amount of loss there as is possible.
@TexanUSMC8089
@TexanUSMC8089 2 года назад
How much does the nut come into play when you have a string fretted? When you play a chord, some of the strings may be open, but not when playing a note on a string that's pressed against a fret.
@sirporkrib7643
@sirporkrib7643 2 года назад
Weight definitely acts as a huge factor, when the weight is below a certain threshold. The "air guitar" is actually infinite weight, it will pretty much be the same as a 8lb or 6lb guitar. But how about 0.5lb? It simplely won't sustain long. 0.5lb hollowbody guitar? That would be even worse. It's all about how much energy is being taken by the guitar. Very simple physics. For solidbody above 5lb, effectively no energy is taken by the guitar, so in real life, the guitar itself won't really affect your sustain.
@sirporkrib7643
@sirporkrib7643 2 года назад
And that's proven by the 8:48 part of the video. When the resonant dresser took away quite a lot of energy, single note sustain saw a difference of 4db, which is huge. 4db is almost 3 times of power ratio.
@nicholassharp9798
@nicholassharp9798 2 года назад
Next video should be about how a hollow body sounds different than a solid body. If the wood and finish has nothing to do with the tone / sustain, why do hollow-bodies have those hollow sounding overtones?
@extendicus262
@extendicus262 2 года назад
I imagine it would have something to do with the vibration having enough room to go into the body and back out through the sound holes
@alphagt62
@alphagt62 2 года назад
Sustain is just one aspect of performance. Tone is a very different thing. There are very good reasons why guitar makers use certain tone woods. If it made no difference, why use some expensive wood? I know from personal experience that wood type and construction make a huge difference in tone. I’ve got two Fender basses. One is a Squire P bass, with what amounts to a plywood body. The American P Bass is the exact same size and shape, but is made of Adler. Both necks are identical, rock maple with maple fretboard, and they have both been hot rodded with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder pickups, their electronics are identical, I did the work myself. The result is, they are both fine guitars, but the Adler body is head and shoulders above the Squire, it has a beefier tone, a longer sustain, and a quality to the notes that the Squire doesn’t have.
@joshuarichard2509
@joshuarichard2509 2 года назад
@@alphagt62 he already made a video debunking tone wood....you clearly missed it.
@alphagt62
@alphagt62 2 года назад
@@joshuarichard2509 all he has done is measure volume, he has in no way measured tone. Some people just don’t want to realize that they are tone deaf. If they can’t hear it, they don’t believe it exists, simple as that.
@sagnier
@sagnier 2 года назад
@@alphagt62 you should definitely make a video countering what Jim has done. It would doubtless be amazing...
@indoorlionroar8973
@indoorlionroar8973 2 года назад
Well done!! Been showing your videos to my guitar lesson students. Thanks from Eau Claire, WI!
@Scottysaan
@Scottysaan 2 года назад
Very informative. Dude you really put some work in.
@garyjohnstonemusic
@garyjohnstonemusic 2 года назад
These videos are amazing Jim. Through pure experimentation alone (not withstanding your own insane knowledge of craftsmanship and musical ability) you're discounting all this marketing we're fed as to what makes a great player. The attention to detail in your videos is insane and will save a lot of people like myself a lot of money when they realise tone is (mostly) in the fingers. You're a world class player but it's also really cool that you don't use these videos to showcase that, just to demo the gear. The air gtr vid blew my mind.
@duanevigue1603
@duanevigue1603 2 года назад
Guitar players have a hard-on for words like "sustain" and "tonewood". Like you showed, the fact of the matter is, when it comes to electric guitars, the type of wood, its thickness, body size and shape, etc., etc., etc., have little to nothing to do with these mythical words. Electric guitars and the sounds they make are determined by the player and their amp. Thats it.
@spadestight6308
@spadestight6308 2 года назад
Pickups too but yeah that’s about it
@designator7402
@designator7402 2 года назад
@@spadestight6308 Pickups and the electrics of the guitar. If you run everything through a passive low-pass it's going to sound different :P
@mk_rexx
@mk_rexx 2 года назад
The sound chain is basically the player->strings->pickup->electronics->amp.
@m0002856
@m0002856 2 года назад
Pmuch this. I remember almost getting caught up in the specifics of the tone wood and all of that nonsense when I was younger. And then I used my brain and started doing some testing LOL The way I look at it, those "mythical words" you mentioned definitely can matter, but not for the actual quality of the sound being produced. If you're buying a Mahogany guitar because it's supposed to magically sound better, you're being scammed. BUT if you're buying a specific guitar because the neck is proportioned better for your hands or the body is a better size or the wood is a better quality that will make it durable to warping and other defects over time then you're using those buzz words for the right reasons. I think a lot of people are trying to hype up these expensive guitars and market them to new players who are likely to not stick with the hobby for a long time. Buzzwords are super effective when targeted towards 16 year olds who are just trying to impress their girlfriends with a guitar. You shouldn't throw all merit in those qualities completely, but you need to choose a guitar for the right reasons and not because some dude said mahogany is better for tone LOL
@thomasmoody8307
@thomasmoody8307 2 года назад
It's funny when he reads unsubstantiated, contradictory hypothesizing by people on forums. When presented with evidence that their beliefs are incorrect, though, they will claim to have magical ears that can detect sublime differences in tone, and if we were lucky enough to have extra super special hearing, too, then we would realize they are right. They must think they are Ferengi from Star Trek and play a dog whistle like it's a harmonica.
@blndrckr
@blndrckr Год назад
That IS awesome as you said Jim !!
@r666y
@r666y 2 года назад
Thanks for all of your effort. This is how a real test has to be done
@dannaaa330
@dannaaa330 Год назад
You also have to keep in mind that a few decibels of difference is a massive difference in loudness, since decibels are a logarithmic scale, not a linear one like meters.
@GuyXVIII
@GuyXVIII 11 месяцев назад
exactly ^^ Add few of these "small" differences and you have the tone thing going on.
@doom.azafran
@doom.azafran 9 месяцев назад
It's a logarithmic scale because even if the sound is x10 times louder, our ears only percibe an small increase in volume. So a difference of 3-5db is not that much.
@MakeSomething
@MakeSomething 2 года назад
I have a guitar build video coming out this spring and will be linking back to these test videos. So good!!
@amesoeurs
@amesoeurs 2 года назад
quality content man, love it
@jcs7217
@jcs7217 Год назад
I love video and the series - it's a genuine pursuit with an earnest curiosity. Additionally, he comports a level of humility that I believe most egos and experts should appreciate.
@walterkersting6238
@walterkersting6238 2 года назад
I like how he entertains each idea without implying that the idea is stupid and then proceeds to give it a try. There doesn’t seem to be a hint of prejudice against the idea or even stupider ideas.
@jakestewartmusic
@jakestewartmusic 2 года назад
Love this so much! I've never understood the obsession with sustain for guitar players. Certainly some guitars have differing levels of sustain, but I've always felt like the differences in acoustic sustain caused by different bridge materials, break angles, etc were negligible compared to the effects of compression, overdrive, and volume created by pedals and the amp, and the resulting feedback of the setup as a whole. When I think of sustain, most of the tones that come to mind eventually blossom into feedback and they all had insanely loud amps, fuzz pedals, etc added into the mix to get there.
@slicksalmon6948
@slicksalmon6948 Год назад
These tests are amazing!
@DylanWOWilliams
@DylanWOWilliams 2 месяца назад
Dude. I genuinely love it.
@bluglass7819
@bluglass7819 2 года назад
I build and do little experiments to answer my own questions sometimes. These videos have been super interesting to me.
@RoySmithVideo
@RoySmithVideo 2 года назад
Love it! Disproves every one of those "golden ear" guys that claim this or that feature of their favorite boutique guitar has the magic sustain. Keep up the good work!
@fromgermany271
@fromgermany271 2 года назад
The golden ears have often proven, that they cannot distinguish the „things that control a guitars tone“ in a blind test. A German university professor, who owns a collection of guitars of original brands wrote a book about all aspects of the system „electrical guitar&amp“. He occasionally added quotes from „expert magazines“, often contrary quotes, even from the same author, just based on what they tested. The result was: there are design aspects, some designs are just better solutions, but these are not the ones normally seen. E.g. the tone on a old LP was very dull and he found that the short cable from pick to pot was isolated with cotton, which collected moisture from the environment and that changed it‘s capacity to 10x the capacity of a standard guitar cable. So playing in the dessert sounded much better than playing in the Mississippi delta. Or he found that even modern Gibsons used an old approximation for the 12th root of 2 spacing of threads, whereas the cheap Epiphone’s used the correct values.
@forcryingoutloud23
@forcryingoutloud23 Год назад
I guess I'd hear things different if I had gold stuck in my ears too.
@mathkrGames
@mathkrGames Год назад
@@fromgermany271 Kannst du mir den Autor bzw. Namen des Buches sagen? Bin durch googlen leider grad nicht drauf gestossen.
@fromgermany271
@fromgermany271 Год назад
@@mathkrGames Manfred Zollner, Physik der Elektrogitarre. Leider vergriffen, aber in Teilen als PDF runterladbar. Edit: er hat die einzelnen Kapitel als YT-Videos verfügbar gemacht. Lesen fände ich besser.
@mathkrGames
@mathkrGames Год назад
@@fromgermany271 Danke!
@bloodsugar2low
@bloodsugar2low 2 года назад
You're my man. You clearly point out the evidences for all of my suppositions. I like Your approach very much and hope to see more💪
@rickplester9727
@rickplester9727 Год назад
Thank you so much for doing these! As a tone chaser these studies are invaluable!
@Lebron069
@Lebron069 2 года назад
Great video man. I'd love to see a test on why semi hollow guitars sound different in comparison to a solid body.
@markmallinder7618
@markmallinder7618 2 года назад
Very good point! I doubt that putting a strat pickup under the strings of a steel string acoustic would make it sound like a strat?
@420Gold
@420Gold 2 года назад
I’ve always wondered if how I hold and move the guitar affects the sustain. It would make sense that how you move the guitar after picking a note could effect how the string vibrates, and how long it vibrates. And also any airflow/wind could also make a difference in certain settings.
@jordanwilliamson2683
@jordanwilliamson2683 Год назад
another awesome video, thank you!
@s.nawfal6211
@s.nawfal6211 Год назад
I appreciate the hard work that went into this, bro you've earned a sub!
@sski
@sski 2 года назад
Well done, Jim! I really enjoyed this ride. I almost did a spit take when you took the saw to that strat copy and started drilling holes in it (great editing!). Cool playing it at the end too :D I'm looking forward to the next adventure!
@twasdl
@twasdl 2 года назад
As a kid when I wanted more sustain with an electric guitar, I upgraded to a better pickup and amp. I’d love to see these tone and sustain videos with acoustic guitars.
@briansanchez9899
@briansanchez9899 2 года назад
Most of the tone wood mythology and all the other magic stuff that people believe does apply to acustica instruments, so I'm guessing that it will be the opposite of this videos.
@Ottophil
@Ottophil 2 года назад
When I wanted more sustain i just picked again
@Michael-dx8qz
@Michael-dx8qz 2 года назад
@@briansanchez9899 yep, acoustic guitar actually uses the guitar itself to make sound, whereas the heavy lifting comes from the amp with electric guitar
@DrMurdercock
@DrMurdercock 2 года назад
@@Ottophil yeah, i never really understood the whole sustain thing. LIke, why lol. Maybe i just dont play the right style, but sustain has never had any effect on anything ive played on an electric guitar through a hi gain tube amp
@MaxPower-js1sk
@MaxPower-js1sk 2 года назад
Another excellent video, Jim. Cheers, Max Power 😁👍
@ldt6513
@ldt6513 6 месяцев назад
This is really cool! :-) Great project!
@karthain5742
@karthain5742 2 года назад
For your next test video, it would be cool if you did necks. Set versus bolted versus through.
@AKustik632
@AKustik632 Год назад
I think his previous video with just strings and no fretboard already debunks this myth
@aforabiishk
@aforabiishk Год назад
Ola englund has done a video on this topic
@williardbillmore5713
@williardbillmore5713 2 года назад
Les Paul's experiments in the 1920s showed him that he got the longest sustain when he mounted a pickup, bridge and nut on a two foot section of railroad track. He noted that the track is so dense and massive that the string can not make it vibrate, so all the vibration energy remains in the string for a very long sustain. He was quoted as saying "That thing seemed to sustain forever". So we can draw from that experiment and observation, the converse, that if the string is mounted to a material that vibrates easily, it will rob the string of it's vibrating energy quickly and the sustain will be much shorter. To translate those physics to real guitars, a guitar made with wood of a greater density and mass will sustain longer than a guitar made from lightweight, low density wood. I contend that you probably already knew that. If someone asked you what you would expect the sustain to be like in a guitar made from balsa wood, you knew already that it would be short, without the need to conduct the experiment. To answer your initial question, " What part of a guitar does the sustain come from?" The answer is; all of it. Maybe you should make a video replicating Les Paul's railroad track experiment and then make a guitar out of balsa wood to illustrate and drive the physics involved home to your fans.
@TheMemagNeman
@TheMemagNeman 2 года назад
Johan Segeborn already did the experiment on steel beam. It's on youtube
@modelcitizen1977
@modelcitizen1977 2 года назад
@@TheMemagNeman And fender made a Strat out of cardboard. Sounds fine.
@TheMemagNeman
@TheMemagNeman 2 года назад
@Andrew Elias So? People have made guitars out of resin, out of various recycled materials, out of concrete blocks, glass...etc "sounds fine" is a subjective thing. Does it produce a sound, yes it probably does. Is it sounding as good as high quality wood guitar, it could be a possibility , sure. But it could also be a dud, just like with a piece of wood. If it dampens the string vibration too much it will sound like shit. I guess that's why we don't put rubber on saddles/ nut and frets. I just think that dismissing body and neck material as a contributor to overall guitar tone is incorrect.
@TheMemagNeman
@TheMemagNeman 2 года назад
@@modelcitizen1977 Question: Is that cardboard guitar sustaining the note as long as the steel beam structure? I'd be surprised if it did.
@damienalvarez2957
@damienalvarez2957 2 года назад
So then why does my Les Paul sustain for less time than my Hummingbird when unplugged?
@MariaBethaniaCabrera
@MariaBethaniaCabrera 2 года назад
I just found your channel. Your videos are amazing. Much of you are discovering/showing we old guitarists pretty much already knew or at least suspected it. It's just so good to have your actual tests and research for reference about these subjects. Thanks so much for taking the time to do all these videos and congratulations for the quality of your work overall.
@nickmanville900
@nickmanville900 2 года назад
Really? Most of the old guitarists I know have thoughts along the lines of "wood is an enormous factor of what makes up an electric guitars tone." Which is what these videos are disproving.
@MariaBethaniaCabrera
@MariaBethaniaCabrera 2 года назад
You are right. I shouldn't have generalized that. I guess that's more like my own experience. Thanks for replying to my comment. By the way, did you read my other comment here talking about this matter?
@thefakeguitarplayer4124
@thefakeguitarplayer4124 2 года назад
Another great video. Subscribed.
@TALLPaul67X
@TALLPaul67X 2 года назад
Jim, Love the way you think man! Did you study engineering, or work in a technical field? Very methodical. Props on your channel.
@au5music
@au5music 2 года назад
From what I’ve gathered (and assumed) the most significant factors that effect the overall sound of a guitar are pickup type, pickup position, and player.
@axicon2232
@axicon2232 2 года назад
The actual Au5 here? That's crazy. Love your music, man
@whereandbackagain7059
@whereandbackagain7059 2 года назад
Au5 and I think that final factor counts for about 95% of it.
@SeeSawMassacre
@SeeSawMassacre 2 года назад
I'd say the amp has a more significant impact on the sound than the player or even the pickup position.
@jaguarsunburst1570
@jaguarsunburst1570 5 месяцев назад
Really Great Video Man ❤
@althewicked
@althewicked 10 месяцев назад
The second video I saw from you and its just amazing!
@RichWhiteley
@RichWhiteley 2 года назад
These vids are amazing. And the best takeaway lesson I'm getting, is quit cork sniffing and just pick up your guitar and practice/play/make music. And yes, pickups, setup, and strings probably matter the most. Love it, thanks for all your hard work putting these together!
@dominikrucka3552
@dominikrucka3552 2 года назад
Another great one. I enjoy the fantasy, that at least SOME people will stop obsessing about such things. I like that right at the start you've addressed my main problem with the sustain discussion (that was pissing me off for years) - ...because "For how long do you actually want the note to ring? What kind of music do you play"? Your videos are filling me with a great deal of satisfaction, because it just proves me right. And I don't even know much about "guitar physics", but it just always seemed obvious to me, that the tonal differences from guitar to guitar are in the real world inaudible, and that every guitar that isn't a piece of crap has enough sustain for a "normal person". Let's recap people: - The tone comes from an amp (and pedals/effects ofc) and the speaker (or an IR) and to certain extent pickups. ...NOBODY will notice if you change anything other than this. - Sustain is fine ("long enough") if the guitar is well built and properly set up. ...so get yourself a $200+ guitar and you're fine. And no, your $1000+ Gibson, Fender, ...whatever, isn't better when comes to the tone (except pickups) and longer sustain. It has better hardware, better electronics and it probably (hopefully) plays better, but play something else (with the same pickups) and nobody will hear a difference. Good for you for having an expensive guitar (I mean it sincerely), but don't argue that it sounds better than well built and properly setup inexpensive guitar, because "the wood, the...whatever". No, it's because of the pickups (that probably cost like $200 bucks a set). We should all focus on getting better at writing music (i.e. actually spend time writing music), rather than researching tonal differences between steel and brass saddles. Thanks for the ridiculous amount of work these videos surely take.
@xenophonkirby
@xenophonkirby 2 года назад
I recently put some Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates in a cheap guitar that now knocks ALL my expensive guitars out of the park. You're absolutely right!
@axelszetu452
@axelszetu452 2 года назад
Jim, you're amazing!
@raul_perro
@raul_perro 2 года назад
Brilliant video!!! Subscribed and like!! keep on rockin'
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