TF2: A Distinctive Lack of Team Recognition 

Man, I'm seeing some beautifully asinine and reductive counter-arguments floating around. I'll address them here as they come. inb4 "I ain't reading all that," My favorite thus far: 1) "Who cares, if it moves, I shoot. Just shoot everyone." Alright, if color isn't that important, put the game into greyscale, and try this argument again. Someone's position alone isn't enough to tell you if they're friend or foe. Once both teams collide, you'll be wasting half your time and shots shooting people that are on your team (not to mention, not all maps contain fully team-colored environments, Lakeside for example). The entire point of the game, being a team-based shooter, becomes moot. Reductive? Yes. But pointing out the extreme end-member case is important. Because what follows are arguments like this: 2) "You spycheck anyways, just spycheck everyone." Effectively the same argument as before, but twisted to make it seem as if though shooting everyone that looks like they're on your team is something you already do. You don't. Spychecking is common practice, yes, but you shoot suspicious players trying to get close, typically after a Spy has made his presence known (post death, failed stab, sappers, callout, etc.), or after obvious visual queues take place when he's disguised (i.e. a slow scout, bugged weapons or cosmetics [which shouldn't happen but they do], someone not actively engaging the enemy team even though they're right in front of them, etc.). If someone looks like they're on your team and aren't playing as Spy, they're acting like the class they're playing. Shooting their weapons. Moving at their speed. Non-Spy aggressors don't act like Spies, and don't exhibit the aforementioned gameplay queues, aside from the lattermost on rare occasion. Also, paranoia caused by a Spy's presence is MEANT to be a bad thing, because you now waste your time looking for him, shooting your own team mates, and not the other team, which is what team colors are meant to prevent. That's the point! That must remain exclusive to Spy, and not everyone else, lest it negatively impact the flow of the game. You expect, 1, maybe 2 spies at most in your typical game, cycling through respawn times. Not everyone on your team, all the time. 3) "Use nameplates to figure out who is on your team." This goes back to the greyscale argument. Have fun doing that in the heat of a fight through all of the game's visual noise. The game trains you to look for color in a split second, not for nameplates. Not to mention, with all the player models overlapping each other in the midst of a team fight, good luck telling who the nameplate was for. This is a serious gameplay clarity problem many modern games suffer from, TF2 players shouldn't be encouraged to rely on that. 4) "Colorblind people play the game just fine." No they don't, especially not for those who's colorblindness isn't aided by colorblind mode. Just thumb through the comments on this video. They have to go to extra lengths to compensate for their disability, for which not a lot can be done in a team-based shooter beyond ideal color choice (which TF2 already uses, red and blue, since most forms of color blindness only affect one color or the other) or changing how teams are distinguished entirely (i.e. using shapes rather than colors). In TF2, they're forced to use nameplates or other indicators that weren't intentionally placed to distinguish friend from foe. From those who've reached out to me, they HAVE to shoot everyone, and it frustrates them, because it detracts from their experience. Additional colors introduced by paints don't help them either, as some can look red/blue even if they're not. As harsh of a reality as this is, we should accommodate those with disabilities, but not at the expense of the majority without said disability. For example, adding shape-based team indicators would add more distracting visual noise to a game that was designed to mitigate that as much as possible.

people never shut the fuck about how special TF2 is but when you try to protect the things that make it special they seethe in anger

You know shits gotten absolutely out of hand when a Pyro can play Spy better than Spy.

fucking hillarious how we can have tf2 liberals and conversatives this shit is insane

I feel like any sensible person would be convinced by the clip at 13:11 alone. A poor gibus medic taking a one-way plunge with his medigun out, no hesitation, down into a point that has ONLY ENEMIES in it, in a vain attempt to save a player that was never on his team. And this player was not a spy.

the worst part of this video wasn't the problems with team recognition, it was realizing Zesty can walk around as a RED Pyro dressed as a BLU one, but I can't take two steps without getting spy checked

Any creator that outright mocks the games original art style should be blacklisted as a matter of principle.

I always appreciated that the map was red and blue too. Not only did they have separate colors, but they also had distinct material differences too. Red is more rustic, blu is more industrial.

Pyro got bored of spy checking, decided to be spy himself

They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.

can't wait for more fully paintable body cosmetics for the pyro

Zesty, why don't you make your own TF2 emporioum to defeat the workshop elites? Imagine how chaotic will become... the fun of beating them in their own game, and all because you and many gave them good and helpful criticism

all it takes for bad designers to win is for good designers to do nothing

I like how the entire video is about team recognition and then you super casually drop a nuclear bomb "most accepted items go through this literal monopoly mafia first. moving on - vote with your clicks but don't be an asshole"

Seeing the entire team ignore you on the point gave me whiplash

Preface: I'm colorblind, and boy am I glad for the clear and distinct lines that the original art style has taken. It took awhile to get used to, and it's harder to tell at range for some of the more indistinct classes, but close up, where I'm fighting, I have no issues. And then there's Jarate. I can not tell you how many times I've been killed by someone who I thought was my teamate because they'd recently been hit by a jarate. The light yellow and pale orange are waaaay too close for my eyes to tell at a glance

As a game designer who's worked with (less experienced) artists on development projects before, I can say it's no surprise how many of TF2's community artists prioritize art over gameplay without understanding the issue. They're artists, not designers. In a professional environment, they'd have to submit their work to a creative/design lead before it'd be accepted. Traditionally, that was Valve's job in this community contribution relationship. Nowadays, I cannot stress enough how LITTLE Valve's acceptance of an item means in terms of its validity. Whoever they've had making decisions for this game looked at WUTVILLE and somehow thought that was in-line with the game's identity. That's a degree of negligence so comical, I can only assume it was made by someone who knows next to nothing about the visual side of game development and design. Likely a low-level programmer who had nothing better to do. I repeat, Valve accepting your cosmetic makes it no more "appropriate" to TF2 than Wutville. THAT'S the bar.

Man the “who’s shooting me” clip really seals the deal. Not only was he actively looking for a target in the vicinity, he actively chose not to even check if he could hurt you, think about that. It takes practically no time whatsoever for a heavy weapons guy’s spun up gun, to quickly scan over a potential threat, see the damage indicator, and see the push back force, but he never even put one shot on you, not because he just didn’t see you, but because he actively believed that trying to shoot you would have been a waste of ammo, because you were apparently on his team… you were at 125 that entire interaction

pyro players shaking rn

Why do all TF2 RU-vidrs have such immaculate graphic design and animation talents? I've even noticed it myself in my gravitation towards the game.

Thankfully, according to Shounic, you can blacklist *any* item with tournament mode, including cosmetics. So it'd be up to community servers to remove the crap cosmetics in case it gets even worse

Imagine being given the opportunity to have your own creative work be immortalized in one of the greatest games of all time and GET PAID for it, and then having the audacity to believe you're too good to adhere to the original laws of the game's visual design simply because Valve stopped caring.

New tf2 update: spy’s disguise kit is now an all-class weapon

TF2 doesn't deserve to be in the care of the community. It deserves to be under the care of people who understand the intention of the game.

It's so hypocrytical of people to claim that they are evolving SOMEONE ELSE'S artstyle! How fucking dare you take something someone else put sweat and tears into and then claim you are doing it better while actively destroying it? TF2 has always had some very, let's say, "curious" communities within the game and outside but the cosmetic community and the RU-vidrs and their fans truly are two echochambers that have festered into something so toxic is beyond sad.

23:13 "what do you want me to do about it" my brother in christ you're making the fucking items

This actually the first "TF2's art style is dead" video that I completely agree with

Crazy how Vlave decided to forget all of this when developing CS agent skins.

Saying Overwatch’s screen clutter is a hot mess is a massive understatement. It’s an utter disaster.

Small mistake, the bonk is actually team colored. If you're on Blu you get a different flavor of Atomic Punch. Red is Cherry Fission, Blu is Blutonium Berry

I was the Medic and the Engineer in Mercenary Park (13:32 14:05). I remember how dumbfounded I was that you were just standing on the point unnoticed. I was also calling you out in the chat, mostly to no avail. Glad you speak up about this problem.

Anyone seen the new Uncle Dane video? I can't believe he said the team recognition problem was blown out of proportion when there is video evidence of it clearly being a problem that affects gameplay

I think this opens a larger discussion about readability in games. You can show someone examples of bad readability but it's hard because a still image is always gonna look readable because you have so much time to see it. But what people don't realize is that it's not about whether or not you can figure out what's going on, it's that you should be able to figure it out in an instant.

Like “I dare you to piss on that man’s rug for $5”, then the home owner is like “this is fine. Come visit again anytime.” Valve being the home owner.

No Chudsty, you don't understand, we need the fully paintable furry head

As a side note, I think Skial has a policy where they outright ban certain cosmetics because painting them will mess with team recognition. Violators get banned for them as well.

Ethical gatekeeping, I'm into it.

Scout has had the wrong pants color for the entire game's lifespan and no one has noticed That's how much the non-red/blue colors don't work as replacements

that kill at 2:32 is the only tf2 kill in recent memory that has gotten me to laugh, just the speed of the soldier hitting the pyro and the fact that I hadn't even considered it to be a spy

Cosmetic creators be like: "I'm not responsible for team recognition issue, just don't paint the item dummy." My brother in Christ, you made the item. You made the item and made sure that most of it is paintable. You knew exactly what you were doing.

a lot of items on the workshop look like sims 4 custom clothes lmfao

19:30 actually pyros axe is not team colored and is red on both teams. It’s something that’s bothered me for a while but luckily the default pyro melee is worthless and pretty much a straight downgrade from any of his other options so you don’t ever really see it. The weapon that is way more of an issue for me is the lugermorph being blue on both teams.

Zesty is a true statesman for tf2.

My friend blurted out "The war between TF2 conservatives and the TF2 liberals is going to be wild" halfway through the video and that's just all I've been thinking about while watching the entire thing

23:28 the most tragic story ever put to a screen

People who use "the art style is evolving" as an excuse for shit cosmetic design are the exact same as people who use "language evolves" as an excuse for not knowing which "your" or "they're" to use. There's evolution, and then there's being willingly stupid and lazy.

It's not called gatekeeping, it's called upholding/having standards.

As far as the colour goes, I notices that even the puff of smoke a Spy produces is faintly team-coloured, possibly the same colour as the Medic's default coat.

I used to dismiss this issue until i played a game with an enemy Red Pyro that used a stupid ass cosmetic shirt that made them look blue. I died, a lot. Update June 4 2024: i was in a game, there was a Sniper with the bushman, he was chasing my medic, and because i couldn't recognize properly in what team the sniper was on, i thought he was MY sniper attacking a Spy, so wasted shotgun shots in my medic before getting jumped by a Demoman and Soldier, a very good experience indeed.

Zesty is a fucking necessary part of the TF2 community because he does what few others have the balls to do and openly criticize people and things for the sake of keeping this amazing game as amazing as it is.

I can describe the workshop creators as..."toxically positive". They just want a hugbox where nobody is criticized but as a consequence nothing is improved or prevented from deteriorating with their indisputably awful ideas for cosmetics.

Valve knows, they just don't care. I really wish people would stop worshipping the ground they walk on because they made some good video games nearly 15 years ago.

In addition to team recognition, cosmetic colors can even affect weapon recognition! One of the main ways to tell the rocket jumper apart from the regular rocket launcher is its bright orange color, since the smaller details aren't really easily identified most of the time. Unfortunately, war paints now exist that can make the rocket launcher look mostly orange. I've had at least a couple instances where I was caught off guard by what I thought was a silly trolldier suddenly blasting my ass with a regular rocket launcher.

Putting a pinned comment here before the premiere (I'll replace it with something else I've written after it goes live): Finally, a new "major" video completed. Took me what, over a year since the last one? Kept you waiting, huh? And this time, NOT related to weapons or game balance. This is a first, so let's see how it goes. No, the thumbnail is not Emesis Blue...please watch more movies...

The message being people like the TF2 emporium are ruining the game because their cosmetics interferes with the core game mechanics of team recognition. The tf2 emporium don't care about tf2 but they want to line their pockets with ruining the game and getting social clout as the ones valve selects for their cosmetics. Last time I heard of a situation like this it was the Titanfall 2 debacle of a hacker ruining the servers because they had a connection with the gaming company through exclusive access so I suspect this may be the same situation of those individuals of the emporium having a contact in Valve.

Honestly if it weren't for the shitty cosmetics and paint regions I would say that even though a lot of warpaints look very saturated and obvious/eye catching, they aren't a problem. But unfortunately those shitty cosmetics DO exist and so warpaints end up compounding the issue. Having flashy war paints in and of itself isn't necessarily an issue, it just compounds a different, egregious issue.

I think the Bushman could be fixed by making it so Sniper doesn't have his vest, it's only his torn shirt so his entire torso is that contrasting red/blue it should be

As someone getting a degree in graphic design, this video is super interesting to watch. Thank you, zesty Jesus.

Zesty Jesus is the king of hot takes. Everyone wants to give him shit, but sometimes you need a person like that to keep things on track.

Zesty out here gatekeeping for the right reasons. Most workshop creators just dont understand what it means to fit into TF2. You can be the most talented modeler, or artist on the planet but if you can't make something that works with the games philosophy and style, then it doesnt matter

Great video, very detailed. Might as well use these cosmetic sets myself in the future, looks funny af

Death of an art style the sequel It's always bothered me how in a game where the default colour palette is so well designed, people whether memeing or otherwise decide to paint their cosmetics lime green or bright pink.

I thought this was gonna be a shit, generic video essay made by a 16 year old who obviously spent more time reading synonyms in dictionaries than editing. I'm happily proved wrong. And now properly informed on a topic I didn't know about. Thank you for this awesome video.

the robloxification of TF2 is a sad development having played it over a decade ago

Fitting of you to release this the night (presumbly) before the yearly Scream Fortress update

Guys i swear green team exists.

Hmm, I wanna make money. How about I make an item that fits the game? Nah fuck it here’s a pink cosmetic with a paint region the size of Russia

this video has genuinely helped me realise why some maps look out of place. Never was able to get why, now i know. Colour palettes and allat

Shoutout to that one funke vid where his suit for spy glitched out and tried to trick his teammates,

I'm happy we still have zesty in this landscape of copy pasted tf2 content

Excellent point, charming visuals, and logical, well-thought script. You pretty much scored a strike there! As someone who intentionally ignore both paints and weapon skins (even unusuals), I must say I agree with you mostly. Though I think it's mostly on Valve's end for accepting those horrific items (2020 Smissmas Case was undisputably gross) to the game, I understand your point that workshop creators shouldn't get their "Get out of the jail free" just because they're creating stuffs. Criticism itself isn't bad, it ultimately leads things to the right path if used correctly. Those who confuse between criticism and personal attack are the problem. Likewise, those who regard any criticism as a personal attack to defend their creations, too. Hope the community eventually raise a good environment with positive feedback loops, where both criticisms and praises are openly accepted.

you understand tf2's artstyle more then tf2 itself

Your HUD didn't do this video justice because we couldn't see what your (bottom left) player model looked like in real time when players misinterpreted what team you were on.

I mean, yes, TF2 certainly has better team recognition than many other games, especial modern games, but damn did it become a difficult task over the years to tell who's who because of huge paint regions and lack of team color. The background footage was some of the funniest and also most surreal things I've ever seen. It's as if you're playing Spy but you're actually playing Pyro and your disguise is more convincing. Let's all hope that it doesn't get worse than this.

This video made me realize how i dont have problems with recognising enemies in this game, yet in most other games I do.

so TF2 officially "CAN" be called a Pay 2 win

As the artist loser THANK YOU for finally talking about this! TF2’s artstyle is so deliberate with so much detail put into it, it physically pains me seeing people think cosmetics like these are okay to play with and against

i liked the part where you talked about the uss liberty incident

Finally! A comprehensive explanation on why I love TF2, but can't even watch clips from Overwatch. I have sensory integration disorder and it was all the colors making it hard to enjoy other multiplayer shooters, huh.

"Guys lets hate this youtuber because how dare he criticise a game how dare he say anything that slightly be seen negatively to the game i play 24/7"

It's so strange. Back in the Facepunch days the emporium was very critical of this with good-actors like NeoDement and NaSSimO always putting out seriously good direction/critique. I remember some uproar with some of The_Ronin's more questionable items getting accepted, while at the same time a lot of people were just happy that he was one of those stories where collaboration with Valve had taken him out of poverty.

A game that was completely killed, for me at least, because of cosmetics getting in the way of visibility was Among Us In a game where recognising specific colors is CRUCIAL, there are multiple cosmetics that don't change based on your body color, and that allows for some combinations where your body color and your cosmetics color complement eachother (black and dark grey specially), which makes it a lot harder to recognise the color of someone at times

Huge respect to you bro! (Original orange box TF2 player here) I can appreciate a lot of the new cosmetics and stuff but you're so right about the visual confusion some of these cause. It's all about keeping to the rules Valve had originally made when they cared. That's some seriously high quality video you made..! Cheers mate!

but because zesty said it people will try to pass it off as nothing until someone else speaks out and then everyone will agree with em

Zesty is gatekeeping. It's because he cares. And he's right.

it mostly falls on valve. they keep picking the same workshop creators over and over again because its convenient to not have to contact creators and set up legal stuff for payment and all that. So the creators stop caring about QC. if valve actually looked at the workshop instead of just their 'followed creators' list there'd might actually been some quality control

Haven't played or watched tf2 content in years but why do people even hate this guy

Even Funke made fun of this. YEARS AGO! AND STILL NO ONE CARES?!

Excellent points and S tier video. I hope Valve makes the item contributors to change the paint of the troublesome cosmetics. But that won't happen Luckily we that run community servers can just blacklist the cosmetics all together. But it still sucks for casual players to get bamboozled by players who paid money for cosmetics.

Remember when the corpse carrier threw off people so much it got restricted to halloween? Guess Valve didn't learn from their mistakes.

Medics and Spies specifically not being able to tell what team you were on was actually kinda funny, since they're the two that have special class-specific indicators of if you're looking at an ally or enemy that have always been extremely redundant maybe the TF2 devs knew cosmetics would be a thing even back when the game first released and decided to future proof things for those two (it didn't work, but that's probably more a testament to TF2 players than to the problem itself)

19:30 Minor nitpick: the fire axe is actually just always red, not team-colored

I know there is a no-hats mod, but could there be a mod that allows you to select which specific cosmetics are disabled? Like disabling the pottassium bonnet and certain halloween/chrismass hats etc?

i genuinely cant play other shooters because i can’t tell what’s going on. tf2s colour is what makes it playable for me

Glistening gem of a video

Does anyone even like the gaudy junk cosmetics anyway? They’ve always felt like filler to me. No one wants them and no one uses them.

The only people trying to "evolve" the art style of TF2 are the guys trying to change it.

Really nice video, man! As a colourblind player that REALLY loves how TF2 artstyle in its default state has never made me have any trouble with it, it's really nice for someone to talk about this!

TF2 Classic Supremacy

People in the workshop don't have things like "adhesion to the carefully crafted artsyle" or "team recognition" on the mind when voting, they simply have 0 aesthetic sense and think "woah cool" or "funny haha" and slap that approval button. Sometimes, gatekeeping is good.