TF2 - Grenade Launcher VS Iron Bomber 

The weird thing about the iron bomber to me is that, after a lot of use of the weapon, it started to feel like it's just the way that stock should be. Stock feels like the sidegrade to me after getting used to the fuse time and rolling because those things feel like they're more in my control using the iron bomber. I can plan better around blocking off chokepoints and taking out sentries just because I don't have to feel like I'm guessing at where the grenades will be when they blow.

Stock has 6 barrels because in the early days demo had 6 pipes

All the stock high level demos are demos who no longer play and played in the pre iron bomber era

hi I'm a high level competitive demo in North America, and I have a decent understanding of some TF2's mechanics. The reason almost every competitive demoman uses Iron Bomber is because of what you basically said, you get free damage by playing the exact same way. At medium to long ranges, anything you are trying to direct will most likely still take damage because the rollers will land right beside them and will det faster. As for some of the mechanics you mentioned in the video that you were unsure about. The reason if feels like you hit more directs is because the Iron Bomber has a much more consistent flight path. the Stock Grenade Launcher will randomly select what direction the pill is facing when launched (sideways for example) and will randomly spin it as well. This makes it so Stock Grenades will have much more inconsistent ranges and will shoot off to the side much more than the Iron Bomber, due to air resistance that you briefly mentioned in the video. It might not seem like much when you look at it, but it's definitely enough to just barely miss people at medium or longer ranges. EDIT: So when I wrote this comment, this was the understanding that the tf2 community had about how the Iron Bomber functioned at the time. Now, 2 and a half years later, it is commonly understood that that iron bomber does in fact have a larger projectile. It's possible it could have always been this way or changed at some point over that last couple years because of some bug, because if you watch other videos going over the subject, the way the Iron Bomber's projectile actually gets it's increased size, it's done strangely in the code compared to other items. I won't go too into detail about this, but I think it's a good example of learning to take things with a grain of salt, as well as the weirdness of TF2, which I know I'll be learning from. There is a lot of old info in forum posts or in other areas of the internet that was once true or functionally true about TF2, but with a game that has been out for this long that has been changed so drastically over time with updates, it's inevitable that things will change, bugs will arise, and our understanding will grow. Functionally we knew the Iron Bomber was easier to hit with, and our reasons for believing so might have been correct, but not the whole picture, or maybe even entirely wrong from the beginning, but we'll keep learning and playing because we love TF2. A fun, little known fact to many casual players though regarding player hitboxes, is that there are separate player hitboxes for projectiles (example: rockets) and hitscan (example: shotgun). Hitscan hitboxes are fairly accurate to the model of the class, while ALL projectile hitboxes are a rectangular box surrounding the model, that is locked in position so the flats are facing the North, South, East and West sides of the map and they are all the exact same size for every weapon and class. This means that the scout has lots of open and free space in his projectile hitbox where there is only air, while the heavy is big enough to slightly stick out of it. This also means, that if you are being shot at from a diagonal angle in relation to the map, then your projectile hitbox will be roughly 50% bigger.

“I’m assuming they’re (hitboxes) similar” How times have changed

Iron bomber: easy airshots. Stock: fires at a general direction where a enemy was. Somehow hits with a roller. I swear it alway happens.

If you miss with the iron bomber, the grenade won't roll too far from your target and will explode quicker and you might catch the target with the blast. You can say that it's more forgiving with misses that stock. Overall it's personal preference.

If every new weapon had to be utterly, massively different in its mechanism from every other weapon that class has, Demoman would only have maybe two grenade launchers, Soldier maybe three rocket launchers, and the Heavy only a single minigun. And everyone would be whining why Valve didn't add more weapons, yet every new weapon concept would be insanely difficult to balance against the existing ones.

I just think the iron bomber is better suited to players that like to go for direct hits and play more aggressively, and that's kinda the way you play, so I'm not surprised you see a better performance switching to this weapon.

YEARS later, we finally learn that the iron bomber grenades straight up have a hitbox 9 times as big as the stock grenade launcher grenades. lmao.

3:04 3-pointer from downtown.

i think this is kinda like tomislav vs stock, use the one that suits your playstile, they're kinda the same

Personally, I like to use the Stock Grenade Launcher when taking out Engineer nests and groups of enemies and use the Iron Bomber for 1v1 fights due to the the smaller explosion radius that the Iron Bomber has which can be the difference between getting or not getting a kill through splash damage.

I know I've said this a lot (especially in this channel) but I run the iron bomber and scot res.

the iron bomber feels heavy when you shoot it. the regular grenades (which I pretty much never use), feel really light. the cannon ball surprisingly doesn't feel that heavy.

Now buy an unusual iron bomber :)

11:41 min LOL, that double-take the RED Engineer did... Turns around, sees a Demoman standing behind him, turns back to his blueprint, suddenly his brain pings him 'hey, that was a BLU Demoman!', he swivels around again to stare at you, wondering you you came from.

Stock VS Iron Bomber Which one wins? Loose Cannon

I dont know if its just me but the iron bmber feels like it has a larger projectile hitbox. Using the stock and seeing grenades fly past the enemies head by the skin of their ear while the iron bomber I can direct hit enemies by aiming in their general direction.

2 years later we finnaly know that iron bomber has a giant hit box

Now that video is useless, STOCK GONNA BE META AGAIN.

I feel like I play more of a wall than anything using stock; for example on Badwater I most likely stick to my team mates, especially the soldier- and/or heavy-MeeM pairs, dish out decent damage and always mind the cart. When playing with the Iron Bomber, I go for the more 'sneaky' ways, for example the house on Badwater's 1st to 2nd point or around the corner above last, you get the idea. I get into 1vs1 scenarios more often and result in targetting health pack locations, to patch myself up and finish weakened enemies. So, without an obvious reason, I play more DPS-centered with stock and pick-centered with Iron. :D

They fixed it already yay

TOOFTY! RELOAD!!! PLEASE!!

I would say stock with stickies Iron bomber with hybrid knight or sticky jumpers

Iron bomber is great in competetive if you don't have sticks (am talking about rolles) but stock is better for spamming chokes (more splash radious). I was using stock but when i got my strange spec killstreak ironbomber i started to use it more becouse it suited my playstyle to dealing lots off damage

Host_timescale has an effect on physics. In half-life for example, falling with host_timescale at 0.1, you'll take more fall damage since it speeds up the physics too. It's not just a straight slowmo/fast forward. Hope this helps :) Edit: I use the iron bomber because it's view model seems smaller so cleaner screen for me :)

Turns out iron bomber is broken and the hitbox of the iron bomber's balls is much larger

Ive found myself in the same train of tought that i was doing better with the iron bomber, after some similar testing (without all the stats, purely me analyzing my behaviour) i realized i just dont spam as much with the iron bomber, most of the times i tried to hit directs, so i got rid of the viewmodel and sound, and played with stock for a time trying to aim more consistently, i really do think its placebo, because the main difference with the iron bomber its not significant enough to produce this difference.

I love how the iron bombs can also be used as a sticky bomb in a few ways. The lack of rolling allows you to spam them at the floor, and you can use them to grenade jump.

me : ( looks at iron bomber nerf and this video at the same time ) olso me: welp this is fucking useless

Too bad now todat iron bomber loses.

imo iron bomber is better for defense because you're meant to hold a point/defend an area, which is what the rollers of the bomber are good for since they don't roll around everywhere and are more consistent, whereas the stock would be better for offense as corners are good for surprising the enemy and for taking out nests

I don’t know. For me, it feels the other way around. Since I’ve been using stock for so long, when I try to use the Iron Bomber, it doesn’t feel right. Honestly, this comes down to personal preference. I’m better with stock, and others may be better with the Iron Bomber.

Aged like milk, considering the revelation

The video is now outdated lmao.

It's like the grenade launcher's echo fighter.

Why exactly can't they be reflected back as easily? I like the iron bomber with the charge n targe. It's kind of, as you more or less said, a hybrid of grenades and stickies. Great to be able to get one direct hit and one or two more on the ground. Better when dealing with scouts. Yes, you need a better skin for yours. Suggest neo Tokyo.

I personally love the iron bomber. Being a Demo main, I feel like I was hitting more directs with it. Also, the iron bomber suits a more aggressive playstyle, wanting to kill more people with splash and directs, stock is bettter for area denial. It’s like the difference between a lvl. 3 sentry and a mini-sentry.

Boom! GL>IB just like that.

3:01 I feel bad for that heavy.

The reason I only play with stock is to have some consistency. The likelihood of stock being nerfed is very low while an iron bomber has a better likelihood to be changed. I can keep my gameplay the same and hone that skill of playing

In my opinion Iron Bomber is more competetively viable,but stock is more viable in casual because of the spam and rollers on chokes.

Shounic covered the hitboxes, and demo likely is so drunk that he forgot that he can load 6 pills into stock

Iron bomber is for bad demos who can't aim regular pills, it's projectiles have a hitbox that are like 3X the size of regular pills. Crutch for bad demos.

In my opinion, giving the grenade launcher a quicker self-detonate rollers. The iron bomber can deal cheap damage by just having a slow rolling speed, But with the quicker self-detonate rollers the weapon can actually deal the same cheap damage as the iron bomber

weeeeeell, now that we got the vid about the broken iron bomber and the larger bounding boxes, i understand why people use the IB and i myself started to use it, and yes i'm hitting more pipes

Now that we learn about the bigger hitbox This video is obscure

Iron Bomber does something that Stock does not for the Hybrid Knight. Easy air time. It is far easier to get airborne with the Iron Bomber due to the grenades staying on the surface they land for a second, allowing for you to jump off it.

6:12 he realizes those second 2

Quality content bro, love how the tf2 community tries to keep the game alive and flowing!

After coming out the red shutter, you can start planting a sticky trap wherever, and grenade jump onto the roof while keeping the trap intact. Love this

Or here's a shocking idea: ITS JUST PREFERENCE. Some people are bound to aim better with one than with the other, IF there's a difference. aswell as that whole Team balance thing and all those variables.

How about Minigun VS Tomislav? Which one do you prefer?

use it with a shield and sword(or bottle, in my experience) for hybridknighting. The iron bomber's reduced fuse and increased predictability allows for pipe jumps, great when you lack an actual stickybomb launcher.

0:46 I REALLY expected you to say something else there

With the Iron Bomber, the user has an easier time predicting where missed pills are going to detonate, but so has the target. Also, enemies have an easier time fleeing against an opponent with the Iron Bomber, because the bombs won't continue rolling toward them. Just thought I'd mention it.

Everything about the iron bomber doesn't necessarily means overpower, but it's undoubtedly cheaper compared to stock since everything has been tuned in a way that makes stock's playstyle easier. While performance wise, it should be an upgrade to stock, design wise, it's a pretty boring weapon imo.

Fun fact: iron bomber has the biggest hitbox out of the every projectile Iron bomber have 2x bigger hitbox than stock granade launcher

I love how the investigation goes through the exact procedure for an IB science internal assessment/experiment

Actually the higher sample size of attack wouldnt skew your data unless your sample size was low. Because you didnt ONLY use the grenade launchers, however, there are compounding variables that really put the results of this video into question. Taking Stats has made me a cynical asshole. Never again.

After i got the iron bomber as an unlock i used it allways with no exceptions today i tried the grenade launcher and did not hit a single pipe (i got more than 1k hours in tf2 )

I don't really have anything unique to say, other than me using the iron bomber. soo... I hope you keep do what your doing! I love your video essays and I think its insane how much effort you put in.

Unrelated but I had a weapon idea for Demoman. Name: Loch Ness Landmine Type: Secondary Weapon, Stickybomb Launcher. Clip Size: 6, Ammo Capacity: 24 Pros: - Sensory Detonation, Stickybombs automatically detonate when stuck on a surface in range of an enemy. - No Arm time, Stickybombs are ready to explode the moment they hit the ground. - 20% Faster Reload Speed. Cons: - Sensory Detonation, Stickybombs cannot be manually detonated, and stickybombs destroyed by putting out more than 6, do no damage. - -15% Damage Penalty. - No Random Crits.

I do not use the iron bomber because it is broken. By the way, it has already been fixed?

I bet that they won't add an australium iron bomber Edit: Just make the stock have 6 ammo, and 24 reserve ammo

1:03 that soldiers rag doll was perfect

Dumbledore is dominating teatime. Sounds great, and something Dumbledore would do.

The time when people switched to the Iron Bomber was shortly after MYM, and the competitive players you chose that use stock quit before MYM. The people in your list of Iron Bomber users ALL used stock before MYM. So this comparison is invalid, as every top level demoman is using the Iron Bomber now.

Someone: NO YOU CAN'T USE THE IRON BOMBER THE STOCK LAUNCHER DOES WAY MORE DAMAGE. Me: haha iron bomber goes deep boom

There's a reason why most players use the iron bomber when playing online and stock when at LAN : ping. When playing with ping, the iron bomber gives you a bigger margin of error, as it explodes sooner and closer to your target

I like to think that the Demoman stashes bottles of beer in the extra two slots in his launcher.

I do hope someday we could repeat this experiment but with a greater variety of maps, gamemodes, and including the 6s format. In addition, I do hope valve changes the stats of the Iron Bomber to make it more of a sidegrade rather than upgrade. One Idea is to make the pills unreflectable or harder to reflect, have a slower projectile speed, and do more damage (on direct hit) the farther the pill was launched and less damage if the pill hits directly on a closer target (similar to the crusader's crossbow.).

The reason I use the iron bomber over stock is because one time right at the start of a comp match I caused a team wipe with it when my team rolled out to mid

This man made a full research paper about the iron bomber and grenade launchet

I have just starting playing for the first time since 2009. I was playing miserably. Starting watching Toofty and am now seeing a massive improvement in my play! Thank you!

ATTENTION: for those who dont know, the iron bombers grenades being 2x larger than stock has been patched

Holy fuck man, I used to watch your vidsz just a couple months ago. You're aim is so good now dude. Keep it up

In my opinion the iron bomber is for learning to hit pipes and they after you can switch back for all the benefits of stock

I think the last clip is all of TF2 perfectly summarized

I finally have a good place to learn about demo's weapons and his different play styles thank m8 keep up the content

Extra stat for the Iron Bomber @Toofty forgot to mention: When fighting enemies practically point blank, you could take a lot of self damage. With the Iron Bomber’s decreased explosion radius (-15% to be specific), you take less of the self damage. This comes into play a lot.

So the iron bomber is better? Toofty: Yes'nt

Meanwhile now: _Iron Bomber is not _*_effectively_*_ a direct upgrade, it _*_is_*_ a direct upgrade due to the projectile size being doubled. There is a clear benefit that is not there on any other launcher that enables it to fulfill its functions objectively better than stock._

Thought process: "gaben give me strength!" 8:55

I believe that Iron Bomber pipes have a slightly bigger direct hit hitbox, though I'm not 100% sure

You might have heard of the iron bomber having easier to predict pipes, this is a real thing. Sigsegv and others have made great videos about this and it is echoed by many competitive players. Given the same scenarios every single game, the weapons would practically perform the same. Its just flat out that you have more predictable pipes with the iron bomber. Other than the air resistance explanation, the stock pipes have a weird sort of curve to the mid air arc, the iron bomber doesn't have this kind of arc, thus it has more predictability. It is definitely more consistent, It's not a myth.

You mentioned it but i also wanted to add that the risk of getting less splash damage brings the want to miss less and it almost trains the player in a way to be as accurate as possible. Later i feel thing might switch due to style. As a scout player it does feel like they hit you with iron bomber projectiles especially when your up close.

I like the Iron Bomber because It covers that "quick explosion" role that stickies usually fill, it frees up my secondary slot for a shield for hybrid knight or a sticky jumper when I get one..

I think stock is better because of this example Situation A. Your a demo a scout comes around the corner you miss 2 of your pipes you hit A direct after the scout dodges a little bit he back pedals into one of your pipes it explodes causing splash damage killing him Or... Situation B. You have the iron bomber scout comes around the corner you miss 2 pipes blah blah blah you hit a direct But this time the pipes explode before the scout back pedals causing him to get away You don't know how many times Stock has saved me form opponents that were retreating because the fuse was long so that's why I use the grenade launcher over the iron bomber

For me, who don't really needs something to assist me hitting my pipes, I find myself having more fun with the stock than iron bomber

The Iron bomber is my favorite weapon to use in comp. It is just a better weapon due to how easy it is to control and how most more likely it is to combo your rollers and direct hits. The weapon in general does have flaws compared to stock. Like not being able to dish out anywhere near as much group damage.

And now he knows the truth about the iron bomber and it’s bigger hit box

Who else is here after the Iron Bomber bugfix?

Iron bomber: helps you with precise hits Stock: idk man i just threw a couple at the point and killed half of em'

the iron boomer was originally meant to have a hold to fire more mechanic aka you hold the button you fire more pills at once. but that never made it into the design even though it apparently has animations for it.

The reasson people hit more with the iron bomber isn't how fast the projectile goes, but the more straight arc it has.

I’ve been playing with the loose cannon, and I’ve found it does up to 150 damage up close with no donk, enough to kill half the classes, and with the donk, could probably kill a soldier and severely weaken a heavy. Thoughts on the weapon?

iron bomber is ok at taking out sentries. not nests, just single sentries. it’s also nice and easy to get directs.

Shounic did a great video explaining the hitbox size of both projectiles. (The iron bomber has way bigger projectiles)