Why would anyone live in Thailand and submit to double taxation like this? They're ending Thailand as a destination for retirees and digital nomads. I'll go where I'm treated best.
No, it does not apply to pension income you declare on your home country's return. Thailand also has a non-double tax agreement with the US. There are not many well paid jobs in Thailand, most foreigners who work teach English.
@cy6412. Bye Bye, I love Thailand. The US Thailand Tax treaty is still Valid and describes what you should declare as your tax (state) country. It describes what is protected from being double taxed in Thailand. If you are taxed most of us would fall in the lowest tax bracket 5%. You can leverage foreign currency against the Baht and get 3% more value, invest in a 3 month CD at 5.5% that's 1.375% return + 3%= 4.375% leveraging currency that is only .635% tax. The total cost of living for a year say 500,000 baht, if that goes up 5% where are you going to move that yearly living expenses are less and you have a similar lifestyle and quality of life.
They arent double taxing. If you are not a tax resident you wont be taxed at all. Whats changing is the abolishment of the year exemption for remittance
The more I stay in Thailand the more I understand they have no idea about economy. They think extracting every penny out of someone is good business. Instead of understanding that money spent in the country is the real value, and making people feel welcome should be the focus.
@@profitabundance70707But 100F gets Dubai. And they also tax big there as imputed in the prices of condos. You may say Dubai not just double-tax but quintuple-tax!
Absolutely. This is a common mentality within the populace, not just government. It is a laziness and entitlement stemming from pride. Just look at the taxi mafia in tourist areas. When you point this out they get mad. It is another reason why I don't like living there. Too much immorality.
When a government decides it can access your hard earned money and you have to account to it because you stayed beyond X days, send a message and leave.
I live in Thailand and my only source of income is the old age pension which is not taxed in my home country. As it stands now I will have to pay taxes on anything I bring into Thailand. If this doesn’t change I am out of here. This will also hurt expats who are married to a Thai with maybe children and don’t have the option I do. This is a crazy move on the Thai government and will destroy the expat community, the real estate market and many Thais families who are dependent on an expats money.
Go to the Philippines Mate no worrys, they do not tax you there at all, and there is no problem to stay for 3 years at the time before you need to take a visa run,. And Because if you do not pay tax on your pension in your home country, since they now have got the link and can see if you pay tax as your not doing they will tax you in Thailand my friend. And you will get more to spend in the Philippines on your pension as well pesos is more than Bath Mate, l know l lived in Thailand for years then l got smart and moved to the Philippines
That's the point. Their inflation is persistently high, which makes sense given that 13% of their economy is tourism (USD etc coming into their country). Reduce that inbound cash flow, slowly deflate the economy.
We were hoping to retire to Thailand but this definitely changes things for us. We have little income except some interest on savings and a small pension, so we live off our capital. That capital is savings from income that was already taxed when we earned it. But if we are now being taxed on our capital again once we spend it in Thailand, that means we'll be taxed twice on that money. Plus to get the visa, we each need to transfer 800,000 baht and leave it in an account untouched. That amount sent to Thailand for the visa requirement would presumably be taxed as well! For those of us who aren't big earners, this seems a disaster!
@@AffiliateJamboree Thats not how a double taxation agreement works. The taxation paid in the country of origin is offset against the taxation due locally. So if Thai (local) tax owed is $1100 and in the US (origin) you had already paid $500...then you still have to pay $600 in Thailand too. It doesn't exempt you from Thai taxes altogether.
@@DebyColes Yes, but I was going on the assumption that you don't have an actual job in Thailand or earn any income in Thailand. Which will be the case for @DebyColes and most people wanting to retire in Thailand (or stay on a retirement visa).
Well done, if anybody wasn't already confused, they will be after watching you. You are all over the place. Try thinking about what you need to say, slow down and say it clearly.
Absolutely right.This bloke does my head in at 200 words a minute. Like watching a dog chase its tail. Nobody is interested in how it works in Barcelona or Islamabad. Slow down,stop rolling your eyes around, look down the barrel and tell us the facts about how its gonna works here and now.Job done in 5 minutes max. Then you can make another video for those that want to parachute into another country later. I'm guessing u won't win any new customers with this rambling gobbledeegook.
Thailand is famous for its flip-flop politics. They regularly announce changes, new laws and regulations. After receiving feedback from the public, they have then often either amended these changes and usually watered them down or even abolished them. I also assume that this change in the system is aimed at the wealthy Thai citizens rather than the foreign residents. There are quite a number of Thai HNI and I am sure they have benefited from these favourable tax laws in the past. These are the people with power, and I would not be surprised if they are not already "lobbying" to cancel these plans for the future. In addition, Thailand's progressive tax system is not as bad as in other countries. The 35% tax rate only applies to the amount ABOVE 5,000,000 Thai Baht (around 141,000 USD). The actual tax burden on 5,000,000 Thai Baht is around 25%, as each individual income bracket up to 5,000,000 baht is considered individually rather than the total amount. But for now, let's just wait and see...
@@Dodger1999 Because the announced change has nothing to do with the nationality. It applies to all tax residents. It has to do with how they interpret their own tax law. And I'm pretty sure that there are many wealthy Thais that have been benefiting from the current interpretation. So it's not that locals would not want the foreigners to be taxed, but they might not want to lose that loophole for themselves.
The big problem is whether you're going to have to get a tax ID and file a tax form each years. And if immigration will demand to see it before issuing you an extension. That would complicate life a lot.
@joem0088 but when the government desperately need money to fill their coffin, It may be quicker more than you think and recent year (they proof it in covid crisis. ) the situation seem to be right that due previous government burn a lot of budget and make a bit of public debt and current government need lot of money to fund money throwing project.
@@p_1945 "Coffin" ? Really. HNW foreigners on rertirement visas are very mobile. When try to tax them they can and will spend less than 180 days here. So what do you collect ? The less days in TH, the less they spend in TH too.
Why don't they just put the visa extension prices up rather than changing the new tax law? It would be far simplier and cheaper for the Thai Government to collect.
Exactly. If I am not sure that I will be able to protect the money I transfer to Thailand to buy a condo against the double taxation (i.e. that there is a clear and reliable way to prove that the money has already been taxed in my home country) than good luck expecting me to buy a condo in Thailand after spending 180 days there 🤷 The construction industry in tourist areas will feel the impact for sure.
Exactly. Lots of relationships will end as well as many expats will not be able to or not agreeing to paying remittance tax on their spending money. Very sad for many. Lots less support money for those poverty trapped people in expat relationships. Property market sector that relies on expat investments I am guessing will lose a lot. Car market for expats as well as more expats spend less to keep taxes lower. Who would want to invest in Thailand now? My privately funded Australian pension fund is tax-free there. And no exemption appears to exist under our DTA. So my pension remitted to Thailand will be taxed around 20%. It means less money remitted to Thailand to keep under thresholds for those expats deciding to stay. Also more expats deciding to keep under 180 days a year in Thailand and spending their money in other countries instead. Many I believe will just leave Thailand and start a new life elsewhere. Many expats don't want to and cannot afford to be having to reside in two different countries a year. No benefits are being offered either. Expats will need to pay the same much higher prices for Healthcare, cannot open any business and work like a Thai. Zero benefit. And wealthy can dodge tax by purchasing an LTR visa. Big headaches with tax paperwork, accountant fees, different tax years in your country will complicate things and add more costs.
Andrew has it wrong. Or least he hasn't given you the complete picture. My international tax professional assures us that if we have a girlfriend or a wife.And we transfer the funds from a foreign country into her thailand bank account and give it to her as a gift. If she's a girlfriend you can give her up to 10 million.thb If you're married you can give her twenty million thb tax free. Andrew needs to get up to date.
From the U.S. and was considering retiring in Thailand. I understand income like social security would not be taxed under the dual treaty. It seems transferring money from the U.S. and credit card use would be taxed. That’s insane and a deal killer.
Remember what he said? The tax brackets in thailand are much lower than. That means you are in a higher tax bracket in Thailand. If you spend all your retirement saving in tahiland, you will be taxed at a higher rate ( adding both back home plus thailand) than you are now. If I understand the implications, if you are rich, then it is not that bad. Keep most of your income off shore. If you plan to spend the rest of your life retired in thailand with a modest income, maybe wait to see what happens before making any plans.
@paulwagner9788 if the credit card is from a foreign bank and you use it in thailand, you are transferring money. Could you hide it? Bigger problem in the long-term visa requirements. Keeping money in a bank means that the money came from somewhere. If you live in an apartment and they ask where the money for rent came from, what do you say if you are on a retirement visa? I expect the source of your income will become a common question when you renew your long-term visa
He first stated that savings will be taxed as income, what I think I heard is money's brought into the country other than social security will be taxed that is if you stay longer than 190 days 🤔
I spend both my pensions in Thailand. It costs Thailand nothing to have most of my pensions being spent in Thailand. It is free. And now it looks like they might want to tax my pensions. I hope not. In fact. All pensions coming into Thailand is a bonus of free money for the Thai economy.
Interesting information, I live in Thailand, so thanks for clearing that up a little bit . However one thing to remember about this country is just because they talk about it that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a done deal as we have many retired ex-pats here, so we are all curious what the final decision will be when it comes to pensions and Social Security for us Americans!
Read page 64 Paragraph 2 of the Double Taxation Agreement "a social security benefit or similar public pension to a resident of the other Contracting State or to a citizen of the United States will be taxable only in the Contracting State making the payment" You social security will Not be taxed by Thailand unless this agreement is changed.
I am already paying tax in Australia as a foreign resident for tax purposes at 32.5%. Australia and Thailand has a tax treaty, so surely i dont have to pay a double tax. If thats the case i will probably go to the Phillipines.
I definitely like the optionality in Asia. I have the Thai Elite visa and like to spend about 6 months in Thailand on that visa, then 90 days in Malaysia and 90 in Singapore. With Vietnam, Cambodia, Bali, Japan, etc sprinkled in.
If you retire in the Philippines, you are not taxed on your foreign income remitted to the Philippines. Also the visa procedure is much simpler, its actually a residency, you can legally work, you can apply for national health services, all government facilities and paperwork is in English...People are very friendly...The beaches are even nicer than the ones in Thailand. Not as crowded with tourists. Draw your own conclusions.
Ridiculous. Remittances could include savings which you have already paid taxes on in your home country in the past and you’re getting taxed again when you bring those after tax funds into Thailand? Or if you’re an American you’re paying taxes on concurrent income regardless of where you’re living and then paying taxes again to the Thai government? What happens to the tax treaty between the two countries? And who is going to sort this mess and keep you clear of trouble from the authorities?
This will have a devastating negative impact on high end housing, real estate markets, private schools, private hospitals and high end businesses as expats will explore and exercise other options. All the hurdles, hoops & loops an expat has to deal with to attain a retirement or marriage visa and to now have tax implications here in the Kingdom is not in the best interests of current or future expat retiree's. This tax issue has probably already changed the plans of many expats gearing up to move and retire into Thailand in 2024.
100% ... they are going after the wealthy Thais but hitting expats instead ... high end investments will dry up except for those who launder their money.
You must not live in Thailand. Every year I spend 2 hours filling out and signing some forms, bank statements, copies, and having documents reviewed for processing of a 1 year extension. Thank You Thailand as I am living as close to Paradise as I can afford. What a bunch of entitled, elitist that think they are above all other immigrants living in countries around the world and shouldn't have to spend 2 hours a year to complete immigration requirements for 1 year.
Thailand doesn't tax US social security income. If you have some private income in addition to ssi, would that be taxed in Thailand, ignoring the ssi income for bracket purposes?
Mr. Dunn, I think what you meant to say, is that Thailand DID NOT tax S.S. income, at least up until Jan. 1 2024, after this date it is a whole new ballgame unless the new Thai administration decides to come forward and clarify this new law and how it is to be applied to Expats. As of now, the reading of this new law clearly says "remittances into Thailand"", it makes no distinction between wealthy Thai's with a foreign business or expats bringing in funds from S.S. and/or funds from any other retirement type program that was funded with AFTER TAX Dollars. Given the Thai governments penchant for shooting themselves in the foot, and even after realizing that they made a mistake, not coming forward to rectify the mistake due to a "loss of face" , I have a feeling that we will be discussing this same topic a year from now. Let's see how countries like Malaysia, The Philippines, and Vietnam step up and start courting the Expats in Thailand.@@timdunn2257
What if you bought money into the country to buy property..(money your already been taxed on three times already)..the Thai housing market is already on thin ice if they are going to take 35% of say 300000 for a house purchase the housing market will just fall out the bottom.
Buy it the year before you are a tax resident? As he mentioned, you only pay taxes on foreign income if you live in the country 180 days or more. So get everything set up before you move. I'm not an expert. Just long time expat in Isaan. And I ain't paying taxes next year lol
the INCOME tax, not capital tax. If its money you already paid tax on, they are not interested in taxing that; Only income you earned in the year that you spent > 180 days in thailand
@pweb4941 I don't think you understand the situation. Any money brought into the country will be taxed no matter when you earned it. Likely a withholding tax on any transfers into a Thai bank account from overseas.
Philippines all the way. Highly underrated country with so much potential. Everybody speaks english. Visa can easily be renewed every 2 month for approx 50 euros. Only once every 3 years you need to leave the country. Amazing islands and beaches. Living in boracay island since 8 years. Thailand is my number 1 for vacation but i am not planning to leave this country to live somewhere else.
@@windit5877I was in Cebu Feb 2020 but left after a few days because covid turned into a panic type situation -I woman in fining back this year to PH to explore over a few months I live in Thailand now and like it but want to compare -I dint take the jab nor will I ever submit to that so it is an issue to me living in a country that forces garbage like that.
I will not pay any cents at this country !! I have not worked almost an entire life to give my money at this country!!! I already help the economy of this country spending and consuming here!!
First check if your country has Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) with Kingdom of Thailand, if they do, then you don't have to worry about this, because DTA prevent the same income from being taxed twice. Australia has DTA with Thailand, and age pension is exempted from taxation according to Australian Treaty Series 1989 No 36 with Kingdom of Thailand. Google the treaty online. Article 18 in the treaty says Pensions and annuities Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State. Don't waste your time and money listening to the expert, because they are here to confuse you and make money from you.
You did not cover retirees. We just retired here in Thailand 2 years ago and settled in here. What about the money we transfer from savings? I can't believe how last minute this is.
@@w3s77 I don't think so. We renewed about a month ago and no one asked about any tax info. Have you heard anything outside of speculation on expat channels?
@@fractal4619 3 days ago, read Bangkok Post worldwide tax article. All Thai tax residents will be required to file and pay taxes by end of March 2025 for tax year 2024. According to revenue department, this will include world wide income. Hire a Thai tax professional.
For me, the problem isn't the tax. (My income source is a tax except inheritance). The problem is the red tape. I didn't envisage having to learn tax laws, obtain tax residency, and file taxes in my retirement! It's a lot of effort... And though at the end I won't pay any tax money.... I'm paying time out of my life (and I don't have so many years left now)... And/Or I'm having to pay a tax lawyer.
Thailand has always been expensive and confusing when it comes to taxes and visas. Now it has become even MORE confusing. Won’t go back. Cambodia is MUCH simpler and easier to live in longterm.
The Philippines has a territorial tax system- no taxes on income earned outside the Philippines. This incentivises remittances and is quite favorable to the upper classes as well, as many have holdings abroad.
Trust me when l say go to the Philippines and live there, l have lived in Thailand for many years l got so sick of this flip-flop system and all the problem with visa rules so l did move to the Philippines and boy it was 10 times better my friend, and they do not have any tax to pay if your an exspat with your own pension
@@roderick2105 Fly direct to cebu city and check out the Visayas region. You won't regret it ..visit Bohol, safe, friendly people, nice beaches and the ladies are not hard on the eyes either
I live off of the monthly dividends paid from my investments in Canada and I live in Thailand under a retirement visa.For the last 2 years I have not paid taxes to the Canadian government due to that 1/3rd of my investments are held in my TFSA and the other dividends are only 50% taxable which puts me under the threshold.Long story short is if I don't have to pay taxes in Canada where the money is generated why should I have to pay taxes to the Thailand government when I derive no benefits of any kind.
Too many interpretations where there are no written tax laws still are causing uncertainty and ambiguity in the financial landscape. It is essential for the Thai government to provide clear and concise guidance to both taxpayers and businesses to ensure a fair and transparent tax system. Tax laws with different scenarios will have hundreds to thousands of pages, currently, they only have less than 4 pages. I doubt these changes will happen in 2024. And if it did, they would lose full-time foreigners who spend and bring money to Thailand.
Oh yes this will come in 2024 l have lived in Thailand for many years and l know all about his flip-flop system with visa and now tax system this is how they operate mate, and why go there and live when you can live in the Philippines with no stress and hassel and if you feel like going to Thailand then it is only a 2 hour flight Mate
Why people refer to it as a third world country make huge tax changes that’s means 10s of thousands of Extra taxes to pay now and they don’t even know the law what a joke Thailand
Your analysis is great and the best I heard so far. The tax change encourages expatriates to spend less in Thailand as they would be taxed now by how much they remit. Not to mention all the hassle in compliance with the new tax law, which makes Thailand's already expensive long term visas very unattractive.
It's very easy to change cash in Thailand at around the mid market rate too.... Under $10k doesn't need to be declared..... This should be a good chunk of living expenses for most ex pats..
It would have been good if he could have gone to more details about other options in SE Asia. I’ve heard good things about Vietnam. I’m looking at doing 6 months in Thailand and 6 months somewhere else in SE Asia
Ya Vietnam is not friendly to foreigners, or their own people in most cases. Laos is dirt poor. 5 star steak dinners are about $6. You can't own land in either of those countries. Cambodia is probably the most friendly to foreigners. You can own a business easily and it's a gateway to citizenship.
If you're a tax resident it does not matter if your bringing the money into Thailand or not because you are still required to report all worldwide income or its a violation of the new law.
Nothing is going to change. No tax collection on retirees as it will be difficult and rich retirees, the big spenders, will either leave or be sure to spend
In the old days anyone stayed here more than 100 days in a year needed a tax clearance. It could easily be fixed, making a deal with the people outside the office. (These people worked together with the officials inside.) Bring some cash.
1) Be realistic, how would they check all the deductions from your foreign debit or credit card? Those will probably not be included. 2) You could put money in a Thai bank this year, so it falls under current law. 3) If double tax treaties would be violated, a country like Germany might simply enforce their law on the Thai king who resided there more than half a year and currently owes them 3 billion from his inheritance.
l do not know where you are from but many contryes in Europa has a system like in my country of Norway that if you move out of Norway you only pay full taxs to Norway the first years afther you move, then afther a year you pay 15% tax on the pension payed out only, because we have a much higer tax system right. And you then have to open a bank acount in the country you move, like Thailand, so you can not have a bank in Norway and get you pension payed out in Norway then you must pay full taxs in Norway and that is much more, so you can forget all of this because it will not work for any Scandinavian people at least, l do not know the rules in Europa but l think it is the same there in a form, so how can all the exspat from Europa stay in Thailand my friend?
The payment gateways have all details of the credit card when a payment is made at any terminal. They know if a local Thai issued credit card or an international credit card is being used for the transaction. The Thai authorities can just demand the details from the payment gateways……if they wanted to.
that will never happen, because the credit card companies are not allowed to disclose any details of their customers. Moreover, millions of tourists and business people use their credit cards in Thailand, it would be a hell of a job to track down the foreign residents, especially the ones without a tax ID.
My understanding is that as long as there is a double tax agreement, then it will count. But, you will be in a higher tax bracket in thailand, he only gave one number but for single people, the 35% bracket starts at $243,725 ($487,450 for married filling jointly) in the US, in Thailand it's $140,000. Don't forget you will lose all of your deductions and tax credits from your home country. If you want to retire on a fixed income, then you might want to wait to see what happens.
You are both stupid and don't understand the law. If Germany REALLY implemented their tax law on the Thai King then his liability would be zero. This is because all european countries, Germany included and a large number of other countries have signed up to an international treaty where heads of state have no tax liability. And the This King is head of state (of Thailand). Plus the Thai King no longer spends much time outside the country anyway.
Where are you getting the 2 or 2.5 percent tax from? Looking online, these are the tax brackets I'm finding (consistent across multiple sites, incl. official Thai ones): 0 to 150,000 THB is exempted from income tax. 150,001 to 300,000 THB is subject to a 5% tax rate. 300,001 to 500,000 THB is subject to a 10% tax rate. 500,001 to 750,000 THB is subject to a 15% tax rate. 750,001 to 1,000,000 THB is subject to a 20% tax rate. 1,000,001 to 2,000,000 THB is subject to a 25% tax rate. 2,000,001 to 5,000,000 THB is subject to a 30% tax rate. 5,000,001 THB or more is subject to a 35% tax rate. Assuming even a no-frills annual budget of EUR 30.000, that puts you in the 25% bracket (1.17 million THB).
Quite right, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai in the eighties were beautiful rural villages but how things have changed. Now the condominiums, shopping malls and too many bloody farangs have made those places unlivable - might as well stay home.
When I see Soi 6 girls in RU-vid videos I keep thinking that they have got older and a lot heavier then before COVID. Either the majority of good looking girls are doing OnlyFools or they just have the same dietary issue as the Western countries (eating too much fast-food and pizza) 🤷
i was going to apply for a Thai Elite Visa and I stopped the process for this reason. If you live on a budget of US$1500, your cost of living increases around 10% which is not the end of the world. What I am really concerned about is the paperwork.
Are you under 50? That is the only reason to get Elite. Most younger expats prefer an education Visa. Don't give the government a massive chunk of money lol
Thailand is pretty inexpensive. If it were me, I would contact an accountant there. I'd bet for a couple hundred you get get all your answers and some paperwork started.
@@ShoelessNomadThailand Depends what they do for a living ... and where do they come from ...We can't make a single rule fitting for everyone. I'm in the same situation as @LuiSeD86 , i made all the process for Elite visa , and just stopped it at payment stage ... paperwork is not what affraid me , my issue is capital gains with stocks and crypto , Thailand was 0 % on it , my bet is it won't last after 1 Jan 2024
I'm a commodity technical swing trader. Trade out of Cayman Islands, Bank in Gibraltar. I will just use my Wise debit card for all transactions in Thailand. All very simple.
I read that the Thai Tax Code further specifies that official government pensions from foreign countries are not considered to be taxable. Is that correct?
I have even heard tax experts who are still unclear on this. Some say pension will not be taxed other say they they will. No one really knows for certain yet because the Thai government officials have not issued any clarifications on the new tax rules. We must wait until we know more.
Does the money you put in the bank for your retirement visa, is that taxed? How are retired individuals taxed if they are living off their savings and IRA accounts?
@@clausbohm9807 There is no interest on the deposit, no income, no taxes. But if one has any income anywhere in the world and spend more than 180 days in a calendar year in Thailand, they will have to file a Thai tax return. Hire a local Thai tax preparer.
This is a counter incentive to living there long term and spending a lot of money there. Say you found a really nice condo for $120,000. This could add 10's of thousands to the purchase price. What do you do? Leave for 6 months that year? This is exactly what I'm looking at.
It gets worse last week worldwide taxation from 2025 was announced. No one in their right mind should consider Thailand now. A third word tax system with western style taxes.
My question is if I don't staying totally more than180 days per year, so I will not be asked for tax declaration? I don't care about Taxes(I'm not working), but I don't like the paper work like declaration of income or capital.
What is benefit of a Wise debit card? I have Wise but didn't know you can have a debit card. Is that necessary if someone has a Thai bank account? When I want to get money into Thailand, I just use Wise to pull from my USA bank, convert it to Baht, then move it to my Thai bank.
@@markob17 no need for Thai Bank account. The transactions go through Wise no trace back to Thailand is an off shore card. Use it anywhere in the world
If you remitting the money under a 180 days in that calendar year and you move there starting the next year, if money is already there from the previous 180 days, are you tax-exempt?
I was never interested in Thailand to begin with and this further solidifies my opinion! I’d rather go to Montenegro or Croatia with my Ukrainian girlfriend! ❤
This is what I need to be aware of for multiple countries. I need to talk to a tax attorney for expat issues. I am wondering if a person whose net worth is encapsulated in 401k, IRA and taxable brokerage, is it a good idea to encapsulate these accounts in an LLC to keep the assets invisible to prying eyes from countries who want to tax you on global net worth? Countries like Spain and Argentina, where I want to spend time but not having them peer into my world via FATCA and tax me on latent offshore holdings.
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You seem to have the same myopic vision problem with this new tax law as that American lawyer in Bangkok who does youtube videos has, you spend 16 minutes here just dancing around the elephant in the room without addressing it. This would be a great video if you were just simply addressing the expats who were either business owners within Thailand, or people who had ongoing business operations in their home country or elsewhere around the world, and your audience given those parameters would account for roughly 5% of fulltime expats on retirement extension of stay visas within Thailand. So my question is quite simple, why are you and anyone else for that matter who are talking about these radical changes in the Thai tax system, so afraid to directly address the 95% of expats who have extension of stay retirement visas in Thailand. The vast majority of "retirement visa" holders in Thailand, are people who DO NOT work in, or own a business in Thailand or anywhere else in the world for that matter, and whether they have a retirement income of $1200/mo. or $12,000/mo., for the most part that retirement income is derived from State Pensions, company pensions, IRA's, and annuities, all of which have been funded with "after tax" money throughout the recipients lifetime. When they retire to Thailand they are required to move roughly $25,000 (800,000 thb) from their home country savings and set up a bank account in Thailand, and then every year they are ALL required to move another $25, 000 from their home country bank account over to a Thai bank account in order to qualify for the extension of stay, however with this new law that $25,000 (in remittances) that these retirees bring over will now be taxed at 20%, so in addition to the 90 day reporting hassle and the Chinese fire drill every year at immigration, as of Jan. 1 2024, these expat retirees will now be forced to hire a Thai tax person and every year fill out a Thai tax return and remit $5,000 to the Thai government for the privilege of living in and spending their hard earned life savings within Thailand. Should the Thai government NOT come out and clarify this new law, as only pertaining to Thai citizens with foreign sources of income, or foreign nationals who spend over 180 days within Thailand, and either make a living from Thailand (blogging, youtube, ebay ect.) or have a remote job/business back in their home country which they earn gross income from, and for some reason is not taxed by the home country, then throughout 2024 I think you will begin to see a mass exodus of expats from Thailand (my WAG would be somewhere between 60-70%), thereby putting thousands of small Thai businesses who cater to expat areas, out of business, as well as the thousands of construction workers who build condos and homes in expat areas, out of work, and all of this will be happening right when a worldwide recession begins. The Thai government has had plenty of time since their Sept. 15th announcement, to make clarifications about this new law, and yet they have not done so, perhaps they think that they would lose face if they did, or perhaps the bureaucrats in charge of tax policy never took a class in economics, because if they had, then they would know that when you tax something you get less of it NOT more of it, and when you attempt to tax after tax Dollars, then you have an army of people you will piss off, who justifiably will have righteous indignation. Sorry for the length of my comment, but I think you get the gist, so when you are ready to address the 95% of expats who will be negatively affected by this vaguely written edict, then I think you will get a youtube video that will get a massive audience as well as likes!
I think he's spot on. I agree that approx 95% of expats living in Thailand would leave. I am one of every expat I've spoken to. I understand when expats say it's so ridiculous it won't happen but we are only a few weeks away and the silence from those in charge is becoming ominous.
At first I think about lose face but after I find local news (yep , I am local) and thing got more complicated because revenue department have to consider almost reconstruct tax system for this change , local investors have lot of problem with it so minister of finance aka PM have to setup new committee to research about this thing and it need a bit of time especially time for parliamentary process. Recent estimates this tax right now , they think to limited to 15% as maximum so it may be not worse as you think. For business tax , In fact they pretty cheaper than income tax (35% vs 20 %) so it's unlikely to be topic if he know about it first.
I do not understand the 2% tax on 1mln USD earnings Andrew mentioned a few times here. Anyway, this wi cost Thailand some foreigners, thats for sure imo.
Simple - if you earn $1m via a non-Thailand based company (assume its a business in HK, UAE etc with zero corporation tax), but you only remit $100k to Thailand a year to live on, you pay 20% (ish) tax on what you brought into Thailand thats $20k total, so 2% of your total profits of $1m. The other $900k you made needs to stay 'offshore'. Thailand have a 'remittance' based tax system - what you 'remit' to Thailand (send into the country) is taxed, not what money sits outside Thailand.
@@adams9533 OK, wait this is interesting. So……if I bring in enough money into Thailand before 1st of JAN…… (i live cheap, no worries) and I live from that money……. I can still receive dividends from my holding company tax free as long as I keep the money outside of Thailand?
still not clear because of my bad english: if i just sending my savings from another countries to my Thai bank account, and living here more than 180 days per year, is it taxable? what will happens if im not filling any forms? how usually people do? for example im sending 1 million baht to my account for buying car or property, i have to pay tax?
so what i gather is because Thailand economy is not picking up post covid because they are a tourist based market which haven't recovered they are looking to squeeze money out off long term expats
It will be 10 years before Thailand recovers. There are empty storefronts in every village and city. Rona devastated Thailand. Not the actual virus, but the evils done in response (like every country).
The Reason the Thailand tourist economy is not picking up, is the Thai government publicly and explicitly said that they do not want any more poor tourists or backpackers, they only want Rich tourists. That is the policies that they put in place and which have had these effects
Thailand is flipp flopp with everything.....! I do not understand why even have a parliament (and they have 2). Policy, law proposals are all discussed by department heads. Fishery can have plenty opinion about Immigration (which is Police). But not all immigration issues bcs Embassies falls under the Justice department and they have their rules. So now you have to deal with..... Justice Department (Embassy visa issues). Immigration which is Police and law enforcement. And perhaps some other 38 departments with equal rings to address any issue..., especially in the Bangkokpost.... so everybody can get really confused.....! Pay some money.... I help you Mr......!
why stay in a country like Thailand that has this flip-flop system at all? If your an exspat you do not need all this stress and hassel right? l did live in Thailand for many years and l had a good pension from my home country and all of this went into Thailand, and in most of EU there are rules like I have to pay full tax the first year after I have moved out of Norway, then I only pay 15% tax afterwards. And I have to open a bank account in the country I'm moving to in order to have my pension paid there with tax relief, if I keep my Norwegian bank account and choose to withdraw my pension in Norway then yes I have to pay full tax which is much higher and I lose a lot of money on this, so here you can forget about everyone who has the same system as us and this applies to most people in Europe also so l got smart and l move to the philippines and it was totaly diffrent, no hassel at all, no stress with visa and no tax at all, so why stay in Thailand at all. l did go to the Philippines and it was 10 times better, no stress and hassel with visa no tax, and this is what you want as an exspat
Yes, I agree with you also. I lived in Cebu in 2008/ 2009..I've been in Thailand almost 2 years..really love it here ,but ,between immigration and this new tax law ,I am ready to go back to Philippines. Maybe Davao City this time
Hi, if I may ask you stated savings as equal to earned income, please clarify for me and all of us.I for example live in Thailand for more than 190 days now my savings is taxed as income, thanks
A friend of mine is about to move from Taiwan to Thailand to teach English online believing that it won’t be taxable as it’s not earned in the country, is that now untrue?. What if you are retired and draw money by ATM from another country, is that traceable as taxable income?
Thailand has tax treaties with a large number of countries. In the example of the US citizen bringing in 100,000 USD into Thailand from their Singapore account as a tax resident of Thailand, they might not have to pay taxes on that money because they already paid taxes to the United States. I'm no accountant, but this is my understanding of the rules.
If you have already paid taxes ... yes ... you're probably right. But 1) there's not only americans, other countries don't have a passport taxation 2) if you have a foreign company, or make financial profits on stocks or crypto , for the moment you pay zero taxes This is why you have so many digital nomads in Thailand ... they own foreign companies , let's say registered in Dubai for example , and pay zero taxes. Another point : Even if they won't tax twice , everynoe will have to prove that his money has already been taxed ... makes a lot of paper works for some people.
It doesn't always work that way. For instance, the US-Thailand tax treaty states that if you are resident of Thailand and you pay taxes on interest earned on savings in the US, then Thailand can also tax that money (same for cap gains). Yes, you can deduct what you pay to Thailand from your US taxes but it could be more. I don't know how much Thailand would tax them, but I did read the treaty. Also, filing tax returns in Thailand and figuring all this out would be a pain. But the common belief that "I paid taxes on that income in my home country so it's automatically tax free in Thailand because there is a tax treaty" is definitely false.
@@Fuk_Zat_Tek Just pay little bit of tax on remittance as Andrew said. Keep most of your income outside. I don't see any issue with paying tax. Unless you live on budget.
The cost of living in Thailand is 20% of EU Or USA and the excellent climate, food, beaches, culture etc are added benefits but it's cheap even if you do pay all the taxes 😮😮😮🎉🎉🎉
I think you are exactly right. They don’t want their country to become a place that drives up the cost of living so high for the locals that their standard of living significantly suffers.
Yep it never was a tax heaven just a lower tax country because Thailand doesn’t want foreigners in there economy earning money in there economy and not also paying there taxes they just want foreigners to contribute to the economy while you reside in Thailand like there own citizens do the advantage is u will still get a better quality of life and public services like healthcare the big disadvantage I see is many future foreigners won’t look to go to move to Thailand if they do they won’t be their long term because of this change and so that’s another reason why Thailand is implementing this to not have an influx of mass amount of people migrating to there country which I’m not surprised just like every other Asian country there going to always put there citizens first there not going to let no other ethnicity group come in and own all the land and start and have businesses their because it will push out the Thai people
...except if they're Chinese. Most Thai people would gladly let foreigners stay long term and invest but the ruling elite want to keep everything to themselves. Many of these elites are of Chinese origin and so they welcome Chinese influence.
He, I will like to know if a person only living on his pension, which’s the person have pairs Tax of in his home country, will there be any Tax for the money he bring to Thailand. As many people do not work and live in Thailand, will these people be paying Tax
I'm in a similar boat. If I snd money there to park into the account and then travel there to spend and vacation less than 180 days. All that money accumulated won't be taxed I believe since there is no triggering of the tax residency status. This is my understanding.....
If I am not sure that I will be able to protect the money I transfer to Thailand to buy a condo against the double taxation (i.e. that there is a clear and reliable way to prove that the money has already been taxed in my home country) than good luck expecting me to buy a condo in Thailand after spending 180 days there 🤷 The construction industry in tourist areas will feel the impact for sure.
Chances are they will provide further clarification that this does NOT apply to remittances for non-working non-thai residents of Thailand. Otherwise, this will significantly batter their real estate industry and the retirement related industry.
This will be intresting times here in Thailand, because i think that many people will do borderruns to Cambodia to take out cash there, and take it into thailand. You can bring in 20.000 USD in Cash into Thailand whout declaring it, so it might be more cash flowing around in Thailand next year with all those people living there on multiple entry visas.
That's exactly what I was thinking, but once you come back into Thailand, you have to convert the USD into Baht which also gets you pegged. I don't yet live in Thailand so I'm not sure how much the average conversion rate is.
@@ardentenquirer8573 it is all based on the total number of days you reside in Thailand. If you live greater than 180 (in total) then yes you will be classified as a taxation resident!
This does not affect countries with tax agreements as Norway have with Thailand. Everyone need pay tax for your pension in Thailand if you stay there over 180 days in a calendar year, with a tax agreement you split it and you can reduce your total tax even if taxable to 2 countries.
Nomad Capitalist, I am sure that you are aware that many foreign (expat) nationals living in Thailand on O & OA Visas (retirement) do not have a tax id & have no legal requirement to be registered with the Thai Revenue Dept. Without a tax number, how do you think the Thai Revenue Dept will collect the correct percentage of tax?
Right, but the Thai tax authority could simply start requiring all residents to get tax IDs - same as Thai citizens. Plus some speculate that Thai immigration could start requiring proof of tax ID / tax return filings to renew visas, etc.
@@jayman4795 Assuming you already pay taxes in the US, UK or lots of other countries with existing tax treaty agreements with Thailand, you won't be double taxed.
@@jimcullen3911 I don’t think this is true. If you live more than 180 days in the country, you are a tax resident. You pay taxes in Thailand, and use that offset what you owe in the states.
So I was planning on retiring in Thailand in few years. My SSN will be approx $2500 per month and I was planning on bringing over an extra $2000 from investments. My understanding is the SSN money is safe from double taxation. But the 2K x 12 months = 24K x 30% = $7200 in Thai taxes. That might be a deal killer for us. My wife is Filipino. Might have to live 6 months in Phils and 6 months in Thailand. Not optimal but doable. Still don't like the curveball. In the long run, this ends up hurting the Thai economy IMHO.
What is never discussed in announcements is how much care and support expacts give to thai partners, their whole family , and friends. The government does not offer social security to unemployed. Luckily expacts cover some problems by supporting some Thai people. Its not like Thailand needs to support expats. Not sure why the disrespect occurs.
what if you keep your US bank accounts and simply use an ATM to draw out money for monthly or daily expenses. How can they tax ATM draws from a US bank?
Will they tax foreign pensions and social security? Under many bilateral tax treaties, foreign pensions are taxed in the country of origin only, so need to check each country’s tax treaty with Thailand.
The Pitcairn Islands have no income taxes of any sort (for individuals and companies). Beekeeping as a career could be an interesting business there. There are currently no charges for land for settlement on Pitcairn Island. New migrants who have been approved for settlement can apply to the Pitcairn Island Council for land on which to build a home within 6 months of arrival at Pitcairn. You will be picked up from the ship and welcomed with open arms. The most remote island in the world has a heart. The nature there is absolutely untouched. Something for adventurers who want to build something. The sale of postage stamps, coins, and local products such as honey to passing ships and via online shopping sites brings cash income, as does tourism. The island also receives significant budgetary aid from the British government.
Sadly the „Bounty“ island has a bad image because of the past sexual abuse, crimes… Rather uninteresting for private individuals, no real infrastructure, not much to do there... If you have health problems, the nearest hospital is very far away and difficult to reach... It would be best to rent or sell the island to an investor who would build a hotel complex similar to The Brando in Tetiaroa. Only very wealthy tourists come there (no mass tourism) and great importance is attached to preserving the natural ecosystem. Then you could also build a corresponding infrastructure, as well as a flight connection via seaplane.
I just got the 20 year elite visa and planned on moving to Thailand within 1-2 years from now. Question for anyone who may know: Say I rent a condo with a one year contract, and I store some of my belongings there year round, BUT I physically only stay in Thailand for less than 180 days, will I still have to pay this income tax? In other words, is this law only applicable if my ass is in Thailand for more than 180 days, or can they use the fact that my possessions are there throughout the year to make me pay this tax? I'm guessing I should be ok if I'm not psychically there, but I want to make sure.
"this law only applicable if my ass is in Thailand for more than 180 days" - you wouldn't be a tax resident for the purposes of this levy. But on another RU-vidr interviewing a lawyer about this...he does bring up the spectre of what happens when Thai immigration stops you and asks, "why are you returning here over and over for six months"
There is no way to control the flow of money in and out of Thailand. Expats will just use a US Credit Card with no foreign transaction fees. And you can easily get one NOT in your name if the Thais are going to track your spending. Cash? How many trips abroad do you take in a year? Each one is good for $10,000 cash. Or, like the Mainlanders, use trade to export (or import) money.
This only aplay for you that is an American Mate all of the rest need to open a bank acount in Thailand to get out your pension otherwise we must pay full tax in our home country new EU rules like me from Norway have to do so also even if we are not part of EU. So do you think only Americans will stay in a contry like Thailand now? All the rest of us will now go to the Philippines and spend our pension there insted
