Lots of talk about individual situations, but let's stop to give some props to this lawyer. This guy knows his shit. Refreshing to hear someone so competent.
My aussie pension or capital gain is not taxed by Australian government. So the thai government is kidding themselves if they think I'm going to pay them tax.
@@DarkoFitCoachin time they will find a way. Generative AI is very good with turning data into information. if they cannot determine source of income, they will just treat it as taxable income. simple. then you are forced to proof otherwise.
@@josephkeith6954 thats exactly my point. WHAT income will they tax exactly? If i have my retirement visa and 800k baht in account as requirement. Then what exact income are they taxing? You mean what i spend each month to live on? How in the hell would they know what i spend if i dont have it in a thai bankaccount and use cash and creditcard?
I have been planning my Thailand retirement at the end of this year and living off my australian superanuation for 6 years. Appears that I will now loose 35% of my income to the Thai government and I will definitely need to reconsider.
@@Bansansook2 Thai government has categorically stated that any money that you can show was in your bank or assets prior to 31/12/2023 is not liable for taxation when transferred to Thailand.
Nice job Chris. Best video I've seen so far on this topic. Torontonian here still contemplating retiree abroad, just working out how to go about it. Your vids are the most helpful.
Thai tax authorities will not be experts on Canadian tax, US tax, UK tax, German tax etc etc. They won't care Canadian TFSA nor the US Roth IRA is tax free gains - how can they keep track of all the credits, exemptions etc of each country? how will they determine the funds I want to transfer to Thailand were from my after tax decades vrs last year's earnings? this is all absurd.
It’s a complete mess, as you said it’s very hard to know all the foreign tax rules, and 1 in 1000 tax agents will understand the rules, especially on what was earned before or after Jan 1 2024 !
U have to do that. It's u who has to fill out a Tax return here with receipts. U will get a Tax ID number here the next time u have to go for the 90 days "probation office" or when u need another 1year Visa, or u won't get a new Visa.
absolutely impossible to police .....people here are ridiculously paranoid from years of following "the man". Just don't have a Thai bank account or at least don't dump large sums. You don't even need a Thai bank account with the new DT visa
I guess I’ll write off Thailand as a retirement destination, my pension and SSi will be taxed already in my home country, so now I’ll have the added concern about what equivalent of a capital gains tax because my pension/SSi will put me in the top earners in Thailand. I’m glad I am still in the process of figuring out where to retire to but it can’t be Thailand, will visit but won’t be there to stay . Thanks for the information, keep up the good work 😊
If you live in UK and retire with gov pension you get increases every year this year think it was 8%, once you live in Thailand more than 180 days there's little or no increases , personally I would not stay more than 180 days
@@DarkoFitCoach I looked today, if uk gov has an anagreement then you get anual rise on your pension and if not you dont. The USA is on list, alot of European country's are and phillipennes is too, but I can't see Thailand
Gotta say I like this lawyer. He's very good at explaining. With regards to the couple who sell their house and make $1m capital gain, I think Chris, the point you might have missed is that (so far) Thailand is not taxing GLOBAL INCOME. It's only taxing the AMOUNT brought to Thailand. So it sounds to me like even if they sold their house this year if they only brought in $30k of that to Thailand, they will get taxed on $30k, not $1M. Secondly, let's say next year they bring in $150k. Let's say they want to buy a condo in Thailand. Well now that $150k is part of the $1M earned in the previous year. It would be interesting to know if the whole amount would noe be tax-free because it was earned in a previous tax year.
CASE STUDY #1: My understanding, individuals from the UK, have the opportunity (unlike the U.S.A.) to cease paying taxes to their country’s treasury. One will assume this will have a significant impact on most, if not all of these similarly classified individuals. Unfortunately, this may necessitate an exodus for some, resulting in less investment, purchases, taxes… in the Kingdom.
Not true. Before i left the UK i asked that very thing. HMRC sent me a caustic reply saying that all income in the UK including pensions is classed as taxable. I even got a form from my UK bank that i had to fill in and get notarised here in Thailand stating that i was a UK tax resident.
Interesting so if buying a Thai property from home country bank savings and been in country < 180d you avoid this tax issue. Then out of Thailand > 180d. Return and apply for resident visa (if lucky to get it), should be able to avoid any shenanigans tax analysis. Continue to hold accounts in home country and pay bills by credit/debit cards, caveat to that would be any payments required from a Thai bank account. On that latter point transferring savings from home country to Thai bank account, how you prove that it was savings (from past work as your now not economically active) and not earned interest on those savings that's paying for a bill or large item e.g. a car. That's the complex part and may mean it's easier to live in multiple countries (home or other in region country) if you can afford to do so.
What if the funds are owned by a foreign LLC (possibly owned by a foreign Trust) ? It's not personal income. The problem is, Visa might require you to disclose personal income. Under a certain threshold, no Visa for you. This is a statement you made, and everything you say can be used against you. Therefore, you will be taxed of this declared income.
It would really help to understand the types of income that may not be taxed. He touched on securities....is it just the sale of securities or are dividends also included? More details on income types and/or exemptions would be a big help. Thanks mate....doing a great job!
Since double taxation treaties prevent 1 being dinged twice, should we not have embassies clarifying things? Email them. Put pressure on them. If we are going to have Thai bureaucrats reading these treaties (are they written in Thai too) & adjudicating, just imagine how one would prove them wrong given their propensity for not liking ceiticisms!bIt seems to me that embassies should provide clarity.
When I pay in my 800,000Bt which I am required to retain in a Thai bank to facilitate a retirement visa, will it be subject to tax in Thailand (at 35% seemingly as is above the 500,000Bt threshold)? Tea-Money on steroids, if so!!!
What mechanisms do they have to determine the type of income you receive from foreign sources? The LTR visa is governed by Royal Decree 732, Section 40 of their revenue code, which grants a tax exemption. This supersedes any provisions in the revenue code. Thoughts/Comments? Additionally, my understanding from this video is that if or when I expatriate or wire funds to my "own" Thai bank account, I will be taxed. However, if I stay less than 180 days, I will not be taxed. There are also no taxes if those funds are only from US Social Security (per the treaty between the US and Thailand). My takeaway from this video is that if I wire money to a friend for my use, or as a gift I will not be taxed, as it was not sent to my "own" bank account. Taxed at 17% if you are on LTR Skilled Professionals per Royal Decree 732: Also, per Royal Decree 732, EXPAT TAX EXEMPTIONS for other categories include wealthy global citizens, retirees, and remote workers who enjoy tax exemptions on overseas income brought into Thailand.
If you go on Education visa and are expat on fixed income from US but don’t put that money in Thai bank if I watched correctly you are not taxed but I will still have to have long term Thai residence taxation filing. I’m sorry I just started looking into moving there in July of next year when not tourist time to get more affordable housing. So with buying a condo there with US monies it’s taxed in Thailand?
Seems to many hoops to try and jump through between the Visas and now this is not the way I want to spend my life worrying about. Why don't all country just have a sale tax for all. Stop the bureaucracy and you wouldn't have a deficit.
what a confusing definition of 'repatriated' funds. Funds transferred *back* to the residence country? Meaning ... earned outside of thailand (say in the US), transferred into thailand, but then transferred back to the US- only the portion transferred back to the US is taxed?
Making it more difficult for foreigners to stay long-term in Thailand. and this could be bad for the economy. Yet, this is what most OECD countries do and understandable in that sense. Still there seems to be a loophole that the money directly sent to your business partner or a seller, without having it in your bank account first, would not be counted as your income but your spending. So, for a big amount, I would consider such an option. There could even be a shady business help you do this. I think they left this loophole intentionally for the benefit of the very rich that wields the political power. So, I have a hunch that they may not be in a rush to close this loophole and that is good for me for a selfish reason.
They should of wait so much more for this.. in 2024 building a business there with staff is one of the biggest challenge.. last thing you want is paying too much on top of the rest of difficulties you must face on a pro level.. i think they just signed some type of limitations to a beautiful country who was just starting to raise.
Thanks for the video Chris. Luca seems to be on top of the new interpretations / rules. It seems you will be able to “drive a truck” through these new rules if you plan ahead and take necessary action. Also, as an accountant, I can’t see how the Thai tax authorities will be able to efficiently and consistently implement these new rules. So, my initial conclusion is … those with a lot of assets will never pay any taxes in Thailand and those who do not may get trapped into paying some amount of Thailand taxes. This is Painful, as expats receive virtually no benefits from Thailand other than the privilege to reside here for as long as their visa is valid. Expect a reduction in future expats to Thailand and a reduction in time spent in Thailand for existing expats. What a cluster f&@k!!
Yea on surface it would seem fairly easy to enforce. If money hits a thai bank account and there’s no tax return to explain the source, then seize the account. However if there is a tax return with “proof” documents, how will they verify the validity of, let’s say, a foreign bank statement? Do they have enough man power to call every foreign bank or entity to verify the information? For example, someone can photoshop a bank statement that shows that they have $1M in savings earned prior to Jan 2024. Since savings is not taxable, the expat would never have to pay taxes.
@@theamazingjustin it will be done by AI. And you will get a form letter in the mail in Thailand, requiring you to either file your expat tax return or assess a penalty for not filing.
As Thai, I disapprove this tax laws. The government should encourage wealthy and well-behaved foreigners to move to Thailand for work, business, semi/full-retirement, tourism, etc. We Thai have been subjected to contribute more taxes to the new land and property tax and it has been tripled for a few years. I used to pay 40k and I paid 140k this year. The government has no ability to earn revenue smartly and efficiently.
@@heisenberg1271 They will know because tax information is shared. Once the money comes into your Thai bank account you will have to account for where it come from, and if you leave it in your home state bank account, THEY will want to know where the money came from.
@@heisenberg1271 To be honest, I personally don't know. If they are really desperate, they will search for. However, I believe they are relying on your honesty and how you summit your documents. As a foreigner, you have got an option to leave, and they cannot do anything. I do disagree with this taxation, yet I encourage you to do the right thing and search the best way possible.
I have an Australian Superannuation pension account that I contributed an inheritance into from my parents in 2020, and the years following as per fund contribution guidelines, fully taxed which I can move 500,000 bht to thailand per year to live on. Will this be taxed as an eligible pension, and is INHERITENCES taxed by thai government or gifting to my thai wifes bank account ?? Thankyou if you can advise..
I also have read about various allowances..? Over Age 65 Exemption - 190,000 50% deduction for pension income, up to 100k - 100,000 The above totals 350,000 Baht. In addition, the first 150,000 Baht of income is zero rated for tax. These things combined mean that the first 500,000 Baht of income received in Thailand each year, will not be taxable. Further deductions and allowances exist for a spouse, a partner, children, health and life insurance, school fees, mortgage costs and many other things. The following links describe deductions and allowances further. Are thes allowances available ??
@seancanaway1131 Replacing pensioners receiving government pensions with retired CEOs makes way more sense. In the old days when standards of living were low, foreign retirement money coming into the country was good. But as the local standard of living increased, foreign pensions became increasingly unimportant and at some point those people will be costing the country more than they are worth unless they are wealthy. The government would want the retired expat community to transition from government pensioners to wealthy business people and other high net worth individuals as Thai society develops. They don't want people living off social security to be moving to their country, they want millionaires to come instead. If you are going to have 100k expats, it is much better to have 100k retired CEOs than it is to have 100k retired postal workers.
@@Tugela60 thailand has 7000usd gdp per capita. Usa has over 81 000usd per capita. Thailand is a 3rd world country and even the lowliest pensioners from the west earn and bring in MORE then an average thai. For example the average pension for a dutchman is 3000euro net. Thats 120 000baht. Thats way more then what thais make. So conclusion is: you have no idea what u are saying
@@DarkoFitCoach That is changing. The value pensioners bring decreases as a country develops. You see that even now, where a lot of these working class pensioners are struggling with the cost of living. These people are adding literally nothing to the country, and that cohort will just grow over time.
I am a Canadian who moved permanently to Mexico in my retirement. I was thinking of giving Thailand a try to see if I could move there permanently, but this has changed my mind. If Thailand does not want me to live there and have me pump my money into its economy to help support Thai citizens, then I guess they are doing OK.
Don't waste your time in Thailand. Thais are racist and actually don't like foreigners. I lived there for years so I know the reality. You will never get the truth on scamtube. Just BS and feel good narratives made to sell ads.
@@R-uu7wo ya its true. and i really dont see how a person living off a bank card regardless of the income that funds it could ever seriously be flagged. seems like honor system only. i would see a clearl line of understanding if i wired 100k into a local bank and called that my living money or was getting monthly drops but the card thing to me seems too hard to enforce
This is the most informative video I have seen (all subjects, not just taxes) I have seen this entire year. Thanks for doing this. For 2024, I will spend less than 180 days here.
Politicians consistently enact impractical regulations. Eventually, they may come to realize that numerous expatriates could relocate to Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, and similar destinations.
I mean talk about losing Expat Income that helps stimulate the economy here... Wow. I just don't get it... In America we call this Liberal Social Democrats....
The Thai property market is already in a slump. That’s why the proposal regarding percentage increases for foreign ownership. Who in the right mind is going to transfer the purchase price of a new home or condo into the country when you can get slapped for another 25 to 30% of the purchase price. Thailand is cutting off its nose despite its face.
Greetings Chris, Thanks for the informative update. It seems to me that a country like Thailand that’s so dependent on tourism would construct their governmental policies to accommodate or promote expat residency and other various forms of liquidity influx into Thailand without so much bureaucracy related to taxation. There goes my plans to relocate to Thailand. Instead, I will redirect my life savings and - pensions elsewhere. Continue to enjoy life in Thailand Chris and I look forward to making good use of Thailand’s 180 day policy in the future. Thanks for sharing.
I don't think you have anything to worry about unless a worse leader who hates foreigners gets in office and nationalist sentiment rises. You just cannot transfer money into a Thai bank.
Taxation Without Representations! Thailand like many SE Asian countries want foreign money but do nothing to help foreigners when they have troubles. They have laws against us earning money inside their country but want to take the money we earn outside of their country! Help me help you I say! I will not put my money in a Thai bank! I will not buy property in Thailand because of this. I loved Thailand but not that much! Sorry! Let us know when they cave!
@danielerubini3434 Yeah this is becoming a trend in all of SE Asia, China is masivly doing it, VN starting July 1st 2024 is going to micromanage banks and people'ls money its all a mess for sure
@danielerubini3434yes, especially when inflation is here. Uneducated ministers proposing to raise taxes during this event will harm the economy when they think of only raising income for the government. Government should be in debt and continue to be in debt until inflation is over. To get inflation down, is to raise interest rates which they have not. Everything they are doing is wrong and the people will pay the price, voting people. Raise taxes or other revenue when inflation is Gone!
@@realpropertymangement7640 He was not specific when mentioning what is taxable. As someone who makes a 7 figure sum per year in USD he needs to be very specific.
Hey, it's too hot and/or rainy in Thailand for 6 months per year anyway. (Or too smokey). So I will simply stay in Thailand for less than 6 months, enjoy summers in Canada, and also avoid the whole tax headache...
No there not This is fear monger in order to collect a tax you need a I’d number Your not a citizen of Thailand You cannot work on a retirement visa go read the article from the Thai embassy web site
Did i hear that right? If you withdraw funds from ATM using overseas bank account or spend on overseas debit card its not considered repatriating funds to Thailand and therefore not subject to tax in Thailand. If thats true then there’s no need for any retired farang to pay tax in Thailand ever.
Some countries require you to deposit $ into a local bank account in order to get a long term visa. Not sure if Thailand does this. If they do require a local bank account, then anything coming into this account would be eligible for taxation
@@camiller4916 Yes, they could make a grab for the 800,000THB requirement for the retirement visa or if you got the visa because of your income, they'd know about that.
But there would be a need to explain to the BIB how you're living in Thailand on zero funds when it's time to renew your visa. I don't think this would work for long.
I pay rent and Lazada from my Thai bank account as well as avoid ridiculous atm fees for my us bank. I also live on a small island so much more cash based transactions compared to Bangkok.
No way would I continue retirement in Thailand now!! 170 days only, so who loses ...... me because i love Thailand ..... ALSO ..... Thailand as losing 6 months ($20,000) spending into their economy.
@@luxuryseaviewvillas6744 I'm sure Thailand would rather have 40K spent in country than 20K. Also, do not need 800k THB sitting in Thai bank anymore. Just saying, have a great day and thanks for your response.
I attended the seminar by a prominent accounting firm in Bangkok on the subject and their information was not consistent with those presented here. Specifically, the accounting firm said that if you’re overseas income was not assessable in Thailand, for example because it consisted of a state sponsored pensionor protected by a dual taxation agreement, you did not have to file a tax return with respect to that income. Perhaps you can get to the bottom of this conflict?
Leave Thailand and visit. I spent 4-7k/mo there. They’ve lost that revenue for several months now. Imagine the reporting hassle and the lawyer fees to make sure the filing is correct. I’m sure Chris will keep pumping move to Thailand. Dealing with lawyers and filing papers are not paradise.
@@jpatter123 remember TIT. This is thailand. Dont make any big conclusions yet. Thailand changes laws as the wind blows. So give it some time to see what this actually entails and how it pans out. Thailand has had hundreds of laws that were cancelled
Multiply this by 100s of thousands of expats saying NOPE! Not going to deal with yet another hassle after all the other hassles of dealing with Thailand immigration endless hoops to jump through (plus constant fees)
It's easy and cheaper to live in Vietnam and Malaysia. I get 90 days on arrival. Vietnam requires online visa prior. I've spent a month in each place to get a feel for where to live. The Philippines is next.
@@alias_EP Not every country is broke like the Thai government... Thailand's GDP is growing so slow (slowest in SE Asia) that they have to push higher taxes to minimize the gov deficit. Malaysia and Vietnam is growing lightyears faster than Thailand's economy sadly.
I am a US citizen and only receive / only repatriate funds from a US Government pension - into Thailand. I consulted a Thai Tax Attorney and was told that there is NO REQUIREMENT for me to file a tax return ( or get a THAI TAX IDENTIFICATION NUMBER )- because I was telling them that all of the funds that I will be moving into Thailand are 100% exempt from taxation in Thailand ( based on the DTA between the USA and Thailand ) He did tell me that ( in the VERY UNLIKELY case that I would ever be audited - I should be able to prove that the funds that I had repatriated were based on my US Government pension ). Thank God for DTAs.
The information you have received is the ultimate truth for US pensioners. There is no tax liability. All the other spins are just paranoid interpretations by those that have an agenda. Either they have a service to sell or they like creating chaos. Those that wish to curtail the overcrowding caused by more expats arriving would also have a stake in the misinformation game. The government would never target long term residents who maintain sizable deposits in Thai banks per visa regulations. That would be financial suicide. The internet is a hotbed of both good and bad information. Don’t buy in to the paranoia.
The point is the DTA does not cover the difference between the tax laws / rates in one country to another. It only allows credits to prevent double taxation. As the lawyer said, u need to work out the differences by filing a tax return if u reside.
@@davidalf5159 The DTA between the USA and Thailand specifically says..."that USA government pensions are only taxable in the USA" ( Thailand is incapable of taxing them at all. ) I realize that with some "earnings" or pensions - it may be necessary to file a tax return and that depending on which tax rate is higher / lower - there may be some tax owed in Thailand. ( but when a DTA specifcally /explicity states that certain forms of income are ONLY TAXABLE IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN ( the USA in this case ) - then Thai Tax Attorneys have advised me that there are no filing requirements.
Number of new tax agents in high expat areas is going to go way up!! Between your visa agent and lawyers and tax agents and the taxes good luck. Hello Vietnam 😊
LOL Vietnam? Today July 1st VN jjust locked down the banking system and is now micromanaging the people's money and also expats with bank accounts. This isn't JUST Thailand doing this. China has also been doing it for the lats 9 months.. Asia is doing everything it can to F over any and all tourist and expats
That’s a smart move. Diversifying into non traditional assets can definitely help. I’m also looking at international stocks since some global markets are showing resilience despite the FED’s gloomy outlook
What Expat in their right mind would file Thai tax forms when they file in their home country ? With bilateral tax treaties and “your ACB of investments AT DEC 31, 2023” you’ll only be bringing in “non taxable income”. Thai tax authorities enforcing nebulous tax provisions on individual Expats will be a sight to see…like nailing jelly to a wall. Thai accountants/lawyers are likely “pissed” that Thai visa agents are getting their share…and they want in. 😅 I have a good friend who has left Thailand due to this FUD. There will be a lot more taking their money and running to “friendlier jurisdictions” should this not get cleared up soon 😢.
Germany also got a DTA since 1967 but I pay already a taxoffice in Germany and dont want to pay another in Thailand where nothing is clear and even regulations that are clear now , may be changed in tomorrow. I heard from an German pensionist, 80 years thinking to commit suicide because he can't stand this unclear future. The only thing that's clear is, staying under 180 days in Thailand avoids paying a second time taxes in Thailand. Lucky Laos, lucky cambodia lucky Vietnam, lucky Germany put poor Thailand, which I love so much lost a lot of VAT for 6 month.
For me the issue isn't paying taxes, the issue is the amount. 17% on top of U.S. tax is insane! Drop the tax rate to 5% (making up a number) on income only and you'll see people come back.
You only have to look at the comments on this video to understand the obvious self harm thailand has inflicted on itself with this tax change. Thai tax advisors are rubbing their hands together right now, taking advantage of all this fear and uncertainty. So much potential extra business. Give it a couple of years, there will be incentives on offer for retirees and investors because of the lack of money coming into thailand compared to previous years. They will eventually realise they need to encourage people to bring money into thailand and not withhold money due to fear and uncertainty. An incredible act of self harm.
that is Thai Government they have no idea. Instead of looking at a possible other way they come after the people who are giving the Kingdom so much injection to GDP. They get our income via spending on goods and services. This stinks WEF doing. Let's not forget, the Thai Government take lease payments for the condos we buy / accommodation, 51% ownership of business etc. Now they want our income. With the cost of living in Thailand going upwards soon it will be the same price living in Thailand then our own home countries.
they had people willing to come here and spend tons of money year over year and now they're scaring them away. total foolishness. I expect a reversal also even if they could figure out how to enforce it.
@@HairyPixels So true. The effect of this is already visible. Factories are closing all over thailand. 52% of GDP was foreign investment, would be interesting to see what the current rate is (not published yet). The damage will become more visible over time I'm sure.
This is to make work for tax accountants and admins. Too bad they can not just charge more for visas and avoid the HUGE hassel and fear of having to report to the tax man. RETIREES HAVE BEEN TAXED ENOUGH
179 days in Thailand to not become a tax resident,then have to find another country for the other 6 months,might not be such a good retirement choice now for many.Employ an accountant,lawyer,90 day reporting ,visas and possible tax on pension might knock the land of smiles off some people’s faces.
Neighbouring Laos 🇱🇦 Not retired, but working remotely. Visa options in Laos are super easy and nobody gives a damn about paying taxes at all, especially not if you have foreign income @@phuketeer
Time to do the trifecta. Live in thailand 179 days, move to Vietnam for some months then a little time in Cambodia then Thailand This is going to hurt sales of condos. It is going to hurt Thailand in the number of Expats who decide to move here. I think it's gonna hurt their economy and many ways if they enforce it.
hope there are some websites where people can do condo swap... like... I am 4 months here, can I go to your neighbor country condo and go get in mine... to save costs... cannot pay rent in both countries... not me at least
This was my original plan but decided to stick it out this first year and see what happens. I did spend a month in Phnom Penh though and really enjoyed it.
I knew about that strategy from nomad capitalist but I was too new at this to do it. While I was going through the process of getting the visa and I was already over here. I realized that that is what I should have done because I do want to spend time in a lot of other countries and not just Thailand. If I had known Thailand was going to change their tax laws, I would have definitely done that. I ruled out Spain and Portugal because of these type of laws. But it's not too late whenever my year is over I might still do that
@@LD-yq7cla new business opportunity for someone! Excellent idea to create a website to connect people and help orchestrate seamless moving from one se asian country to another to get around tax and visa requirements and still have home bases
Not really.. You can always leave. If you're staying, you're agreeing to pay the cost of staying, including the taxes. You're paying some taxes anyway.
Great video. My case is exactly what you covered with one of your cases. As far as I understand the best thing to do to avoid taxation in Thailand (if your domestic taxation would be lower or even zero) is to stay less than 180 days.
Yep. Spend the other six months in Japan, Bali, Vietnam, etc. The overreach by taxation is total theft and always brought about by leftists and globalists. Global communism is the end goal for the ones orchestrating this madness behind the scenes. Looney leftists love taxing the workers. The should not be allowed to govern anyone. Over taxation ruins all free nations. Every single time.
Hi Chris, and everyone…. I’m an LTR Visa holder. After watching this vid I reached out to BOI for clarification. The LTR Visa Unit replied: “Greeting from LTR Visa Unit. There is no official announcement from the Revenue Department regarding changes to the tax rules for LTR Visa benefits. Please do not trust rumors or unconfirmed news from sources such as the Bangkok Post.” Not that things can’t go sideways, but the LTR visa was promoted with a number of benefits, one being NO TAX ON GLOBAL INCOME, and a Personal Tax flat rate of 15% on taxable income earned IN Thailand. Let’s see where this goes…
As a foreigner that regularly pumps money into the Thai economy and lives here, I would leave Thailand immediately (with respect) if they attempt to tax my American income
Be prepared to leave then, my friend. New tax proposal (in addition to this video's content) is in the works to now tax ALL foreign income, regardless whether it is brought into Thailand or not. I just found out about it a few days ago. You can check Siam Legal and other sources. As an American as well, this is especially murky since we're 1) already taxed globally, 2) not a CRS nation (so how would they verify income?) and 3) allowed to claim FEIE with the IRS if the criteria are met. I feel for other nations since their citizens will absolutely get rocked by this, but as Americans we need to pay close attention since there are special circumstances for us here, and I'm really not sure how Thailand is going to navigate that....
I want to thank you for taking the time to write this. Insightful and makes me disappointed to hear it because I just signed a 12 month lease here and it’s instantly not cworth to stay here in my opinion it if its formally enacted/initiated
@@justinccross I don't know if it's wise to give up hope quite yet -- there's a lot involved here. My flight over is in January but I haven't signed any leases or anything, so I'm at a point now where I need to see some additional details, and I'm sure you feel the same. Let us consider this: The IRS allows FEIE if you can pass either the Physical Presence or Bona Fide residency test, basically both of which say that you've been out of the country and on the ground (literally - time in the air/flights doesn't count if you're audited) in another country. If you earn less than the FEIE cutoff amount, I think for 2024 that's 126,000, then you can effectively reduce your taxable income to zero. In kind, if you earn 136,000, then you'd be taxed at 10,000. 146,000 you'd be taxed for 20,000 of income, etc. Whatever the cutoff is for that year, if you're under it then you effectively have 0 taxable income. This is where it will get hairy for us US citizens - what will Thailand require as verification of income? Will they base it off what you file for your taxes? Are they going to tax the difference relative to their tax brackets? Is the DTA going to prevent this in its entirely such that Thailand won't even bother with US citizens since we aren't a CRS nation? If you're not familiar, CRS is kind of a "FATCA lite" (in a very loose sense) that other nations have adopted - "Common Reporting Standards" for things like verifying financial/banking/taxation information, etc. USA is not a CRS nation. Therefore, Thailand wouldn't have that medium at their disposal to verify anything about us. It's really very murky how Thailand would verify anything from us outside of the IRS short of demanding to see bank statements, paystubs, etc., but even then, how would they know if you're providing all the banking and/or pay information (if you had multiple sources)? This is so nebulous for us that right now it's hard to say what will come of it. I'm going to throw up a little in my mouth with this next statement: the IRS may actually be *good* here in this instance, in that it is very greedy and jealous and really doesn't want outside sources hammering us for money (it wants as much of it for itself from us as it can get). So it's a shield, in a sense. Question is how Thailand will attempt to circumvent that against us (and it will likely try). So, so messy. And again, I definitely feel for what our friends from other nations are going to get hit with - we've been dealing with it all along now, and it's never a fun time. Part of life I guess, though. Anyway, hope this helped a little bit. Too early to tell one way or the other but it mandates attention so that we don't get caught unawares. Good luck in your journey my friend.
Thailand benefitting from tax on foreign income should result in more rights for those individuals in Thailand in that case. This is what happens in the countries they are looking at following. People won’t stick around paying tax for the same rights as they previously had not paying it… seems very short term thinking otherwise and another SEA country will benefit instead of Thailand
Wow!!!! The more I listen to the more misinformation I hear He says money you take out of an ATM or purchases made with a credit card is not “repatriated “. First, the proper word is remitted, and money brought into Thailand, whether through an ATM or credit card purchase is considered remitted funds and is subject to taxation
Not so much on the little news that was given today which was excellent by the way. Thank you I just think Thailand's getting more and more expensive and not feeling welcome there as I used to be
Why? I will possibly have to pay some tax on money I bring into Thailand. There are various tax allowances that I can use to reduce the amount of that money that is subject to tax. If I returned to my home country I would be taxed on my worldwide income apart from a small tax free allowance
yea because of standard deductions I'd only be taxed at 22% on my pension in the US. However, if in Thailand I'd be taxed another 18% because I'd fall in their 30% bracket. That's ridiculous. Looks like I'll be using my Wise card and leaving all money back in the US instead of opening a Thai bank account.
No Thai bank account no tax. However that money needed for retirement visa will not be taxed and as long as you do not add international money to that account then no tax to pay. If you had bothered watching the video that's all talked about. Like many have suggested use a card and app like Wise so easy!
@@signalizerI was thinking the same thing. Never transfer funds to a Thai bank account and just use Wise for all or almost all your payments in Thailand. Easy solution.
this is very useful - i find that tax advisers only usually only tell half the story (probably because they are so bored 😂) and miss important aspects e.g. what defines repatriation of money? answer = moving money into Thai bank account - these example cases get right to the important facts - thank you
All the research that I have done online and having spoken with Thai Tax advisors and my local Revenue Dept is that money remitted into Thailand as a Thai Tax resident via ATM withdrawals with a foreign issued card is considered remitted income and so the subject of Thai tax assessment!
as an expat every country you go to will find some way to get your money. thats why its better just to rent and never buy, so you can pick and leave anytime you want whenever the government gets to greedy.
i have been trying that. It sucks. Im in Da Nang at the moment, its bloody horrible. Personally, i need a base, and live out of hotel or short condo rentals for half a year
@phuketeer Absolutely! Flexibility is key with these options. When CBDCs go mainstream, these distinctions might become meaningless. So, let’s make the most of it while we can. :)
It doesn’t make sense that credit card spending and ATM withdrawals are not remittances. Many countries look at these as remittances. Otherwise just live on credit cards and cash withdrawn from ATM’s and live tax free? I think he is not correct on this.
That was very informative. We dont really need the hassle of more taxes and the implications of shuffling money around. It looks like 175 days will be it. Thanks so much Chris.
Excellent news regarding retired xpats making ATM withdrawals and credit card usage not being considered as repatriated funds and therefore not subject to taxation. Beautiful, leave us old pensioners to living simple and frugal lifestyles without worrying about taxes. I pay about 1.6 percent on my withdrawals which includes the ATM fee plus my country of origin banking institutions fee. At 25000 Baht withdrawal I pay approximately 345 Baht which is very reasonable, flexible and convenient. This all varies depending on current exchange rates of course. Very good news, thanks for that Chris.
This is not correct, credit card usage and ATM withdrawals ARE considered as remittances to Thailand and therefore subject to taxation. See Expat Tax Thailand for details.
@@gegaoli Samitivej Hospital cafeteria refuses cash, digital only already. I have a marriage visa and was refused a digital wallet here for not having a work permit visa.
@@peterpower7840Thanks for the reference, much appreciated. Two different opinions from two tax firms, surprising. CHRIS......a follow up with specifics of the Thai tax code concerning ATM withdrawals would be appreciated
This is exactly what I did in Canada and now I am counting the number of days I will be staying in Thailand in 2024. The downside for Thailand is that I will spend 500K less in 2024 and it looks like in 2025 vs if I just stayed there.
So to most full-time [meaning more than 180 days] expats it falls in terms of pragmatic impact into this: If you have to bring money into a Thai bank account in Thailand then you are going to have to expect to pay taxes at some level and file tax returns in Thailand. IF on the other hand you only bring money into thailand via extractions via an ATM / via your bank cards then that income will not be taxable but if you are full-time you must still file a Thai tax return. The last method which also has limitations is that money you bring on your person through customs will also not be taxable but is subject to maximum allowed levels and above those levels you would be subject to paying tax at customs above the max allowed. For those that live less than 180 days & do not have residency [aka perma-tourists] there is no tax obligation but watch those border runs because a couple of border runs and you're goiing to be a tax resident without the beneifits.
So if i live off my savings earned over 40 years working in my home country , im spending all of that money in Thailand , the Thai goverment want to tax this money i bring into the country ?
The informations the attorney gives about Thai Tax system are completely wrong. Look at the cases and the chart. He says you have to pay 35 percent of Tax if you got a pension of 3000 Dollar. Absolutely wrong. Even the chart that he copied from the internet shows that he is wrong. That is the truth: If you have 3000 dollar pension every month, you will pay around 12 percent tax in Thailand
It’s nuts that expats with the highest incomes (80k+ usd) can qualify for a LTR visa, which exempts them from Thai tax, whilst most of us with modest incomes have all the hassle and might still be subject to 35% Thai tax! I hope they will consider a similar exemption in future for pensioners who will probably be the expats hit hardest.
@@AuntyJack123 Depending the type of LTR- visa the respective holder doesn't invest a single Baht into Thailand. It's a privilege that will go away very soon IMO
Chris, All the research that I have done online and having spoken with Thai Tax advisors and my local Revenue Dept is that money remitted into Thailand as a Thai Tax resident via ATM withdrawals with a foreign issued card is considered remitted income and so the subject of Thai tax assessment!
@@DeusExMachina50 quite easy, if your home country is one that has signed up to The Common Reporting Standards. There are over 140 countries and Thailand is one of them. If so, Thailand RD can easily access information of all Bank transfers, card purchases and ATM withdrawals made from your home bank accounts under the CRS.
@@DeusExMachina50 1950 it would've been difficult, but Thailand signed up to CRS, therefore all your account movements are automatically reported to the tax office.
@@DeusExMachina50 yes, he does. Seems incredible to me. But what do I know. He's the expert, but just as with doctors,.a second opinion might be worth looking into
This news has been around expat communities for about 6 months. However, it is mainly to tax the Thai people themselves on their foreign income. If you really want to learn more about this subject just ask regular thai people what they think about this new government tax law. You will know what to do for yourself.... 😅
Chris: You will need to do an update to this video. It seems that there was no absolute determination if USA Social Security is considered taxable income. Some of us live on that only and IF we can find our way over there it would still be our only income. That question needs to be answered directly and without ambiguity.
It was already answered all money bought in to Thailand will be taxable unless it's already been taxed in your home country. That's if you stay in Thailand for more than 180 days.
1) What about savings I saved up from previous income that was already taxed in my home country? Say I move to Thailand and open a Thai bank account and deposit money from my savings, is that taxable? 2) 180 days consistent or 180 total if traveling in and out of Thailand given time out of Thailand is consistently more than ???? days.
Yes and yes. Transferring money into a Thai bank is the trigger for taxation. 180 days or more in any given calendar year is considered a Thai tax resident. Find a bank account with no foreign transaction fees and you're golden.
Thailand still doesn't tax foreign companies even if they are controlled from Thailand as long as they don't do business in the country. So many entrepreneurs / freelancers can run their foreign companies that are registered in low or zero tax countries and only pay taxes on their personal income. This is different from most countries and pretty much every western country, so Thailand still remains one of the tax friendliest countries for some people👍
I have been waiting for this video. 2days ago, i checked and wanted to know what all happend to this ridiculous law, now here you come with a full video about it with the right person talking about this subject. Thanks Chris!
No expert knows anything yet, because the Thai govt haven't published the full extent of the new laws. They don't even know themselves so how can anyone trust what these so called professional think is going to happen
Nothing "happened to it" - it's aimed at Thais earning money abroad who are avoiding paying tax abroad because they're abroad for less than 180 days and, so far, not taxed on it here either. Nothing to do with retirees, etc.
What a mess actually. You pay taxes at one rate in your home country. Then find out you are in higher tax bracket in thailand and have to pay more taxes because their tax tables are based on tax income of thai wages.
Thai government will make sure they top up your tax rate to 35%. that’s like “tax the rich” except it’s real this time due to comparably low wages in thailand vs western countries.
Seems like it’s only an issue if you have a bank account in Thailand and transfer money into that account. If you use a credit or debit card from your home country there is no tax obligation.
