Of this "most precious message" Sis White said, "This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel’s message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure." - Testimonies to Ministers pg 91.2 We would all do well to study the message thoroughly, and move on with the advancing light the Lord would have us recieve and experience in these last days.
I would've loved if my brothers at LineageJourney would have emphasized all that what you just said brother ML Verlus! ...I'm sad... We need to study and understand indeed why that 1888 Message is called the "most precious message"..!! May God help us: by these Commandments of God AND the Faith of Jesus! (Rev14:12) ...truly understand the faith and the need of Jesus Christ and the blood of His Cross ..to be in connection with the Law Of Commandments. They are 'not' to be separated one from the other.
"The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth." RH November 22, 1892, par. 7 " Hence the movement symbolized by the angel coming down from Heaven, lightening the earth with his glory, and crying mightily with a strong voice, announcing the sins of Babylon. In connection with his message the call is heard, "Come out of her, my people." As these warnings join the third angel's message, it swells to a loud cry." 4SP 422.1 "I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven, descending to the earth, and again ascending to heaven, preparing for the fulfillment of some important event. Then I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily, with a strong voice, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel's message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel's message. Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven, and I heard voices which seemed to sound everywhere, "Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." This message seemed to be an addition to the third message, joining it as the midnight cry joined the second angel's message in 1844." EW 277.1 - EW 277.2 "Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message, and I have answered, "It is the third angel's message in verity." The prophet declares, "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory." Brightness, glory, and power are to be connected with the third angel's message, and conviction will follow wherever it is preached in demonstration of the Spirit. How will any of our brethren know when this light shall come to the people of God? As yet, we certainly have not seen the light that answers to this description. God has light for his people, and all who will accept it will see the sinfulness of remaining in a lukewarm condition; they will heed the counsel of the True Witness when he says, "Be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." The Church is presented as standing in a self-satisfied, pleased, proud, independent position, ignorant of her destitution and wretchedness. By her attitude she says, "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing." How many who claim to be keeping the commandments of God are in this position today! The charge against the Church is, "Thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot." But while many may be satisfied with their lukewarm condition, the Lord is far from pleased, and declares that unless you are zealous and repent, he will spue you out of his mouth. But he warns you, he entreats you. He says, "Thou knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye-salve, that thou mayest see." RH April 1, 1890, par. 8 - RH April 1, 1890, par. 9 In these passages we can see that the Loud cry began at the 1888 GC in Minneapolis, but it had been rejected. Also we can see what messages is included in the Loud cry. It is the message from Rev.18:2-5 and the 3rd angel's message. The 3rd angel's message contains the message of Christ's righteousness or justification by faith. If the church accepted the message that they had the poisonous wine, and that they are in Laodicean state they would humble themselves and then they could receive the Christ's righteousness and the Loud cry would be proclaimed and the Latter rain would be poured out.
The message emphasized at the end of this episode relating to treating others in conflict with grace was EXACTLY the message I needed to hear today, thank you!!!!!
You have not understood the message at all. The message was not how to discuss. It could not be a most precious message if it would be limited to such a trivial thing like how to discuss. Such a teaching was known earlier.
The video messages provided by the Lineage ministry team, have been a tremendous blessing. And we lift this ministry in faith and prayer, that our Saviour will shine the Light of His Word and Truth across this world ! I would also strongly encourage all those who would like to gain a better understanding of the true issues involved in the 1888 Minneapolis Conference, to seek for the Truth in the actual articles and papers written by those involved . . . rather than reading what other men have to say about this Conference. The articles from both Elder Jones and Waggoner, as well as the numerous letters written by our sister Ellen White, provide much insight as to the real cause of the contention that year. May our Saviour and Mighty God bless and keep you and your families strong in faith . . . and the unfailing power of His Life-giving Word ! your friend and brother in Christ Jesus, Eric Wilson and family
The Bible says 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
That could be very true about inheriting an argumentative spirit; and only Very few SDAs really understand that 1888 message! And now there's hardly any time left to understand it.!!
May we be graceful in conflict indeed, while standing strong for our beliefs. Sis White was an amazing author. Trying to read some of her books which have great content.
Second hand, I have heard no more compelling speaker than Alonzo Trevor Jones. What I have learned is that we all are in need of constant reformation by God through the Spirit. I suppose we should also understand that when we are talking truth under objection, or have differences, we should be walking truth in patience, and ultimately LOVE must conquer lest pride, puffed up knowledge, or even the spies of Luke 20:20 take us before our time. I often try to glean the exact issue that separated Paul, and Barnabas, think it could not just because of the young in the faith got cold feet. Aren't we called to more patience in Christ? But, I wasn't there with Paul and Barnabas, nor with A T Jones, so I can only know what I might do in the case of severe disagreement. As for now, I can not even think of Alozono T Jones without tears falling.
It's actually the other way around....Jones and Waggoner were saying that the law in Galatians is the moral law and Butler and Smith were saying that it's the ceremonial law. Galatians 3:10 makes reference to the BOOK of the law though, and that's important....because the book of the law is the codified law, or, "the law written down" which is both the moral AND the ceremonial law, and we read both of them whenever we read them in the bible, and so really the law in Galatians, the "added law" is the codified law, or "the law written down". Joseph in Genesis 39 already had the law written in his heart, therefore he did not given in to the advances of Potiphers wife, even thought it was centuries before Sinai and Moses, that is, centuries before the law was codified, written down. Romans 2 bears this out, especially verse 27 that refers to the law as "the written code". If we had understood it so from the beginning, the whole debate probably wouldn't have had to happen
Hi! Actually, Gal 3:24 was talking about BOTH laws. See quote from EG White from Bible Commentary, volume 6, pg 1109, para 9: "Which Law Is the Schoolmaster?-I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments."
Really now did Joseph even keep the Sabbath so the fact of the law written on the Joseph's heart excluded the Sabbath but do not commit adultery . Same today Sabbath is part of the law ritual not required.
@@danieloostendorp9286 That's an interesting claim. How is the Sabbath ritualistic? Would you work 7 days a week if the Sabbath were really taken away? consider what the Sabbath memorializes, which is the six days of creation followed by a day of rest, this is what Israel were to remember, and they already knew the commandment in Exodus 16 and did not keep it, which means they knew about it before God spoke the commandments from Sinai in Exodus 20 Consider also where the Sabbath is written, on the same stone tablets as the other nine commandments, because they are a unit, which James confirms when he says that if one is transgressed, then the law is transgressed as a unit (James 2:9-11) and Jesus Himself says in Matthew 5:18-20 "whoever breaks the least of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. If your righeousness does not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the pharisees you will in no way enter the kingdom of heaven" Now, being more righteous than the pharisees does not mean being more pedanti about the tradition of the elders, no, it means that our righteousness comes from the Lord our Righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6) because we are the trees of HIS planting, therefore trees of righteousness (Isaiah 61;3b) and our righteousness is from Him (Isaiah 54:17, yes, the same verse as "no weapon formed against you shall prosper") Casting the Sabbath aside makes less sense the more we understand GRACE in the OLD Testament
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Eph 4:22,23)
My parents were Seventh-day Adventists before I was born in 1944. I attended SdA schools for 12-1/2 years but I have no college degrees and I never attended seminary classes. I’ve been studying the Bible for myself since 1958 and became a voting member of the SdA organization in 1959. I have answers to some of the questions people have asked in the comment section and I’ll provide them upon request but I have no more authority than any other Christian. What is “the law” in Galatians? What was the 1888 message? What is evangelism? How should we respond to people who want to argue with us?
@@stan1818 The Fourth Angel was the message which "lightened the whole earth with his glory" and E.G White accurately identified this prophecy with the 1888 and the latter rain...
"The Great Blizzard of 1888, also known as the Great Blizzard of '88, or the Great White Hurricane (March 11-14, 1888), was one of the most severe recorded blizzards in American history. The storm paralyzed the East Coast from the Chesapeake Bay to Maine, as well as the Atlantic Provinces of Canada. Snow fell from 10 to 58 inches (25 to 147 cm) in parts of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, and sustained winds of more than 45 miles per hour (72 km/h) produced snowdrifts in excess of 50 feet (15 m)."
Hi! Thank you so much for these videos! Just a question. 2:56 the argument was that Law was the Moral law instead of the Ceremonial law, right? Thank you
hi there, yes - that was the argument put forward at the time by Jones and Waggoner. They both saw the law in Galatians 3 as being the moral law rather than the traditional held view that it was the ceremonial law
A. T. Jones, Advent Review, July 25, 1899 - "Several letters have been received asking what Law is the subject of consideration in the book of Galatians. The answer is, Not any law at all. It is the gospel that is the subject, and the whole subject, under consideration in the book of Galatians." The issue of Galatians is the false gospel (righteousness by law or works) as opposed to the true gospel (righteousness by faith, or the power of God). By taking an incorrect view of the law in Galatians, Adventists opened themselves up to a false gospel. Waggoner and Jones removed the false prop, and thus the false gospel many had been leaning on, was exposed. Hence, the conflict.
I think (with respect to Lineage's awesome effort to make a documentary) lineage needs another video about 1888, in a more detailed information. This is only a suggestion
Hi Lineage Journey! Is it true that during the revival mentioned in this video, the latter rain began to fall and Jesus could have come back during this time if it weren't for internal division?
It is true. Look for the general conference bulletin of 1893, AT Jones sermon n. 10 or 11. He is asking the congregation about that and they respond saying “four years ago” and “Minneapolis” as an answer for when did the loud cry began...
I think you misstated what Jones and Waggoner thought about the Law. They preached that 1) Galatians was not about the law, it was about the gospel, and 2) that the Law in Galatians was both the Ceremonial and the Moral Law. Ellen White agreed with them. Smith and Butler were fierce in their view that the law in Galatians was the Ceremonial law only. You had it backwards.
WHAT IS IMPORTANT, IS THAT SDA MEMBERS (AS A WHOLE) OUGHT TO STUDY THEIR BIBLES, AND NOT THE POSITIONS MEN HAVE LAID DOWN FOR THEM TO THINK OR BELIEVE (AS THEY THOUGHT). I TOO HAVE READ WHAT SISTER WHITE CONCLUDED CONCERNING GALATIANS 3, BUT NOT ON ITS ENTIRETY. THE ONE MAIN POINT MADE, WAS THAT WHEN PAUL WROTE THAT "THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO LEAD US TO CHRIST" SHE SAID, "ESPECIALLY THE MORAL LAW" LEADS US TO CHRIST. HOWEVER THERE ARE VARIOUS CONTEXTUAL MEANINGS PAUL RELATED SOLELY TO THE MATTER OF THE "WORKS OF THE LAW" FOR JUSTIFICATION. SURELY ONE WILL CONCLUDE THAT, "THE LAW WAS ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS" (GAL 3:19) WOULD APPLY TO THE PROVISIONARY TEMPORAL ORDINANCES CONTAINED IN TORAH, WHICH PAUL SPAKE OF AS, DIVINE ORDINANCES" OF THE WORLDLY SANCTUARY (HEBREWS 9:1) UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. IN MY EXPERIENCE AS A BIBLE TEACHER, THE MAINLINE CHURCHES ARE ALTOGETHER CONVINCED THAT ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN TORAH ARE ABOLISHED, NAILED TO THE CROSS, PASSED AWAY, WHEREAS THOSE OF THE NEO MESSIANIC GROUPS, SAY NONE OF TORAH HAS PASSED AWAY, SINCE THEY HAVE TAUGHT THEMSELVES TO CONTINUE IN SOME FORM OF FEAST OBSERVANCE, AND YES, BELIEVE IN A THIRD TEMPLE AS WELL. THEY TOO ARE BLINDED. PAUL'S LETTERS (ROMANS, GALATIANS, EPHESIANS, COLOSSIANS, AND HEBREWS) MUST BE STUDIED ALONGSIDE ONE ANOTHER, SO THAT ALL THE LANGUAGE, PHRASES, WORDS, ARE ALSO RIGHTLY DIVIDED WHEN COMPARED WITH THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, BEING TORAH ITSELF. IT IS TRULY A FRUSTRATING TASK THESE DAYS TO TRY AND ASSIST IN OPENING HEARTS AND MINDS TO "PRESENT TRUTH, WHEN HEARTS AND MINDS ARE CLOSED TO READING TORAH AS WELL. SOME THINGS PAUL SAID, LIKE "UNDER THE LAW" IS CONSTANTLY USED TO SAY ALL THINGS IN TORAH IS, "THE LAW OF MOSES" AND THUS OLD COVENANT, THEN ONTO THE TRASH HEAP IT GOES. WOULD BE NICE IF MORE CHRISTIANS AND YES, SDA CHRISTIANS WERE DEEPER INTO THE WORD OF GOD. MORE GODLY, DISCERNING MEN AND WOMEN ARE NEEDED IN THE FIELD, BUT FEW ARE EITHER EQUIPPED OR WILLING. BY THE WAY, I DON'T KNOW IF MANY KNOW THIS AS WELL, BUT SISTER WHITE ENCOURAGED IN HER WRITINGS FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE STATUTES AND JUDGMENTS SHOULD BE STUDIED BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD OUR GOD AS WELL. I ALWAYS TEACH THAT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE ORDINANCES OF THE TEMPLE, WHICH INCLUDE THE ETIRETY OF THE TABERNACLE, THE PRIESTHOOD, THE FEAST DAYS, AND OF COURSE THE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM AND OTHER IMPORTANT PARTICULARS, THE REST OF TORAH IS WORTHY TO STUDY AND IN MOST CASES CAN BE APPLIED IN OUR CHRISTIAN WALK. ONE EXCEPTION IS CIRCUMCISION, WITHOUT WHICH A STRANGER COULD NOT BE JOINED TO THE LORD AND KEEP THE FEASTS. WELL, THAT IS ALSO AN ORDINANCE, WHICH WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS. OF COURSE SOME THINGS LIKE BUILDING A BATTLEMENT (BORDER) AROUND THE FLAT ROOF OF YOUR HOME WOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF BY ROMANS 13 (MODERN CIVIL ENGINERING LAW), AS WELL AS LAW ENFFORCMENT ITSELF. I AM SURE YOU KNOW ALL THE EXCUSES AND ACCUSATIONS THROWN OUT TO DIMINISH THE TRUTH. "SO YOU WANT TO PUT ME BACK UNDER THOSE 613 LAWS?" OR "SO DO YOU SDA'S STONE YOUR CHURCH BRETHREN WHEN THEY PICK UP STICKS ON SABBATH? LOL!" TO BE HONEST, I DID NOT COME TO MY CONCLUSSIONS OF WHAT I TEACH FROM S.O.P OR READING THE 27 FUNDAMENTALS, BUT BY STUDYING AND KNOWING FOR MYSELF, AND THAT IS WHAT I TEACH. I HAVE BEEN CORRECTED ON SOME THINGS BY SOP, BUT NOT ABOUT THESE MATTERS OF LAW, GRACE, FAITH, ETC. ME AND SOME OTHER SDA BRETHREN DO SOME LABOR ON A FREE INTERNET BASED AUDIO/VIDEO/CHAT ENGINE CALLED "PALTALK". I WISH MULTITUTUDES OF SDA MEMBERS AND THEIR OUTREACH MINISTRIES WOULD SEE THE BENEFIT OF USING THIS TO REACH PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES. IT IS SO EASY. ANY HOW, IT IS NEARLY 1AM HERE IN OHIO, AND I NEED TO GET TO BED. THANK YOU AND BLESS YOU PATRICK JONES FOR YOUR COMMENT.
@@timarnett672 "ADDED because of transgression" is really better translated as emphasized, instead of the word "added"... because the law was already in existence since creation, that much is made clear in the bible... But it was Emphasized to Israel by God at Mt. Sinai because the people had lost their knowledge of God and His law during the years of Egyptian servitude, which was correctly understood by their fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....
@@undrielgrenger53 YOU ARE RIGHT, MAN (ADAM->MAN) HAS ALWAYS HAD A KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAW BEFORE THEY WERE CONVICTED OF SIN. THE LORD IS JUST AND GIVES US A KNOWLEDGE OF HIMSELF, NOT ONLY IN THE COMMANDMENTS, STATUTES AND LAWS, BUT ALSO HIS DIVINE CHARACTER, AND IN MESSIAH JESUS WE ARE PART OF THE NEW COVENANT, HAVING HIS LAW WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS.. SAD REALITY IS MANY MODERN RELIGIOINISTS SAY THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, (I SAY) NOR AM I, BUT WHY TRANSGRESS YE THE LAW? SEEMINGLY, A SMALLER SECT STILL GOES RIGHT ON WALKING ACCORDING TO THE MINDSET, PAUL REMONSTRATED, "I AM OF". ARE YOU OF PAUL OR APOLLOS? NOWADAYS ONE IS OF THE LAW OF CHRIST, NOT THE LAW OF GOD (THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, WRITTEN TO THE JEWS ETC., (AS IF MESSIAH JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE DIVIDED? ) ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB/ISRAEL HAD A TORAH ETCHED IN THEIR MINDS. THESE BEDOWINS HAD NO T.V OR INTERNET, SO THEY LIFTED UP THE LORD COLLECTIVELY, AT THE MOUTH OF ABRAHAM. EVERY PLACE HIS FOOT DID REST, HE BUILT AN ALTAR UNTO THE UNSEEN GOD WHO HAD SPOKEN TO HIM, AS A MAN TALKETH TO A FRIEND. Genesis 18:18 “Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?” Genesis 18:19 “For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.” Genesis 26:4 “And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;” Genesis 26:5 “Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” THROUGH ABRAHAM, THE SEED OF WOULD COME, NOT ONLY OF ISAAC, BUT THE TRUE SON OF PROMISE, MESSIAH JESUS. James 2:23 “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.” YES LORD. ABRAHAM REJOICED TO SEE MESSIAH'S DAY, BUT WOULD HE REJOICE AT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE BODY CALLED AFTER CHRIST? YEAH ABRAHAM, FATHER OF THE FAITHFUL. GENESIS 22: 2 AND 12, JOHN 3:16 NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, HE SENT US HIS SON, AND GAVE HIM AS A GIFT. INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO OUR HUMAN HEARTS AND MINDS, THE LOVE OF GOD FOR US ALL, MADE CLEAR THAT HE WOULD BY NO MEANS CLEAR THE GUILTY, YET JESUS KNEW NO SIN. HE WAS MADE SIN BECAUSE HE BORE OUR AWAY UPON HIMSELF. THE DEEP RICHES OF GOD. SIN, BEING THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW, OUGHT MAKE SIN ALL THE MORE HORRIBLE TO ALL HIS CHILDREN. SINCE IT CAUSED THE SON OF GOD GREAT HUMILIATION AND BEARING OUR INIQUITIES, WE SHOULD KNOW IN WHAT WE ERR. WE HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN FOR SOMETHING, BUT WHAT IS OUR SIN? IS OUR REPENTANCE TRUE IS WE WERE RAISED WITHOUT THE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD? WE MAY SURELY READ FOR OURSELVES, ALL THAT THE LORD HAS SPOKEN, STUDY. MAY IT BE SO.
@@danieloostendorp9286 Nope, its all in the bible... so according to that logic, the bible is wrong since we know very well that God doesn't contradict Himself
At 3 minutes he says that Waggoner and Jones taught that law in Galatians 3 was the ceremonial and not the moral law. This is wrong, just the opposite was taught by Jones and Waggoner and ultimately EGW agreed with them. Additionally he adds that Uriah Smith repented. I would like to see evidence for that, please provide the letter/quote. It was actually a lot worse than what is usually portrayed. Jones and Waggoner were heckled, censored, shunned and EGW White was exiled to Australia. When she returned in 1901 Uriah Smith resumed his fight by publishing more articles about the law in Galatians being the cermonial law and not the moral law, the fight ended with divine judgements, the Review and Herald burned down and the Battle Creek Sanitarium burned down. In 1922 the famed Dime Tabernacle burned also. This is the history that Adventists dont want to talk about, that in reality Jesus was driven out of the synagogue by our religious leaders and exact same thing is done today any time that Most Precious message is presented. I had hoped you would have done better. I'm dissapointed how this was covered by a GYC leader. Sometimes it seems that there is no hope for this church.
You seem to be a non Adventist with mis- information! The Review and Herold burned with the Sanitariam ?? I don't think so! Why was the first S.D.A. a tabernacle?? Didn't know it burned down in 1922??! An X Àdventist!
Which Law Is the Schoolmaster?-I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments. 6BC 1109.9
The law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ hoping and hoping that May the Almighty God will give us grace to save us through faith in Christ our savior. Let us not pretend that we are save but only God knows whom He gave mercy and grace to the elect. My only hope that may God have mercy on me to consider me.🙏
TiMES of peace & prosperity have produced a mass of professed believers in the church. A TiME of great adversity & persecution will purge out the majority. What the church has failed to do in TiMES of peace and prosperity, she will have to do in the face of great adversity & persecution Jesus says plainly (as recorded in gospels of Matthew, Mark & Luke) there are wheat & tares in the church. Let both grow together... But in the harvest time the tares will be sifted out, seperated from the wheat. ( Me: ..in the face of great adversity & persecution!)
God brought those guys because world of the early 19's was very close so that those who can glimpse, could change and have the shield 🛡️ of God for protection.
A little history just before the 1888 General Conference. Ellen White had a vision while in Europe of the 1886 General Conference; “That conference [1886],” wrote Ellen White to G.I. Butler, “was presented to me in the night season.” -Letter 21, 1888. My guide said, “Follow me, I have some things to show you.” He led me where I was a spectator of the scenes that transpired at that meeting. I was shown the attitude of some of the ministers, yourself in particular, at that meeting, and I can say with you, my brother, it was a terrible conference. My guide then had many things to say… He stretched out his arms toward Dr. Waggoner and to you, Elder Butler, and said in substance as follows: “Neither have all the light upon the law; neither position is perfect.” Ellen G. White, Vol. 3, The Lonely Years 1876 - 1891, pg. 387-388, by Arthur L. White; 1984 Ellen White continued; We must keep before the world a united front. Satan will triumph to see differences among Seventh-day Adventists. These questions [in regard to the law] are not vital points. -Letter 37, 1887. Ibid The Angel guide, who in vision took Ellen White to the Tabernacle in Battle Creek at the time of the 1886 General Conference session, declared: “The Spirit of God has not had a controlling influence in this meeting. The spirit that controlled the Pharisees is coming in among this people, who have been greatly favored of God.” Ellen White continued: I was told that there was need of great spiritual revival among the men who bear responsibilities in the cause of God. There was not perfection in all points on either side of the question under discussion. We must search the scriptures for evidences of truth. “There are but few, even of those who claim to believe it, that comprehend the third angel’s message, and yet this is the message for this time. It is present truth.”...Said my guide, “There is much light yet to shine forth from the law of God and the gospel of righteousness. This message, understood in its true character, and proclaimed in the Spirit, will lighten the earth with its glory...MS 15, 1888. Ibid, pg. 389 So the angel says that both sides didn’t understand the full truth…and that the problem was of the Pharisaical attitude of Butler and Smith…the angel says that much light is to come from the law of God as to the gospel of righteousness. Points worthy of note of the 1888 General Conference: 7. As to establishing positions, no official action was taken in regard to the theological questions discussed…Ibid, pg. 395-396. So neither was it accepted or rejected. It is quite interesting that J. N. Loughborough, who wrote the first two books on the history of the SDA church; Rise and Progress of the Seventh-day Adventists (1892), and a revised and enlarged version in 1905, The Great Second Advent Movement, makes no mention of the session or the issues…also there is no mention of the session in Life Sketches of Ellen G. White published in 1915. Arthur White mentions in pg 396 that this issue didn’t come into importance until 13 years after the death of Sister White. Since they didn’t have the spirit of brotherly love, they never came together to study both sides and that was blessings withdrawn from God's people. I feel that Butler and Smith’s camp were zealous for not belittling the law. And probably were afraid of becoming like the Nicolaitans. The Nicolaitians are guilty of ‘turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness’ Jude 4 And that is where we are at today…EGW warned E.J. Waggoner about his fall from grace by not keeping the law lifted up…and that He became a stumbling block for his own message when he fell into adultery. But the SDA church and some of our brethren want to remove ‘here are they that keep the commandments of God’ from the distinguishing characteristics of God’s people as spoken of in Revelation 14:12
Ron Duffield's book "The Return of the Latter Rain" totally repudiates what you stated.....The Message was rejected, and God's messengers were treated with spite and disrepute....on the law and Galations, E. G White didn't know what position to take at first... and God showed her that both Butler and Waggoner were not fully accurate on the law in Galations... But it wasn't until further revelation from God, that she clarified that the law in Galations was speaking of Both the ceremonial and moral law, but "especially, the Moral law"...thus, she mostly agreed Waggoner and Jones....this is all revealed in Duffield's book, which has a compiled collection of all E.G. White's statements on the matter and I suggest you study it.... Also, about E.J. Waggoner and Jones, Ellen White warned that they might one day leave the church, but she ALSO clarified that it would be due to the MISTREATMENT done to them by the church leadership. Please study before you make such bold claims about God's messengers....
I wonder why he said they apostasized, does leaving the church equals apostasy? This are great men who walked out of a building but not out of the faith.
Waggoner later rejoined the church. See the book "What happened to AT Jones and EJ Waggoner" page 10, para 6: "In 1906 Elder Waggoner, after his wife had divorced him because of his attentions to a nurse with whom he had become acquainted in England, married the lady. This, of course, terminated his connection with the church. A few years later we find him at the Battle Creek Sanitarium working in medical and religious lines. There is no record that he ever opposed the church. On May 28, 1916, at the age of 61 years, he died at his home of a heart attack after a full day of activity. Word of his death was given to the church in a back-page note in the The Review and Herald, June 29, 1916."
The same book I mentioned above, chapter 7 para 7, reads: "Subsequent to working with Dr. Kellogg, A. T. Jones entered upon the publication of The American Sentinel of Religious Liberty, a monthly journal which he issued over a period of several years. In November, 1915, he moved to Washington, D.C., and devoted his time to publishing this paper. He began to attend The People’s Church, a colored Seventh-day Adventist church that had broken away from the conference and was pastored by F. H. Seeney. On the invitation of the officers of this church, A. T. Jones participated in the work of the church and then joined the group. He was granted membership on April 15, 1916." So Jones didn't actually leave the church.
The Adventist church is the most anti-slavery church, you can find...thinks...E.G. White covered that subject extensively, even when slavery was ongoing at the time...
So many have left God because of the actions of men. Why punish God for something men do? It is something that happens frequently. Someone upsets us and we leave God to handle the situation in a way to make us feel good. Hmmm. 😞
But you followed a woman vision from the initial mistake of 1844 through the (shut door doctrine) and the investigative judgement rational this what groups came out of this period ? Mormons (Joesph Smith) another vision and Jehovah Witnesses (Charles Russell) with studying under some SDA who is right and are chosen over the others under divine guidance? Is there a pattern here in this concerning belief systems? Who really called these groups to utter these interpretations? Christ alone the Gospel was given and new covenant is acted!
Really, we continue to make christians to go away from adventist church because we debate with them about the law, forgetting Christ. How many people I have seen like Jones and Waggoner in my church too...
As long as men are stiffnecked, self-centered, and without the teachable humble Spirit of Christ, there will always be division, strife, contention and eventually apostasy. Let us humble ourselves at the feet of Jesus.
From Miller's Adventism to the S.D.A. pioneers to the S.D.A. today, it has always been an enterprise of human intellectual rationalization and speculation. God does not reveal His doctrine by human speculation and committees.
The Spirit of God does Not make False Prophecies and when one says the time appointed is this day and it does Not come to pass the whole Church loses Faith in God and the prophet. It is fine to lose faith in the prophet but losing your Faith in God will lead you on the path of destruction. Satan knows how to cause Division and uses every means possible to destroy the Church of Believers. Look at To Days Churches.
Ellen White and Hiram Edson will lead people into something as Roman Catholic as that from which the Reformers fled. Not only does White teach that one must keep the Law in order to be saved; she teaches that the soul sleeps at death. That is important because it touches directly on justification. Calvin knew that that the doctrine of soul sleep goes hand in with salvation by woks. That is why his first theological essay was directed at refuting that teaching which was embraced by the Anabaptists. The essay was titled Psychopanachia or Soul Sleep. Calvin cited John 10:28 a most comforting passage of scripture which does not leave salvation up in the air but bases it on grace alone. ""And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." We already have eternal life. We will not have to wait for the judgment in order to find out if we have been saved. Note the words "And I give unto them eternal life" that is I give it NOW.
If anybody would take the time to actually look, they would realise that we keep repeating "righteousness by faith" but what was presented was in fact "justification by faith"
Waggoner, although he apostasized ....he would return back into the Church a few years later...and join in again in the work of the Lord. See says {ATJEJW 10.6}
Waggoner died at his typewriter as he wrote an extensive letter denouncing his beliefs in the Adventist doctrines. He stated he hadn't believed the doctrines for over 25 years.
@@holdthewinds Is there some sort of historical reference that you have for this...proving this? [Update]: And I also missed one thing you said!! Which is telling me even the moreso you have the wrong man! See: E.J. Waggoner died in the year "1916" .....but "you said" he did not believe in Christ for the 25years before his death..... this would mean, "you" are telling me that he did not believe in Jesus from the years 1891-1916 entirely??? Some of the greatest sermons ever preached on the Gospel and the Covenants were preached by him in the 1890s! So your statement is false. E.J. Waggoner would eventually later on apostasize...but, in a few years later.. he would come back to the SDA Church.
@@holdthewinds- You should be a bit more specific. In the unpublished "Confession" that was found on his desk when he died, he stated two things that he realized "twenty five years ago": 1. That God's way of saving men had never changed, all through the earth's history. This is correct. 2. That his understanding of sin as "not an entity but a condition that can exist only in a person" made him think that the whole sanctuary teaching (involving 1844, etc) was impossible. In this he was wrong. It seems unlikely that he drew the second conclusion "twenty five years ago" when we have writings from him dated as late as 1899 to 1901 (and possibly later), which defend the sanctuary and priesthood in heaven and the 1844 date. So at least 15 years before he died, he was still teaching the truth on those matters. The purpose of the sanctuary in heaven, the investigative judgment, the nature of sin and how it is dealt with, are indeed deep subjects, and to see them in a gospel light requires illumination from God. There are many who hold these doctrines in a legal way, just as the Jews held circumcision and the temple in Jesus' day. That is not "saving" truth. There are others, even leaders and teachers in the SDA church today, who essentially discard or nullify the sanctuary in heaven and investigative judgment, yet are still considered members and not "apostates"! What Waggoner taught and wrote, from the mid-1880's to the early 1900's is sound gospel truth. It is only in the light of some of the understanding given to him, that the sanctuary teaching starts to really shine and take it's important place. It's unfortunate that Waggoner started to lose the connection between the gospel and the sanctuary, but when we consider how few in his day really understood it, how much opposition he faced (he couldn't even get his books published in America), and how much dead, dry, legal teaching was present in the Church (and opposed to the message God had given him), we can have a bit more sympathy for the weakness he fell into in this area, in his last years.
@@dennishofer2163 Woah, Dennis, you are picking up a lot of different stuff from here and there. I fully believe in the Sanctuary message, as it is based on Daniel, Hebrews, and the book of Revelation. It involves the work of getting rid of sin, and therefore is part of the Gospel. Waggoner and Jones made more clear what sin is (that it is a power, not just actions). See my article: www.practicaprophetica.com/what-is-the-1888-message/ We must be extremely careful about who we accept as messengers from God. They need to bear the divine credentials, and it is up to us to test them. Gospel Order demands it, or we will end up like the other churches who just listen to whoever tickles their fancy.
