@@adamb3129 oh yeah I know, I watch him all the time. He persuaded me to get my Veloster N. I meant he might get one personally, he sold his BRZ a few months ago and in his CTR review he talked as if he wanted to buy one.
@@Halfgnomen it’s a combination of things when a car goes out of production, not just dealership markup. When something new comes out, some people wait to buy the car used even if it’s at msrp. Lmao.
Same thing with the Focus RS even though that had its own problems. I recently bought a 2021 Tacoma trd sport and they slapped a $5k markup because they said the factory has been slowed down due to Covid. I told the dealership, “I’m not paying $5k over. You can sell a truck for MSRP right this second or you can have another vehicle sitting on your lot” they ended up removing the markup right away.
How does a dealer markup kill the potential of the car? The only reason they're able to charge that much is because there are people dumb enough to pay it.
@@mcspikesky well the 6.5 gen is the final Camaro body style as of 2023. So a zl1 1le will be extremely limited since the consumer market and myself including hate the front end update.
This is a fantastic car, at 35-45K. The markups that dealers are charging for this are absolutely insane. I'd much rather have a ZL1 1LE or a GT350R for 70K
The value that civic type-r's have held (limited edition or not) has been a lot better than even I had imagined. it's hard to buy one used for under ~$33-35k.
Civics used to be a high school kids introduction into drag racing, with a fast food job budget. Now they’re more than a C8 corvette from the dealership:/
Civics also didn't use to come from the factory with over 300 hp and active dampers. Even the Civic Hatch Sport with its manual transmission and easily-tuned 180 hp engine is miles better than many legitimate sports cars that were available 20 years ago and it only costs $23k MSRP.
Well it's a special edition model, so 5k-10k premium sounds about right. Base model still costs around 35k - 40k. (Remember it's the dealers who are charging extra, not Honda's fault)
Own a '91 NSX , 22nd one in the US. The original owner paid 83K, 20K over list. A lot of money now, crazy money back then. It's insane that these cars are still selling over list in some areas four years after introduction.
It’s called a free market. Lots of people crying about GPU prices. And it’s for the same reason, they can’t buy one for the price they think they should pay. Thankfully no one else gets to determine how someone spends their money.....at least for now.
@@Bob_Smith19 Well Bob you're clearly not related to Adam Smith, that's for sure. Firstly, there's no such thing as "free markets" or this kind of price gouging abuse would be commonplace and the materials necessary for modern life would all go the highest bidder so people would be starving on the streets, and I don't mean a few tent cities. This same kind of "market fundamentalism" is the same logic that allowed Clinton to remove Glass-Stegall which led to the 2008 financial crisis. I could go on but I think it's safe to say that markets need regulation or they will destroy themselves, the only real question is how much.
@@toddstevens8506 Well said. The dealers are gatekeeping a product and their shortsighted greed many times actually depresses sales, reduces the velocity of money and makes us all poorer.
I bought one two days ago, I am in love with this drivers car! Thank you so much, you guys rock at car reviews as in the way I like to drive. Based of your reviews I picked the type-r over a 392 charger. I believe I made the best decision of my life……
@@legion1630 still loving it especially after 4 days at the track this year, wish I had more money for track days but like how cheap it is to run. New pads sticky tires and dot 4 fluid is all I did and of course an oil change after the event.
Matt... I love the foot cam. It would be awesome if you put a small "tach cam" on screen right above or next to the footwell.... avoiding the speedo of course! 👍🏼
Anything above 60k for a (albeit the most brilliant) FWD car is just outrageous.. car manufacturers and dealerships have lost all respect for money at this point.
For me it’s a non-starter. Instead I bought an ND2 Mx-5, and would have zero problem staying with these guys on this road. But more important, my MX-5’s RWD drivability and full-time driver engagement makes a trip to the local Safeway an experience.
@@johntechwriter I completely agree, you can never go wrong with an ND2, its just as fun as any modern higher performance car especially when you don’t end up in a jail cell after flooring it for 5 seconds. For me this Type R is a brilliant compromise between daily and track toy, but I remember it wasn’t long ago you could get cars like these (starter enthusiast fwd/awd class) for around the same as the (then) new miata...Almost all dealerships are now giving MSRP hikes on enthusiast cars now.. And Honda asking what E9X M3’s, B7 RS4’s, Z06’s, R35’s and other higher end performance cars used to cost should be heavily shamed upon by the car community.
@@augustortiz 35k-40k for the base model Type R isn't asking much, just saying. (Dealers are the culprits for demanding high money, not the manufacturer)
In Canada they are selling $100,000. 1020 units worldwide U want a better deal? Get a Jaguar xfrs . They made 500 worldwide over 3 years, and it would destroy the civic type r ltd. For less than $60,000. Most car reviewers agree it will be a future classic
@@andrewmacartney76 It's not the dealer that's the problem, it's the knuckle heads with money willing to pay the mark up. They set the mark up based what the people are willing to pay, no demand, no sale.
Last year a 1998 integra type r went for $82,000 on bring a trailer. That was number 3,XXX. They’re making 600 of these, in the US. They know what they’re doing. And it’s all about making money.
My Shifter in my Type S is probably the best shifting Manual I have ever driven. And I have owned Porsche's and BMW's with awesome gearboxes.. All I have done to mine is the Fully Acuity shift package and Hybrid Racing Performance Cables.. Acuity 4-way shifter, detents, shift selector springs, and cable bushings.
People don't buy manuals because they're too lazy or scared to learn. I was kind of the same way until I got off my ass and watched some vids and taught myself on my dads old accord.
@@abes3925 It's really not that big of a deal. Like I used to run marathons and then hop in my Integra Type R with an ATS carbon clutch that had a 1200kg pressure plate and drive my ass home in Japanese stop and go traffic.
My prosthetic left leg due to combat wounds suffered in Iraq, makes an automatic transmission much easier to drive. Does that mean I'm too lazy and stupid to drive a 6 spd manual?
Dealers are greedy for sure but shit, people are buying them at +30% MSRP soooo they're going to keep charging. The fact that it is 600 limited means even next year, they will still hold the same value on the lots.
@@henlolneh well duh because they’re being sold at +30% msrp..and who do you think are getting first dibs and also have the money to pay that much of a markup? Other dealers and flippers.
@@milli2385 fact of the matter is, if you're into cars, especially limited edition versions of cars with JDM heritage, you're going to pay a premium. there is no value purchase when it comes to type r's used or new.
@@henlolneh but that’s not the case from the manufacturer. The type r is actually well priced. The car suffers when it’s the dealer that’s hiking the prices up. I remember a few years back seeing a hellcat in the showroom for $109k when the msrp was $71k. It taints the car
Are people buying them? If so then any mention of cost is moot. If they weren’t selling then the dealers would lower the price. It’s very basic economics. Not saying the car is worth it at the current price. But it’s a free market and people can spend their money how they see fit.
Dealers are absolutely nuts for the mark up on this. I bought the regular Type R last week for a little more than 33k with 3k miles on it. Love it, but don’t be a sucker.
That's not too bad of a price given the MSRP new is about $38k. When I was looking to buy a Type R there was a used one with 5k miles for $37k. I ended up finding a new one at MSRP
It's really unfortunate that the dealers are marking these things up. I was at my local Honda dealer and they had two new Type Rs on the showroom -- a normal one and a Limited Edition. The normal had a $10k market adjustment, and the LE had a $20k markup. What fool would pay $20k markup for a Civic? Even worse, is that it defeats the very purpose of these hot hatches...affordable performance. The appeal of a hot hatch is really lost when they are in the company price wise of some very serious used performance cars.
Sweet video! Props for calling out the bs ADM that is still happening on the touring and will afflict this limited edition as well. No boat for you, dealer!
Having owned the Integra Type R in this color and also the 2018 Civic Type R, I'd say the removal of sound deadening is a huge factor in enjoyment of an ''R'' branded car.
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks nah. It's worth exactly 0 dollars more than any other Type R. Some would say even less because AS IS it was taken completely apart by a body shop and it's got some bolt ons. Neither ever adds value to any car. Seems like a proper paint job of course, but if I already have doubts about Swindon's assembly skills sometimes...I'm not betting money the shop did a better job.
I was a golf r fanboy and hated how unresponsive and soft it was, it was like driving a nice suv no connection to the road at all, next I drove the overpriced focus rs which ford wanted for like 65 thousand dollars and I liked it but that's decent revving v8 money. Next I drove the Hyundai n which felt so much more raw and engaging than the focus rs like a proper drivers car but still kind of cheap feeling for the cash. The type r was super raw but super refined when it wanted to be and just so much faster made an sti feel like a grocery getter. Also in my opinion and most people I run into it's the best looking car in the class it's not trying to hide it's japanese spirit and style. I get flagged all the time by people from age 16 to people in their 60's telling me how beautiful they think it is, I never got people giving me compliments when I drove a 2013 c63 amg or my 2010 335i bmw. People's jaw drop when they see a fk8 type r like it's a ferrari and they start taking pictures of it, I would never do that for a car I think is ugly.
Haha so sick!! And maybe now my GT3/Civic Type R cross shop makes a little more sense. This car provides a genuinely awesome and engaging manual experience!
You don't need a limited edition Type R to get the Type R 'GT3' experience... get a regular one. All the stuff the limited edition has is very minimal and you can do better aftermarket suspension upgrades on a base Type R... you don't need coilovers by default on this car either. The adjustable suspension is incredible.
@TheSmokingTire, Dual pinion it's not a fatty pinion lol, it means u still have the main pinion from the steering shaft and u get another pinion at the opposite side where the electric assist motor is, the other pinion is linked to a reducer from the electric assist motor output shaft. :)
I just saw one in my local Honda dealership Sunday when I took my S2000 for service. I had no idea what it was and now wish I paid more attention to it lol
Man this car has been around for a good couple of years now and i still think it looks fantastic. Its never gotten old and they look so goddam nice in real life. i get where people are coming from when they complain about the styling but i disagree lol. Also i think the black and yellow on this car looks awesome
All the comments are complaining about dealers, clearly you aren't going to the right dealers then, also if you expect to buy a LIMITED EDITION at MSRP you are very mistaken, $5k over MSRP is acceptable
I really wanted a Type R. I shopped around locally for sometime but the dealer mark-ups pissed me off. I had one dealer tell me that if me AND my buddy each bought a Type R from them they'd only charge each of us a $5K mark-up. We could afford the mark-up but it's the principle of it that bothers me. FWIW the supra at the time was marked up $25-45K. I ended up getting a used Lotus Elise instead and my buddy got a C8 Vette (with no mark-up).
Awesome car. Questionable price tag. But certainly a Honda collectible love the color choice. If you ever push more power , keep the stock exhaust and find a set of high flow headers and catalytic converters.
I was so excited when the 2door rendering came out back in 2016ish near the 10th gen launch. I've since warmed up to the 4 door but I still wish a proper coupe exists :(
60k for 306hp no thank you. The market has way better options. But if you are a JDM sucker enjoy your 300hp. Lmao. I remember my first STI in 2005. Same horsepower and steering ratio.
They actually are so out everywhere which is why "if" you do find one, the markup is so high. Saw a 2020 Type R and my local Honda dealer it was already sold for $12,000 over sticker. If you like the Mazada 3 enjoy it. To each their own. Too bad Mazada did not option the turbo 3 hatch with a manual seeing how the Miata shows they know how to make good manuals. I love everything about this Type R so I bought one. It is not only one of the best cars I have ever owned, it is one of the best cars I have ever driven. BTW I am an old-school Honda guy and used to own a gen 1 CRX in high school. Glad to be back in the Honda family.
@@adamb3129 Yep. The Limited Edition sold out in seconds in Canada and the rest of the world soon after that. They did a pre-order which was actually pretty smart because I believe there was no markup. The few remaining that are released here in the States are quickly snatched up when they hit the dealer floor. Again that is brand new with a warranty. And people say manuals don't sell. When we found ours which was the Touring Edition, not Limited we had to drive almost 1 1/2 hours away to get it because they were all sold out everywhere else and that was right at the beginning of COVID. You can find them used but they hold their value INCREDIBLY well so we decided to spend the extra to get our new with a warranty. Our Honda dealer was amazing which I know is not true for everyone.
Dealers scalping these cars are the reasons people won't fucking buy them. "American enthusiasts whine about a lack of cool cars, but then they don't buy them!!" That's how manufacturers justify keeping the cool stuff out. But the dealer markups are the real reason people don't buy. It's disgusting.
Got my civic in 2018, paid 37850 out the door. A 70k civic is laughable, dealers can get away with it because there are people out there stupid enough to pay it.
You are insane. This Type R can feel even more special to drive than supercars and it's absolutely worth every penny. It's very affordable for what it provides, at 40 to 50, 60 thousand euros it's so amazing.
A limited edition Civic Type R, with the upcharge, is kinda like a limited edition toilet for your house. Sure, it's rare n' all.. but in the end, you're just gonna sh$#*t in it anyway, just like you would a regular toilet. All Civics get used that same way.
As much as I appreciate Honda building this type R and bringing it to the United States after all these years this car is just so ugly this whole generation of Honda Civic is just so ugly regardless of how this car performs I could never buy one just based on looks alone. Hopefully Honda can't get it right next time and build a good looking car with performance now that would be a Honda i would consider 🤔
At MSRP the kind of performance Honda was able to achieve with this car is simply AMAZING not to mention you have usable back seats and a very large and usable trunk. In the face of the electric future and the 6-speed manual transmission being rarer, the "regular" Type R is already a modern classic so this Limited Edition will be a future Holy Grail car. I also love the way this car looks. I love it so much I bought a 2019 Type R. I was very fortunate to get it at MSRP and the car drives like a dream. It is our family car and has made car enthusiasts out of everyone in our family. Well done Honda! I don't know what the future holds but I am glad I was able to get a car like this when I could.
After years, I am beginning to warm up to the exterior Tonka Toy design style. But if they could get the price down without the markup I'm interested at 45K.
Absolutely love my Type R, and would love this edition even more especially with the reduced sound dampening. But it still blows my mind that some dealers in the US would try to sell these for $70k!
From the drivers seat you can't see the wing or crazy design... but you can FEEL what it's like to drive. That is the bottom line with these cars. It's easy to poke fun at them, but if you're lucky enough to drive one - you'll get it. I don't get why anyone would pay the crazy markup for an LE, but I do get why people still desire the CTR 4 years in. I enjoy the hell out of mine, and given the resale value it's almost like driving a free car. And a GREAT DRIVING free car at that!
“If the Cayman GT4 had these gear ratios” - are GT4 owners hearing this!! Send the message to Porsche! The ratios are why a GT4 is not in my collection.
Wish Honda had gone the route of a GT3 Touring (i.e., no spoiler) model, that doesn’t look like a grade school student designed it in the 1980s... I’m sure it’s a great car, but it just looks ridiculous.
@@georgeboyd4619 Apparently you haven't been paying attention to the Integra Type R market recently. Low mileage cars are popping up here and there and selling for HUGE money...like E30 M3 money.
To your point, I haven't really seen that but I'm sure that does happen. It's honestly a shame. Let's hope that's the exception and not the rule. I drive a 91 NSX with over 100k miles as well as an 02 S2K with over 150k miles. I was in the market for an integra type R and used to see them going for under 20k a couple years ago with an average of 60-85k miles on the clock. Have not seen current prices though. Thanks for the info and let's hope this trend does not continue. All cars- especially Honda's, need to be driven and experienced... Not rot away in some schmooze's garage somewhere lol
Vous avez absolument raison. J’ai la fk8 normal et j’ai hésité à m’acheter l’édition limitée. Après un essai sur route ouverte près de chez moi, je n’ai pas ressenti de différence flagrante. Ce qui aurait pu me conforter dans cette achat aurait été une nouvelle expérience de conduite. Ce n’est absolument pas le cas. Je ne veux pas payer plus cher un véhicule qui n’est que très très légèrement plus efficace, en perdant une grande quantité d’agréments de conduites.
Man this thing halls. For some reason I feel the sense of speed in this vid a lot more than your other ones. Seems like this car really gives you the confidence to wring it out
Isn’t it?? I would’ve picked one up if it wasn’t marked up so high. I settled for the normal Civic Hatchback, though, and still love the heck out of it. I plan on keeping it for many years, but I’ll always wonder “what if”. But I guess getting used to that feeling of not having the absolute best thing is part of growing up and being mature, you know? Appreciating what you have and stuff. It’s helped me learn that.
@@jSyndeoMusic For sure! Glad you like your civic - I have a Fiesta ST and I really love it as well. Whenever I spend too long online with cool car videos or on car configurators dreaming of the "what if" I find it best to go get in my car and remind myself that I am lucky enough to have that and I fall in love over and over again!
@@thecodynowak Totally!! I went on a countryside drive across my state and back again a bit after typing that comment, and had a total blast. When I’m accelerating hard and feeling that rush, or banking around sweeping curves, I absolutely love my car, and it’s really nice being able to totally love what you already have, and like you said, counting our blessings. Besides, the Type R doesn’t come with a sunroof, and little things like that are parts of the joys of road trips for me-windows down, sunroof open, just cruising along and loving life. It’s awesome.
I absolutely love when Zach takes the wheel and Matt follows it up realtively quickly with "Zach is absolutely mobbing" and looks slightly nervous... It's like that same expression that every guest that brings a car for Matt to drive has when he takes the wheel :P
Give my regards to Scott Evil, but for maximum driving experience in the twisties, front wheel drive does not do it for me, And also for me, its price is a non-starter. Instead I bought an ND2 Mx-5, and would have zero problem staying with these guys on this road. But more important, my MX-5’s RWD drivability and full-time driver engagement makes a trip to the local Safeway an experience.
