Man I’ve said this many times but lance could start a RU-vid and it’d explode the man is a massive wealth of machine rebuilding knowledge not to mention the vet knowledge and big business. Plus his personality seems easy to take and he would be able to teach in a manner allot of teachers these days just can’t simply because they don’t have the passion for it
Ran one of those ProtoTraks for several years in a tool room for machine maintenance. Simply awesome machines, very capable, easy to program on the fly.
This video is very interesting to me because given the timeframe of when I ordered my 6" set and when I received them I'm pretty sure my set is somewhere in that stack of boxes.
Always nice to see Lance and the work he does in his shop. I've been wanting to get some precision stones from him for a while and I'll probably order some soon. Once you start using stones (precision ground), you'll realize what you've been missing and won't want to continue without them. They're a must have for machinists but not only, they're a great tool even for metal fabricators or also woodworkers and hobbyists. Passing them on the mill table every now and then makes a big difference and even stoning parts off the mill can give you a very nice finish if you don't have a surface grinder and will also improve precision in your parts.
Always lots of fun to work in / see other folks' shops! Keep showing us that new shop progress! Thanks Adam. Loved those photos in the restaurant! Great family I'm sure.
Lance is an exceptionally generous person. In the early days of his creating the precision flat stones, I tried to buy a set, but he sent them to me for free. He didn't know me from Adam (pun intended), but gave them to me anyway. I really cherish the gift.
haven't watched the videos in a while, glad you're doing well Adam. this was fascinating both the machining and the teaching aspect... take it easy everyone, be nice, have fun
Happy to have found you guys , watching for some time now . Another channel to add to the list 26 Acer . I found Rob Rense some yrs. ago , through some electrical test gear he custom made , too late to get in on the 10 he made ;( My experience 1st 9th grade shop class [ do know of any place doing now ;( , then auto repair , next gunsmithing with shooting competition , no longer have space --- so you guys make me miss / but enjoy ;) Thanks
for all those wondering what these are for, they are called precision ground flat stones. they are used to grind flat a surface that had been machined very flat since machining sometimes leaves behind burrs. grinding it with these stones leaves it as close to perfect as you can get
Great video, I appreciate the generous spirit. I did have a few notes that could be constructive though. It only takes a second with a squeege on the chuck, maybe that's why the extra time "sparking" out was needed because the stones would be flexing a bit if sitting on even the smallest piece of grit. I flip them twice because there's likely to be flex on the first side, and on the second flip it's just a fine cut, so both stones can be done at the same height setting and will be virtually matched in thickness too which could come in handy.. Grinding the sides square is nice too. I realize tuning new machines is a process and maybe you're aware of this but that chuck looks like it was ground with the wheel either out of round or out of balance... Rock on!
I've been waiting for this video!! It's a nice coincidence seeing as I just ordered a set of these last week or so, can't wait to receive them. Maybe mine were in that pile on the table :) lol. love seeing lances shop, and Adam's videos!
I understand from the comments, specifically @mazur under @Ian Furlong's comment, that these stones are used to, "flaten the high spots on the tables for a mill or any other flat metal surface." That being said, what is added to the stones' capacity as shown in this video? Why are Norton ~ $25 stones cut in two, machined, and then sold for $230? I am not a machinist, plead ignorance, but am here to listen, watch, and learn.
Robin Renzetti has a good video describing them: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DVLXsq7pi9Y.html The short version is that the original stones aren't very flat, and the grit in them will scratch flat surfaces they're used on. After precision grinding they're very flat, and the grit won't scratch another flat surface they're used on. They'll only remove high spots, but because they're so flat when used on another flat surface they won't cut the main surface, and they therefore won't distort the shape. You're paying for time on a surface grinder with a diamond wheel. If you have a surface grinder, it's cheaper to make your own, but *lots* of machinists don't have surface grinders, they're quite expensive. And anyone working to high precision (mostly toolmakers) needs a precision ground flat stone, and usually such people make good money and can afford a good precision-ground stone set. They're also always made in pairs, so that they can be used against one another to even their surfaces out before use, thus cutting the Norton stones in half.
Man I use a 12" level daily for my work. Leveling a TV on a wall with is easy, but these levels that exist for the accuracy you are trying to acheive are just crazy. I wonder how "off" I am with my level. Normally if a tv or a 3gang switch plate look level with the naked eye they are level, but if you put one of these precision levels on them they would be way off in the precision machinist world. thanks
NICE, this is much easier, and I am sure more accurate than hand lapping. why only2? I have always used sets of 3 so I can keep them flat between jobs by lapping them.
The absolute precision never ceases to amaze me Adam. I do have a few question's though. 1-> "How often do you need to check the 'machines' for proper alignment?". 2-> "Do 'machines' come with a installed bubble level sensor, that can 'activate an alarm of sorts', if it goes out of a certain pre-set range?". The reason I ask, is because, I also have an OCD (LOL) watching the USGS earthquake map. For example if you're away on the Big Haul, and something happens back home, that you were not aware of. I can say for certain now, I'm over the worry of metal chips miss aliening things from watching Kurtis (CEEA)😅. It's really fascinating to watch you guys work. I caught this bug back in the day when NASA was repairing the Hubble Telescope, and the precision that took. Cheers, Blessings! ....ps: One final question, for something completely different that I do, "Do you treat any 'sliding' surfaces with graphite?" Because under a microscope, metal looks like the Rocky Mountains🤔🤫.
Now I know why my stones were "delayed". I have a pair on order from Lance and he just shipped them this week. I guess his "guest" delayed his schedule somewhat. Just kidding guys, it's nice to be able to see what's potentially "your stuff" going through the process. Thanks to Lance and Adam. Greetings from Canada's banana belt. 👍🇨🇦🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲🤞
The grinding hold downs in the thumbnail. One thing we used to do in the shaper was to use sections of power hacksaw blades to hold the stock more securely in the vise. And when grinding bench stones. The surfaces really do not need to be parallel. A grinding vise will do. Or two sided tape. Just put some card stock between the jaws and the work. Used to use computer punch cards or something similiar.
So, am I the only one that keeps hearing "Can't Grinder"? I know it's Kent but it's funny to hear you guys talking about precision grinding precision stones with the "Can't Grinder"... lol
I see those are Norton stones. I live 16 miles from one of their 'Arkansas Stone' manufactures (and there are others in my area also).....and there are no shortage of small arkansas stones available....if that is what you're looking for.
They're not that difficult to learn however once you learn it it's like riding a bike you'll never forget how to run it plus there's a lot of information out there for those prototrak machines
I like Lance's shop update. I've been looking at getting some of those stones for a while. Just placed my order. But you need to put a mic on Lance when you have him in these videos. He's too quiet.
Enjoyed the video. Why does a set need to be dimension matched if all you are doing is deburring surfaces? Is there some other purpose or something I'm missing?
I am kind of interested in testing my naniwa water stones compared to these stock oil stones for flatness. Then testing for flatness a waterstone that had the traditional japanese way of flattening. Obviously Lance's ground stones are precision grounded to so they far flatter, just wondering how much of a difference in flatness.
I really like Lance, i think he's a really cool guy. But i'm bummed he got rid of some of his machines. I was really hoping to see that planer he was rebuilding running. Not the Rockford openside but the other one he had.
You level to eliminate twists and bends in the machines ways. You are correct that the machine doesn't actually have to be level to be straight, but leveling is easy and gets you most of the way there. If the machine is not straight after leveling that's when you need to start pulling out shims and whatnot.
@@kal5169 What they don't show in this, to your point, is verifying the "level" at multiple points to make sure that it is consistent across the entire table and ways. However, with only three feet on that particular grinder there really isn't a good way to get twist out in this setup without shimming the ways themselves. With this grinder though, since it only really matters that the bed is parallel with the spindle where the wheel makes contact with the work, leveling is really only important for coolant drainage.
@Ian Furlong mazur is correct. The stone is slid over the table surfaces gently to ensure there is no debris, that cannot be seen or felt. Its another 'Machinists tool' used to verify precision of the working machine they use. Cheers.
Why is it so critical to have these machine so level? I can see that having the ways parallel to the spindle and tailstock, (lathe) or the blade perpendicular to the table (table saw) or the bed in line with the head. (Mill.) If all the parts of the machine are aligned to each other, you should be able to jack up one side, a few inches, and it would STILL be "dead nuts on." Take a surface plate. If one of the 3 feet was 3 inches off, would it not be flat? (Not level, but flat.) steve
as far as I know, it doesnt have to be level, but due to twisting and stuff, it is a good baseline to set things to although im not a machinist, I just watch for fun
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
@@WoodCutr1, I agree! I assemble high priced woodworking tools fora living. (I've got a brand new SawStop 3 HP Pro in my shop, that came in with a cracked trunnion, that I will fix tomorrow.) I KNOW the difference between aligned and level. Aligned NEEDS to be as close as you can make it. Level, well the bubble on a cheap combination square should be fine. (Although 1/2 inch off will NOT hurt a thing.) steve
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila, I disagree. If someone is buying a set of matched stones, they need to match. (And, they will, even if matched on a non level machine.) steve
Steve Skouson: No, it’s not critical at all to precision level heavy milling machines and surface grinders. I’ve ground thousands of extremely hard CPM-10 parts to + - .0002 tolerance over the last 25 years without checking the machine level once. What matters for this type of work is the correct grade of balanced grinding wheel properly dressed and a very flat magnetic chuck surface ground on the same machine.
I understand the stones are flat and everything but a pair of 1x2x6 stones is about $40 before grinding. What justifies adding nearly $200 to the cost of the stones?
It is well worth $200 to not have to do it by hand. (many hours worth of hand lapping.) The diamond wheels and grinder are not cheap as well as other shop expenses. I am sure he makes a profit but not as much as you might think.
Buy the machinery and spend the time perfecting the craft in order to get these things flat within 50 millionths of an inch and I’m sure it’ll make a little more sense
@@Hoodedhorn You honestly think it’s that difficult to grind a stone flat? People do it by hand with lapping compound, having the grinder is easy compared to that 🤣
@@justinl.3587 Key words there are “50 millionths of an inch.” If you’re able to do that by hand I would love to see n in depth explanation of how you got it done.
Very good Kinematic observation and in absolute terms the best approach. Having said that the first 500 or so stones I ground were done that way. Now I have found it makes absolutely no difference in the final result. We make sure the stone is stable in the set up for the first side, don't care one bit about parallelism....
REALLY dumb question time. If the whole machine is on the same feet, why be soooo precise with levelling? Won’t all the attachments move together? i.e. the precision is inherent within the machine not dependant on the bed being level? 😳
I take this back. Someone else has asked the same question. And was answered brilliantly. 👍 When dealing with the tolerances requirements of these units, any and all induced errors, must be minimised if not eliminated. This is an aspect of life that, although not previously exposed to, I find endlessly interesting. Keep educating us, for some, it’s worth it. 👍
These machines, lathes etc, remember are extremely heavy. So while its not so super critical for most people, having it as level as possible means the machine is not twisting under its own weight. High precision machines can be sensitive to even you walking around it unless they are on very thick concrete slabs.
He's just unnecessarily anal. There's no need to use a 199 level on a machine that's 3-pointed. Just like there's no need to have the stones' lengths, widths, and heights ground to match. As long as the faces are flat, obsessing over the other things has zero effect on the stones' performance.
When I flatten my stones I stick a piece of waterproof sand paper to float glass with water. Put a grid of pencil lines on the stone and wet it then rub it across the sandpaper. It flattens very quickly. If there are any pencil marks on the stone it indicates low points and I have keep flattening it. Far quicker and cheaper than using a machine
That methoud will get you reasonably close within plus or minus a few thousand if your lucky, I use sets of three stones and hand lap them this gets me within a few ten thousand but takes forever. his stones are true to 50 millionths of an inch. so while you are not wrong. what you do, and what he does are not even close to the same thing.
That's the equivalent of people saying, "it's not a clip, it's a magazine." They say it because they heard it before, and they want to act like they know what they're talking about.
@@michaelkoch2109 I've seen just a small chuck key from a drillpress flying like a bullet , it stuck half an inch deep in a concrete wall. Don't want to know what such a chuck key does, with this walls it'll probably get right through it and stuck in your customers new truck if you're lucky. Ist es nicht der "Backenfutterschlüssel" ? bin kein Metaller außer musikalisch 😉
@@FabFunty"Backenfutterschlüssel" kann man auch sagen. Sagt aber kaum jemand so. Ich höre zwar gerne Musik (auch Metal), Aber ich bin musikalisch vollkommen untalentiert. Wenn ich singe, dann rennen die Leute in den Luftschutzbunker ... :-))
With enough use, the stones will wear down and not be as flat. This minimized by trying to use the full surface of the stone instead of just the middle or edge. These are really intended for light use on surfaces that are already quite flat. Also, most of these are sold in pairs and you are meant to rub the stones together a little before you use them in order to even out any wear. If they do become to worn to be used as precision surfaces, they could re-ground. The thickness will change, but the exact thickness isn't important.
