Thanks Rob. I recently purchased the same unit, Forbes brand, and your videos have been very helpful. I popped down to the saw doctor at Edwardstown and got a blade. Helpful staff. Recommended me the cheaper carbon blade in the event that my newly acquired unit turned out to be a dud. That's the kind of service I appreciate...not trying to squeeze every $ out of you.
The guide bearings are 6000Z or 6000ZZ. To press them on use a suitable diameter socket to bear on the centre section and not damage the races. I used a 12 mm, but an 11 or even a 10 mm would probably be OK. NEVER hammer on bearings when fitting.
Hi Rob, thanks for the tips, mine started throwing the blade off but at least they didn’t break. Anyway I replaced the six bearings when on of the bearing outer shells broke during tensioning. $2.50 each at the bearing shop so I’m not complaining, and they have the rubberised seals. Turns out the vertical bearings are smaller in mine but thankfully they are the same size as skateboard bearings which I had plenty of. That fixed the problem straight away with the longest part of the job being tuning the blade to cut true. I wouldn’t put a micrometer on it but it’s good according to a square. Cheers mate, Stuart Canberra.
Hi Stuart, all good. If the blade scrapes the whole depth of the cut as you lift it on completion, it means the cut is dead on vertical. Mine always does that and it's a satisfying sound ;) Metal shields are probably better with the fine cuttings, but there's probably not much difference really. The nylon seals seem to handle most things OK. Everything wears out eventually. Cheers Rob
Good stuff Rob. And that was a nice neat fix. Having the right bearings in stock must be a very gratifying experience, that doesn't happen very often for me :) Shame about the carbon steel blade going pop, at least it wasn't an expensive bimetal one. I'll definitely keep a record of that blade place for when I next need bandsaw blades. I've used Lenox in the past (while in the UK) for things like jigsaw blades and holesaws, and they are first rate tools. Not cheap, but I don't think that you get a better blade. I have never used lenox bandsaw blades - but I'll definitely be searching for and ordering 'diemaster' when the time comes, probably through that SA company. Cheers from sunny Hobart, Craig
Hi Craig, It will be interesting to see how well the blade lasts. The previous blades from that company have always been excellent. I bought those bearings so I was ready to replace them when they went all wobbly (what I expected) and it is an old saw. But they didn't, they started to seize up instead. Big surprise. Cheers Rob
Carbon steel blades will do all right in softer steel alloys, as soon as you need to deal with the higher grades materials carbon steel blades will wear real fast. Bi-metal or HSS and better blades will pay for themselves real fast as they last much longer and cut better. Just make sure that you install a new blade you break them in, this will at least double their life...
@@Xynudu The Diemaster bi-metal variable pitch blades are a game changer on a 4x6 saw! Been using them for years, and I can verify that they run for an extremely long time!
very timely video Rob, my bandsaw, harbour freight, but exactly the same, is playing up, not breaking but keeps throwing the blade, seems to have developed a wobble on the bottom wheel, so I think when I investigate that I'll give it the full Xynudu treatment, handy to know what bearings I'm after before I start, just relooked at your other bandsaw video again and will give the top wheel the same as yours, great video as usual Rob, Thanks, ATB Cliff
Hi Cliff, I had to rebuiild the top (idler) spindle and shaft on my secondhand saw as it was badly worn. Since then I have used ordinary moly automotive grease on it but it tends to displace and wear into black goo after some time. So this time around I have serviced the spindle with Loctite LB767 which I have always used on the covered lathe leadscrew. This is amazing (but messy) stuff as it appears to have a high graphite/metal content and locks onto the metal surfaces. After years of use it is still in place doing it's job and no discoloration. So it will be interesting to see how it goes on the spindle shaft/bush. It is only suitable for slow speed applications. I also changed the gearbox oil and replaced it with Delvac 80W - 140 full synthetic limited slip differential oil (left over from a job). Seemed about the same viscosity. This will not attack the bronze gear (as some oils can). The oil that was in there was pretty dirty and I doubt it had ever been changed in forty years. Mechanically the gears looked good, so the oil was still working. Cheers Rob
It took a while to find, but the drive pulley on my ENCO (Taiwan) saw - identical to Rob's - had a flat place! Turned up a suitable mandrel and turned about 0.020" off the outside diameter. Stopped the problem. Probably due to a "green" casting. The saw is about 20 years old now and cuts well but has never cut dead true as to square. I have adjusted and adjusted. One of these days I am going to mill the brackets for the guides to be dead square with the table. Thanks for the video.
@@geoffmorgan6059 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0Z-xRzI6nEI.html Hi Geoff, this covers most likely areas to check, including shimming between the cutting arm and rear pivot point. When it's cutting correctly you should hear the blade scrape along the full height of the cut face (saw off) when raising and lowering the blade after a cut is finished. If that's not happening then it's set wrong. The saws always tend to cut inwards from top to bottom when they are wrong. Too much feed pressure will also make them cut off line vertically. It's genrally fixable without too much work. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the tip... I'm having issues with my Dayton saw ...[looks the same as yours] sticking on SS tubing... It will cut though it but I have to babysit it the whole cut. Hoping that this fix will allow me to walk away from the saw.
Great diagnostic/repair video. I've got nearly the identical saw, as I'm sure do many of your viewers. I'll be checking out your linked videos on the purchase of the saw and the improved plate. Thanks for sharing.
I have a similar unit made for Milwaukee Pneumatic Tool. Mine kept building up swarf on the wheels and overtightening itself. I stopped oiling the blade to prevent it but blade life is a lot less. Do you lube the blade? If so what with?
I only use lube when it needs it (for aluminium - definitely) and for big hot cuts in steel stock. I use a thin kerosene and engine oil mix (4:1). Normally I run dry and the saw doctor says that's fine. He also said regardless of lube, the biggest wear factor is blade speed - keep it as low as possible to prevent chipping, burning teeth and the blade will last years. So that's what I do, and it does exactly what he said. That Bi-metal blade had been on there a long time. Cheers Rob
You sure they're not 6000ZZ bearings? 26mm outside, 10mm inside, 8mm thick. The ZZ (or 2Z)means it's got metal seals on both sides. I only know coz I replaced one in a saw motor last weekend!
Yes, you're right Andrew. I wrote down the right numbers but left the paper in the shed and went from memory - my bad. I will correct it. I have both numbers looking at the old and the new bearings and both have metal seals. I think I bought them off Ebay years ago. They look the same to me. Thanks for the pick up. Cheers Rob
Hi Peter, Yes, I think it's time to look at a few more things. The gearbox oil is definitely over due for a change and this saw has done a LOT of work. So I guess that's what I will be doing today. Cheers Rob
Thanks Rob for the great vid. Were all 6 bearings the same size? I've got the Hafco equivalent saw. I haven't got it apart yet but the bearing on the top (that bears on the top of the blade) seems a smaller OD than the two side ones. I got this second hand and with 'alignment issues' so I don't know if someone has mucked with it an put incorrect size bearings in there.
Hi Bill, the bearings should all be the same size/diameter. I can only guess that a smaller one has been fitted to try to bring the back side of the blade further on to the pulley LOL. I'm guessing this is the bottom/drive pulley. The blade normally does not run close to the rear shoulder of the drive pulley. The blade should however run close to the shoulder on the idler/top pulley. Cheers Rob
It's interesting to hear people talking about "coolant". It's really more about lubrication as things shouldn't get smoking hot, same as on a lathe. People run this stuff too fast and then wonder why blades wear out fast. The advice from my saw works is to run the saw as slow as possible to get maximum life out of the blade. You DO however need lube for aluminium, that's a definite. Cheers Rob
You say the bearings are 6000Z or 6000ZZ - well I am going to get a supply for mine. My saw gets used everyday they may well need attention. I suppose we can find them on ebay or amazon? Thank you Rob. It was good to hear your voice again!
Hi Glenn, the number will be marked on the metal side shields of your bearings. I expect they will all be the same number as I quoted. Pretty generic bearing. I bought these in and had them ready to go as I expected they would fail (go sloppy) at some stage as the saw is old, but I never expected them to seize up. Anyway, best to be prepared and they are cheap - on Ebay etc. Cheers Rob
Hey Rob, hope you are well. I have the same bandsaw as you and when I cut RHS/90 degree angle iron my blade comes off. I have the blade tight, any thoughts as to why this may be happening. Blade is new, no missing teeth or bends etc. I have tried positioning the steel in various positions, closed up the blade gate spacing. ??????? Could you consult your crystal ball and possibly give me some areas to investigate. Oh, I don't have any seized or damaged bearings. A couple of them have minor wear grooves. Thanks heaps for any of your thoughts.
Hi John, usually blade binding causes this. Maybe the teeth are too coarse for the metal thickness or the downward pressure is too high. Try it with lubrication on the cut area and see if that reduces it. Also check that the blade edge is very close to the shoulder on the idler wheel. It should track within 1 mm. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks Rob I'll have a look at what you have suggested. The metal that always causes the blade to come off is RHS or angle iron whatever term you are familiar with. No matter which way I position it always the same result.
Hi again John, aluminium solid square or round section can definitely pop the blade off if you don't use lube to prevent binding in the cut, especially if you use a blade meant for steel (it usually has a higher TPI). Binding/catching is rarely an issue with steel RSJ or channel provided it's not rolled. If it is rolled section then the number of teeth on the blade need to be increased or it will catch on the thin gauge metal. There is a formula specifying how many (minimum number) teeth should be in the cut relative to metal cross section. I use a 16 or 18 TPI blade for most things. Going coarser than that will cut faster, but can cause problems on thin steel sheet. It's not ideal for aluminium, but works OK provided you use lube (kerosene). Cheers Rob
That one set of bearings were really shot. I have a saw that is very similar to yours but was sold by Enco back when they were in business. I've had mine for about 28 years now and it's been a workhorse; except, I cannot seem to get to the point where I get a blade to last long enough. I will get everything all lined up and adjusted, put in a new blade, get nice straight square cuts, then the blade breaks unexpectedly. Oddly, it's not always at the weld either. I have spent countless hours trying to analyze the saw and its weak points and cannot figure why the end up fatiguing then breaking. Upon close examination, I have noticed these cracks that form perpendicular to the length of the blade. The are obviously stress cracks but I cannot figure out how the stress is being induced in the blades. I run the speed slow and keep the downward pressure as light as practical and still the blades end up breaking.
I have basically the same saw, they have many brand names but they're all the same. I love mine one of the best tools l've ever purchased. They are light and versitile, easy to move around the shop.
This makes me think mine might have a similar issue. I break blades fairly often. I have a bandsaw blade welding machine but it's annoying having to mess around with it. Plus they're never quite as good afterwards. Thanks for the demonstration.
Hi Alex, I was a bit surprised that the guide bearings were starting to seize up, but I did see some comments from another owner who had the same issue. So it must be one of those things that will happen on high usage machines. Pity it broke the blade as it was still as sharp as new after many hours of use. The new one is Lenox brand and supposed to cut twice as fast (according to the blurb), so we will see ;) Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu yup they definitely get a lot of grit in them and are under a fair bit of pressure. The issue with mine is it tracks terribly. I probably just need to spend time getting it dialed in. The middle bearing on it has a ridge in the middle so if that's the problem I'll probably have to order it from the manufacturer. I've been making my own blades off of a big roll and welding them so maybe a store bought would be better also. Either way it's just a matter getting to it. Thanks!
Hi Alex, the guide bearings are a standard size available from any bearing supplier or online. The bearing you want is 6000ZZ. Widely used and not very expensive. Cheers Rob
Rob I'm not sure how this broke the blades. They are only a guide and do not grip the blade of should I say they are not suppose to grip the blade. My saw is brand new and I have had 2 blades to break in the joint where it was welded. I'm not sure whether it was a cheep blade of poor welds. I have welded them back together my self and heat treated them 1works well and the other one broke again in the weld. In my opinion I think that a real good quality blade is the answer. Problem I am having in the U .S . Is I'm not sure what is a good name brand. And prices is all over the board on them.
Hi Anthony, I suspect that when the bearing pinched up, so did the blade to rollers fit, possibly with the cuttings build up. Since the fix all is OK again. I backed off one roller a bit at the same time. I use top quality blades from a saw doctor shop (Lenox brand). I have never had one break at the join. I did try brazing a blade up once, but it didn't last long before the join separated. Not worth the effort. They are electrically welded in the shop. This is much more resistant to flex. Go see your local saw works for blades. The ones available from tool suppliers are generally low grade and probably more expensive. Cheers Rob
Just say'n ZZ metal shielded bearings part of problem, they're called shields not seals. Rubber sealed bearings 2RS better, you could use shim washers for impact damage. Enjoyed the DAWN (vice) bearing press, head and shoulders above hammering them on as most young players do. RU-vid does love rattle can engineering, I'd suggest a spray of something glossy when you have a machine apart to ease viewer assembly anxiety.
If you turn the pulleys on the motor and drive spindly over you will bring the belt closer to the bearings and will dramatically reduce the toque pressure on the bearings and should reduce the noise also
Hi Glenn, apparently yes. I'm no expert on this subject but by all accounts you should keep the speed and feed rate low to begin with to give the blade a chance to wear into position/profile. So I do it regardless and all seems to work well. I've never had chipped teeth on the blade. but then again I don't stress out the unit when cutting thin stuff. Cheers Rob
Surprising that it would bind enough to stall and break the blade, I'm better look at my own saw, it may be needing some TLC before I live the same problems you got... 😱😎👍 It's at least over 15 yo and never got too much maintenance, just use and abuse...
Hi Pierre, It surprised me when it came out of the blue. It's made me feel guilty now, so I'm going into maintenance mode today and will change the gearbox oil (which is definitely dirty) and lube the idler wheel spindle. This is an old saw and it had done a LOT of work even before I got it. The blade has never sat right in on the drive pulley, but seems to go OK. I had to rebuild the idler pulley spindle and bush as it was so worn. I will give it all a check over. Trouble with this stuff is that time ticks away and there is no real maintenance schedule in my workshop ;) Cheers Rob
Your plate for table sawing looks to be the cat's pajamas... you don't have to take it on and off when using the saw for cut-off. What are it's dimensions? That would save the trial and error of fitting one for the saw. I lubricate the blade with cutting oil applied with an acid brush. Not as effective as a coolant pump, but a lot less trouble than trying to contain the coolant. Water soluble oil coolant in the home shop is about more trouble than it's worth. It does work great if you use it every day and keep the oil/water mix correct, but using it once a week often leaves a stinky sticky mess to clean up.
A word to the wise, check your oil in the gear box, I neglected this and after many years of good service the worm gear stripped out. Couldn’t find a replacement part so I bought a new saw , but it doesn’t work near as good as the old one did.
I fully serviced the saw yesterday and changed the oil in the gearbox. No leaks so it was still full, but very dirty. Everything looked in good shape mechanically. I replaced the oil with full synthetic 80W - 140 Delvac limited slip differential oil as it looked about the same viscosity. This will also not attack the bronze gear (as some oils can). Cheers Rob
I have a similar bandsaw. Bought it about 25 years ago. The blade keeps slipping off of the drive pulley when there is any increase in resistance during the cut. I have to monitor it constantly. I have never been able to fix this with new blades or adjustments. Maybe I’m adjusting it wrong. Any ideas how to fix it?
My blade has always run proud on the drive pulley even when the blade is close to the flange on the idler pulley. I have looked at how to correct this and I think the idler pulley has to be moved back more so the pulley faces are co-planar (on the same level). It hasn't really worried me as the blade only pops off if it jams, which is actually a good thing as you're less likely to break it. Cheers Rob
They're good. Bit expensive new but you can often pick them up secondhand for 1/3 of the price. Not much to go wrong with them. I replaced the standard 1/3 HP motor with a 1 HP unit and it's effortless the way it cuts through stuff . Cheers Rob
Hi Rob! i have the same rong fu here in perth that was breaking blades as well. but i think i was tightening to tight as there were hundreds of stress fractures in my blades. plus i changed the bearing guides but the tracking is maxed out one way so i cant get it true. Any ideas on best tension to put on the blade? also what TPI is your Bimetal blade?
Hi Troy, It's 14 TPI as that can do most stuff OK. I've had no breakage issues before, except where the job moved once and pinched the blade. Never had any stress fractures in any blades. The tracking is a bit tricky to get right. With the arm vertical, loosen the middle hex bolt slightly, loosen the top bolt more and the blade tension, then screw in the bottom grub screw to bring the blade in towards the idler pulley flange. Re-tension the blade to see where it now tracks and if looking good tighten the two bolts while re-adjusting blade tension. The blade has always run proud of the drive pulley even when it was close to the flange on the idler pulley. When you tension the blade it will screw to a point fairly easily and then get hard to turn. Don't force it past that point. I hope this helps. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu cheers Rob I'll give it a go on the morrow and see if I can get it better. I was told by the bandsaw people that it was too tight but I had gone to a thicker blade than what was originally on it that's why it fractured but I think it was a combination of things. Thank your for replying
Hi Troy, As that Rong Fu is an old machine, I would definitely check the idler pulley spindle shaft and pulley wheel bush for wear. Mine was in a bad way and I had to rebuild both (the saw had done a LOT of work). Obviously any wear there will limit tracking adjustment. So make that your first priority and go from there. I've put a link at the end of the video to how I rebuilt the worn shaft etc. Cheers Rob
Troy, it's pretty hard to get a blade too tight to effect it. The consideration is how stout the frame and bearings are. Too loose and the blade will wander through the cut creating entry and exit stress. You want it pretty tight but equal wheel pressure on the back and front of the blade or the blade will stretch on one side while passing over the wheels then compress on the straightaways which can cause fatigue cracking. Also, if chips are carried between the wheel and blade the same will happen. A blade wiper brush behind the cut can mitigate that. 3rd, a blade too thick or brittle for your wheel size can do that. Bulk carbon blade stock made for a 20" wheel that's been run on 12" wheels will crack. Bi-matallic blades tend to be thinner / more flexible. +1 on checking your spindles. Good luck!
