I well remember the ending of Return of the King: _He drew a deep breath. 'Well, I'm back,' he said. 'Please remember to like, subscribe and leave a comment on this book. Also, I have a Patreon!'_
6:15 I’m fairly certain Tolkien got the idea of “orc’s work” from the story of St. Augustine’s pears. Augustine steals pears from an orchard with his friends only for them to not eat them and throw them away. This led Augustine to the question of why he would steal pears when no apparent necessity drove him to do so. This act revealed to Augustine that mankind is inherently evil, acting upon the wickedness of their hearts in a manner not always based on logic or need. This revelation ultimately led Augustine to seek out Ambrose which in turn led to his conversion to Christianity.
And that’s how Augustine invented the unbiblical heresy of Original Sin. He may have had a decent philosophical mind, but he was a horrible and syncretic theologian.
Surprising how detailed this video is. Some of the other specialist Tolkien channels haven't covered this in as much depth. Well done James for bringing these remenants to life.
@@hayothegunosaurus facts, Wally is the best Flash Not really fair tho, he was in JL and JLU, so he was most people's main flash as children But it goes to show how good of a character Wally is, that Barry got a bunch of his storylines in the CW Flash show
I usually come here to try say something funny, but I just want to say thanks man. Your videos are so consistently interesting and funny and always brighten my day. So yeah. Just keep up the great work.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I’d certainly be interested in more high fantasy stuff from you James. We all love superheroes and comic books here but I for one would love to see more fantasy themed content. There’s just so much green trivia to learn!
Would like some more fantasy stuff in general. Specifically, Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea novels and how Hollywood just cannot for the life of them adapt those stories right.
@@ealing456 LeGuin wrote a great essay just ripping into an adaptation of Wizard of Earthsea. There's an interesting anime adaptation of the third book in the series by Studio Gibli, though.
@@eastvandb yeah, I remember reading it. Brilliant. Le Guin never held back on these things, right until the end. Have you seen her speech for the lifetime achievement award for the National Book Foundation? Incredibly biting. I guess I was thinking of the Studio Ghibli version too when I said Hollywood. They didn't really 'get' her work either unfortunately but it is an improvement on that miniseries. And, it dared to adapt a third book in the series to start with, like you said.
Something I find interesting about this idea is that Sauron has a history of starting out genuinely trying to establish peace and order and rebuild a world thats constantly going downhill but always ends up going too far and this feels the perfect setup for that
I can see him being brought back by curious young people that are dissatisfied with the world, and he would see that as Men asking him to return and complete his plan because the world has gone to shit in his absence. The plot works, I just don't want anyone to write it because they'll have unchecked capitalists watching over every decision and wanting 6 movies and a tv show.
What a surprising and refreshing topic from what I had assumed was a fandom comedy channel. I'm a Tolkien nerd, but even I had never heard of the unpublished Fourth Age story before. Thank you for this!
Great video. I love your deep dives. They may not ultimately get the same views as some other videos but they bring something else back to the table that has been largely missing of late.
Awesome to see a LotR lore video like this from my fave channel. Really love the detail youve gone into in this. I'm looking forward to getting Middle-earth content forever now those movie rights are just out there now, I'm sure there will be some half decent content to come.
Really great video with all the detail. I think Tolkien actually agreed with what you said about it being able to be an enthralling story, because he knew he was capable of writing something gripping. It seems that he just found it depressing personally and not very challenging creatively for his art.
I loved this video. As much fun as trailer breakdowns are, my favorite content of yours are these more detailed examinations or universes and stories that didn't happen. Plus, it's Middle Earth! I wouldn't be upset if you did more videos on this subject.
As asoiaf goes on it seems (in the books at least) that the world is moving towards a magical era. Any character tied to magic is always going on about “old powers awakening”. I think it might be cool to get something similar in Middle Earth down the line although I don’t think we will get anything that wasn’t written by Tolkien until they’ve completely milked his writings for all they’re worth
Hey, James, I'm a long time subscriber and listener of the podcast. I really enjoyed this video as I do many of your deep dive videos which you clearly put a lot of effort into. I love Middle-Earth probably more than any other films, books, or comics. I'd love to see more LotR content from you even though I know it's not your specialty. I'm reading through all the books again with my wife right now and when we're done we are going to watch the movies. The only thing giving me the power to sit through The Hobbit trilogy again is knowing that once it's over I can watch you boys discuss them in Caravan of Garbage. Cheers, Jacoby
The wisecrack video about Tolkien really explains his worldview clearly... Basically he believed that everything is cyclical, but that things deteriorate each cycle. So the same things happen over and over, but they're a little bit worse and darker each time. Fits with this description of the sequel.
I think another part of Tolkien not wanting to write a sequel is because it feel like him "preaching his views." The way he wrote Lord of the Rings was so anyone can interpret it however they wanted to but with the sequel he felt it would be just writing his views and basically be him giving a sermon to the reader. I wanna say I heard or read somewhere that he didn't wanna do that with his writing.
The main issue with this story is that it would essentially just be a less magical retelling of the Akallabeth - men becoming discontented during times of peace after a great victory over evil, falling to corruption and bringing ruin to their own lands.
@@mrsundaymovies You know, some people have forgotten how you promised a big purple laser for the final episode of Moonknight, when it never actually appeared.... other's haven't. You lied to us.
There’s something in what Tolkien wrote here, that reminds me of David Gemmell or Ian Irving’s work. I guess it was a tone more than anything that Tolkien didn’t want to pursue? A shame though.
Did you know that the Beatles were in talks to do a Lord of the Rings movie with Stanley Kubrick, it was gonna be called “The Lord of the Rings: Blue Harvest”
I understand why Tolkien did not follow through with the sequel. Lord of the Rings has a great ending. However, this sequel sounds like an awesome thriller story. The components are interesting to me on their own, but set in a post-Sauron LOTR setting makes it even better. I almost want to write a fan adaptation of it, but I could never come close to writing like Tolkien.
Green trivia. When Amazon bought the rights to create rings of power the working title was actually blue harvest. Coincidentally this was the working title for the original star wars.
It would be interesting to have a story where few remember the days these mythical creatures roamed middle earth. Bridge the gap between that time and the world of man we know. The story doesn’t need to be positive or hopeful to be worthwhile, it can end on a depressing/ negative note.
I tend to agree with Tolkien's opinion of it - "not worth doing". The whole point of LOTR and the other histories was to provide an alternate mythological background for the modern world, an alternate to the norse or greek/latin mythologies that had erased or over-written whatever local mythology might have existed in england before it was invaded. And LOTR carries the story up to the modern era - no more wizards, elves, monsters, just humans and a memory of something magical that came before. There's no need to tell another story just about humans because that's actual history.
just as another suggestion for a series set in a world where the magic is leaving and the world of man is sad and dark since A Song of Ice and Fire will never be finished, The First Law by Joe Abercrombie. Its a total of ten books, the first three (The Blade Itself, Before They are Hanged, and Last Argument of Kings) are a trilogy, the next three (Best Severed Cold, The Heroes, Red Country) are all stand alone novels in the same universe, and the last three (A Little Hatred, The Trouble With Peace, and The Wisdom of Crowds) are a second trilogy set one generation after the original trilogy. Its got all the politicking of ASOIAF but might be more pessimistic about the world and was also inspired by the idea of Gandalf using the One Ring.
@@viktorkiss5442 I think its phenomenal, but I tend to love cynical, grimy, low fantasy and this fits that like a glove. Stuff like The Lies of Locke Lamora or The Black Company.
It's not like I'm a big Tolkienhead out there (I've read the four main Middle Earth books and some appendices) but I am honestly shocked I have never heard of this before. It sounds like a Lovecraft short story too
I keep finding myself thinking that the stuff Tolkien decided not to publish sounds way more interesting than what he actually did, & this is no exception.
I thank Eru that we've never gotten a sequel to the Lord of the Rings, and I hope we never will: Do we REALLY want a follow-up to undo everything everyone fought so hard and sacrificed so much to achieve? To show the triumph of mortals over Sauron inevitably fading and being replaced with more wars, more misery, and more suffering? We already got something similar in the Star Wars sequels, and we all know how that turned out; let LOTR be the one fantasy franchise that has ended on a hopeful and satisfying note, and stays that way.
@@JRA6192 Fiction is an escape from reality where there are solid, conclusive endings, and they can be happy ones. The problem is that extending a story past it's logical ending - whether positive or negative - almost never works. Just look at Star Wars, the Terminator series, Jurassic Park, Toy Story 4, etc. The Silmarillion, the Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings is about Sauron's attempts to enslave the world, and with his defeat, that story is concluded. To try and go past that would inevitably end with undoing or trivializing everything everyone in those stories went through to defeat Sauron, and are not stories worth telling.
Tolkien tapping into Saint Augustine's work I see. Ultimately Tolkien did not continue his sequel as he found it too depressing, it ended up just reflecting our own reality.
A lot of this would make for the beginnings of an excellent Elder Scrolls game. It's a shame that they've already done 2 (technically 3?) separate disappearing race plots so far, with the Dwarves last appearing in Morrowind, the Snow Elves of Skyrim long being driven underground into the remains of the Dwarven cities by Nords invading from Atmora, and the Chimer, now turned into the Dark Elves as a curse after the events of Morrowind. The Orcs disappearing and the exploration of Orsinium as well as how Malacath would intersect with that story as the Daedric prince that represents Orsimer culture would be very interesting. Shame Elder Scrolls 6 is probably going to be either outside of Tamriel for once or one of the southeastern regions between the Khajiit, Wood Elves and Redguards
That was really good’ thanks for that… yah I was thinking as you were describing the world that it’s similar to westeros in GOT and you mentioned it right at the same time. Heh!
as much as I love middle earth I feel like we should let it fade away with the man himself as well, especially since there's just no true direction let the world of middle earth be kind and good, let it have hope without the need to wring it for every bit of content it has. there may be an event at the end we could have seen that would lead into an even greater second song where melkor hasn't just been cast out but completely destroyed and all of eru's children make a far more magnificent song. We don't know how Tolkien himself would have done it and well things mature, age and change alongside their authors. At first people were curating his writings to preserve it but now it's just an expansion and exploitation of that beautiful body of work that really should just be appreciated as it is.
Well, I’m glad the the stories don’t continue. We have Dune and Game of Thrones among several other works to show how peace and happiness is not everlasting and old problems continue years after their are dealt with. It’s good to have sometimes stories that have a definitely end.
I think Tolkien made the right choice not making a sequel. It would ruin the ending of Lord of the Rings and it would be too depressing. Granted they probably will make a sequel to Lotr now. Maybe a good video game
This is the story of THE NEW SHADOW. You can read along with me in your book. You will know it time to turn the page when you hear Borlas say "ORC'S WORK" like this. Let's begin now.
I just wish the Middle Earth content would be interesting... I love the original trilogy of movies but man everything after has been shit. This new Amazon show is just impossible to sit through, I could not care less about any of the hundreds of characters in it. It needed to be much smaller in scope, at least for the first season. It's that Mystery Box story telling too that really sucks. Start with 40 mysteries, solve 3 by the season finale but star 10 more new ones on top of the 27 unanswered.
Totally agree. The Hobbit (book) was extremely simple, and The Lord of the Rings almost always had purpose and cumulative momentum behind every scene. The Rings of Power is a bunch of subplots written in that boring mystery box format, all approaching nothing but the beginning of a story we’ve already seen. If they had a billion dollar budget then they should’ve made The Silmarillion
It’s funny how these days, so many “decades late” sequels seem to focus on how everything’s gone to shit since the previous movies and how all the characters have been miserable in the intervening years… and it seems like Tolkien originally had the same idea.
