Destiny wasn't even bad. Maybe try just watching a series and not over-analyzing every detail. I realize critical theory is popular at university or whatever, but all you're doing is deconstructing someone else's work. It's a very limited and cynical mindset to exist in. People used to be focused on innovation and solving problems, but now all everyone wants to do is dismantle and critique every aspect of society and culture. It's counterproductive to human civilization. Surely, you've noticed the lack of creativity in media lately. It's because everyone is too focused on finding the flaws in everything. They're concerned with destruction, rather than creation... which isn't a good trajectory for humanity to be on.
The whole fake Lacus plot to me never made a whole lot of sense. I mean by the end of Seed in the Plant's eyes Lacus is a war criminal that helped steal Military Secrets and Resources. All that being just brushed under the rug and everyone universally loves Lacus again is a tough pill to swallow. Meer Campbell should have just been a new up and coming idol used as a propaganda tool by the state.
Lacus Clyne has insane plot armor on par with her boyfriend. She steals multiple times from perhaps one of the best space-based factions in any Gundam timeline, capable of literally crippling the entire planet despite their limited numbers and resources.
Is it shown she's seen that way by the Plants? ZAFT's higher-ups maybe, but they were all part of Chairman Zala's faction. They lost the war, and either died in the final battle, got prosecuted off-screen, or are keeping their head down to avoid getting roped in with everything that happened post BVW. We don't really see any CE nuremburg trials happening in between the series, but the political vacuum created seems to be why Durandal's in power instead of Yzak's mother(she was on Siegal Clyne's side during the war). As far as the civilians and green shirts cheering for meer would know, Lacus was a well-known peace advocate. The Plants were attacked by the Federation, and she wants to help the new chairman stop BVW2. Unless I'm missing something, they wouldn't even know she stole the Eternal and Freedom(technically Atheun stole the Justice) or started a coup last time. And if they knew(which would only be in the vaguest terms) that could be waved away as 'it was war' and 'chairman Zala needed to be stopped'. Another WW2 anology: the Battle of Castle Ritter--the German SA joined the Allies to fight the SS to bring the war to an end. It is believable that's how Durandal is waving it away. The better question is why Lacus wasn't brought up on Grand Larceny charges, and Jesus was allowed to keep a nuclear powered tank in his garage. Legally, the Eternal and Freedom should belong to ZAFT, or at least be in contention with ORB over a lot of sensitive tech in both machines. That is plot armour, plain and simple.
Isn’t it funny how Seed fans resort to low-key racist insults like “dumb westerner who doesn’t get it”. Even though the main message of Seed is “racism is bad”. The irony is delicious.
@aizero-ih3uy it's technically different though. DBZ was adopted to be for Gohan, but given Goku's popularity at the time, the spotlight was given back to Goku. If anything, on the contrary. If the story was given to Gohan, it would be Gohan booting off of Goku.
@@MyLife-og2kr wait, wasn't that the case with kira and shinn too? it's just that they decided to made shinn an idiot antagonist instead of gohan that's still goes along with goku, well, i guess i just oversimplified the thing though -w-')>, that's why it was worse? because shinn was supposed to replace kira just like how gohan was supposed to replace goku, but shinn got worse treatment than gohan intead?
Speaking as one of the most notorious critics of the Cosmic Era, there is so much in this video that you hit the nail on the head with, while at the same time there's also quite a bit that you unfortunately got wrong as well. But as a whole, I'd say this was a good review/rant of SEED Destiny, since you actually made me double-take on a few things here and there. There's a reason why I say that the Cosmic Era is more or less the Disney Star Wars of Gundam _(before it even existed at the time),_ because it suffers from almost the exact same problems as the Sequel Trilogy does. With all of the crap I've learned about the Cosmic Era over the last 20 years, along with everything I've seen come out of Mitsuo Fukuda's mouth in multiple interviews _(including the recent ones from 2021-2023),_ it really is no wonder why the Cosmic Era is such a mess and a hotbed of wasted potential. You can tell, because any Gundam SEED Entries that Mitsuo Fukuda and Chiaki Morosawa had *_absolutely nothing to do with whatsoever_* regarding their development, such as SEED Eclipse, SEED Stargazer, and the SEED Astray Series, are all *_considerably better_* in terms of quality than SEED & Destiny. Which is why I go on to say that Gear Fighter Dendo was the only legitimately good anime that Mitsuo Fukuda ever made in his life. That was his magnum opus, while the rest of his animes all range from being Mediocre to Outright Garbage. And if people think Fukuda's learned anything from his mistakes with making SEED & Destiny, well thankfully all you gotta do is watch Cross Ange for one or two episodes, and you will quickly realize that he hasn't changed one damn bit since those days. Again, though: VERY Good Review, my dude! I give it an 8.5/10!
"Which is why I go on to say that Gear Fighter Dendo was the only legitimately good anime that Mitsuo Fukuda ever made in his life. " Looks like somebody slept on the Cyber Formula OVAs. Sin is peak
@@BigMicahC Nah, I was talking about *_me._* lol But yeah, now that you've successfully put SEED & Destiny reviews out there that criticize them both, I guarantee you're gonna invoke the ire of the SEED fandom now. You just watch. lmao
I enjoyed some of the characters from SEED, but Destiny was hard no for me. Arbitrarily reviving Mou was.. fuck sake. Mou's death was heroic. To overturn it was moronic.
I may sound weird but after some rewatches, Flay became my favourite female character. Some of her character writing could've been refined a bit more though. It always struck me that Cagalli is kinda the foil or counterbalance to Flay, more than Lacus. Bringing Mu back made his previous sacrifice meaningless. Retcons can ruin a story even with just a few.
@@Joshua_N-Anah, Flay was everything wrong with the EAF. She's the mascot of why Patrick Zala cooking Earth with his giant gamma ray gun isn't a bad thing as far as CE is concerned
@@MarvinT0606 That guy had a point. Flay is the better written character. She had motivation to hate PLANTs, Zaft, and every coordinator she came across because they killed her dad. Flay used Kira to kill ZAFT troops to the point of rewarding him with sex. By the end of the war and partly making nukes available again for the Feds, she realized that coordinators were just people tried to repent. She's a decently written manipulator. Zala also already had reason enough to kill the Earth. The Junious 7 was destroyed by the Feds in the opening shots of the war. Plus, Ru made nukes available again for the Feds and Blue cosmos who were just gonna go wild with them.
I know destiny didn't have the best story but that was cause the creator Chiaki Morosawa became to sick to work (RIP) so she gave it off to bandai and her husband if I'm not mistaken and this was around the time of the impulse vs freedom fight which alot say is where it stopped being good and before anyone comes at me about Shinn being garbage, remember this saying because it still true to this day for a lot of series. There are no bad characters, only bad story telling. I think chiaki had better plans for Shinn then what we got but because of sad reasons we'll never know and I'll die on that boat by myself if I have to that Shinn is a good character or would had if bandai didn't go the cheap route and focus on athrun and God mode kira again.
Concerning Chiaki Morosawa’s plan for Shinn, I’ve read an interview from a blog post back in 2005, that I think implies her different opinions of Shinn from that of Fukuda. There’s a throwaway line where she mentions that she wanted each character to stand on their own feet(implying she wanted Shinn to follow his own path). While Fukuda just wanted a ROTS plot. I get what both of them were trying to go with for the anime’s direction but it could have been done much better. Kira and Athrun was always destined to return. Bandai was always the true villain. The show was originally meant to be just Athrun and Shinn with Athrun finally stepping up to become a commander. But Japanese fangirls loved Kira and the Freedom. I won’t get much into it but creative differences and Bandai’s “choices” is a primary factor for their return.
The show should have focused on the crew of the Minerva. The first couple story arcs of the series were great but then it became the Kira Yamato and the Archangel show again. The characters were bland except for Shinn who actually showed having a personality. He should have been the main character and given an arc instead of being a dick to everyone. I could go on forever with my problems with this series but I'll say the best part is the music.
Kira should've gone underground and doing detective work behind the scenes and possibly giving intel to Minerva as Terminal. Kira's story in GSD could've in told in OVA minieries format as side story.
Gundam Seed does not deserve a 2 decades late film when it deserves a complete reboot instead. And even then that should also take a backseat to Crossbone getting animated. Fukuda is a lazy director and he shouldn’t be left anywhere near Gundam ever again.
To be fair, the film being late wasn’t his decision. The writer finished the plot around 2008. But the project was put on hold due to her health condition. Then she died in 2016. The project resumed a couple years later and here we are. It puts things in a whole new light when we would have gotten this earlier, had the writer not been in such a bad way. And I wouldn’t exactly call Fukuda lazy. Because he also does storyboards, and those are extremely important. I would say doing a reboot would be the lazy thing to do. You can practically do most of Gundam Seed shot for shot, until the halfway point just for a reboot. That would be lazy and just fan service. Anime nostalgia in a nutshell.
@@theomnigamer9177 He did bring his marriage issues to work with him though and essentially ruined Destiny through that The VA cast of Destiny threw shade at him for years and years for damn good reasons
Seed Destiny is the reason I don't hate G-Witch; That show was bad, but it was due to circumstances that once NDA's expire we'll figure out why it was a rushed mess, and if it was given a longer episode count and script editors it'd be an interesting take on Gundam. Seed Destiny doubles down on everything wrong with its previous installment. It was beyond saving from the word go.
SEED imo was fairly decent (as in tolerable) as Gundam's first entry for the 21st century reusing plot points of UC's OYW mixed with more modern concepts at the time like cloning, genetic manipulation and human augmentation. It also showed how both sides of the conflict has factions with extremist and intolerant takes taking back to UC's Zeon and Titans. First MS designs were good. The GAT-X series are very consistent and well-thought and Strike is to this day one of my favorite Gundam designs. The Astrays are cool af. Later MS designs in the show are not that great tho imo since I believe less is more. Then came SEED Destiny. Shin's tragic background and his attitude reminds me of early Kamille a lot. Stella is Four. That and other similarities inevitably makes me think Destiny was intended to be what Zeta was for the UC: space-drama, tragic, darker and edgier. But then the producers took some questionable decisions (you know which ones I'm talking about) and everything became a mess. MSs felt like rehashes of designs from SEED and lazy copycats of classic UC designs like the Zaku, Dom and Gouf. Destiny overall felt like a bad parody of Zeta. Shin's tragic character concept is good. He trusted the wrong people tho. The plot did him dirt and as a character I felt he was left under-developed. Character-wise I feel both SEED and SEED Destiny is pretty weak. I simply can not defend them on that department. Curse you Fukuda.
Shin was done dirty... honestly the show should've been more so about him joining rebels that branched out of ORB and wanted to do something besides sitting back and Shin should've time skipped to his late 40's and have been hunting those involved with ORB's destruction that day for years with Freedom Gundam being the primary PTSD trigger that's his target... a Guts vs. Griffith sort of rivalry.
Seed failed to be the second coming of MSG and Destiny failed to be the second coming of Zeta. At least the japanese love it, not as much as the OG but they shure do.
Now I'm sure that people will look at me sideways for having this opinion... But I do think that unless you are stupidly obsessed with continuity, any entry can be jumped into as one's first Gundam entry. But SEED and SEED destiny... You know that meme of both Boobs and Ass guys uniting in disgust of Feet guys? Yeah, that's how I feel when I find someone who likes IBO while I like 00 and we both see a crazy SEED fan.
People usually say “the story in SEED and SD suck but I’m just here for the action” but like even then the show doesn’t really deliver. If you wanna just watch flashy mech fights your better off watching 00, IBO, Unicorn, or hell even one of the late 90s shows. The animation in the cosmic era has aged horribly, a lot early 00s anime look worse then what was in the 90s and even 80s. The reused animation and over reliance on beam spam (cause it’s cheaper) is especially laughable
I believe SEED biggest sin is that it’s message; that fighting is meaningless and nobody should be fighting even if you’re fighting for a just cause like protect your home, family and loved ones. That message is amoral if you think about it. ZAFT/PLANTS got nuked for just existing due to genetics are justified to fight back to avenge the innocent lives that were killed for no reason. But SEED for some dumb reason makes ZAFT the bad guys. Because the message is that fighting, even it’s for what’s right, is still bad. In Destiny, ZAFT ARE THE GOOD GUYS. The Minerva Crew and Meer were helping people in the war. But due to the Kira’s ideals and the theme of the show, it’s still seen as evil to just simply fighting back against GENOCIDAL MANIACS who are nuke happy. Which makes no sense at all. In the end, SEED is bad because it or Fukuda or his wife didn’t understand how Gundam viewed war. That it is treated as a tragedy that had to happen. But sometimes if a monsters like Giren, The Titans or Blue Cosmos are treating the lives of good people, somebody has to get into a Gundam to kick some ass to protect people. That’s why Seed fails as a Gundam series.
SEED's message Is about how fighting Is useless in the Sense that if your solution to everything Is fight and kill it will end up in a hate cycle when people kill because someone dear to them got killed. So we should find peaceful Solutions to end hate. On seed, characters stop hating when they question their Situation and why do they fight, this, and when they talk to their enemy and see it's not that different from them. That's the proper way of ending a hate cycle, because the other way to end it Is to kill everyone else. Zaft are the bad guys not because they were wrong on defending themselves, but because their hate Made Patrick think that the proper Solution to the conflict Is to eliminate every single natural. As a representation of what the hate cycle can turn into. Destiny Is actually about how fighting has a value. Whats the destiny plan? A plan that will eliminate every single kind of fighting, by giving you a destiny it's useless to escape. Kira stops it because in such a world there Is only stagnation, of you're sad about your destiny, you will always be sad, and you can't fight that sadness. This means that by fighting against what we dislike, by doing what we think it's correct, we can evolve, and have happiness for ourselves. You can Also see this on cagalli, as her Arc Is about not letting herself be submissive and do what she thinks Is correct, even if Yuna, Shinn, or Athrun disapprove it. By the way, zaft in Destiny isn't wrong for defending themselves They're wrong because they think that war Will end by eliminating logos. Blue Cosmos and logos are principles before orgsnizations, this means that if you kill people, you just kill people, not it's ideals. Durandal says that it isn't anyone's fault that they're fighting, but it's fault of who make them fight. But by saying this he's eliminating responsability, if Blue Cosmos or logos work, Is because human demselves have emotions who make them fight. Fight doesn't end by eliminating am organization, because said organizations will always come back as long as our feelings Let them exist, what we must do Is to teach everyone why those feelings are wrong.
The writers doesn't Care for main character and the plot of destiny they all care for Jesus yamato😅 only because he can't be wrong from everything just because this idiot treat him like a god even though the kid almost died just the writers want him alive because he's god for them This people are blind And finally someone see who really killed by accidently shinn parents it's literally kira who kills shinn parents and they just forget everything for the sake of their Kira Yamato
The main thing I hate about seed and seed destiny is the character that is killed then brought back from death Make the death mean something Let them stay dead Like my personal favorite all gundam seed is Natarl Badgiruel a tactical officer and genius Died They left her dead so her death would mean something Flay allster died Kudzu bulkirk died Nicole Amalfi Died ( he played the piano) Let there death mean something Andrew Waltfeild amazing in seed the Conversation with Kira about the battle and so own was amazing. So do they let death leave a impact on Kira NOOO they bring Andrew back Stop bringing back the dead let there death carry a weight Kira death could driven Cagalli into a bad ass leader that could change everything for her country Nooo let bring Kira back twice
Kira is the same as Shinn in Destiny. They are two sides of the same coin. Both being manipulated by the people around them and are ignorant making mistakes and bad judgement.
1:22 in. GSD'S only potential was as a Zeta rip off, just as SEED was a 0079 rip-off. I'll admit that I like the CE timeline, I like the mecha design, and the coordinator stuff was an interesting take on Newtypes. Unfortunately, even that stuff is just a pale imitation of the UC stuff. Same goes for the few good characters like Waltfeld and La Flaga, who are redone Ramba Ral and Slegger Law with more screen time. And no, I'm not at alt timeline hater. Turn A is God tier(though it's barely alt history), and I like IBO and 00. I also genuinely think AGE was wasted potential.
Gundam Seed Destiny. It feels like they had all the tools to fix all the problems of Gundam Seed, but blew it. No nor blew it, but sacrificed it as a offering to the demonic cult of Kira and his compatriot's BS ideals and their fan base. Seed and Destiny do have a lot of good and interesting things, but the people behind them want to serve a agenda and make Kira Jesus and he and his friends can not do anything wrong.
Fukuda is not the best when it comes to directing & writing. I liked that the series had more action than the first onethe writing was terrible. Even though Shinn was the main character, most of the story & character development was spent on Athurn and the original Seed characters.
@@BigMicahC I’ll be taking a look at that today thanks my dude! Your content is great btw thank you so much for putting this kinda stuff out! It’s hard to find anything on RU-vid that goes deep into Gundam the way you do and it’s so refreshing to find someone who can breakdown the history side of the in-universe show. Thanks again and keep doing what you’re doing we (the fans) really appreciate your content and work!!
what really grinded my gears is that, the crew of the Minerva could've fought alongside the Archangel, but nooooooo, they stupidly blindingly followed orders from a corrupt chairman, who thought he could change the world, there was so much they could've done, but they wasted EVERY possibility to change sides during the series.
I mean I think it works better with them as ZAFT soldiers if they wanted them to be good should've structured the series like Zeta where the 3 ships alliance would have been an AEUG insert
32:23 Ah yes, here's some of that background controversy. There's apparently information out there that the VA was doing _something_ with the director, who's the husband of the scriptwriter, ir something like that.
11:59 YES! This very topic here. This very topic about Gundam Seed and it's backpacks is why I hate the mecha designs so much. The Kira Yamato line of gundams have backpacks that jut out in all directions, without actual purpose. They are there to just look cool. And they do. But Goddamn, the mess of metal these backpacks have is so impractical. Seed designs have a problem with excess. Astray Red frame as-is is so magical and sleek. Everyone can agree that this melee-main machine that has no giant backpack on it's back will kick ass holding a katana. Compare that to Astray Red frame Dragon. That absolute piece of shit just strapped a gigantic backpack, just to store three gigantic unwieldy Caletwlch that's harder to fight with. And the katanas are still there
He's the Char clone who least resembles Char's character. The only things he got were the mask, the blonde hair and the charisma. Rau wants to destroy everything for the sake of it, but he wants to do it in a way that places the blame on the warring factions but mor himself. His entire motivation lacks Char's ambitions (or pretensions). Char was a prince in hiding while Rau was a clone pretending to be a prince. Rau could never have the spine to take up the podium and declare himself as a leader of the PLANTS like what Char did. Rau however is on the same category as Ali al-Saachez in 00 as dark horse villains.
Glad to hear ppl have same opinion about kira being an annoying shit more than shin. His action is double standard, and he os allow to do whatever he like, those opposing him are all evil.
Well... in order to have a emotional point. (Like Sleggar.) Is to have them play imoirtant PARTS in the story and other charachters arcs. Take for example, lockon stratos. He and Setsuna are connected in their past, and before they findnit out. He plays the big brother role. Guiding setsuna to be a good person. And then, when he does find out, hes rightfully fucking PISSED. His whole life was destroyed by the group setsuna was apart of. And he pulls a gun on setsuna, threatening him eith a bullet to the skull. And instead of making excuses or lying. Setsuna owns up to it. He developed with the hell of lockon enough he has the integrity to own up to it. Lockon puts the gun down, and says setsuna will help him kill the bastard ali al sachez. And then he gets hit and killed by the same man who killed his family. And his death is the hardest to handle. (I didnt like season 2 practically bringing him back. Though they did make sure to sell that the twin bro was NOT his brother. They have the same skill set, but they are entirely different people) The point is, just because seed has emotional moments. They have no weight because the story and charachter direction DOESNT sell the impact these deaths have
This show, was the pinnacle of "Fuck it. They want the self insert back? Give it to em" to date. Hownthey could get away with such bland and garbage ass writing and still have fans defend the horrible excuse for a "Anti" war message was fun. The hypocrisy spewed by kira, the lame bad guys The paper thin motivations for fighting in this war make me hate it. Gundam, as a franchise. Is about the horrors of war and its effects. But here? In SEED? Its solely the backdroo for bland boring charachter drama that keeps being rehashed each episode. Why doesnt athrun pumo the brakes on shin after his big speech? Oh ya know drama. Why did kira kidnap cagali? Oh ya know drama (and to get her away from mister Reddit) why are the two charachters people love fighting? YOU KNOW. DRAMA! Drama overdone gets boring. And ive gotten to the poimt pointless drama is the worst.
I think Destiny failed because it doesn't know what it is, is it a completely new sequel or is it a homage to Gundam Zeta like the original Seed was to 0079, also the main character switching probably didn't help.
I went from SEED to Destiney and I spent the first 5 episodes or so absolutely confused about who these new people were. I didn't really enjoy Destiney too much. I remember the first episode that I really liked was the Freedom v Impulse fight. I loved that Shinn had a game plan and used all of his accumulated experience with the different impulse forms to take Kira out (before plot armor). The most egregious sins in SEED/Destiney for me was all of the convenient plot armor parts.
erm...on the wingdam example...you may have picked a poor scene to make your point because yes, the jet turbine looking things are pointing down so if they were to start applying thrust through those it would push it down/forward (it's on it's back unless it bows out of respect it's not going strait down :P) but the 6-7 visible blue streeks coming from the on suit and on backpack thrusters are all pointing down and back which would launch it....up and forward. but granted since they spend a LOT of time stopped in the air shooting at things....i'm sure the lift provided by the backpack would be just above or at 0. and not sure if you've noticed, all gundams can fly...for a bit....if they need to go long distance they tend to get extra equipment (like a backpack or a little plane to ride) for extra fuel/lift/thrusters. and using the zeta / delta plus as a reason for backpacks not to exist....the zeta is a experimental mobile suit, the delta plus is it's mass production variant but i'm sure it's still more expensive/complicated to make a suit fully transform from MS > plane and back then it is to slap some wings and thrusters on it's back :P (yes occasionally cost factors in to the gundam universe....atleast in UC otherwise why have 1 zeta why not field a legion of zeta's topple the galaxy)
The first half of the show was good. But the second half became very rushed and stupid. It felt like we skipped like 20 more episodes we could of gotten that might of fixed so much
What irked me the most was that DESTINY was wiping out armies and cities left and right yet SOMEHOW we don't get an inkling of any long-term consequences.
I hope Seed Freedom gives Shinn the SRW treatment, cause after everything they did to that man, and having a tactical rpg crossover game fixed the character you made is absolutely insane. And Daily Reminder Master Asia solos the Seed universe without a mobile suit.
Its still Seed, the whole Seed franchise is wasted potential despite making a lot of money because Kira is such a popular semi-Gary sue. No one can deny that part at least.
I think when I cross that bridge to watch the Cosmic Era timeline of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED/Destiny. I might have a different opinion than what you were saying in this video. For what I hear this anime is very popular in Japan and most of the people that I know like SEED but had a mixed reaction on SEED Destiny.
You honestly need to do a video on the problems with 90's anime sometime. Between the people with nostalgia blindness and the ones that think of anime that first came west in that period as 90's Anime you have a lot of talk about it being a golden age. Of course the modern state of Anime might not be helping matters.
Yeah, the color theory gets on my nerves, and I have not watched the show. One of my favorite things is seeing EFSF-colored Zakus and Hi-Zacks (0083, CCA), which is impossible when a side does not have a consistent design language or color choices. Zeon does not make white mobile suits (unless the pilot is Shin Matsunaga), because the Earth Federation's colors are White, Red, and Blue. That and I can tell if a suit is a Zeon or an EFSF suit by it's silhouette, the Gundam and Gelgoog look very different despite being functionally very similar.
I watched another GSD where things "could've" been better, shinn killing both kira and athrun but then releasing he's doing more harm than good, he then abandons ZAFT, sides with ORB during the attack, lunamaria then releases herself whats going on and basically shinn pilots the justice cause that's what he fights for while luna pilots the strike freedom
I think that's boofire's video and one of his ideas. One that I don't agree with. Shinn should have his own thing and not have someone else's sloppy seconds.
Durandal attempting to assassinate Lacus reveals an ulterior motive. The payoff is the destiny plan, which Durandal correctly surmise Kira, Lacus, and Athrun would ultimately reject. Durandal does not need Lacus to support the war. He needs her to not interfere. Everyone become suspicious when they realize the Machiavellian move Durandal tried to pull. That's why Athrun became so hostile/inconsistent around Durandal.
I think they should have had the assassin squad disguised as Patrick Zala loyalists. I think such loyalists should have been present in the series throughout and affect Athrun. Kira and the crew would still suspect Durandal while Athrun will brush it off as the loyalists. Imagine a Zala faction that are coordinator supremacists the opposes Blue Cosmos.
It's just poor writing. The attack happens after the orb leader who wants to marry cagali admonishes her about her attachment to Kira as a coordinator. I thought it would make much more sense for him to try to kill Kira because it would be an attachment Cagali has that neuters his own plans.
@@kapayasiame3632Or the attack be done by blue cosmos themselves and part of the deal theh make with the earth alliance is to sell out the archangel and the coordinator named kira. And the new leader of Orb would be happy to do so because he wants to secure Cagali so eliminating her brother would help his goals.
Any video that calls out Kira's bullshit is a legend in my book. Thank you for calling out the numerous flaws of GS/GSD and the level of plot armor this twink had. We just hate to see the lack of intelligence that Kira fanboys have. They've literally been supporting terrible writing for the past 15+ years. GS/GSD should have focused on Athrun and Shinn all the way. You're absolutely right that Kira just feels misplaced, like he was INSERTED in there without good reason.
Rau was so mad about being a clone that he cloned himself..... sigh.... and then Dullandal was so sad about not impressing the girl he wanted he signed onto clone boys plan to exterminate humanity... even though he gets her anyway by becoming a Boss...
It is not clear that Rey is a clone of Rau. I believe there are more clones. I'm not sure who is making them and when. There is a Rau clone that is bright and optimistic in spinoff series. But all Rau clones are clones of Al la Flaga
Just like Rau , Rey is a clone of Al Da Flaga. It’s funny how we don’t see how influential Mu’s father is in the CE. He funded the Ultimate Coordinator Project in exchange for cloning himself. Definitely one of Gundam’s worst parents.
Im glad that my first introduction to Gundam series was Iron Blooded Orphans (ye, S2 braindead sucks because apparently the director simped one of the VAs thus giving her a god-like plot armor).
While IBO may not be for some one like me, I'm glad that some one liked it! It's way better them any CE entry by a long shot! If you ask me, any AU or the UC is better then CE.
Seed and Seed Destiny's plot is a dumpster fire, characters have a bad development, and the phasing is utterly rushed. And don't get me started with the mobile suit, some Mobile Suit design is really trash and bad color combination the only mobile suit that is acceptable is Astray, Destiny, Infinite justice, and Blaze Zaku Phantom (every Strike Freedom variant is trash and overrated) Lesson of the story never watched it 4/10
Just thought I'd point this out but, you do know that the gundams were built by ZAFT in seed destiny and stolen by the earth alliance so the argument that the color not telling you whos army they're apart of is mute because they were supposed to be used by ZAFT. Even the strike freedom, infinite justice and akatsuki were built by coordinators from orb and from the Clyne faction so the coordinators have a distinct style over the Earth Alliance. You could easily tell which non gundam mobile suits belonged to what faction based off the design and each military did have their own color separation along with different design philosophies. More research was needed.
The only thing I liked about SEED was the design of the grunt units and the designs of the environments. Except the goofy looking design of the PLANT Colonies. The rest of SEED and its tie-ins suck.
I remember noticing that the MiNERVa and the entirety of its main crew were somewhat poor man's copies of main characters from NGE and I haven't been able to forgive SEED Destiny for wasting my time like that...
It's saddening cause I somehow enjoyed the first half of Destiny. Great music and somehow decent slide show fights.(Yeah, that stock footage is jarring asf) Shinn can be annoying but I convinced myself this is just part of his character arc. Like how Kamille Bidan and Amuro Ray matured in their own shows. So far, the only media I knew that did seed destiny story some justice is it's revised story in Super Robot wars Z. Not counting multiple spin offs that were infinitely better like stargazer and astray.
Recently did a rewatch of GSD after watching the movie, mainly because its been years, and i actually liked Shinn and Luna in GSF more than anyone else(also needed to justify paying for the VPN i used for US Netflix). One thing i noticed, besides how much my opinions on Shinn have changed as i myself have matured, is some of the background details as i kept myself entertained through the insufferable gospel of Jesus Yamato moments. One thing that pissed me off was noticing they made Kira a fucking ADMIRAL towards the end of the season. Like WHY!? Putting aside the Gary Stue bit, wtf is a FLAG OFFICER doing in a mobile suit!? Then i remembered Cagalli was an admiral in SEED as well as being the head of state for Orb. Why was she in a mobile suit!? What would they do if she got shot down? I get the whole 'the king must lead from the front' mentality, but in war, an admiral stays on the bridge of a flag ship commanding the entire fleet. And yeah... i know Char did it in CCA as did Haman Karn in Zeta/ZZ, but Neo Zeon was essentially a terrorist cell, while Orb, especially in GSD, is meany to be a legit nation.
Until this moment, in-universe lore-wise, I still don't understand why ZAFT even create a Gundam. It's like Lockheed-Martin/Boeing copy & pasted Sukhoi design. And why aren't the ZAFT get sued? And not to mention, in the extended universe, how easy other faction even obtained a Gundam.
Disagree on Mecha designs. Many of SEED Destiny's mecha designs were terrible in comparison to SEED. Sure they were iconic and looked nice on screen but they lacked creativity. For example, the titular Impulse Gundam was a literal ZAFT knockoff of the Strike Gundam while several of the other Gundams, resembled the common grunts used in the show(On screen, the Savior Gundam looked more the Grunt mobile suit Murasame in both MA and MS form.). SEED Destiny also downplayed much of the new Gundam capabilities as they were often turned into chew toys for the older Freedom Gundam from Gundam SEED.(I should also mention the Chaos Gundam being destroyed by three Murasame grunts.) Gundam SEED not only brought back many elements of the original Gundam designs but it also gave them unique twist that made them so iconic and well liked. The fact that the common "grunt" Gundam types were introduced very late in the series also made them stand out even more. If one were to make a poll on whether SEED Destiny Gundam or SEED Gundam designs were better, you'll hear a lot of people saying SEED Gundam designs over SEED Destiny. On the other hand, your intro nearly summed up everything wrong about GSD. The person who was directing the show for GSD was changed out mid way through the show and since both directors had different views on how they wanted SEED Destiny to play out, we ended up with this terrible plot development. Had they kept the original director, I'm sure SEED Destiny would have been almost as good as Gundam SEED, if not better.
This is the most concise discription of all of the gripes I have with SEED. I enjoy elements of it but ultimately it's bad self insert U.C. fan fiction.
thanks for telling the truth. and that truth is this seed series sucks. sure, some suits might look cool but the so called heroes always pulling some miraculous ass pulls?! i suspect that someone in bandai or sunrise got theirs sucked really well to greenlit a new movie. a new movie that features another batch of lame suit designs. they just recycled some old suit designs. nothing new even in that department.
Having recently gone back and watched Gundam Seed and Destiny again, to be honest, I'm not sure I agree entirely that Athrun is inconsistent in this show, especially not with the examples used in this video. The reason why Athrun isn't happy with what Shinn said at 30:02 is because that's not what Shinn said. The things Shinn said to Durandal are not in line with what Athrun was trying to tell him. Shinn didn't say anything about power and purpose. Shinn said that even though peace is preferable to fighting, sometimes people have no choice but to fight. Athrun is bothered by that because it basically echoes what Patrick Zala said when he set out on his campaign to eradicate the Naturals. Shinn is also coming from almost the exact same place as Patrick, in that Shinn and Patrick both lost people they cared deeply about, and that drove Patrick on a destructive campaign of vengeance, and the world was worse off for it, almost killing ungodly numbers of people on Earth and rendering the planet uninhabitable. This is why Athrun follows up on Shinn's statement by saying that if someone kills, and then that person is killed for being a killer, the world will never find peace. Athrun isn't disagreeing with what Shinn said outright, because it's true, sometimes there are situations where there's no choice but to fight, however, he's trying to give Shinn another lesson by saying that there's something that Shinn is forgetting. Fighting in an endless cycle of defending yourself and seeking revenge for the attack against you doesn't benefit you or the world at all. In one of the other examples that was shown, when he chastises Shinn, saying, "War is not some game to play the hero," he does this because Shinn ignored the orders he was given, and the ZAFT forces aboard the Nyiragongo died because Shinn got carried away and strayed too far from everyone else. Then, when the battle was already won, Shinn decided to kill enemies that couldn't fight back and played hero in order to stroke his own ego. Chastising Shinn for his actions in that deployment still align with his statement that with power comes responsibility and the battlefield isn't a place where you can just do whatever you want just because you can. This is also consistent with what we know about Athrun up to this point, he became a soldier because there are things he wants to protect, not because he wanted to be a hero. Even though Shinn did a good thing in liberating the people forced to work on that Earth Forces' base, he also took lives unnecessarily and allied lives were lost because of his indiscretion. I think a big reason why it feels like there's inconsistency with the things Athrun says and does in Destiny is because he still believes in the things he learned in Seed, but he isn't completely sure how to get there. This is why he allies himself with Durandal and rejoins ZAFT at the start, because he believed it was the right thing to do at the time in order to fight for what he believed in, which was peace between the world powers. Athrun makes mistakes in this show, but he learns and figures stuff out for himself. That being said, of course he isn't perfect, and he's not completely free of all the problems with the show. Also while I agree with most of the things said here about Kira, I wouldn't say Kira was responsible for Heine's death. Heine was an experienced pilot and should've known that the Gaia was still a threat and was still active. He was an idiot for placing himself in between the Freedom and an active threat that was trying to attack it. If you ask me, Gundam Seed Destiny is a show where you can kind of see what they were trying to go for, and it was a show that definitely had something to say, but ultimately fell way short of what it was trying to be. But man, if you thought Gundam Seed Destiny was bad, check out an anime called Valvrave the Liberator if you haven't already. That show brings mecha anime to lows I didn't even think were possible, and makes Gundam Seed Destiny look like a masterpiece by comparison.
Kira's character really should have taken a nosedive and he becomes the real antagonist of DESTINY. Then again, imagine the riots that would break out from the fanbase.
Agree with you complete...it squandered the potential that Gundam SEED opened...the fact that it took so long for the movie to finally arrive and the fact that they switched to another alternate universe Gundam series (Gundam 00). And then look at took characters in Code Geass that were inspired in part by Gundam SEED and SEED Destiny. And then don't forget the chaos behind the scenes on the VA side particularly on Cagalli and her original VA...it would not be until Gundam AGE that the dubious title of Gundam SEED Destiny being the worst was dethroned (we do not speak of G-Savior here).
I enjoyed the 1st half of Seed Destiny. I think things go wrong when Kira survives. He was acting crazy and deserved to die. Also, you survived a nuclear explosion . . . In that sense I think it had unrealized potential.
21:39 And not at all helped by the poor funding decisions and behind the scenes drama! As well as the writers not having a spine and caving in to peer pressure.
Oh yeah, "the ultimate co-ordinator"... Knights of Sidonia does a genetically engineered main character really well, by making the effects of it simple and clear- he's more durable, heals faster, and eats more than a normal human. Because of that, he is more likely to live through a mission, especially since he was trained since birth by the greatest mech ace of a generation to pilot mechs.
The two biggest points of failure for Destiny was Bandai and Sunrise deciding that an ovarian cyst and uterine fibroid was no excuse to delay the second season of the massively popular SEED. Yes, she did ultimately leave it to others to finish the writing, but they clearly didn't know where to go with the project. There's at least six levels of failure here, but those two stand out the most and it's peak black company behaviour. May Morosawa Chiaki rest in peace. I'm of the mind that the JP fanbase partially loves SEED as much as they do because the pain was everywhere at the time.
I agree with the color theory idea. I remember back then when I was watching this, I just could not tell which side is which because all of the colors for the different MS were just so different.
kinda hard to write a good show when the writer's only claim to fame is the daytime soap-opera genre, who also had a chip to slander every member of the cast. not the best range when the goal is a consistent A to B space action/drama.
Though only thing I can say that I 4hink most will agree with is, despite the writing, destiny had some really bad ass looking mobile suits (yes not all but many before someone bites my head off)
I think that you misunderstand most of what seed destiny is trying to tell. I will separate this comment in parts, since it's too long for RU-vid standards. let's start with your critics towards the conflict , Talia and durandal -"this is shown as the war that zaft has always wanted" that's a misunderstanding, this is not a war that zaft wants, is one that durandal wants, duranda manipulates zaft into believing they are being the heroes of the show. (not saying that zaft people are evil, but that they're following a cause without knowing it until the end when the destiny plan is revelaed). -"there's no building to durandal's destiny plan" that's not true, while it's probably a bit hard to notice, the show provides you hints at what durandal is trying to do, it just doesn't fully reveals it until the end. you have, for example, when shinn activates his seed mode, talia wonders if the reason shinn got the impulse instead of Rey is because durandal knew about it, since "Durandal is an expert on genetics" (that's probably not the exact quote, but this scene exists on the show.). Episode 29, "Fates" is all about durandal's views, durandal talks with Rau about what does it means to have hope and what does it means to make choices, he SAYS that there must be something to always choose the correct option, and then he says "Adenine, Guanine, Cytosine, Thymine", (the base of the DNA), and the episode ends up with durandal talking about how he will create a perfect path to choose from the beginnin, and that no one knows better than him what is it that people should do. This is a clear hint of what all of the destiny plan is all about, if you don't think that the destiny plan was hinted at before this, I don't know what to tell you. -now, lets talk about gladys gladys' conflict is badly presented and It's hard too understand unless you pay a lot of attention to the show. This is a critique I would agree with, but I think that your critique is misdirected. but let's talk about what gladys represent to the show the dilemma of gladys is mostly presented on Fates too, it's a mirror to kira-lacus situation. one of the focuses of the episode is how lacus was supposed to marry athrun because zaft decides on genes who is the best pair for you, Coordinators have low fertility and so they can't have childrens with everyone, Lacus and Kira are together despite this, Talia-Durandal relationship exist to say "what if you followed the system?" talia loves durandal, durandal loves talia, but talia wants a child, and they can't have a child, so she ditches durandal for the man that can give her a child. we don't exactly know that went wrong with talia and the father of her son, but we can see that the father is no longer here, leaving talia alone with the child, implying that the relationship went wrong. Talia and durandal even sleep together in the first episodes. Another important thing is that talia is never in contact with her son, nor she has the time to do anything with him, since she's a mother who needs to stay in the militia, the thing is, talia tried to follow genes to choose a partner, instead of following her feelings in her original partner, which ended up in a situation that only hurted her child, durandal, and herself. the scene of talia leaving her child feels bad, because its supposed to be seen as the feelings of someone who chose the incorrect option and that sees herself as someone who can't fulfill her child nor herself, nor the man she has a relationship with and loved, so she sacrifies herself hoping to help durandal i na way, and in hope that someone will be able to take care of her child in a proper way. She also helps Rey who decided to perish with durandal. now, let's talk about Rey -Rey is a clone of Rau that's a misunderstanding, Rey is a clone of Al da flaga, Mu's father. Which Rau is a clone of too. -Rey doesn't has anyting to mention besides teh fact that he's a dick. I think that you misunderstood his character. lets talk about what he means before his identity crisis arc. (I made a reddit post called "The meaning of Rey Za Burrel's 666, a post talking about how the bible inspires Gundam Seed Destiny.", if you want to read a bit more of it, by the way, I will write some of it here) Shinn is an immature teenager, in many ways, this due to his trauma and lack of people on his life that can truly comprehend him, thisends up in emotional burstes and different problems. with this person, we have 2 persons that represent to opposite things. Athrun: "No! Shinn! what you're doing is wrong!" Rey: "I agree with you, Shinn..." Athrun has suffered on the previous war, so he often gives advices to Shinn about how some things he does are wrong, however, he fails at presenting himself in a way Shinn can 100% feel identified with, it's not that Shinn hates athrun, since there are scenes where he cares for him, but athrun isn't compassionate enough. Rey is a character who is based on not making shinn question himself, and using his lack of self questionment to make him fall in the side of durandal, an dhis side. If Shinn is a kid who is angry with his father, Rey is a kid who will tell shinn that he was right and that he shouldn't follow his father at all. we can see this on multiple ocassions. I will mention 3. -the first episodes, we have a conversation of shinn saying that he thought rey would be mad at shinn, but rey says "I agree with what you said", while rey talks about shinn's attitude, Rey never does anything to correct it, we don't have a single scene of rey trying to do so. The only one who tries to correct it is athrun. -when shinn wants to take revenge on kira, in reality, shinn is doing to athrun is the same thing he felt mad over kira. Shinn believed that he could convince stella and save her, but that kira intervened and killed her. now we have the same situation with athrun, athrun believes that kira isn't bad and that he could be reasoned with, but shinn is so mad at kira he convinces himself that by taking him down he's taking revenge even for athrun (when he comes back, he says to athrun "I took revenge for you too"), Rey, instead of talking shinn about it, he convinces him further to proceed. --when athrun and meyrin "betray" zaft, in reality, Shinn does care for athrun, at least a bit, and everytime in their fight that athrun wants to tell shinn to doubt durandal and wondering if this is the correct thing to do, rey says "dont let him confuse you!", athrun wants shinn to question himself, but rey doesnt, and it ends in athrun saying "wait, at least let meyrin.." and rey says "no! she betrayed us, shinn!". that's rey's role, to make shinn fall into darkness by not making him question himself. there's also an important conversation with athrun and kira, where athrun mentions how what makes hard to deal with durandal and rey is how what they say sounds correct, and that shinn has problems seeing besides that, just because their points are correct, does that means that their answers are too? rey tempts shinn, basically. now, let's talk about what rey is After he is revealed to be Al's clone. basically, rey dilemma is this one according to the destiny plan, people can be analyzed throught genes, their personality and everything. this would imply that Rey is the same as rau, since they're both clones of Al, havint the same imperfections about telomeres, Rau, hated the world and decided to destroy it, because rau concluded that that's what humanity deserved, and thus, rau never could be happy. Rey believes he shares the same fate of total unhappiness, knowing this, Rey follows durandal in the hopes that an abomination like him can die by creating a world where something like him can never be created. just by this you can see how different rey is to rau, rau wants to eliminate humanity, that's his conclusion, what rey wants to do is very different from this. Rey is a proof on how the destiny plan is wrong to analyze people just by their genes. but now we have this question, does Rey truly believes what he's saying? the thing with rey is that just like he tells shinn, he never questions himself, he does what he does out of love to durandal and hate for his own existence. a very important dialogue with rey is how he mentions "i am a clone without a father and a mother" Rey's love for durandal is that of a son to his father, but Rey doesn't believes that durandal can be considered a father, he never calls him "father", he calls him "Gil". Even when Rey has that type of love, because this is because durandal doesn't acknowledges Rey as "Rey", but as "Rau", Rey is chained by his past as a clone without parents. now we need to talk about the end of his arc. Kira is the ultimate coordinator, and he tells to rey "Your live is yours and no one else's, because there's only one life!" it can be seen as a bit forced how kira starts talking about it, regardless, the important thing is that we are seeing kira, the result of the experimentation that created Rey, to say that his life is his, Rey never got that told to him, and seeing the ultimate coordinator himself telling him this, is very powerfull to him, regardless, Rey still believes in durandal, so after the fight he goes to try and protect him. then we get the argument between durandal and kira. in durandal's world, genes define who you are, so Rey is destined to be unhappy just by his own existence. however, kira counters that he himself is only a human being, despite being the ultimate coordinator, and that he, and lacus, are both human beings, kira refuses to let what he was born as to define what he is, and because of this, he can choose by himself and get his own happiness, of course, seeing the ultimate coordinator himself, deny that he's the ultimate coordinator, and saying that we can find our own future, is what makes Rey betray durandal, because in kira's world, everyone can find it's own happiness.
of course, after this, his decission is to perish with durandal. Because he loves durandal. then we have the scene where talia comforts her, not as rau, but as rey. rey has chosed to not let his past as a clone to define him, so when he gets comfoted by talia, he realizes this is similar to motherly love to which he says "mother" this makes rey completely get it just because he's a clone without fathers it doesnt means that he was destined to be one for eternity, to be without love. Rey by saying it denied his existence as one. and so, a picture of rau fades away because rey is free from rau's curse. after writing all of this, I hope you get to see that rey isn't a void character who is only a "dick", you can dislike it's execution, but you misunderstood what the character was about in your video. -now, let's talk about cagalli's character and why she is "submissive" cagalli on seed is a character that deeply cares about orb, and it's his father's last legacy to her. considering this, and that cagalli is a deeply kind person, it makes sense for her to absolutely care about orb. this means orb on its entirety, its ideals and it's people. the thing is that when she meets shinn, she starts to doubt everything. Ideals make you do the correct thing, but they don't necessarily protect people, this is the case with shinn, which hates orb because of their lack of power to protect his family, This is what makes cagalli care about orb before herself, that, and the lack of support she gets due to athrun leaving her, makes her take the decissions that will mostly make orb "safe" before anyone else. Cagalli is selling herself because she's thinking that her ideals will only hurt the people she loves. if destiny is about how you should question yourself and follow what you think it's correct, then cagalli's arc is about what does it means to sell yourself over a moment of safety. which is why kira tells her "is it okay if orb is safe if they attack innocent people?" cagalli doesn't thinks that, she may be protecting herself, but by doing so she's helping the people that want to exterminate the coordinators, this is what it means to sacrify your ideals, when you do so, YOU become the one who hurts other people. It's a thing to show why shinn's views on what orb did are wrong. now, lets talk about when she tries to stop orb, a topic of "stagnation" vs "moving forward" in the beginning you criticized that cagalli could have showed herself to orb and that would have ended everything, but that's not true. Yuna says that the person telling them to stop is either an imposter, or a brainwashed cagalli, so showing herself wouldn't solve anything, because then orb would take her as "brainwashed", and she would be vulnerable. Showing her face wouldn't have solved anything either, because she would be an imposter, or brainwashed. why does she goes with the mobile suits in the battlefield instead of going to orb directly? because they are in the middle of a fight with the earth alliance and zaft, betraying the EA there would mean that the EA would attack orb immediately after their announcement. Cagalli wants to stop the fight so that orb doesn't kills nor it is killed. This is important, because kira and cagalli don't know if zaft is truly bad, they only kinow that they wanted to kill lacus, so instead of declaring a winner, they want everyone to survive, because declaring a winner would be truly dangerous. and of course, this helps the minerva, which was being attackd by 2 sides and would have possibly died. It did killed heine? Sure, but to focus only on that and not why was kira and cagalli stopping the fight is wrong, and it's what makes athrun hurt cagalli. now we have the second intervention. athrun believes that kira and cagalli are only confusing the battlefield, athrun says that cagalli needs to go back to orb and do something about the treaty, which is very umprobable considering that cagalli is labelled as an imposter or as brainwashed. Athrun is so focused on heine that he can't see why is cagalli doing what she's doing and instead of trying to help her he tells her "you're not doing what you were supposed to do!", he focuses on the past instead of the present and the reasons for cagalli to do it. this is the thing. there will be another fight, where either orb will die by zaft, or zaft will be killed by orb. both things are wrong in the eyes of cagalli, orb shouldnt be a murderer and nor it should be killed, because it's important to her. this is one of the message of the show, and what kira says before interrumpting cagalli's wedding, "we may not know if what we do is exactly correct, but if we give up, we already know the result" cagalli is scared to do what she believes is right to do, but she's afraid of athrun's opinion, cagalli is sacrificing herself in orther to feel safety again, so she needs to get over athrun too and follow what she thinks is right. cagalli by intervening again wants to deny said result and see if she can do something to change the destiny. she manages to change it by having orb soldiers follow her in the minerva, because orb and its citincenz are there BECAUSE they believe in orb's ideals. She managed to change orb's destiny, and they also pretty much saved the minerva from dying from kamikaze attacks. of course this doesn't solves the overall problem. you can't just do stuff without thinking it throught, and so, while cagalli got something good out of it, the archangel got the reputation of trying to extend the war and durandal can use them as an excuse to attack them all later. to choose the correct option, the best thing that you can do is to try and get most of the overall picture of the conflict, this is why lacus spend its time investigating, and also why the archangel after this doesn't attacks anyone, because they are not sure about what they should do. cagalli is all about doing what you're right, and not giving yourself to the wish of momentanial security. -now, let's talk a bit about athrun. I won't talk that much about athrun here, because your complain is about his inconsistent personality, but that's not really true, athrun doesn't has an inconsistent personality, what he has is a dilemma that doesn't allows him to choose his own justice. athrun is scared of individual choices because he feels that there's a danger in them, to be self righteous is dangerous, just look at how patrick zala wanted to exterminate humanity to "protect zaft". he isn't sure what is the enemy that he should fight against, as he learned in the og seed, but it's also scared to declarate himself what is it that he should fight, because of this, he goes in the rol of a soldier so that he can have something to calm his feeling of being useless. But even when he's a soldier again, he has a lot of doubts about what he should fight for. because of this, he's incredibly bad with cagalli regarding the orb situation, not wanting to calm her or to help her, but telling her that instead she should go away and do something different. refusing to fully see what is it that cagalli truly wants. because of this, I don't think that the moment of athrun and shinn is ruined. athrun shows his fear of being self righteous to shinn, on how if you only follow your self righteouness when obtaining power, you become the one to hurt others, you need to find the correctt way of using your power. That is true. when he feels insecure when shinn talks about using it to protect others, he's showing how that purpose alone doesn't convince him because he has experienced how "protecting" becomes "killing a bunch of innocnet people" in the og seed.
-now, let's go with kira, I think that you misunderstand A LOT of what kira is supposed to be as the ultimate coordinator. (i will copy paste some of what i wrote on a reddit comment once) one of the subjects that the original seed is about, is how children are an extension of their parents, how origins affect them and their future. Athrun follows zaft and blindly trusts them thanks to his father, Sai has a complex because he was born as a natural, unlike kira, flay uses her body to manipulate kira since her role is that of a popular princess due to the poisition her father has, rau wishes to destroy humanity since he was created as a failed clone. kira is the opposite of this, he was born a coordinator but even then he fights zaft. And even when he's reveleaed to be the ultimate coordinator, he holds no pride on that position, because kira's character is about how your origins don't define what you are. this is why his gundam is the Freedom Gundam, because he's free from all the chains of how you were born into this world. this means that your critique of how kira being the ultimate coordinator makes no sense, becaues you take it as a proof that the story wants you to believe he's perfect, and so, a gary stu. When the whole point of it is that he isn't perfect at all. this is why kira fights durandal's world, a wolrd that will tell you a rol you should follow without questioning yourself, based only on how you were born as. it's the opposite of what kira, and freedom represents. and the shows represents how kira isn't perfect because he makes mistakes in destiny, after all, the decission to save orb's soldiers end up in HIM being labeled as an enemy, the decission to near shinn ends up in stella rampaging, even his first intervention ended up in heine being killed, kira, is not, a god. He's a human that does what he thinks its correct, and even when he takes mistakes in doing so, he does it because that's what he believes he should do. and you can clearly see this in his comfrontation with durandal against durandal, he is the one tu pull the gun and aim at durandal he says "I'm only a single human being, and because of that , I must shoot you, because I understand that!" kira isn't a god, he can't promise peace if durandal stays and wants to continue manipulating everyone, so he decides to shoot, staying away from the path of justice. in fact, in an interview of 2005 morosawa said that people shouldn't view kira as absolutely correct, because in kira's world there is confusion and responsability, and in durandal's there's peace, it means that the writers of the show wanted YOU, the spectator, to think what world do YOU really preffer, not following kira because he's kira, but because you AGREE. now, about the peace that seed wants, i think that you misunderstand it too. Destiny is about how fighting is necessary for us. of course, seed alks about how if your solution IS fighting instead of learning, you will end up in the conclusion that you should kill everyone who isnt with you, which is wrong, we should learn from each other. Destiny is about "is it bad to fight even if im being threatened?" an interview with fukuda on october 2023 talks about this, in fact, the 2005 interview of morosawa also mentions it, but i will paste the october 2023 one •In SEED, the main characters had a clear intention to stop the war. In SEED, there was an assertion that one shouldn't fight. But with DESTINY, it's more of an ironic question: Is it truly wrong to fight? DESTINY serves as a counter-argument to SEED. It doesn't denounce the act of fighting. Hope for tomorrow, the drive to achieve one's desires”they come through struggle, through battle. At the time, people were beginning to say we should stop ranking in races or stop competing altogether. A blanket rejection of anything connected to war and conflict felt misguided to me. When you only see justice from one perspective, it inevitably ends up skewed. There are many people's sense of justice, and you must acknowledge them to some degree to coexist. I really like how Moonlight Mask refers to being anally of justice, not justice itself. There's a pause, a restrain”something fundamental in hero narratives. The idea that it doesn't claim absolute righteousness is appealing. this means that, while killing isn't the propper solution, YOU should fight for what you believe it's correct, destiny overall is about the different ways this manifest, shinn for example is about how impulses and emotions blind you of what you truly think is the right thing to do. and what not questioning what you're doing ends up as. i wont tell you that kira is a perfectly written character though, i believe he works as a support to both athrun and cagali but his arc about overcoming rau's trauma isn't properly done. Since it's just solved on rey vs kira. Instead of being properly touched. i will also copy paste a comment i made about stella because you said that the writers didnt understood what made certain zeta arc good, when setlla's character has his own soul on it. the core of what the extendeds mean to the show are to represent 2 things -what it means to live a life with a rol you can't escape, and if you try to you are "managed" so that you don't (destiny plan) -what it means to live a life without a "past" Shinn's dilemma is how his obsesesion with the past doesn't allows him to have a future, so his worries consume him, the extendeds are there to say "what if you had no worries from your past?". Extendeds are characters that have a brotherly like relationship, but no one is able to grow out of said bond because everytime one of them dies, they forget about the one who died, they can't learn anything of their lifes, because they forget about it, because of this, they can't make any choices for themselves or for their future, while auel and sting aren't as touched as they should, Stella is there to show that the past has good things on it, since thanks to shinn, stella gets happiness, and starts learning what does it means to "protect" (she goes to the extended's laboratory to "protect" Auel's mother because of that), but ultimately, all of this doesn't matters because she gets her memories erased and remains the same, if you erase your past and your worries, you eliminate both the bad and good things of your past, and so, you don't have any future at all. so the duality is like -if you let your past take you, you will be stuck and you won't be able to grow, and you won't have a future. -if you don't have a past, you won't have anything that will allow you to grow, so you won't have a future. that's why stella's "ghost" words to shinn are "I have a yesterday, so I know what it is, what a tomorrow is", it represents that while we would like to forget painful stuff, the only thing we can truly do is overcome them. In relationship to shinn, shinn needs to overcome his past. now, about her relationship with shinn. you are right on how there is a paralelism to mayu, but it's a bit more complicated, the thing with Shinn is that his motivation of protecting others is very vague because there is not a person in his life that can fulfill him, he doesn't sees anyone who can fully understand his trauma, nor someone he can have a very close relationship with, and so he obsseses with mayu. Stella is the first person that shinn meets that shinn feels like he can have somewhat of a close bond with because shinn sees himself as a war victim on stella, another war victim, because of this, when Stella is show to be unable to survive on herself, Shinn feels the same lack of power he felt when his family died, Stella's character makes Shinn's pain greater which makes him fall into darkness, which is in a way IMO an interesting spin on kamille because, while the death of rosamia and four helped kamille grow and fight against scirocco (their ghost literally talk in mid combat), mayu and stella's death make shinn fall into the hands of durandal. all of this said, I can only recommend you that, you shouldn't just think that the writers are braindead or something, if you convice yourself of that, you will miss some of what the shows are wanting to tell you, i recommend you to search for the main message, and see how the show tries to portray it, if you read all of this, I can only say thank you for reading it.
Huh, fair point especially for Cagalli. We have to remember that she was a gung-ho guerilla leader _BEFORE_ her country got invaded and her adoptive father got killed. The trauma of the First Bloody Valentine War seeped into her decision-making as ORB's chief representative. If she came off as a doormat it was because any other option, to her eyes, meant reopening old wounds and trauma. She'd rather have a bad peace than a good war, but even that decision bit her back when the Seirans took over and turned ORB into a haven for Blue Cosmos.
“If Garma Zabi was a date r*pist…” What do you mean if? Pretty sure he was. We are talking about the same person who non-chalantly let themselves into Char’s bathroom while Char was taking a shower.
An interesting side note about the color decisions in CE is that as far as im aware PS armor can have its colors changed easily so they could have changed that shit all willy nilly in destiny eventually to stick with an armys theme.
