Pyrrha, Torchwick, Team CFVY, Sun, Neptune, Qrow, all the students from the Vytal Festival tournament, Raven, Sienna, Kali, Penny, the list goes on and on. Can’t wait ‘til we get to see how Tyrion gets butchered.
One idea that I wanted to make a video about is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4). If you watch the early volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like, in one of EruptionFang's videos he mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8. I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead. For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow. Ruby and Yang need a back story and drive explored, and Blake needs a reason to exist post-Adam.
For me the Ace ops as a group left me with the same feeling as the white fang, "good idea, shit execution". There’s nothing in the group that tells you these guys are on a different level than regular hunters. It just tells you they’re better than there are in atlas and then make a fool out of them.
But on the plus side, their losses helped them grow as characters and as a team. Ironically they are better at being main characters than the actual main characters. But I see what you mean about the execution and you’re right. If volume 7 could rewrite the ace ops, it could be a good idea that instead of making them “the best hunters in Atlas” make them second or third year students of Atlas Academy, that way they can still act like the military and work under Ironwood since he is the headmaster and keep that upperclassman relationship they have with the main cast. As a bonus, because they are also students, it wouldn’t be so unbelievable that they lost to team RWBY because of their flaws. They can develop as characters without the complaints that they should have won.
@@enderbrawler6576 Actually having the Ace Ops be the highest academy students would make more sense. They are not full on Hunters but the highest of the academy’s senior years. It would make them the Young Guard of Atlas Military. While the Middle Guard are made up of Atlas trained Hunters and Huntresses and the Old Guard made up of the Elite and most Veteran of the Atlas Hunters. This would make them an elite troop but still give them that youth and inexperience and the chance to learn and make mistakes. It would also be good as this could play into the fall of Mantle and Atlas arc too. Why does Ironwood turn to nuking the city? Cause his elite units in the middle guard and old guard are gone. Killed holding the line and now with the city overrun the best option they have to potentially wipe out the greatest number of enemies + force Salem into a regeneration period would be to nuke the city and take whatever surviving academy students and soldiers to the next kingdom to make another stand. You can have the conflict of these guys having to step up and take the place of the veterans as such their loyalty is almost doubled due to the stress of the situation, but at the same time they are still young and conflicted as these are their people and they don’t want to abandon/kill them
@@reecedignan8365 Yeah, that makes their story sound way more compelling, trying to live up to their superiors which explains their almost stubborn loyalty to Ironwood while also keeping Ironwood as a morally grey antagonist who is backed into a corner and just wants to save what’s left of Atlas and Mantle.
@@enderbrawler6576 Simple as, If I could rewrite Ironwood arc from season 5-8 I’d of had him wrote similar to General Kerensky of Battletech fame - if you do not know of this character and wish to learn about him, may I suggest watching Tex Talks Battletechs two episodes on the Fall of Star League and The Amaris Civil War.
Them only seeing each other as coworkers already made no sense as in real life, Special Operations teams see each other as family and a band of brothers.
Exactly. What’s made immensely clear by the Ace-Ops is that the writers have no clue how the military operates. This is a profession where you need to trust others with your life, it’s a profession built on cooperation and loyalty. I’m sorry, but no, especially on a team like this, you aren’t “just teammates”, not when you’ve gone through the shit I’m presuming they have as special forces. Man, I mean even the effort soldiers go through just to secure the bodies of *DECEASED* comrades is truly incredible, and I doubt this would happen if soldiers didn’t naturally develop unique relationships that are far deeper than “just teammates”.
It also didnt make sense to how Ironwood leads the kingdom. Yeah he's no-nonsense. But he's not no-emotion. It just makes me wonder why they chose to make them seem robotic qhen the top of the top himself isn't a robotic type of man.
@@pandanator6681 Ironwood wanted them more loyal to him than each other. Apparently he had hidden paranoiac tendencies already, given his comment about "chasing a lot of shadows over the years". .
One thing that I wished they explored with the Ace-Ops was there former member, Tortuga. For anyone who doesn't remember, Harriet mentioned before Marrow joined, there was another Ace-Ops named Tortuga. This interested me because of how this character could've effected the Ace-Ops. It was stated that Tortuga died but the it was never directly shown how this character's death effected then rest of the team. Specifically Harriet as Tortuga was probably her partner due to the whole Tortoise and the Hare story. Maybe she's so broken up about Clover's death because she's lost another teammate and friend. I think this could've shown why Harriet and the rest of he Ace-Ops are the way they are, because they already lost someone close to them, and they never what to feel that pain again.
Wouldn't it be Poetic is if the reason Harriet is so about following orders is because she once....Wasn't? Like she'd follow some, but would make her own judgement a-lot, Usually for the best, But sometimes it resulted in problems, Grimm getting to close to Atlus or Even inside of Mantle, Destruction of property, But she still kept doing it. Until the Day she Got Tortuga Killed. Harriet and Tortuga were separated from the rest of their team, Given the orders to stay where they were and to not engage a Grimm, Yet she did anyway, leaving Tortuga behind, She ends up killing the Grimm And retuning to where Tortuga was, Yet not finding her, She searches for a bit, And eventually find's Tortuga, Lying down, unmoving. This breaks the Poor girl, Making her unable to not follow orders or else fear that the rest of her team will die.
@@Jacob_G9 OMG, I can't believe that I never thought about that scenario happening. It's really good. I had my own idea about Tortuga and Harriet's relationship being a rivalry and two always pushing each other to be better. One day on a mission, instead of Harriet not following orders, it was Tortuga who didn't and he was killed soon after. This event would've cemented Harriet's and the others always following orders philosophy.
I disagree about Marrow, who's clearly the Ace Ops' counterpart to Blake. He's a dog to her cat faunus, has a "dark" complexion compared to her "pale" one, & his faunus trait is "low" on his body, while hers is "high". Marrow "defected", like Blake did by running away from team RWBY twice. She also uses her emotions to make decisions, like when she attacked Roman (when Sunn wanted to infiltrate his meeting w/ the White Fang), or ran away from Adam (after he harmed Yang). And Blake's semblance "leaves a copy to take a hit" for her as she retreats, while Marrow's semblance basically forces him to "stands his ground". Plus he joined the military as a "token" faunus for society, while Blake rebelled against society as a member of the White Fang. He's always been a proud faunus, while Blake initially hid that part of herself from her teammates.
@@firepuppies4086 Indeed. It made her going thru "hardships" almost laughable. Plus it made everyone else seem stupid for not knowing that she was the "princess" of the White Fang.
This just made me feel worse about the writers make them lose to RWBY when they could've easily made Ruby and the others retreat after noticing that they can't take them, but I guess the main team can't have a loss....
Or if they did fight, they lost and had to retreat. It would’ve made the ace ops a goal that team RWBY have to overcome in the next volume. It would make team RWBY grow more as a team and discuss their team dynamic. But weirdly it seems to be the opposite, that fight was the start for the ace ops’ arc of having them grow as a team to get them to develop as characters while team RWBY was the goal they had to reach. It’s ironic, even though the ace ops are side villains, they have a better arc than the main team.
@@enderbrawler6576 True, but they refuse to make team RWBY have flaws for some reason, even yangs PTSD to adam was shoved aside when she met him I don't think the ace ops arc changed because of that fight, they never adressed it between them and was only brought up once when they met again, by the ace ops winning it would not only make it a goal but also make them a real obstacle to team RWBY since they winning only made they look like a joke when they confronted them again
@@vitoralmeida5496 Yeah you’re right, it was a real missed opportunity from the writers. But the only way for RWBY to develop then they have to have flaws which like you said, they apparently don’t have any. For team RWBY to lose they would have to have at least a flaw that they can learn from. If team RWBY could have a flaw I might suggest a lack of trust between them. After all the reason they became fugitives in the first place was because Blake and Yang went behind their backs and sided against Ironwood. This could disrupt their teamwork and allow the ace ops to take the victory. Then they spend the beginning volume 8 split up for a while like in the actual volume and begin to think about their actions. They then can come together and learn to trust one another again, growing as a team. I know it might not have been worded too well, but the point still stands that team RWBY needs a flaw to throw them off their game, allowing them to further explore their team dynamic and begin to grow closer as teammates.
@@vitoralmeida5496 well this show isn't that good, it has really good moments that show potential but most of the time the majority of people will just remember the cool fight animations, it's really a shame.
"Good friends are there when it's needed, not just convenient." *SUN.* Good video but I couldn't help growling at the screen this is *exactly* what made Sun a good friend more than anyone in RWBY.
@@johannesseyfried7933 Hey, it might have a little spice. I feel that bumblebee as they did is just... so they can say they did it. Those two are so bland together -_- If you're going to have relationships... put some god damn effort into them, otherwise don't bother... Though same could be said for many of their plot points.
Yes I agree I just re watched s4 and sun feels more like a friend to Blake than the rest of team rwby yeah he followed her and invaded her privacy but he did it to make sure she was okay and stuck around even when he almost got killed multiple times I’m sad we didn’t see him this volume except for in ep 5 for like 1 second
@@mrsamuel5572 When Monty died everyone at Rooster Teeth ran around yelling "I got an idea for a great character." Management was like, "Sure, why not? We will fit them in somehow."
To be fair, they were only 'dropouts' because their school blew up but yeah, that's what I had a problem with since season 4. The main girls are just the most powerful huntresses in the entire world, so it feels like everyone else has been nerfed into oblivion or are just retarded. Can you think of a single huntsmen that they just bump into and doesn't join their group that showed any level of competence? These are the professional huntsmen who have been doing this for years.
@@SallinKari Thats a big prob that i have with this show. They make team RWBY completly OP when theres no reason for them to be OP or it dosent make sense with the skills of their opponent.
@@goodevening412 Qrow should have been the only reason they weren't horribly murdered by Tyrian rather then someone he mostly fights then Ruby cuts his tail off and he is allowed to waddle away. Would have established they were out of their depth since they were in the 'real' world and there are people a lot more skilled then even Pyrrha which was the previous standard of strength... and one I don't think anyone has managed to reach since the great nerfing.
@@SallinKari Actually, the fight against Tyrian in Volume 4 is rather good : he simply destroys them 1 vs 4, and then goes into an even fight against Qrow. That was realistic. But the power level totally disappeared with volume 5 and after that, because Qrow became part of the team and therefore couldn't be that stronger than the rest of the his partners I guess...
@@the_nephandi4551 You mean where the entire team stands around with their thumbs up their ass? Then Qrow and Ruby stares at each other for like seven seconds until he gets stabbed and then just looks at Ruby again. I can not agree that was a good fight.
@@justjillhere1648 stay is broken as fuck he can do it to multiple people at once as well he could straight up freeze the leviathan and Salem in one go and call it a day
10:51 to 11:22 That actually sums up a lot of what's wrong with the writing at it's core. The characters are telling us one thing, but their actions and results of said actions tell a completely different tale. Like Cinder for example. Everyone TALKS about Cinder's ego and lack of teamwork skills is causing her failures yet in the first two seasons she had been in: (She took total control of the criminal underworld, and operations were running smoothly. Cripplied an entire army of the most advanced military androids on the planet and their warships. Force the white fang into recruitment, a terrorist group that would rather die than serve another, especially a human! Stole half of the Fall maidens, powers and crippled her to the point she needed life support. And then killed the maiden and got the other half. Caused a global panic and racial tensions between human and Faunus that still affecting the series to this day. Cut off Yang's arm (Indirectly, but it was still the result of Cinder's actions.). Forced Blake into hiding. Sent Weiss to her room. Found the silver eyes, The only being that can potentially kill salem. Killed Pyrrha and Penny, the strongest students at beacon, both of which are expert combantests who can pull entire airships out the sky without breaking a sweat. And killed Ozpin, who's at the very least, the most experienced hunter who's EVER LIVED.) And all of that was in the first two seasons Cinder appeared. And what is her "failings" according to the show? The divine light of god cripples her and she lost a fight to Raven once. A character mind you, who was already afraid of Salem and had given up long before the season she appeared in started, and hasn't been a threat since. She also happened to be a huntress who's only second to Summer and Ozpin, who also had the maiden powers.........😑 Do you see my point now?
The AceOps are great because of their connection to Ironwood, as they feel like their inclusion makes sense has his elite team. They should’ve had more time to delve into their personal reasons for doing what they do.
The ace ops were a great concept like most things in rwby which is a reason I'm still watching the show. But the writers just don't fully bring out their concepts or maybe their not capable of doing it. I don't know just my opinion.
I agree Rwbys biggest problem is just communicating it’s ideas and concepts and following through with characters, all the elements are there they just aren’t put together very well
Agreed. The writers genuinely have some great ideas, but then utilize them poorly. It's been a running issue with RWBY for a while that there's some genuinely great stuff in the show, but due to extremely questionable choices in terms of storytelling, character development, and screen time, it gets lost in the shuffle and the show suffers for it.
@@bootlegcrusader1773 I disagree. The biggest flaw of the show is the utter contempt the writers have for the audience. We may only experience the show in the EXACT way miles and kerry envisioned it and if our interpretations don't line up with that they will just gut them in an attemp to force us to have no other perspective. Just look at ironwood's actions through v7 and 8. And add to that the prevailing attitude behind the screen seems to be self-satisfaction when their best work so far story-wise was a filler arc in v6 which they probably didn't even write, and I sinferely want the show taken away from those two pillocks because honestly even yandere dev could write a better story.
@Games Eh, the writing is wonky in V7 and 8 in general, so I won't let that affect my opinion of Weiss. At some point I might just decide I don't care about those volumes and never rewatch them.
I hated how they where executed How did they loose to team RWBY In the first place? They had years of experience and they where training even when beacon was lost
@@steeredshark5542 the two women on the team specifically talked about not holding back during the fight, but then Hare used the excuse we were holding back later. :|
Ace ops losing to team RWBY was like Optimus losing to Bumblebee, Goku to Gohan, Batman to Nightwing or Superman to Superboy (Connor). Like, yeah, their "sidekicks" have potential and experiencie but come on....Best hunters my a**.
@@itsjustvin7630 In a fair fight? Tim? I doubt it. Nightwing and Cassandra Cain (Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan) are the only ones in the Batfamily who can beat him in a fair fight.
My main problem with the Ace Ops was that I just straight up didn't care. They get such little screen time or interaction with each other that I wasn't even slightly invested in their arc (apart from Marrow, who was at least likable). We can sure infer some things about why they acted the way they did, but I would prefer that it actually got shown. I don't even know if Harriet ever talked to Clover in V7.
@@Ramsey276one honestly, the Ace Ops should have curbstomped RWBY, since power scaling, flawed as it is, nevertheless shows Clover as equal to Qrow in skill, and assuming that we give the benefit of the doubt that his teammates are less skilled, they'd be around Winter level, which again makes no sense as to how they lost, other than the idiot ball was being tossed around more than death flags in Volumes 3, 5, and 6.
@@scarletshadow4548 Facts right there. Thats how some people felt about the adam vs yang & blake fight. Yang only trained against her dad with fists, while Blake never really trained at all. During vol 6 they only fought grimm. So the power scaling would have had Adam at the top with blake & yang below him yet blake & yang won even though they wernt really fighting him at the same time much, it was more taking turns.
Plot armor in what sense. Cause they definitely dont win every fight. They SHOULD have lost to Ace Ops but if they HAD to win....shit they shouldve all looked exhausted, battered, bruised and barely standing. Id say they have plot armor in the sense where they appear to be always right and the people opposing are somehow in the wrong.
Hmph. That seems to be a funny thing RWBY manages to do. Manage to pull off a lot of brilliance with something they seemingly give little focus or screentime to. Now, I certainly do wish that Vine got to stick around longer.
@EruptionFang One idea that I wanted to make a video about, that would be kinda pointless because I have like 11 subscribers and 0 videos, is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4) If you watch the volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like in one of your videos you mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8. I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead. For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow.
Well let's see in volume 3's ending yang lost an arm weiss was forced to go back home blake felt like an outcast and left to go back home and ruby set off with jaune nora and ren so yeah I know how you feel
Honestly, Harriet reminds me of Locus from RvB. Though, I feel like if they try to make Harriet "Switch Sides" [-Emerald] then they would just remove all of her interesting traits. Like what they did with Whitley.
Vine is my favorite character in this show without a doubt while I've given up on this series I actually really liked his character and how they can't ruin him like they did Iron wood because he's dead so best character for me
I hated how Vine died in Arrow Ragman used his rags to absorb a nuke and lost his powers as a result so I thought vine would just cover the bomb and jump off the ship as there was a other ship to land on but nope.
Vine wouldn’t have been able to hold it from the outside. The shockwave of the explosion has to find a way out. The funnel he’d create by extending his arms would be a one way trip direct back to him. He would’ve died either way unfortunately
It’s very funny how people dislike Harriet so much even though she is one of the most well written characters in the show. Meanwhile they like ruby because they have to like ruby cause the show is called rwby
I did believe harriet was the best ace op because she has development and had flaws. I kinda hate how I didn't notice how nice harriet design was until the last episode of volume 8 like what where was she the last two volumes. I am glad this video shed light on the hidden story of the Ace ops and their dynamic, etc. Great video man 💕💕❤️
I've said this before, but I really do appreciate these deep dives into characters rather than just watching someone react and bitch about everything. I feel like I appreciate the ace ops more now thanks to this. Well done
Nah, that was an early setup. Sets up the potential Summer drama, maybe since we didn’t get a Maria scene in the end we run into her? It sets up the idea that ‘hey this is a thing that can happen and how can it be expanded on?’
I feel Rwby is telling its story to quickly. Monty said that the ending of season 2 now is the ending of season 3. I feel like rwby should do this more. I don't mind having a few filler episodes if we have less rushed story.
Do you think the ending of season 3 would have been quite that dark thematically if Monty hadn't died? I feel like the ending of season 3 was the butterfly's wings that ruined later seasons with a hurricane.
I am going to stop watching RWBY and just watch your videos on them. When you cover RWBY I am filled with hope, intrigue and excitement. When I watch the actual show, I am usually saddened and disappointed.
RWBY introducing characters. Ignore them for the whole volume. Give them some character arcs/development. Kill them after that. That's how the writers waste the character potential.
Sadly it isn’t just reserved for characters they write to be antagonists either looking at Penny’s story. It’s like once a character has served their own personal arc, they’re on the chopping block which really ruins the potential that could have come as a result of said arc
Seriously. Why was it only these five (plus Winter)? Atlas, out of all the Kingdoms, are the ones who have most integrated their Huntsmen into an actual organised force. Why the hell aren't there entire platoons' worth of these teams working in conjunction with Atlas' other soldiers to do their jobs and actually help out during the evacuation? Why did Ruby's group have to pick up the slack? Where is the actual chain of command, other than just Ironwood being on top?
He was seriously emotionless and as stuck up as Harriet. At least even Elm had some sort of doubt from her expressions and body language, but he just went “friend.” Out of nowhere.
I actually agree with everything you said about the Ace Operatives, it was perfectly well reasoned and you clearly put a lot of time and effort into this video and analysis.
The more I watch these videos the more I see the diamonds in the rough that could've made the show more than what it is. Showing characters that have flaws that force them to rethink and grow is what a long series should focus on. But for team RWBY that's not the case. The heroes are meant to be perfect while others are just in the background and are then demonized if they stand up to the main characters. I would've loved to have seen the story behind how the Acs Ops were formed and how they interacted with each other when they weren't on duty.
Personaly, I would have just love that the Ace Ops weren't completely new characters. Instead of introducing and killing an entire new team in two volumes, I would have maybe preferred the Ace Ops to be Penny teammates. I would have kept Clover, Harriet and Marrow, remove Elm and Given Vine role to Ciel instead. Doing so would have boosted their signification, even more from Penny perspective.
I wasn't that invested in the Ace Ops. They were introduced through a ton of character shilling... and then CRWBY had them job just to make Team RWBY look better. It didn't work. It just made the Ace Ops look like morons.
Was referring to the JOB SQUAD IN WWF they were literal jobbers of the ATTITUDE ERA search it up, HELL I think it's safe to say that RETRIBUTION can be called JOB SQUAD 2.0
Harriet is kinda like Locust, being (or in Locust's case wanting to be) the best warrior by following orders but it also ultimately being their biggest faults
I'm gonna be honest, I really loved the AceOps, specifically Clover, and especially Harriet. You make so many good points about both of them, and I really wish we saw more of their characters and that their relationship was better shown. Its absolutely my personal headcanon that Harriet was crushing on Clover, but never wanted to admit it.
When we were first introduced to the Ace Ops, I loved them, I found them to be awesome and was happy to see more actual Huntsmen and then was proceeded to be disappointed at the end of volume 7 and the start of 8 but I did like them at the end of 8, where you showed, Harriet and Vine got some development. Oddly enough they are my favourites of the Ace Ops.
The reason Vine had to sacrifice himself was the one, easily missed line of "We'll never make it out of the blast zone in time!" which, if the bomb had that big of a blast radius....HOW FUCKING STRONG WAS VINE TO BE ABLE TO REDUCE IT THAT MUCH???? No fuckin wonder they had to kill him off, he would have taken Salem down by his own damn self if given the chance.
I wish they could make a book prequel of just the ace ops (kinda like what they did with team cfvy) they are so interesting and gosh you just put into words the reason why I couldn't hate Harriet like other people did
*Each member also has a parallel to someone in Salem’s faction in my opinion (Minus Clover).* *Harriet - Tyrian (Most loyal to their leader).* *Vine - Watts (Most level headed).* *Elm - Hazel (Biggest and most intimidating).* *Marrow - Emerald (Most likely to defect to the good guys).*
The Ace Ops never act like bad guys? *Maybe* when they still operated as a full unit (meaning back in vol 7 with Clover) you could make that argument, or maybe I'm just crazy, but Harriet being completely willing to just bomb a city that (to her most current knowledge) was still full of people she is 'supposed' to be protecting makes her, at least somewhat, of a bad guy (or gal, take your pick of the term). Also, this whole bit about Harriet trying to arrest Ruby rather than knock her out and all that... She could have knocked Ruby out, and then still arrest her. Knocking someone out doesn't mean your next step is to immediately kill them, like what..? Ruby didn't treat Harriet like trash by incapacitating her (arguably the writers did though), nor do I ever believe team RWBY and co were ever actively trying to kill the Ace Ops members, rather than just momentarily incapacitate them so they could escape. How was Ruby being petty at all in that scene where she incapacitates Harriet? Ruby did the smart thing (for like, one of the only times ever that I can think of) while Harriet did the stupid thing. That's not Ruby being petty; that's Harriet being incompetent (contrivance of the writers, and yeah, I agree that it's stupid that these dumbass kids can ever beat what is supposed to be Atlas' best in a fight). This show already has a problem where basically everyone is stupid in almost every scenario; let's not knock them when they finally do something remotely intelligent (especially with something like the supposed 'pettiness' of knocking your opponent out while trying to escape from them...). Besides that, yeah, not surprising that the writers wasted a lot of shit in the Atlas Arc of the story; they've been wasting most of the shit since at least vol 3 (and arguably since vol 1).
I think Eruption Fang meant that Ruby chucking Harriets unconscious body on the ground was rude, because it is. She could’ve gently set her down but she literally threw her, hurting Harriet when she didn’t have too, The Hound treated Oscar with that courtesy and he’s a GRIMM
She is not supposed to protect anything or anyone. She is supposed to follow orders - like any proper soldier or officer, especially since she's a member of what's supposed to be elite special forces. Her orders at that moment just happened to be "drop the bomb on Mantle".
@@PPWRUP She is either a soldier in a military, or a huntsman/huntress depending on how you wish to look at it (I, too, would say more soldier, considering how Atlas does things). Now, what is the job of a soldier? To defend their people and their country. In this case, 'country' is the Kingdom of Atlas. Argus is in the Kingdom of Atlas. The citizens of Argus are citizens of the Kingdom of Atlas. Quite literally, her job is to defend/serve/protect the same people she just tried to drop a bomb on. As either soldier or huntsman/huntress, this would be her job. She may have been following orders, but those orders directly contradict her job. Now, either the military of Atlas has a completely different purpose to it than every other military I can think of, or by the time we get to this point in the story, the military no longer considers anything outside of the city of Atlas and the people currently residing in it to be part of the kingdom. To this, I would say the second one is most likely, which only further goes to show just how inept and stupid Ironwood is as head of the military (though this is a side point). However, even going by this second line of reasoning, I would counter and say that no, a good soldier is not one that blindly follows all orders like Harriet does. A good robot blindly follows all orders; a good soldier receives orders and only follows them when they believe it is (within reason) an acceptable course of action to take in order to protect their country (kingdom) and their countrymen (the citizens of the kingdom). To say that dropping a bomb on a city within your own kingdom, killing your own civilians, when it objectively provides no benefit to do so is by no means reasonably acceptable ( to me, at any rate). Likewise, to say she isn't supposed to protect anything or anyone is just factually wrong; that's what a military is literally for: to protect and serve. Harriet following through with that order is not her being a good soldier, it is her being a good robot. A good soldier would be someone like Marrow; someone who will follow orders until they become objectively unreasonable to follow (such as dropping a bomb on your own people for objectively no beneficial reason whatsoever).
@@courtneycalvert185 If that is what EF meant, then yes, that is a fair point (I would say more dropped than chucked, but that is ultimately just semantics and irrelevant to the point itself, in which, again, he would be correct). Don't know where you're getting the hurting Harriet bit from though? To the best of my knowledge, we never hear of Harriet being injured/hurt from this act. I could be forgetting, but that seems like a random claim to try to make the situation look worse for Ruby than it really is by saying she injured/hurt an unconscious opponent.
@@ryan7337 Agreed and very well said, man. Obviously, I hope nobody joining the military is going into this profession expecting sunshine and roses. It can certainly be a very morally grey profession, and up here in Canada, one of the questions asked to people trying to enlist is whether they understand that they might be told to do things that contradict their own morals. I don’t think it would be at all productive if every second private decided to let their commanding officer know how they feel about every single order they receive, and it is certainly of the utmost importance that orders are carried out effectively, but as you said, within reason. I think this “within reason” in regards to choosing not to follow orders can vary greatly from person to person, but yeah, I’m with you on this one. What Harriet was trying to do would be like getting American military personnel to drop an atomic bomb on, I don’t know, Chicago or something. Good luck trying to find anyone who would actually comply with that (though of course an order like this would never be passed down to begin with, because Ironwood’s reasoning at this point is pretty much out the window). I still agree with a lot of what EF says here, despite my own problems with the Ace-Ops and the Atlas military as a whole (in regards to how the concept of camaraderie is portrayed), but I appreciated reading your comment. Also Ruby dropping Harriet does sligggghhtly irk me, as she just has this total look of indifference on her face after dropping her opponent on the ground like a sack of potatoes. I don’t know, not a big deal, but I see where EF is coming from.
Watching this video makes me feel like following the Ace-Ops would make for a more unique and genuinely better story. I mean it would be shorter and they would have to drop the whitefang stuff, which might bring some much needed focus as I always felt as if it was a different story entirely as it never impacts the world that much and only 50% of the main characters. So maybe that would be better handled as. A spin-off so that it could be handled with more depth and focus. Heck maybe you could still include it in the Ace-Ops show but make it another plotpoint that develops them or something. I feel like I just want some active and really dynamic characters that are consistent in their characterization. Because going of the principle that your main characters should be the most interesting ones when all the good ones, so the interesting ones, so basically Iron wood the ace-ops and winter, are located in Atlas maybe make the show about atlas.
Loved this video, super interesting. When you were talking about Winter's defection feeling un-impactful for the group, it made me think about how interesting it would have been if Clover had survived v7 and gone through Winter's exact arc (minus maiden stuff) from v8. So, what if in v7, Qrow developed a relationship with Winter and became friends with her instead of Clover, and she died? Giving both Qrow and Weiss strong motivators going into v8, and then Clover could begin to question Ironwood during Salem's invasion, making his eventual defection really impactful on his team. Anyway loved the video, great stuff as usual!
This shows main weakness at the moment are the main characers, which means that the show is best when focusing on others(like JNR, Oscar, Ozpin, the Ace Ops etc).
The pandering is honestly what's holding this show back, I genuinely believe the writers can write but they are pushing the crowd favourites and giving them all the cool moments, rushing important character development in order to sell their merch and stuff like that. They just need to stand their ground write the story they want to write get more people on the team and let go of the guys who don't know what they are doing
Rule to RWBY after Volume 3. Every person you love the show wants you to hate and every person you hate the show wants you to love. The only exception to this is Oscar, team JNPR, and CFVY.
Actually, Jaune and Nora (especially Nora) are insufferable. Ren disagreeing with the group was a breath of fresh air, but he goes back to sucking on Nora.
To me the Ace Ops really helped bring me back into RWBY. To me they carried the spirit of original couple of volumes. Of them I think elm is the weakest as her semblance just seems to be a weaker version of vines and her weapon seems to similar to Noras.
And now that they're stuck with Qrow and *grins* Robyn maybe their characters can be further developed, y'know now that they're apart of the "good guys" Hopefully some lingering resentment towards Marrow, from either Harriet or Elm (maybe both)
I definitely think the Atlas arc should've been longer. 2 Volumes doesn't equal the same story progression. Especially if one volume only lasts for like 2 in-series days. We barely got around to see what Atlas "the greatest kingdom" looks like. Only Mantle and part of the academy. We know that the Atlas people up there barely seen Grimm but it doesn't get addressed. With making an extra arc between V7 and V8, they could've expanded on their world building, flesh out their characters like Ace Ops and Happy Huntresses. Also it could've worked better with Ironwoods trust issues and paranoia. Salems plan was always to make him paranoid and the theme "trust love" from team rwby was supposed to work against that. They managed to calm IW down in the Schnee Manor and then everyone worked together for Mantle. But then IW got paranoid again. Tbh if I didn't watch IW compilations, I wouldn't have noticed most of what his character arc was about and how close he was to actually overcome his paranoia. My suggestion would've been to put the Jacques election part in a 7.5 volume ( so like between V7 and V8) . This would've given us more time on the Happy Huntresses Mantle and Ace Ops Atlas parallel, make an actual good Schnee arc, make the villains appear more threatening. You know? End the V7 with the scene of Watts entering Jacques office after we had V7 focused on Mantle, Happy Huntresses, Atlas, Ace Ops, IW and Schneeblings. And then do the whole election thing with Penny being framed in V7.5 and then do the actual tragedy like it happened in v8
Underutilized, underdeveloped, underwhelming, underrated, take your pick. I still felt absolutely nothing for them and that’s more due to the pisspoor writing.
Wow, if i didnt know better, you either are an avid reader, a lit major or a film major. . . . or none of these but possessing such keen understanding of narratives. succinctly put, ideas i tried to write but couldnt find the major threads to do so. XD
Vine wouldn’t have been able to hold it from the outside. The shockwave of the explosion has to find a way out. The funnel he’d create by extending his arms would be a one way trip direct back to him. He would’ve died either way unfortunately.
Almost feels like whatever it is they are doing to these side characters is what they should be doing to the main cast, think about it, almost everyone has loved side characters more because they brought something to the table, actual depth of character that made them shine,but the main group doesn't so they end up butchering the actual loved characters for some damn reason.
I see a pattern in most(if not all) of your videos regarding RWBY and it's the lack of buildup when it comes to what happens within the show, which is something I completely agree with. I personally think the writers have time constraints and they probably have to cut off a lot of things which if they added it would make the show objectively more solid. I believe the writers are competent but they are just forced to choose at this point, those are my thoughts.
My opinions on each of the Ace-Ops. (Excluding Winter) Clover - I like him, though a bit overrated but I did cry when he died. Harriet - She didn't learn until the final episode of Volume 8 and she was just "following orders" instead of thinking for herself. And I hate her personality too. Yes, it's a good flaw that should be needed but I hate it. Elm - She may have a bit of a temper tantrum like Yang but I founded her hilarious. Though her Semblance sucked though. Vine - He's the most calmest and tries to resolve things peacefully first. I love his design and personality and I actually cried when he sacrificed himself to save his friends and Qrow. Marrow - My favourite member because he may be hilarious, but he goes through a character progression in Volume 8 thinking what he was doing is "really" the right thing to do and his defection makes the most sense. I love him so much.
I like your perspective on the Ace ops, and it has helped me have a more rounded view on them overall, but I do think the whole respect towards the enemy thing at the end was a little off. the ops always thought of themselves as superior to Ruby and the others, so they never really took them seriously. any punches pulled was more of an ego thing in my opinion
nora was actually in the pocket dimension directing people through the big portal to vacuo at the time. the very next scene after vines sacrifice is the one where jaune tells her to go to vacuo to get backup. so naw
@@ArklusDryxal you don't see her again for the latter half of the episode. shes banging on the portal at like, the very end of the episode. and its pretty stupid that she didn't help out her friends at all as they're presumably dying right in front of her so its completely understandable to assume that she just wasnt present.
I get your points but I don't care about them. I can't. They were treated as mere obstacles to make the main characters shine because the plot demanded it. They were relegated to a side plot and were constantly stealing screentime from the main plot, and unlike with Raven and Ironwoods, they felt like disposable characters from the beginning and I never got attached to them.
The Ace-Ops should’ve been like “The Seven” of Atlas’s military (not entirely exactly, but to an extent) (in terms of power) Clover - Homelander (SOLEY for the leadership and the Homelander that the public sees) Elm - Queen Maeve (Strength and durability, plus she’s already Buddy-Buddy with Clover) Harriet - A-Train (self explanatory) Vine - Translucent (since his powers are different enough compared to his teammates) Marrow - Starlight (really the only thing I can think of is that Marrow was having second thoughts and was genuinely unwilling to fight Team RWBY at first) All we need is two more members to stand in for The Deep and Black Noir (powers and ability-wise I mean)
What pisses me off about the entire history of the Ace-Ops unit is that they were so easily defeated by our main characters. Which in a normal world should be impossible in my opinion. Our heroes are Hunters-in-training who never completed their full training due to the Fall of Beacon. Sure they had gained some experience along the way thanks to all the battles they had been involved in, but that still couldn't compare to an elite team of fully trained Hunters who had completed dozens of missions and operations of various types. This should give them plenty of combat experience and skills that would allow them to outshine Team RWBY in every aspect. And yet, for some reason, our heroes managed to defeat the elite of Atlas' army, several times. How? It's simple, plot armor. Since our "heroes" are the main characters of the series, there is no way they could lose. Conclusion: Ace-Ops were nerfed for story purposes. There is no other explanation for this in my opinion.
And there was a literal way to justify nerfing them - say that their Auras were already low before the fight. Put it on a screen in the background or have James warn them before leaving the room.
