The AK12 - a sad chapter for the Kalashnikov? feat. Brandon Herrera [Podcast Ep. 1] 

Download the audio version of this episode at www.9hpodcast.com

Good to see the crossover between the “educational” guntubers and the “entertainment” guntubers.

Glad to see Brandon branching out, hopefully he gets more comfortable in the more serious information sharing side of YT. He definitely has some esoteric AK knowledge that should be shared.

To elaborate on Brandon‘s point about the krink as a status symbol. Originally the AK74U was really only issued to vehicle crewman for self-defense. So the only source in Afghanistan were the weapon became famous was to take out a Russian vehicle or helicopter and loot the Krink from the dead or wounded crew. Possessing one of those rifles implied that you were a skilled enough or dangerous warrior to be able to take out a powerful Russian war machine and thus the weapon became a symbol of skill or ones individually lethality. Osama bin Laden while never actually fighting in the Afghan war used one in all of his videos to give himself clout in the eyes of other Arabs. Also have any AN-94s been spotted yet in Ukraine?

The part where the satelite states focused on defencive war is 100% correct. My father was a border patrol soldier in Bulgaria and he told me that their doctrine was : The border troops hold the line for a 1-2 hours, until our army arrives. The they together hold the line for a day or two untill the Warsaw pact and the USSR arrive. At that point they counter attack

It really is amazing to think how all the analysis of stuff like this used to happen in smoky rooms in Langley, with Jack Ryan types poring over grainy photos taken by someone with a camera hidden in their lapel button, and now all those photos are on the internet within minutes of being taken and analysed by experts around the world within hours. The internet has changed the world so much, so fast.

10:50 "they were worried their troops would loose them" is code for: "they were worried that the troops would sell the optics and report them as lost items"

Given that both of you released critical videos of the AK12 around the same time, it’s great to see you collaborate together. Keep up the great work!

Great podcast!

Jokes on you guys, the airsoft AK12 handguard is more stable then the real one...

We need a longer video! I learned so much from Henry and it was pleasant (for once) to have brandon for comedic relief.

I’d like to see some Russian POW’s interviewed, and give their opinions on the rifle. I know a volunteer in Ukraine, and he actually mentioned how he heard a captured Russian say that they weren’t even being issued the new AK12 mags, but rather the regular 74 mags. So the best part about this rifle can’t even be taken advantage of by Russian troops.

"They don't have optics because they feared soldiers would lose them." Nah, I think the more probable reasons are: A) They feared the soldiers would steal them B) They were stolen already

Just want to track off of the AK to say that, as MP5 receivers have been successfully made out of PLA+ (complete with integrated pic rail), it is absolutely possible to build a polymer MP5. The question is not whether it can be done, but whether, in the modern era, it makes sense to do that when there are so many other options now that do the same thing as the MP5, but do it better.

I think the AKV-521 proves that the guys in Kalashnikov knew what the limitations were of the AK-12 as adopted I wish i could own an AKV-521 IN 7.62X39, but sadly i don't see that happening in tge near or far future

Topic: Get the stuff that works with your rifle Durring Trainig to become an infantry officer we didn´t get LLM (Laser-Light Module) for our G36, because our captain thought we might break them in training. So we were ordered to use/buy flashlights so we can illuminate dark rooms or trench shelters. Two months later durring training with the vehicles we got some thermal imaging sights and could use them, because they were lent from another training unit... Sometimes officers to shitty things for very shitty reasons...

If we were basing the AK-12's efficacy based off Girls' Frontline we'd be saying the reason the Russians aren't doing better is that they aren't fielding 12's partner AN-94. And personally if we are going off GFL I want more OTs12s

Some of the AK-12 issues could be related to corruption. Do a cheap "upgrade" to the platform, pocket the money left over. It makes the questionable design choices make sense.

It is funny, I bought the Saiga TR-3 model (in 7.62) back in January when they became available here in Austria and in March I sold it and got a Saiga MK103 instead because I was underwhelmed with it. (wobbly handguard, harder to clean, etc) It is great to see you guys came to the same conclusion. :)

You should have a podcast with Oxide on combloc, AKs and the AK12 etc. I'd love to see all three of you chat if possible

ZenitCo aside the existence of the AK-74MR or other modernization kits that were offered and used by the Russians makes one question the need for the AK-12. I see more footage of optics equipped AK-74Ms than AK-12s in Ukraine among Russians.

There’s a Ukrainian video of a captured BTR being emptied out with several sights found inside the officer’s bags. It’s on Butusov Plus.

I would have liked to heard more about the shifting zero in the top cover. Also at least the last round hold open in the PSL is kinda cool.

I think it's hard to look at the AK-12 without speculating about massive corruption between oligarchs in the Russian military and Kalashnikov Concern. The Russian military would have come up with a better rifle at a much lower price if they had kept the AK-74M in service and purchased 10,000 modernization kits from Zenitco. But that wouldn't have been nearly as lucrative for Kalashnikov Concern as developing a "new" rifle.

I would love to hear this type of conversation for the Galil/Galil ACE. Also comparing the road the Sako 92 took compared to other rifles with sighted dust cover.

The Optics cant be issued. They are needed to ensure that the unit passes inspection. Missing BII will ensure the Cdr gets a below zone OER.

I've seen at least one extreme example of barrel harmonics being effected by touching the barrel. My grandfather had a 22 mag rifle that, when properly rested, was more than capable of putting all but the cheapest ammo into a dime at 50 yards. However, if you put any outside forces on the naked barrel past the stock, you'd be lucky to get even a 6in and probably more like a 12 in group at that same 50 yards even with high quality ammo. Was definitely a bit surprising when we first discovered just how extreme the difference was.

On free-floating: I have a Vepr Pioneer (basically a modified RPK with a monte-carlo type stock). It’s a nicely built gun, but some of the choices they made to sporterize it are odd to me. When sighting it in, the rifle would group well, then the point of impact would shift inexplicably. Turn out that the (tiny) front sling swivel threads in through the forestock into the gas block. As I shot, the sling swivel would work loose, and the forestock would no longer apply tension to the barrel. Since the swivel is so tiny and flimsy, and the forestock wood so thin around the hole, I decided to just leave it of and zero it without barrel tension. Shoots fine now.

40:00 mark, the French did the same thing. The barrel band on a MAS-36 has a special screw that only armories were permitted to remove. If you did it in the field, the rifle would lose zero and couldn't be easily re-zeroed. It was an armorer level task. You had to put the rifle in a jig, apply pressure to align the barrel and then install the handguards, using the barrel band as a clamp of sorts to hold it in position.

I really think that the AK 100 series with zenitco or sureshot upgrades are really the peak of what an AK can do. The next Russian service rifle should've been something built from the ground up as a new design maybe like a longer version of the AM-17 rifle which has a design very much like a lot of other modern rifle designs (IE scar, Bren 805, ACR, APC 223 where the monolithic upper receiver unit has the bolt and carrier and lower assembly has the trigger and magwell)

They probably are afraid the troops would "loose" the night vision to the black market.

Also weird to think that the A-545 got adopted and just... vanished. A lot like the AN-94 after it was adopted. It's kinda even weirder though because the earlier iteration (AEK-971) saw combat operations with Vympel during the 2nd Chechen war and performed well. Probably too expensive but actually seems to have been a decent rifle, decent enough to get actually adopted alongside the earlier iteration of AK-12 that passed trials

Personally I find it quite fascinating how much of a difference between the early AK-12 and current issue AK-12 models really are. The internals probably haven't changed, but externally they are so completely different, and the reversion back to what is really a glorified AK-74M with some fancier furniture is quite astounding.

10:50 sounds plausible to me. Here in Taiwan, ROC Army has this issue of technically having equipment while not issuing them to soldiers for similar reasons.

I think AK200 series has literally done the job of modernization of AK rifle and it seems pretty nice, I don't understand how AK12 just abandons all the effort.

This is already shaping up to be one of my fav podcasts

In the Black Hawk Down book the soldiers explain that they did not bringt the night vision equipment because the officers told them not to bring them. It was a daytime mission and the reasoning was damaging the expensive optics. In the end they did not have them during the night. But same thing in a combat zone.

I think the biggest problem with the AK-12 is that we're getting them in 2022. If these things had rolled stateside in, say, 2006? 2010? It would be a competent upgrade.

It’s so weird seeing Americans disappointed that another country’s military rifle sucks . Especially when the country isn’t an ally of ours . I’m personally happy with them adopting an even worse Ak .

The one question I have is how much lower the per unit price of an AK-12 is compared to a 100 series rifle. Do any of the questionable design choices lead to say less machining time. I'd think will be enough of them acquired that it's a significant enough production run to warrant changes to save money. As for all the odd places to trap corrosive gunk, it could be similar to the receiver lifespan of the stg44: anyone who survives long enough for that to be an issue gets another rifle.

PSA: Everybody watch out for scammers. They will reply to your comment posing as the channel youre watching saying youve won something. Their profile pic will be the channel's, but their name will be a means of contacting them. DO NOT CONTACT THEM, REPORT THEM.

It seems that the AK 200 series seems better in comparison to the AK 12. All the good things about the traditional AK, while having the means to mount accessories like a modern western rifle.

Prob not possible but having one of you two get that bullpup Ukrainian Ak to compare the modernized rifles would be amazing.

11:00 as a Mexican, let me tell you that this is something that indeed has happened

Henry... On the FAL, If we didnt push for 308 as part of the M14 and the FAL ended in .280, would the AR need to be adopted anyway? 280 seemed like the perfect cartridge in the late 50s

The part that needs to be free floated is the upper hand guard because….. gas tube is hot. But it’s better to do it the zenitco way where it locks and attaches to the lower handguard and has steel reinforcement inside of the upper hand guard that prevents it from bending which works in tandem with the reinforced polymers.

Watching Brandon’s dark humor catch people off guard is hilarious.

From watching this video, I definitely think I would want a modernized AK-74M over an AK-12. I will say though, every mainline AK rifle gets an Modernized variant (AKM, AK-74M). Maybe the AK-12 will also receive an AK-12M that will fix the issues present in the current AK-12.

I love it when content creators come together. 👍🏼

I would argue that "operator" requirements are far different than the average line soldier, the mission is wholly different, especially in the Russian military.

GFL reference lets goo

The lack of optics among the Russian forces definitely seems to be a problem of logistics + corruption. Despite having several homegrown optics, even some intended for general issue, the Russian infantry just never seem to get them

You heard right, the US Army is loath to issue equipment specially purchased for units deploying to combat for the most preposterous "REASONS". When I arrived in Iraq in 2004 the 4th ID was carrying AK-47s and Dragonovs we had been issued new M-4s but there were not enough to go around so I got an M-16A2 . The brand new MITCH helmets issued to us were forbidden to be used by us so we went through a year in combat with the old PASGT helmets. The body armor was junk too.

That Enfield barrel whip is true and the worst was the #5MK1 as that jungle carbine version had a free floated barrel for 2/3 of the barrel length and as such accuracy was all over the place.

Upcoming drunk Ziga reaction/segment: "BLYAT, it sucks!" Need to get Othais for a chat. Just trick him into talking about something random so he doesn't panic on preparation for the chat.

It isn't just that the AK sucks, that's one thing. It's that the AKM74/AK100 series already exists, and has existed for years, and is objectively better despite being decades older. The AKM with a siderail has a better optic mounting capacity than the AK12, and both have the same white light capability if one just adds polymer picrail handguards from the aftermarket. _AND_ the "Alpha" AKMs are superior to the AK12, and can take proper optic and IR devices, while being a commercially available upgrade to existing stocks of rifles. It isn't just that the AK12 sucks, it's that there was a cheaper, more readily available, and better option already available and widely used.

Why is the 200 series skipped over so much? It’s essentially a 100 series with the same railed dust cover as the Vityaz, telescoping & folding stock, optional railed hand guards (and I think gas tube as well). Other than those things the only difference from the 100’s is manufacturing process on how the barrel is populated. Instead of having to be pressed on and then pinned, the parts slide on and then are pinned (like a AR barrel gas block, ect). You see them in the hands of some “special” Chechen units that a lot of people probably mistake as being AK-12’s at a glance.

I believe russian Doctrine for night vision was mounting the night vision unit as a sight on the gun. Which wouldn't need a laser to be effective.

The soviet union was iffy on magazines in ww2 because they worried the soldiers would lose them (they were expensive), so I believe them doing the same for optics

wohw.. Brandon is using technical language in a correct context in a helpfully context. mmm..... Excellent video

"minute of Pollock!" I'm dying!!!!!

I honestly want an Ak12 or the civ TR3 rifle just to have as a collectors item, when it comes to an actual AK I would use to defend myself with that would be an Ak 102.

So you guys might be interested in this one guy Perun, he put out a video about Russian corruption (in relation the the Ukraine conflict), that I just kept coming back to as you talked about all the shortcomings of the AK12. Short and sweet of it is that their is graft at every level in Russia. From the general putting out the requirements, to the oligarch getting the hookup from production selection, to every level of officer and armorer that touches the damned thing. So the AK12 coming with no optics, shitty hand guards, etc, is perfectly understandable in my eyes. Hell, a damned good reason for them to not use zenico or any popular aftermarket parts would be because they know the armorers would hawk that shit.

I'm a russian and I have some things to say about russian training and equipment. It's very common for at least russian consripts to barely ever shoot, almost never train with the proper equipment or even have access to the equipment they're supposed to be proficient with if that equipment is expensive. So the thing about not issuing optics because the commanders are worried that soldiers will lose it or break isn't just plausible, I have no doubt that's very much the case. Shit, my friend who served in the army as a conscript was supposed to be a sniper. So he had an SVD. Sounds reasonable for now right. The problem is, the optics on his SVD were literally locked in a black plastic case because the commander was worried that he will scratch it. You have shit like conscripts who are technically truck drivers, that's their military job, but they don't even have a fucking driving license and haven't driven the truck once during their service. You can easily find a communications specialist who hasn't turned on a radio once during his service. Commanders steal shit all the fucking time, especially the fuel. So it's not uncommon for a tank driver conscript for example, to only drive for about a 100 meters during the training exercise and that's it. Why? Cause the commanders sold the fuel and there's just not enough of it left to conduct a proper training exercise. Conscripts are underequipped to such a degree that they fucking steal socks from each other. You want clothes that fit properly? What is this, Tokyo fashion week? You get clothes twice your size. It's not uncommond for half of the vehicles to be out of comission because the parts were either stolen or used to repair the few vehicles that work. So that when the oversight comission comes to check on the combat readines, those few working vehicles are used to put on a happy face for the comission. It's sounds like I'm making shit up, but I'm really not. It's fucking absurd the state of the russian army.

Bloke on the Range has some great videos on the Lee Enfield stocking that shows how the harmonics are supposed to work. I used those as a reference for a No4 Mk1 that was bedded incorrectly to fix it and it went from a 10+MOA gun to a 3 MOA gun.

the position of the safety on my rifle is irrelevant, mostly. What the AK platform could do, relatively easily, to modernize is a left-side, non-reciprocating charging handle, and last-shot hold open. having the ability to simply shove the mags in would be awesome, too, but not entirely necessary. And no that doesn't turn the AK into an AR. It can have all that *not* be an AR. Is it more complcated? Yes. Does it make field stripping more difficult? Not really. Two of the three features noted aren't usually worked on unless it's in a more controlled environment. And, correct me if im wrong, would be issues handled by an armorer. Whatever rails, suppressors, etc. you fell would be a good idea, let's hear it!👍 Those 3 are my top picks.

Its like how the M16 got upgraded and evolved into the modern M4 during the GWOT......

In the soviet/russian arms production this sort of suboptimal design is common. Just like the Mig-23 or the T-62, to name a few examples. Reason being that the state essentialy negotiates with itself, so political connections are more important then quality.

Subscribed to both 9-Hole and Brandon but only stumbled upon this by accident.

Explains why I see so many captured AK12’s not being used in Ukraine lol. Seen alot of pics of Ukrainians with “liberated” 12’s but they never use them. Ak74>Ak12. Which sucks cuz they look awesome

minute of pollock lol. this is why we all love brandon XD xaxaxaxaxa

I think it’s funny for years everybody wanted an ak12 and thought they were the best ak but even if you got on the russian side of the internet the russians have been saying its a pretty bad gun for years

It changed so much from the initial sleek prototypes that I don't think you can call it the "AK-12" anymore, more like the "AK Third".

I'm upset there is not enough anime and game talks in here! Thank you for making this, I pray for future episodes and more fun topics coming from this podcast~

Great conversation! I am perfectly happy with my 12.5" Bulgarian AK74. No, it's not a 105 but close enough for me. There are features I like with mine which to me makes it better than the 105.

Brandon's shirt makes me want to eat a bag of reeses in front of a group of friends and refuse to allow them to have any

I know from US gov contracting, we will have a team develop the requirements and actually go through the whole design process and have a product. Then the first team makes a list of specs and throw the almost finished product away; giving that list to another team to develop from scratch, but have no feedback or contact with the initial team. The end result is we pay twice for development, and the second team usually has no clue why they are doing the thing that are on the spec list and only by pure luck we end up with something that the end user wants, needs and can use.

"you're not going to make a polymer MP5" i don't know enough about guns to discuss about this but people started 3D printing those too now and they're lighter, it's pretty cool! by the way, a 3D printed guns episode with Print Shoot Repeat would be fantastic in the future

I love listening to y'all talk about guns, its kind of a driver vs mechanic dynamic.

One thing I felt was missing form this conversation, understandably so since I think neither one of you has handled one yet...but I´d LOVE to see the pair of you have a similar conversation in the future over Ukraine's modernization of the AK in the form of the Vulcan/Malyuk bullpup. Not quite the same(since it is after all a bullpup), but a big part of that program was to combine the tried and true guts of an AK with furniture that would allow for the use of the full spectrum of modern attachments. I´d imagine that getting a hold of one right now is....difficult....but doing parallel reviews of it and then a discussion afterwards would be some great, great content.

We still have bunch of 7.92X57 ammo in stock and we are producing match grade variety at low cost and large amounts. Not to mention that it is both ballistically and physically superior to 7.62x54R, physically because it lacks that R. I served with that m76 in hand and it is a great rifle, not perfect, but much better then M91. That was also a devolution in my opinion.

More podcasts please!!! Both of you.

Reminds me of the SA80, pooped out to a date to allow privatisation of the armoury

Off topic, but has anyone heard from Vladimir Onokoy since the Ukranian "Special Operation" started? I'd love to hear his opinions on this, but I also don't want to get him shot, either.

It’s funny because the ak12 has zentico rails for the al12 but the whole point was so it didn’t need zentico parts

At 37:30 Brandon says it doesn’t make sense to free float a hand guard on a long stroke gas system rifle before the gas block? Does anyone know why? Genuinely curious.

Good chat, fellas. Always fun geek out with Henry. 😂

Fantastic episode

Would greatly enjoy seeing more video like this! Thank you both!

"Does the AK-12 commit various forms of falatio?" Hahahahahahahaha,...that is the funniest thing I've heard all month.

Two of my all time fav. guntubers ...Great video and great observations.. With the 74 they could have gotten so much more for so much less..

I can see what the Russians were trying to do with more moderation while keeping the weight at a min. But with any new rifle being in combat, it’s going to have problems. I can see them making some changes like the gas tube, trigger, and make the handguard more stable

10:50 it's not officers not issuing sights because they don't want soldiers to lose them. It's soldiers who refuse to use them because if they lose optics (or destroy them) they will have to answer for it... That's why you see SpetsNaz using them at a rate of 90% (yes there are spetsnaz who refuse to use optics) but you arerly see regulars using them unless NCO (they kinda stick for eachother).

46:03 well.. Onokoy basically said the same verbatim at russian army expo in 2019 (you can check out 715 Team video "Армия 2019" at around 13 : 47 timestamp, youtube auto-translation works alright)

Holy fucking shit, Henry knows about GFL.

No guys, the AK12 without optic is perfect. Iran, China, Pakistan, North Korea, Venezuela, they should all adopt it

I've seen other u tubers trying to get zero on sporterized Lee Enfield's without the original fore ends then complaining that they can't understand why people like old service rifles ! Please watch bloke on the range for better understanding of pre load on barrel /fore ends to get better shot groups !

That one hit hard 1:08:58

Great conversation 👍👍

The AK12 feedback loop sounds a bit like the feedback loop on the M16 acceptance.