I know a guy who has survive a broken Zygomatic, Maxilla bone plastic surgery repair his face and has a glass eye from life not ashamed to show and tell who he survived unfortunately passed away in 7 grade.
My grandfather had early onset Alzheimer’s. He was taken to the Selkirk ( Manitoba) mental hospital in 1949. We found medical records stating he had a lobotomy done. Makes me so sad.
I have records that indicate the procedure was done and pathology showed Alzheimer’s. I have never actually been able to obtain the actual operative report or pathology. Apparently there was a fire that destroyed a lot of their records.
This is literally one of my worst nightmares. My brain being mutilated while I’m still awake, aware that I’m losing myself and not being able to do anything about it. I couldn’t even imagine how horrifying that must have been for the people who went through it.
@@sonya1500 Well, JFK'S sister allegedly cried, yelled and hammered her fists against her mother's chest, after seeing her for the first time after a lobotomy. We might describe some disabilities like "with the mind of a two-year-old" or other metaphors but these people do have memories and thoughts that are similar to non-disabled people. Comparing it to dreams, you can't escape, might be more aptly. Confusing messes of information, sensations and feelings while not being able to communicate effectively with your surroundings, sounds nightmarish. Especially, when you used to read books, have friends, articulate yourself well and suddenly you end up in a care center barely doing anything for 24 hours a day every day.
Had to pause the video to appreciate that he was holding someone’s brain. Once someone’s personality traits, and an entire lifetime of experiences in the palm of his hands. Crazy stuff.
@Daniel Kutovoy Antidepressants dull emotions for a little while but in the long run they are very beneficial and the emotions return. Depression is caused by neuronal death in the hippocampus and antidepressants help stimulate new neural growth in that area. So yes, it sucks for awhile (I know from experience unfortunately), but in the end your brain isn't dying anymore!
@Daniel Kutovoy depends on the antidepressant. when i was depressed and i took one type (i cant remember which medicine) it made me more depressed and angered me quickly, it changed the way i think for the worse. you ever heard the expression "id rather feel pain then nothing at all"? it made me not feel as much emotion, so i quit taking them, and 6 months later i stopped thinking about suicide. Some anti-depressants work for some patients, but the trials you'd have to go through are not worth it
@@SumriseHD the original creator of the lobotomy, not the transorbital variety it was different and just as bad, did in fact win a Nobel prize. The argument the Nobel award committee make on why it should not have been revoked was that it was created in a time where there was absolutely zero alternatives and it did "help" to a degree in making people more manageable, not necessarily better.
I remember watching a documentary where studying doctors would learn the names of the bodies they studied in school. Outside the room that housed the bodies, they would write notes thanking the person who donated their body to science. Those people in the back of the video are amazing for donating their bodies.
Tbh i would probably do the same. When you are dead you are dead, might aswell give your corpse. I might consider to make sure my body will be used by them !
@@hsur3844 if you do forward with this please go directly through a university. The most prominent cadaver donation companies are for profit and will "rent" parts of your bodies to basically any organization for God knows what. There was actually a case of a cadaver being dismembered and an autopsy performed for the entertainment of the paying crowd. The people in attendance were not people studying in school, rather people who were just curious. That man donated his body for science, not for weirdos directing him. It's sad.
I read lobotomies were also used on people with ADHD back when it was misunderstood. Parents would use it on their kids that couldn’t control them because they were always hyperactive.
This method of medical relief was truly FIRING, I can't believe they would ever think to jam an ice pick IN someone's brain. This is one of THE most unimaginable procedures ever, making a HOLE in someone's head is insane.
This is actually too sad as my *lovely* Uncle had this *done to him* after he had a mental breakdown. After the lobotomy - he became passive - but never lived a normal life (chosing to walk backwards when in public with various phobias of water). After he died I cleared out his flat and there were so many letters when he refused the operation, tried to leave his parents and ended up having it forced on him. ... I miss him and this video shows what he went through. I guess his Dad (my Grandad) wanted him to take over a huge business - the pressure got to him - like it could to anyone. But what Father would do that to their own son? Too sad. They're all dead now :- (
His father might not have known any better. A lot of people didn’t. It too Thorazine and too many people ruined more than anything for people to realize that it was a poor way to handle issues. Now, lobotomies are handled much differently and very rarely done.
For christian belief, soul is the center of emotions, rationality and stuff. Since know nowadays that the frontal lobe is responsable for exactly that, you can say that lobotomy is separating the flesh from the soul. Hb 4.12 talks about the word of God being able to separate the spirit from the soul.
There were many insane shrews and other crazies who were calmed down by this procedure. It also depended on who did it and how exactly it was done. I had read that one doctor used liquid nitrogen injected into this region to kill the offending parts or brain storm that caused the crazy mood swings and that he had some success with it instead of destroying the personality. Some people are just very unruly and monstrous and in those days they used these methods to permanently subdue idiots with no regard for others.
Yes and back then you could be normal and someone just say you were insane. Then hold you against your will and like you said be a pet. Today they still hold people against their will and remember THEY say you are a danger to everyone NOT you.
@KlodFather yes this was a procedure for the insane, but if I remember correctly, unruly children and neurodivergent people (which I am one) also suffered this procedure.
@@lastchanc3stars that is sad to hear. I hope things get better. Society has a habit of removing problems for every day life and into a hospital, a jail, mental institution, rehab etc…
Id be interested to learn about what a headache is what and where it is effecting and the difference between a headache and a migraine such as when I get a migraine my eyesight is effected ect
The brain has no nerve endings, so there is no pain in the brain. Its the tissue between your brain and your cranium that is what is hurting when you have a headache
Rosemary Kennedy In her early young adult years, Rosemary Kennedy experienced seizures and violent mood swings. In response to these issues, her father arranged a prefrontal lobotomy for her in 1941 when she was 23 years of age; the procedure left her permanently incapacitated and rendered her unable to speak intelligibly. The Soviet Union banned the surgery in 1950, arguing that it was "contrary to the principles of humanity." Other countries, including Germany and Japan, banned it, too, but lobotomies continued to be performed on a limited scale in the United States, Britain, Scandinavia and several western European countries well into the 20 Th Century !
They'd give out lobotomies like it was candy. Even if they had no disorders of any kind, why bother disciplining your child when the nice doctor will turn him into a nice well behaved living room decoration for you?
@@archkull I would much rather have a child with autism and raise them like any other person would raise their kid, instead of having someone scramble their brain and turn them into nothing less than a human.
Thinking about this terrible procedure made me wonder if the reason why some older people were so against openly talking about mental health is because of the possibility of THIS being their fate…
but openly talking about mental health is exactly what would prevent this kind of fate, people were very ignorant (not too different from now, which is a lot less dire) about mental conditions back then
Worst part is that those neurons are still alive. So what it might actually feel like is being lost in darkness deprived of all sensory information, while the body is controlled on autopilot by the rest of the brain.
This is what I imagine dying from a headshot/traumatic brain injury feels like. Literally parts of the brain spinning on independently for a while, trying to interpret random noise as their usual inputs, generating outputs that go nowhere and getting progressively desynchronized as they die. Like breaking a timing belt on a running car. As opposed to >80% of ways to die, which result directly or indirectly in brain hypoxia and a very well documented set of symptoms, or death by poisons which are each a different story depending on the substance and dosage. Only that in case of lobotomy that part of the brain is just hanging in there and can't die for the rest of the life of the patient.
I've read that the most recent lobotomy (the final one on record) was performed in 1967. There's a memoir, "My Lobotomy", from a man who suffered one as a child. It seems like results would vary, probably in line with the imprecise nature of the procedure- ranging from the extreme end (death of the victim) to mild (somewhat cognitively impaired but still able to live independently in society).
Yeah, I understand people thought this was an acceptable procedure, but the wild variety of results should've raised all the alarms. It's now understood that the data about successful procedures was manipulated to make it seem more effective than it really was.
That was the last recorded one in the US was 1967, but a Canadian doctor who died in the 90's wrote that he performed trans-orbital lobotomies occasionally until he retired in 1983. There is also documented use by militaries on interrogated subjects in foreign wars who needed to be kept quiet.
my grandmother was a nurse to a hospital who specialized in lobotomies. she has stories upon stories of how the patients were basically dead and numb after surgery, and its so heartbreaking...
You say this with 2020 hindsight, at the time this may have been the most effective treatment. Not the right one, but the best at the time. Perhaps in 50 years we will see chemotherapy as barbaric.
@@GabrielGabeRodriguez Chemotherapy IS barbaric, but it's a necessary evil. Hopefully one day there will be better options for treating cancer and other diseases chemo is used to treat.
Fact: The 1949 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to Dr. António Egas Moniz 🇵🇹 for his discovery of the theraputic value of lobotomy in certain psychoses.
One of the developers of the lobotomy received a Nobel Prize for the technique. He was shot by one of his patients after one such surgery, but survived wheelchair bound. One of Joseph Kennedy's daughters was said to have received a lobotomy because she was a rebellious teenager. Following the unsuccessful surgery, she spent the remainder of her life in a mental institution. There are numerous horror stories associated with lobotomies. One involved a prominent lobotomist that encountered one of his psychiatric patients in a hysterical state and being restrained by the police. He identified himself to the police as the man's psychiatrist and with police supervision, performed a lobotomy on the spot with an ice pick. Insane behavior by psychiatrists of the era, but true.
Rose had more wrong with her than just being a rebellious teenager. She had a learning disability and emotional difficulties of some sort. The Kennedys just wanted her out of the public eye.
I was given an illegal partial lobotomy at 13. My mother and stepfather wanted me to be a breeder like my mother. Before the backroom procedure I was elected to the student council, afterwards I had learning difficulties. I also suffered a severe infection and fever afterwards. I still refused to be a breeder , but was drugged and forced into prostitution all through my life. Another girl had the procedure and lost vision in one of her eyes. This really is an awful country when it comes to protecting children. The procedure was done on me 50 years ago. I have developed compartmentalized thinking and some days I don't remember all I've been through. There was the always the added threat of "them" killing my younger brother. I also had many ECTs , hundreds, and many head injuries,as my stepfather was a sexual sadist. If I could have remembered all I went through I would never have married and had my children, although I love them. I definitely would have never let them near my children, but I didn't remember what monsters they were. My son is still paying the price. Some of the most religious people you meet have evil secrets.
My grandmother died from an aggressive brain tumour in her prefrontal cortex. She was a completely different person in her final weeks - exactly how lobotomised patients are described. It wasn't much fun to watch, but at least she didn't die in distress. Her death didn't affect me as much as you might expect given how close we were, as I'd already grieved the loss of the grandma I had known by the time she died.
My great grandma used to work as a care nurse for a center for the mentally inferm, an asylum that unfortunately used lobotomy as a end all fix all for the more violent and "unfixable" folks. The change she said was heartbreaking the difference but also how it didn't allways turn out right. Some would be so subdued they were a vegetable while outhers were allmost the same. Its horrifying to think of doing blind brain surgeries an being at the mercy of sheer luck on weather or not you came out still a person.
After "Stand proud." opened up his domain, he said, "Are you "You're strong." because you are "I'm you." or are you "The one who left it all behind! And his overwhelming intensity!!" because "With this treasure I summon..."?" The Fingerer simply answered, "Nah, I'd win."
What’s most interesting to me is that the prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed until your 25, I’ve heard that somewhere before but it’s wild to think that something inside one of the most important organs isn’t fully developed inside myself yet and that it takes so long to fully develop, that is truly amazing
Maybe you should tell this [25 yr part] to those who want to cut boys Penises out.. or girls vaginal area w/double mastectomy's at ages 9-14.. without the parents knowledge. Its ALWAYS the same people.. the Left, the friken Libs who push this insanity!
@Samos900 Puberty driven changes in the brain don't stop until the mid-20s (24-26ish) in women and the late-20s (27-29ish) in men. Many people don't realize just how long puberty actually is because the earlier years are so dramatic, and the latter years are much less obvious.
@@Letyourcolorsblendwithmine but all the surrounding organs/regions are very sensitive: consider how you feel sharp pulsing pain in the head when you have a migraine for instance. Not to mention the surgeon would enter through the eye sockets...
@@tylerg7954A migraine is caused by the expansion of the blood vessels and the pressure it creates on your skull. That’s why it feels like pounding. Whenever the heart beats, it’s expanding those blood vessels.
The fact that this shit was a normalized procedure for a period is so disturbing and horrifying. Like, HOW does such an inhumane thing come to be accepted into the medical world?
Basically just mad ableism/sexism. Looking at mentally ill people as never having the right to autonomy in the first place. In less sinister cases, they probably thought regulating something like bipolar disorder in an adult with this was better than nothing. But I have no idea what patients were told they were getting if they consenting to this.
My first nursing job in 1982 was in a psychiatric hospital. One of my patients had been lobotomised in the 50s. I don't know who she was before, but afterwards she was barely anything at all. They also did electroconvulsant therapy (ECT or shock therapy). One of the RNs I worked with had terrible post natal depression and was treated there with ECT in the early 70s. She was absolutely a believer in it, though it had long fell out of use by the time I arrived, she believed it saved her life. ECT literally scrambles the brain's signals, which did make it useful in depression treatment before we actually had decent antidepressants..
This is nonsense. ECT is safe and a very effective treatment used worldwide for treatment resistant depression, catatonic depression, bipolar disorder, and even schizophrenia. It is not out of a horror movie and has been grossly misrepresented in pop culture. Maybe many years ago it was brutal but now it is controlled, safe, well studied, and extremely effective. Signed, a health professional who works in a large mental health service in a first world country.
Okay so my question being, did the ETC show signs of long term “scramble” or in other terms, would their brains be rewired for long periods of time? And how much was the procedure? In my opinion drugs only help when taken
@@giygaswashere2808 Haha, All good! 😊 I should've been more clear and added the correlation to the video in the comment. It does seem like a random, out of place comment. Haha.
Imagine the preferential cortex detached from everything, trying to rationalise why it is still alive when as far as it knows, everything else is dead. The ammount of fear and trauma you'd experience if it was ever reattached would probably be insane
one of the most monsterous parts of our history that will need to be remembered as we approach making brains we could forget about and not be able to shut off etc.
I highly recommend the film "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", released in 1975 and winner of the "Big 5" Academy Awards. It was adapted from the novel by Ken Kesey, written in 1959 and published in 1962. Though a work of fiction, Kesey wrote it based on his experiences as an orderly in a mental hospital where he witnessed the many, many horrors of psychiatric "treatment" of the times.
i have depression, and hearing that someone in the 50s could’ve just said “ok slicey time” scares me ayo WOW i didn’t want to start an argument in the comments. but people have different ways of coping with their depression. i personally go to therapy and take medication, and that may not work for everyone. drugs can help as well, when used in a good, healthy amount. and, i was diagnosed with moderate to severe depression in 8th grade and went to a mental institution to help me through it. don’t assume people’s backstories and what they’ve been through. thank you.
Was doing some research on lobotomies for a story and came across this video and it was straight to the point and super helpful. Thanks for a really good lesson on this topic...the lobotomy is such a messed up topic.
Imagine a traumatic accident you think is painless and instant but instead, the brain gets scrambled and you get to live through a different reality and experience something you never have before the brain dries out.
Can't help but wonder this, but what if these poor people who had undergone this procedure actually felt far more mental pain than what the studies back then could prove? I can't help but image that quite a few may have felt like they were trapped in their heads and unable to express themselves. Like what if they were made even more depressed and unstable and this procedure was just a selfish way of sorts to not have to worry about dealing with the actual problem? Let's just puncture here, severe this, and call him well .😢😭
Well that's what it was used for in a lot of cases Problematic patient in the mental asylum? Lobotomize him and you good a perfect patient that never gives you any trouble( since he won't do anything anymore ) They used it to make people easier to handle but they hardly helped anyone with it
My ex husband's mother was a psychiatrist, and her father was a psychiatrist who apparently worked on the research that would make lobotomies obsolete. He had been imprisoned in a POW camp in Russia around WW 2, and it may have made him have a lot more empathy than some other psychiatrists of that era.
@@thomashickey8121 yes, and it "appears" to help some people some time, but there are doctors, even brain specialist that are very much against it. The research being done now using psychedelics seems far more promising and far less risky, but due to these drugs foolishly being deemed schedule one the progress is slowed down, and then there is the problem for big pharma, on how to make a buck of it.
@@bipedalbob I take psycadelics all the time 😂. I dunno about big pharma at all. I know ect isn't what it use to be and is considered safe now and done in a controlled environment with low risks.
Couple of questions about this procedure: 1. Would there be a risk of the patient having tiny bone fragments stuck behind the eye? 2. Patients who have undergone a corpus callostomy (splitting the left and right hemispheres) often exhibit sort of a dual consciousness, having the left and right brain only be aware of the things they directly experience. One person on the outside, two distinct realities on the inside. Could it be reasonable to posit that a lobotomized person, whose prefrontal cortex is disengaged from the rest of the brain but still biologically active, may also experience some secondary consciousness that no longer receives or transmits data but still maintains some subjective experience? Like being in a sensory deprivation tank with no access to senses, memories, or emotions, all prefrontal, all the time.
I think these questions could be answered by looking at MRI's of lobotomized people. From what I've seen these parts of the brain dont appear to be active anymore
I'd imagine it depends on how the lobotomy is done and how the nerves react. In the early days of the lobotomy it was the nerves that connected the frontal cortex to the rest of the brain that were damaged (often with toxic chemicals like ethanol or a sharp instrument), they even did experiments to see what would happen if only some of the connections were damaged (the brain rewired itself after a while so the patient was mostly unaffected neurologically at least until they went back in and cut the rest, yay brain plasticity). It took a while to develop the ice pick and smush everything technique which was significantly more destructive, albeit quicker and easier for doctors without surgical training to learn (why were people without any surgical training allowed to do brain surgery 1900's!?). As the older more experimental lobotomies didn't damage the nerves of the frontal cortex or mess up the blood circulation too much I imagine the frontal cortex could conceivably do stuff if told to do so, that being said it doesn't have any input to react to. As Woo 911 suggested you'd need to look at MRI (or better yet fMRI) scans to get anything resembling an answer. The ice pick and smush everything technique however damaged the nerves (and by extension the capillaries) in the frontal cortex. As the nerves that make up the frontal cortex are dead or damaged beyond repair they aren't doing anything. They're dead.
Patient: "I don't know doc, Ive just been feeling a little sad lately." Doctor pulling out an ice pick and a mallet: "Would you say you're feeling, depressed?"
Rosemary Kennedy. An amazing personality, who chose to live life her own way, and who basically had her own personality erased. It’s beyond sick. It’s disgusting.
I hate anything that has to do with the insides or a cadaver, but you guys explain everything so well I almost want to get into medical school and learn to heal people. That’s what a great teacher does: they make a pupil love the subject matter taught. With that said, lobotomy is absolutely horrific. Ugh! I’m glad it is not practiced anymore. It’s definitely one of my nightmare: to lose myself like that :(
Eneeion I believe it was because she wasn’t a perfect “presidential-like” sister... which translates to basically they didn’t like the way she was because it might embarrass his president bro... I could be wrong tho
Eneeion they wanted a perfect family so they were afraid she would get pregnant or be sexually active before marriage it left her with the intelligence of a two year old it’s very fascinating but very sad
This always pissed me off as a kid. Essentially, killing you without the repercussions. Dead but still alive. Trapped in your own body. Horrifying. Seeing this in movies scared the shit out of me, and finding out it was a real procedure was horrible.
I always had the impression the prefrontal cortex was either scrambled and destroyed or vacuumed out. (Thanks, Hollywood.) But the idea that it's only the procedure of severing the connection raises a big question for me: if the prefrontal cortex is still there and functioning, do these people still have full awareness of themselves, but without any faculty to execute anything? Or is the self-awareness of those decisions and personality also severed? That's absolutely terrifying.
Seeing as in very severe cases people recess to a near-vegetated state, I don't think they're self-aware. There's basically three levels of consciousness; our lizard brain (which is your basic instincts and reflexes), your monkey brain (which basically does all the skill/memory/needs and more complex instincts like experimentation) and your human brain which is your highest form of consciousness and basically the voice you hear inside your head when you think. What a lobotomy does is basically sever the connection between your human and your monkey brain and the confusion and rage is likely your brain desperately trying to engage the prefrontal cortex which is no longer connected.
@@Thomogon I understand that. But self-awareness isn't relayed from the prefrontal cortex to some other area for interpretation. It's literally where self-awareness exists. So unless it's literally killed, self-awareness is still experience. Severing it from the other areas of the brain just means it no longer has the faculties to express that part of experience. However, you did point out something comforting. The lizard brain is basically the nervous system. So the concept of panic and the loss of self-awareness are also probably no longer connected, meaning people in this condition might be aware, but not in agony.
@@johnnybgoode8104 only ones I can specifically remember are Shutter Island and one season from American Horror Story. Just the impression I got from a bunch of vague and obviously inaccurate explanations was that it is a violent and barbaric procedure. The lobotomy is no longer performed, so I never concerned myself with the details.
I keep forgetting hes holding things that once had a heartbeat and a name... maybe if I donate my body to science, I'll finally feel the touch of another human being
@@1ztype343 read in a course i took, we learned that there is a culture where they did indeed believe the soul was in the head. Upon death, a family member had to crack skull open to “release” the soul. Don’t remember what culture it was though.
The lobotomy is one of those things that really, really unnerves me. I remember seeing references to it since I was a kid in the Simpsons for example, but didn't pay too much attention to it. I don't remember which was the instance that made me interested in doing some research about it a couple of years ago, but I know that since then I saw couple of movies (not saying titles to not spoil) in which the procedure is performed, and as it was about to happen it made me feel anxiety. This is the stuff of nightmares.
Another thing to note, is that most lobotomies were performed on women. And if you know a little bit about the history of mental health in regards to women, most women were deemed mentally ill by 1) not accepting their submissive gender role which was thought to lead to their depression, 2) hysteria - which can mean literally anything and has no distinct definition.
The doctor who was famous for these traveled around and bragged about doing them with both hands, through both eyes at the same time. This was an outpatient procedure. Mostly performed on the mentally ill and housewives. If you want an accurate picture of marriage at the time, many of those housewives themselves were genuinely grateful for having this done to them. They considered it a huge improvement on their lives. Just something to think about next time someone talks about how "good" those times were.
You are a propagandist. First, housewives were rich enough not to work. Second, given they were *grateful* , their "lobotomy" must have failed, because lobotomy patients don't comprehend gratitude. Have you considered that their opinion on it might have been valid? Have you considered that lobotomization was almost always used on violent people?
@@TurtleShroom3 your first point is irrelevant to anything I said. Your second belies a lack of understanding of the procedure. It doesn't turn you into a total robot, it just kills most of your agency. This is in line with how much drug use happened in housewives during that time. Opiates and alcohol were favorites. They were expected to obey, and they were stuck with men they often met as children, before they were fully developed enough to make good decisions. They felt trapped, they coped the best they could. This procedure was used on the violent, sure, but the real criteria would be the "inconvenient." People society didn't know how to handle. Again, this procedure fell out of favor at the same time as hysteria. You should look that "disease" up. It's mostly women being told that them having a personality or being unhappy is a sickness, "cured" by having a doctor finger her to orgasm. Repeat as necessary. They didn't know what they were doing, they just know that when you do this to uppity weirdos, they shut up. Today, we try to help these people instead of scrambling their brain into compliance
@@verager2493 Psychotropic drugs (except Ritalin) *did not exist* in those times. Thry DID NOT have the arsenal we do today. When a person is violent, or suicidal, or constantly lashing out, lobotomies were prescribed as an alternative to, you know, prison or leaving them be until they kiľľ someone or themselvęş. Which they would, untreated. Your anti-marriage propaganda is ridiculous, as I said, and moreover, EVEN THEN, marriages of underage people were unusual. My great-grandparents were sixteen and eighteen. Are you aware of the process for that? All four parents AND a court have to sign off on an union between a sixteen year old and an eighteen year old, so you are ignorant of the matter. Outsude of that,, which scopes for competenct, they were not "undeveloped children". They're not Muslims. I am sorry that you are so biased and hateful that you actually think that is what a marriage is. Housewives were almost always well off or rich (and still are), and all those women being "trapped" at home is a myth. It was not a trap unless the husband was abusive. It was a privilege. Yes, a privilege. I would go so far to say that a housewife's life was and is superior to the stresses and bosses of the workplace. A husband that is not abusive always seeks to act in his wife's interest, and vice-versa. Now mind you, I fundamentally believe in the right of women to seek a job, but children are almost ALWAYS enriched by the attention of their family like that. My aforementioned great-grandmother worked a full-time job her entire life. Every female descendant of hers did, too. Only one relative in my entire bloodline, my mother's mother's mother, was rich enough to be a housewife. > *haVInG A peRsOnalItY* Depression, constant panic attacks, and violence are not "having a personality". I don't know what feminist BS you have to gobble to think of marriage like THAT, but you are absolutely INSANE to think that all husbands are inherently abusive or that they WANT to lobotomize a person they love, KNOWING what it does to them. As for shutting them up, there is nothing wrong with pacifying violent people. The same goes with the suicidal if *every other option* is used. Lobotomy, either as a cure for spectuacular , sadisticviolence like pedophilia and bestiality (etc.), or as a means of pacification of people who are likely to kill, should STILL be an option today. In the right hands and the right circumstances, there is still a place for it. There are not many places, but still, a very few.
