3:30 -- "give that dragon the rat tail it wants, for some reason!" Me, a 90s kid who grew up in the South, pictures not a rat's actual tail, but rather the "rattail" hairstyle, which is basically a mullet with the back shaved down into one long narrow strip. On a dragon. Radical.
My friends and I made a similar connection when playing the game in the late 80s, joking about the dragon really wanting a clip-on rat's tail to wear. (Of course the logical explanation is that the item itself didn't matter, it was just confirmation that you could complete the trial. Having it be a random item that no one would normally guess only made the trial more secure.)
God that's exactly how I feel about it too. FFII has sooo many good or at least interesting ideas in story, art, mechanics, etc, especially compared to FFI, it's just... god it sucks so bad to play. I love it but I'm never playing it again
Quest for Glory did the whole "stat progression by doing stuff" thing better. It also had traditional (combat and puzzle-based) experience points, that influenced how long stat levelling took. I think it was Sierra's adventure RPG quintilogy over Squaresoft's abortive attempt that inspired The Elder Scrolls to switch to a similar system starting with Daggerfall.
Of all the Final Fantasy games, FFII needs a full-blown re-imagining the most. The world is cool. The music is alright. The characters are... okay. The combat is atrocious. The dungeons are indefensible. There are some interesting pieces there that just need better pieces to go with them, and then maybe a new generation of fans can enjoy the idea the game represented.
I would highly recommend givng the FF2 Pixel Remaster a try, especially if you've never experienced FF2j. While you can still do the old tried-and-true "beat up your own party to raise your stats" trick, there are a few nice QoL changes that make the game easier to complete overall. The rearranged OST is also amazing.
Blocking! I never realized that's what was happening with all these old games; I've always loved the simple way emotion and action were conveyed through simple sprites, and I would do the same thing all the time while playing with Legos as a kid. Thanks for helping me make that connection!
@@Healermain15 but until you have it pegged down walking through set is impossible. Blocking is a fundamental brick in the foundation of any ...OK I can't think of a pun to finish with.
"It's a real shame that the games not fun" Yup, those are my thoughts on FFII; an important and major step forward for the series, but not a fun game in the slightest XD
Yeah. I've only played it on the PSX (FF Origins version) and among some of the things I remember clearly -- 1, it is possible to circumnavigate the world map on foot (but enemy level varies) -- 2, I remember running afoul of a wild monster party using Muddle spells which (relative to my level/stats at the time) were effectively 100% accurate. I could do nothing but watch them cut each other down....
@@Stratelier I don't know, i tend to meet overleveled monsters in all the original trilogy... FFIII being maybe the worst. The fact that one can be taken care of and not the other is strange to me since everyone is telling FFII is broken or something. ( Which it's not really... )
I felt this way about III as well. I mean, it was SUPER ambitious, and I admire it so much. But good GOD is it difficult and tedious. Most of the bosses are easy but the ones that aren't are some of the hardest I've ever faced
@@Valientlink As I was playing through the Pixel Remasters, I was thinking that III would be my favorite of the original three. And it is... until Cloud of Darkness. Good lord is that fight atrocious. Great game otherwise, the final boss is just horrible
What excites me the most about this series is not the progression from 1 to 16, but from 1 to 3, from 4 to 6, from 7 to 9, etc. - how much they improved within a single console. Really enjoying this so far!
And then that dramatic narrative is totally undercut when your party then spends hours hitting each other because it's the easiest way to level up weapons and defense . . .
@@OhNoTheFace Yeah, but in this case it was more of a "It isn't fun, and the grind is so tedious that it's more fun to do this optimized form that still removes fun from the game."
This is such an incredible jump. Seeing that first cutscene with Minwu turning to look back before leaving, and realising this is the same technique used almost 30 years later in 3DS RPGs really makes you realise how big an effect it had on storytelling in games.
I loved it for the story and characters back in the day, and for a long time I’ve wanted to go back through it again, but I don’t think I have the patience to deal with it anymore these days. Shame.
You know there is the Pixel Remaster version which made stat gains faster to acquire and weapon and magic level really fast. So fast that it looks like they capped the leven allowing yoh learn 2 or 3 types of weapons. One good and bad thing about the Pixel Remasters is they they are easy on the grinding cutting it in half
Yeah, in this case I was referring to getting back to talking about that story scene! I actually did mention Leon more in the original draft of this script, but it got into spoilers and wasn't super relevant to the animation anyway, so I ended up cutting it. :P
@@NewFramePlus I would say it isn't quite as fair to lump him into the rest of the main party when mentioning how thinly they're drawn, since he does get at least _something_ from the time he spends as an NPC. He's the first Darth Vader in a franchise that loves making new Darth Vaders!
When I look at the way FF2 does blocking I immediately understand how crutial that is to animating even modern day JRPGs. Xenoblade Chronicles, Fire Emblem Three Houses, SMT, Tales of Games... even Yakuza have these reused "general" animations and very little facial animation variety and try to use shot framing and character possition to make up for this. Compared to the more linear story character action games like Devil May Cry, Bayoneta, Astral Chain, Metal Gear Solid. Those games spend so much more time on naturalistic bespoke acting, even in in-game cutscenes. I can't help but see that signature cost-saving approach all the timewhen watching the in-game cutscenes of modern JRPGs and wonder how much this is the origin of that practice. The weird part now is that it feels a lot more awkward as the abstraction of pixelated top-down models no longer has the benefit leaving the rest of the acting to the imagination. It feels drastically different than the way Bethesda and BioWare games handle their in-game animations (although there are still re-used animation yet them seem better hidden). I used to think that had something to do with western culture and our preferences when it comes to relaying visual language, but now I'm wondering if that seperate legacy has to do moreso with the technology that games like Ultima came from.
I forgot to mention FF7 Remake and to some extend FFXV (and 13) have become the exception to the rule however other franchises haven't quite caught up yet. Remake had the benefit of being fairly scaled-down in scope for a JRPG.
FFXIV started with some top notch cutscenes that used to fry PCs around the world by how much computational power it used (but it DID looked good, even by today's standard), and after the ARR re-launch, all cutscenes are now just character models doing standard emotes in the game (or emotes that later got added to the game). Even the most emotional moments of the story are all delivered using standard animations!
Limitations breed creativity. If you have no limitations you actually get stuff looking more and more samey. Why would you take risks that you don't have to or put in more effort? The NES was a little too limited I feel but I think the 4th and 6th generations were the most creative of all. 4th for 2D and 6th for 3D. When there were limitations but if you put effort and some ingenuity into something you could do almost anything.
@@Cute___E 1.0 used a lot of custom animation, including motion capture. So it ran more fluidly than normal. Current FFXIV make some amazing cutscenes, but it's rare to see custom animations. Most of the time is câmera, light/shadows and basic emotes. They are machinima, but very good machinima. IMO, it surpassed the previous high budget cutscenes from Shadowbringers onwards. 1.0 was throwing money at something and expecting it to be good.
Yeah, FF2 is kind of the black sheep of the series. It attempted to implement a "use it to level it up" gameplay style. Attack to level ATK. Get hit to level DEF. Etc. Unfortunately, it's all kinds of broken. Among other things, it's extremely easy to over-specialize, and incredibly, the most effective way of leveling up basic stats is to have your party attack *each other.* Oh, and it also implemented enemy level scaling to match player level, and we know how well THAT tends to work out. The head designer was actually the same guy (Akitoshi Kawazu) who'd go on to make the SaGa series, and FF2 really feels more like SaGa Zero rather than feeling like a Final Fantasy game. OTOH, if you like the SaGa games, you might want to play it based on that. Although I'd recommend playing one of the later remakes, which fix some of the more overtly terrible design elements.
Quest for Glory did it better - owing to being as much an adventure series as an RPG one. If Firion wants to bulk up and gain more hit points, Maria has to shoot him. If Devon wants to bulk up, he can run him, climb, throw rocks, use exercise equipment, exhaust his stamina and start losing health that way... oh, and also fight.
@@KopperNeoman Yay! Someone else who remembers the QFG games. They were SO good. And they hold up surprisingly well - they're easily some of the most player-friendly games Sierra ever published. It's the one classic Sierra franchise I'll still recommend without much reservation or apology. There's never been an adventure/ARPG blend quite like them.
Also on the Sa•Ga part. If anyone ever wanted to play the first SNES Sa•Ga game, well... Better off playing the remake. On a gameplay (and sanity) stand point. The original SNES version was totally fun! ...if people liked hidden mechanics, long time-sinking gameplay, and brutal RNG. But if anyone want to keep their sanity, play the remake. But hey, that first SNES Sa•Ga at least gave people large dungeons, character choice and skill choices, and a bunch of other stuff like multiple endings, branching paths, and so forth. For gaming history, that first SNES Sa•Ga is worth a look.
The thing I love about new frame plus is that Dan doesn't just focus on the animation, but also talks about the story and the emotions of the characters. He gives an explanation on how the story if important, why it could be good or bad. And I love this channel because of that.
Amazing work again! I love the attention to detail in how storytelling techniques have evolved. You really were selling me on this game until "it's a shame the game is not fun" LOL Wonderful work!
I’d argue that it’s still worth playing, at least for a little bit, if you have the opportunity. The major failing of the game was one of those “Good on paper, but…” kinds of ideas with combat. Instead of bulk stat increases per level like the first, you would upgrade different stats by use. So, the more Firion attacked with swords, the better he got with them. The Skyrim technique, but 30 years early. However, this style combined with the option for party members to deliberately attack each other meant stuff got broken FAST. Just start a battle in an area that’s a low threat, take out all but one mob, and then spend the rest of the battle with the party members fighting each other. Getting reduced to very low HP results in HP increase, all the attacking increases skills with those weapons, magic skills start going through the roof….yeah, you could munchkin the FUUUUUCK out of all the characters.
I would not play the original but the remake for the Game Boy Advance was tons of fun. It still may not be as fun but I really enjoyed it and would recommend playing it.
The "walk-in and walk out" bit for the start and end of battles is such a good touch and it's one of my favorite little things about FF2. Beyond that, it's honestly amazing to see such a big leap in the narrative ambition immediately following the first game. The Famicom version is definitely pretty hard to get into though. Thankfully pretty much every versions to come after the Famicom original fixed a lot of the issues with the balance of the progression system (and a lot of annoying bugs).
This is so cool, I never would've thought that blocking 1) wasn't even implemented in the first game and 2) made such a big difference! If the goal of animation is, as you've said, to create appealing character performances, then blocking is absolutely a huge part of that even though it doesn't actually involve extra sprite work or drawing. Thanks for another awesome video!
Looking at FF2 just makes the production limitations of FF1 stand out _so_ much more clearly. I guess because they're the only limitations that FF2 lifted?
@@timothymclean I think it's also maybe because it's a very clear example of iteration? We now know how things can be done better, so it's weird to see something from earlier on in the design process so to speak.
Hey, Dan! I just wanna say I've been following you since you were this cute character with green clothes and a high-pitched voice To this day, whenever I see a new video I know I'm in for a good time. Can't thank you enough for all the good times you provided and everything I learned. Keep up the good work! :D
It hasn't been two months and the second one's already out? Awesome! I doubt Dan can keep up the pace of 7-8 weeks per Final Fantasy animation video, but it would be cool if I was wrong.
I want to keep up a pace of AT LEAST one video every 2 months if I can! Granted, episode length is going to start increasing as each game gives us more and more to talk about, but I'm gonna do my best haha
I'm now left wondering how the Final Fantasy franchise would have played out if they *had* made FF2 a direct sequel. Something tells me that constraining it to that wouldn't have gotten it nearly as far as making (almost) every entry its own entity.
There wasn't really a way to make a direct sequel to FF1, its story ended and its characters were not actually characters. FF3 is basically the closest thing you could get to a sequel to FF1.
I mean, Dragon Quest II went the direct sequel route and it still worked out pretty well for that franchise in terms of making every game its own thing.
There's definitely something to a franchise that always has familiar elements but has self contained stories. You can jump in just, whenever, and if you didn't like what you played, guess what: there's a good chance one of the other entries might suit you instead.
I'm not a fan of FF so I don't know if this has already happened but a full on remake would be cool. Something like what happened with Fire Emblem 2 being completely remade into Echoes Shadows of Valentia.
@@MrMarinus18 The closest thing we got was making the 8-bit games 16-bit on PS1 and GBA, which have then been ported to PSP, PC, mobile, etc. Although, they’re working on a complete reimagining of the first game with Final Fantasy Origins, the game infamous for its “I’m going to kill Chaos!” meme
I love how the second clip of Hironobu Sakaguchi, and of the video, is ProZD's video where he buys off Sakaguchi to say that 9 was the best in the series.
Beautiful essay, Dan. Thank you for this explanation of the virtues of blocking. Looking so closely at Firion's awakening scene honestly got me choked up thinking about the beauty and value of theatrical fundamentals
We're only two episodes into this series, and it's already my favourite thing on the channel already, and I love your work in general. It's just really cool to see these genuinely significant but still easy to miss improvements from one title to the next explained so clearly and concisely.
Yes! It's here! I really appreciate how you went into how things beyond just the sprite sheet are an important part of animation. Your insights here will help me as I work on my game in RPG Maker MV, which uses similarly limited sprite sheets for characters out of combat. Of particular note was the usefulness of varying move speeds for wandering NPCs conveying a sense of age or wellbeing. Thanks for another great episode! I look forward to the next one. :)
I was beginning to get hyped for this game again! until... 15:03 Really didn't expected that plot twist at the end lmao Real story is that FF2 is the Final Fantasy game I had the least fun playing, but I still wanted to finish it since I was so close to the end of the game, too bad my save was corrupted right before the last 2 dungeons, because now I don't want to play all that again, SPECIALLY after that callout lol
I really appreciate how much work goes into just the smallest elements of telling a narrative, like having a sprite stop moving, turn around for a few seconds before walking out, and how much that small action can convey. Some of the best, most emotionally powerful sprite-based games today still use some of these same techniques you point out here in Final Fantasy 2. I am SUPER looking forward to your take on FF3, and I hope you at least cover a bit of the 3DS remake of it. (Helps that one IS actually fun!)
I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate this, and how it helped articulate things I subconsciously felt despite agreeing with people complaining about how the game wasn’t fun. It is nice that you are able to separate how the good ideas it has without losing them in how not fun the game was, and it’s helped me to do the same.
Me, watching the entire video: "Huh, I guess I never noticed all of those amazing details, it´s pretty neat, despite the fact that this game kinda blows" Dan: "It´s a shame the game isn´t very fun". Me: "Ah. Right on!" To be fair, I never played FF1 and I played this after IV and VI, so there´s that to consider.
I started with Final Fantasy X, I played Final Fantasy I on the Origins double pack and enjoyed it. I immediately moved on to Final Fantasy II in that same double pack, and it was a misery. You don't need better games to compare it to to feel how much it sucks.
I started with Final Fantasy 2 on GBA, because FF1 on the same cartridge had its save slots full. After beating that, I did go through FF1 (one of the saves had near-zero progress.) ... I liked 2 more, lol. (... but FF8 is my current favorite.)
The main problem with 2 as I understand it is just that it has a very clunky system for experience. (You gain HP by whacking your own party members!) Compared to the usual standard for the series, it feels unintuitive and rather annoying. So I think it's somewhat fair to say that it only sucks by comparison?
@@scrabblehandforaname It's not just the unorthodox leveling mechanics, it's also the time-wasting level design full of Doors To Nowhere. It's not a fun game to play, even without better games to compare it to.
@@scrabblehandforaname Somehow, I made it through the whole game without doing the hit-yourself-to-get-stronger thing. Not nearly as much of an issue as the magic levelling system... I'm starting to think that the exploit is only more commonly cited because it's funnier.
11:06 A little detail I'm surprised you didn't mention was that Firion's own movement in the intro has variable speed too, like the NPCs are capable of. He walks slowly for the first few tiles, then picks up the pace. That too adds to character performance.
I always sort of interpreted that final Garland scene, with him teleporting back so he could do his whole monologue, as that he was reciting this speech while we, as a party, were constantly moving forward brandishing our weapons already ready to fight. And he's just stepping back and stepping back and then PRANKED, he's Chaos. It's a cool mental association born out of limitation.
"[the slow backwards retreat] is probably the funniest animation in 8 bit final fantasy" I raise you the Mini scuttle on the victory walk-off-screen which travels about half as fast as your non-mini'd heroes but animates about 10 times faster. It's my favourite
This was just fascinating - I played these games back in late middle school on the ps 1 collection and I remember feeling these games were shockingly different, it’s fun coming back all these years later and seeing why that was
This animation breakdown is so fun and educational! I really hope you do a breakdown of the animations for other 2D sprite games like Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger.
What I'm really taking away from the video is that HOW you use the art and assets you got at your disposal can really make a big difference! Limitations can sometimes really offer great new ideas or stepping stones
I want these thumbnails as wallpapers! Amazing video as always, I love FF and your animation analysis style, especially these overlooked old and simple games (regarding animation prowess at least).
I've never played this game before and I've never seen that first cutscene in my life, but I _knew_ Minwu was going to pause, look back at you for a moment in silence, and then leave. 2D Final Fantasy games _loved_ that move.
I found the last line "It's a real shame the game isn't very fun" highly amusing, because I felt that way too (having only played Dawn of Souls). Then, having grabbed the pixel remaster bundle to share some of my favorite games with my wife, I decided to give FFII another shot. Turns out, I'm actually really enjoying it (not having to beat up your own units helps, but that was also a thing in Dawn of Souls)
Fascinating to see the breakdown of how much even simple motions can do for storytelling. Excellent video, and looking forward to seeing the rest of the series.
I got chills just remembering the story beats of FF2. It’s shockingly well realized story and characters are wildly engaging, and I did not play this game until earlier this year. The gameplay systems are also brilliant and underrated, but that’s a conversation for a different video’s comment section.
anyone who played this title knew 15:03 was coming LOL thank god they never brought that tibiaesq skill system again... at least not in the same way they did here
Though they didn't use the same system, I think Final Fantasy VIII manages to be very grind heavy and boring, with you needing to draw magic from enemies to increase your stats
@@timothymclean I mean, it's fundamentally what the Elder Scrolls games do, and other games influenced by their leveling (like Kingdom Come Deliverance, Bannerlord, etc). It's just "do more of X to improve your X skill". But FF2 was an early attempt at it, and failed to iron out the kinks. So there's a lot of imbalance there that makes it not work well in this particular game.
This might be one of my favorite episodes yet. Showing how the FFII team pushed their limits not by adding art resources but by adding new ways to use the existing resources to tell a story was great!
The talk about blocking brain blasted me back to Mario Tennis GBA & Golden Sun. Those games managed to pour infinite life into completely emotionally neutral walk sprites! And their approach starts the same way - without any facial expressions to speak of, it's all movement, a side of subtle sprite-warping animations, and some general-use but very expressive speech bubble smileys on top. A lot of mileage out of very little.
Great video, as always y'all. You've got me so excited now because FF3 was my introduction to 8-bit Final Fantasy and I continue to love it to this day.
I never played the older versions of this, but I loved it in the Dawn of Souls collection on the GBA. FF1 and 2 were the first two FF games I ever beat back in the day! I’ll always have a soft spot for FF2.
Great video. Was a bit worried it was gonna be too similar to the FF1 video, but you angled it so it wasn't an issue at all. It was just an informative and interesting video, celebrating these old animations. Looking forwards to the rest!
The game is VERY fun, I love feeling my characters evolve in real time. Sure, one of the main glitches locks you into making Firion a white mage + fighter, but everything else is pretty much functional. It made me feel so powerful when I had successfully leveled up certain spells; it meant I could progress where I couldn't before. No other FF has attempted that Castlevania/Zelda-like type of progression (it's always locked behind a linear series of quests, not a branching set of gameplay choices).
I guess one great way of thinking about this approach to theatrical performance in early video games is to consider how stage plays remain just as easy to parse from the back of the upper balcony of a large theater: large things like positioning and overall posing in a broad sense can be used to a considerable effect, and I suspect it is the same for this. I think watching that cutscene from the start of ff2, it is a bit hard to tell that firion is lying down and not standing, but that would have required either a new pose or using the far less situation-appropriate "faceplant" pose that signifies a downed party member
I believe there was also a novelization to further flesh out the plot and characters. Just goes to show how passionate they were about the storytelling here.
I tried so hard with II with the Pixel Remasters, that had all these quality of life improvements. The game's leveling system makes it basically unplayable when you're so used to what the series has become. But I loved the look and feel of it!
I love this series. These games are often overlooked due to age but the way you convey how they worked with limitations is such a great lens into the time these games were from. I can't wait for Final Fantasy VII, which I'm sure will be a huge undertaking. Will you be talking about the 3D remakes of 3 and 4 by any chance as well?
Give it a shot, you might enjoy it. The problem is that it tried to implement some new gameplay elements that sound good on paper but really didn't work that well in practice (it followed the "use X more to lvl X up" format instead of traditional level ups, but that made the game just even more grindheavy, increadibly easy to accidentally overspecialize and led to the most efficient ways to become stronger beeing rather counterintuitive and immersion breaking (have your party attack each other to level up their offense and deffense at the same time) later rpgs and jrpgs would implement a system like this in a more balanced way, but here it was really broken and weird) If you do wanna give it a shot, I'd say check out one of the remastered versions. They may not have the exact same retro charm as "playing a 33 year old nes game" but they do improve on the gameplay somewhat and allow you to enjoy the games story a bit better
