The "Anime-ification" of JRPGs 

In the context of JRPGs, I think the term "anime" refers to tropes that most Western audiences don't like, such as pervert characters, repetitive gag humour, panty shots, moe, high pitched clingy little sisters, power of friendship, etc.

it's almost like jrpgs have always been anime. Look at the original jrpg...Dragon Quest. Same graphics designer as Dragonball.

Can't watch the video due to Xenogears spoilers but JRPGs have always been anime. It's just that the style of anime popular at the time is going to be generally more prevalent. 90s anime has a very different look to 2000s anime, which has a different look to modern anime. You can go back and see how the medium evolved over time, what became popular, etc. That's why this argument kinda irks me. Maybe it's just a nitpick, but JRPGs were always anime. It's not JRPGs that have been "anime-fied", it's anime itself that changed over time.

xenoblade 1 and xenoblade 2 fans arguing about their favorite xenoblade with unheatlhy hate and dumb arguments xenoblade X fans : "hello? is this thing on? Am I all alone? is anyone there? I need a bigger gun. "

"SMT has always been anime." Hit the nail right on the head with that one.

Thank you for this ! Really good video. It's what I keep saying in my head everytime someone says "it's too anime !", it's so dumb for an actual argument.

One criticism that drives me up a wall because it sounds like nothing is saying sexual outfits are "impractical". Practicality is not a concept that comes to mind when I think about modern fashion, only what looks good according to the masses. Take crocs, for example. I *love* crocs for their versatility- they're great for relaxing at home, great for going to the beach, great for jogging, are waterproof and they even have a winter variant that comes with nice, smooth wool on the inside. Crocs are what comes to mind when I want to wear practical footwear. Except instead of being seen as these incredibly practical footwear, they're bashed for supposedly being ugly. As for the sandal models that people insist are superior? Constantly scratching the back of my foot, even causing bruises when I wear them for too long. Seriously, my language's own version of "No pain, no gain" roughly translates to "To show off, you must suffer"! And don't even get me started on how boutiques refuse to do business with you if you don't look fancy enough. So no, I refuse to acknowledge any criticism of an outfit being impractical unless the person explains themselves because from my point of view, most fashionable or formal wear isn't comfortable enough for me to consider practical either.

Spoiler for XC2 Mythra doesn't show less skin than Pyra, they are showing skin at different location of their bodies, symbolizing the incompleteness of both, see how Pneuma, who is both in control at the same time, is fully covered.

I just wish we got more JRPGS nowadays that didnt fit the “Popular and Digestible Anime” aesthetic. The reason I like the old SMT games so much is because there was a very almost uncanny visual style that we simply arent getting anymore. We have so many ways to convey what we want to and its disappointing that most games nowadays simply move towards one sort-of all encompassing style instead of getting as weird as they used to

The meaning of anime is “Japanese animation” so yeah we all are over thinking this as a whole not just about smt but with anime in general. But at the end of the day we enjoy all these games and anime.

Xenoblade 2 fan here. While I personally disagree with a few points you made about 2, I still think you did a great job addressing the game's flaws. It's refreshing to see someone give actual criticisms about the game instead of just "anime". Also, great video.

i agree, but also i just think "it's too anime" is a stupid complaint anyway. It's a Japanese product what'd they expect? Also, XB2 being """more anime""" honestly makes me want to play it more. i just gotta remember where i was in XB1 and finish that game first cuz it's been a LONG while since i last played it lol. Update: Since I made this comment i've finished XC1, XC2 and XC3 and i gotta say, my point still stands. The anime bullshit in XC2 just, felt really nice. Even that scene with Mythra everyone hates so much is fine to me cuz it played out differently than the trope normally goes. Ig i just have a higher tolerance for it, or cuz i actually like it, but i just can never see something being "too anime" bothering me.

i cannot believe that a japanese company is making their games similar to anime!!

The problem I have with your 4A complaint is that the characters were always just archetypes meant to move the story along. One character will always choose Law; one character will always choose Chaos. Contrast that with Triangle Strategy where despite their alignments highlighting their base personalities, they never become confined to those alignments.

Considering Enix hired Akira Toriyama as a character and monster designer for Dragon Quest 1 and the DQ series is a huge inspiration for JRPGs, manga and light novels, I'd say that the two were always bound together and the only reason people don't notice is because back then the more mainstream ones used different tropes.

SPOILERS FOR XENOBLADE 2 11:43 Yes the designs are meant to complete each other, Pyra covers her shoulders Mythra doesn't, Pyra covers her legs, Mythra doesn't, Pyra doesn't cover up her arms, Mythra does. You can also see this in their final form where where they 'fuse'. There isn't any kind of body exposure left when they go into that form because they are complete 13:57 unlike most anime though Pyra actually apologizes for what Mythra did and even Mythra is angry at herself for doing that and comparing it with shonen is going to far I think, there aren't nearly as many sexual moments in this 70 hour game

This remembers me when Nintendo fans complain about "anime games" (Xenoblade or Fire Emblem) because they stole the spotlight from Zelda, Mario and Metroid when those ARE ALSO ANIME INFLUENCED GAMES 🤦‍♂️

It's almost like they're made by a Japanese company

Correction: Fei and Elly have sex on the Yggdrasil, not in her home Also, Pyra and Mythra’s designs are perfectly fine for what they’re supposed to convey. Pyra’s designed to look like a sci fi princess from 80s (and her design isn’t any more titillating than KOS-MOS is) while Mythra’s designed to look like a biblical archangel (tho a wingless one)

I hate xenoblade 2 twitter. The whole community is overshadowed by like 6 accounts who think their opinions are facts and everyone else is wrong

Yeah, it's really different to everybody and the adjective means drastically different things depending on prior experience. I judge something being anime on an "I know it when I see it" basis.

I do agree with most of your points in the video. It's undeniable that many japanese games, not even limited to JRPGs, draw heavy inspiration from anime, and have always done so. But anime as a medium has changed, and so have the games. That said I don't agree with your points about XC2 much. SPOILERS FOR XC2 Now, I'm not gonna deny that the game has a good amount of fanservice. I do believe it's often exaggerated how much there is, but that hardly matters here. I don't have issue with people disliking that aspect, as it's a matter of personal taste. That said, Pyra isn't really supposed to be the 'modest' one. Yes, she is generally more gentle and motherly than Mythra, but I don't see how that relates to modesty specifically. The game took a more fanservicey approach to their design, and again that's down to personal taste. The designs don't really show the character's personality, but moreso their growth and struggle. Pyra and Mythra's designs are complementary: where one shows skin, the other is usually covered (Pyra has exposed arms, Mythra's are covered, Pyra's legs are covered and Mythra's exposed), as a reflection of them being two halves of one whole. Pyra's design also presents elements of asymmetry, while Mythra's is symmetrical (except for the band on her leg), which symbolizes that Pyra's powers are more restrained, and fearing their own power is another aspect of the character. Lastly we have Pneuma, which is completely covered, which of course, represents the two becoming 'whole'. So the design absolutely tells you somthing about the character, even if it isn't strictly about their personality. Similar thing with Nia: her Driver design completely covers her, even having a hood, representing all the fears she represses, while her Blade design is the polar opposite, as she finally overcomes her fear. I've also never agreed much that the silly fanservice scenes detract from the game's tone. The game's tone isn't supposed to be dark or even that serious overall for that matter. In a game whose one of the main themes is taking the good with the bad, moments of levity like that make perfect sense. Yes, they can be very silly and I understand many people find the tropes used annoying, and that's fine. But they don't detract from the tone: they are part of the intended one. Here it might also be the difference from 'western' and japanese sensibilities at play. Lastly, while there are a few moments where the camera is definitely placed weird, I think it's mostly the outfits that make it seem so, and not the other way around. Like the scene you mentioned about Haze's Core Csrystal: if Mythra didn't have her cleavege showing, I doubt anyone would have said anything. I don't think the camera was specifically placed there with fanservice in mind.

The easiest way I internalized this, and also what inspired me to research, is that the Essence of Shin Megami Tensei is Macabre Esoterica, and it drives heavily from Japan's Occult Boom which influenced a highly specific style of animation / film / literature of its time; The Demon Hunting. Ghosts, Psychics, modern Sorcerers, demons in disguise, mystic swordsmen. Things you would find in works like Demon City Shinjuku, Ninja Scroll, Wicked City, Vampire Hunter D; etc. As well as countless manga and novels INCLUDING the original SMT novel, where the idea of demon summoning achievable through computer technology, which felt revolutionary and terrifying at the time, gave early SMT that dreadful essence. It also always felt more interested in exploring Philosophical doubts spawn from the focus on Demons and Deities from different mythologies, while the more Anime style of trope based writing feels less bloody and Esoteric, as I asume it could put off the general audiences not as interested in that kind of aesthetic. But I don't feel comfortable saying the Animefication of RPGs is ENTIRELY driven by commercial purposes and marketability. While a huge part of it, because sales do not lie and they reflect the sensitivities of the world at large. Esoteric writing, occult knowledge, demons from strange mythologies; these things I assume have to be presented in a way that is easy to understand and process for general audiences, which betrays the core essence esoterica and the occult.

I sometimes wonder if there is a video that exists where someone has a problems with Xenoblade 2 and they never mention anything about sex stuff. It seems nigh impossible. Any fanservice in that game is mostly relegated to the designs, as I can count the fanservice scenes on less than 5 fingers. And idk, I guess I just can’t subscribe to the idea of harping on something so much mostly because of its designs. After my initial viewing of them, I never let it color my view again. Like, that’s just their designs. I think it’s more up to you if it’s insulting or not. Like, I see Mythra doing the diamond shape with her fingers, and I don’t go “Boob!? Come on! I’m too mature for that!” I see that her boobs are in frame, but that’s not what they’re talking about, or what the scenes about, so I don’t pay it any mind. It’s just her chest. The more we act like these are things that have to always be hidden away, the more it’ll annoy you, even if the game itself doesn’t care about it.

I think if it’s an animation that came from Japan it’s anime.

If you're going to play any game from Japan expect some anime ailments because well it's Japanese animation in the first place the whole damn game.

i disagree with characters needing to match their outift with their personality because my god what a dull boring world that would be

Honestly, most of the stuff in XBC2 doesn't bother me all that much, and I really dislike sexual shit in my games. There are a handful of cases where it's just... *there* (Specifically Rex waking up with Pyra near the start and the infamous Mythra scene (Which should have just been dropped from the game outright cause it gives people a bad first impression of Mythra's character)), but there are also a lot of cases where it's not there for absolutely no reason (The one hot spring scene in particular. It foreshadows events later on in the game, letting a small handful of characters know something big about a character that the player and the other portion of the group aren't privy to). Idk, I just kinda feel that XBC2's stuff isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. It not bugging me says a lot. Lol.

Anybody who ever complains about anime in jrps without expounding on the actual flaw being discussed should be metaphorically slapped hard across the face with dragon quest 1

I appreciate you bringing up the original DDS novel. You absolutely cannot separate it, nor the game series it spawned from the Occult Boom of the 70's, 80's & 90's at the time which inspired a lot of Japanese media at the time, anime included. The original book was schlock-y J-Horror genre fiction at its core, and that's what the aesthetics of anime at the time were.

Funny thing is that I understand a lot of this criticism because of my experiences with Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth and Hacker's Memory, but I never complained about Hacker's Memory being too anime, since the first game also had a lot of anime tropes (Nokia and Kyoko were showing A LOT of skin, for instance). My problem with that game is that it depends too much on tropes, like Erika being a tsundere and Chitose being a perv, to keep its story going

"Don't just argue that it's bad because it's anime. Explain what you don't like about it." Okay so problem with that: my instinctual reaction to that was "It used to be the good anime, but now it's the bad anime." which is just another non-explanation of what I don't like about it. Now I could get more specific with what I mean by good and bad anime, but that's besides the point: humans prefer to communicate efficiently, and will often use one word to convey a very complex idea, even when it compromises accuracy a bit. You knew that by "anime" people meant "modern fanservice waifu harem bullshit", so even if they were using the term inaccurately, why would they change their terminology when they're still effectively communicating? I think the better way to go about this is not to try to correct them on what "anime" means, but to ask a question that would naturally prompt them to explain what they mean by "anime". For instance: "I hate Xenoblade 2, it's too anime." "Like Devilman anime or Sailor Moon anime?" "No I mean......"

Heck, I even consider Dark Souls a JRPG, something that people usually don't, and the anime influence is undeniable in that game. Also as a person that absolutely adore XB2 I won't bash you or criticize you, but I find it incredibly hilarious when people say they dislike the "fanservice" on the game, as someone that plays a lot of ecchi and actually fan service games like Senran Kagura or Neptunia, XB2 is waaaaaay too tame in comparison. It's like babie's first ecchi or something, and aside from one voluptuous blade and Pyra and Mythra showing some skin, that is something that I would NOT call fanservice, at all, so yeah, not a valid complain in my eyes. I actually love their design and the philosophy behind them, it's just a little bit sexy and that's NOT a bad thing for me. Also, I think the scenes that are supposed to be funny are actually funny, they make me smile, un ironically. Tora being a pervert and Mythra sleeo walking into Rex's bed are hilarious, and Mythra doing the core crystal shape on her boob window? not a bad thing at all. Xenoblade 2 was never supposed to surprass any game, you said it had to surprass Xenogears or something. what do you mean like that? Xenoblade is supposed to be a boy meets girl story, of course there is going to be a lot of awkward moments. That reminds me of people that criticizes FFX's laughing scene, when it's supposed to feel awkward.

I think Japan's media has always been inspired by anime. Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei are very close in theme in not story to one of the most popular dark anime movies Akira, and yet no one complains about the similarities there. I think it's mostly a case of "Old man yells at cloud" where we don't like where the media that is being produced these days is going and want a return to "The Good Old Days." There are certain games that feel too... wacky? for me to properly enjoy. I don't tell people that they can't enjoy them, I just choose to not engage with that game. If less people took the time to bash what they didn't like and instead chose to accept that others find things they like might differ I feel like we'd be a bit closer to world peace. To quote my 2nd favourite talking cat: "We do have a lot in common. The same Earth, the same air, the same sky. Maybe if we started looking at what's the same instead of what's different... well, who knows."

This is an amazing video that analyzes it all and a great view on the subject. I think everyone who says "it became anime" is just going for the art style. Severely overlooking all the proper influences and changes in the team like you said. I would like to see more unique art styles and something like FF was doing wonderful with how it was medieval but with futuristic aspects like a lot of the original concept art helped it in my opinion. But they still do amazing with FFX and beyond with creativity, setting, and characters. Still, you bring up great opinions on the subject. The game's quality and storytelling matter first. As long as we don't get products that are big typical tropes, I think we are fine.

Jrpgs and anime have always been 2 sides of the same coin imo and I think the amount of crossover amongst fans kinda shows that

I feel like this issue would be better solved by just having a term that refers to this specific type of anime that seems kind of saturated in the market right now, but its hard to narrow down what that is precisely. I could try and say its like shounen-esque story with moe character designs and fanservice, but I think theres still different types of anime even within those parameters. Its also a matter of degree, how much shounen elements is too much, how much moe is too much? Its gonna differ by person. But there is still an overall vibe from this type of anime and I think most people recognize that as the modern anime stereotype. So when people say “too anime” this is what they’re referring to for lack of a better term because its hard to be precise with a vibe. And I think most people don’t want to speak a paragraph upfront to explain what they mean every single time for a very basic point. Its just shorthand. In context, like if youre talking with a friend who generally gets your tastes or if the conversation was already about this type of anime or something, in context shorthand works fine. If the context is not understood, you just ask for it. I feel like as far as the issue of people complaining that a series has “become too anime”, this is a non issue. They mean that a series has turned into a different style of anime, one that was different from before and one that feels more like the stereotypical modern image of anime. In context, I think this is generally understood. No one’s complaining about it just being broadly anime. However, I guess it could be an issue in regards to the language we use actually limiting our scope of what we consider anime. Like if anime is just the modern stereotype, and anything outside isn’t anime. Its too cool to be anime. As if “anime” is some dirty weeb word.

Since I'm still playing through XC2 and don't wanna be spoiled, I haven't watched the video, but from what I've seen of some of your comments, it's kinda baffling to me how it can be thought XC2 is too ecchi or fanservicey, not that you can't prefer the original but outside of optional stuff, there generally isn't much fanservice stuff, and it's not even like the tone of the game is completely lighthearted starting out. There's really only that one scene in Chapter 4 that's anime as well as that hot spring scene, but I can't recall another aspect of the game that was filled with anime tropes, so when people say or act like half of the game has it, it comes off as disingenuous to me.

I blame XC1 fans for everything. XC2 fans are only clapping back, a reaction if you will. Because if XC1 fans didn't whine even before the game came out, none of this would be an issue. XC1 fans were the ones who cried about the Boob Slider in X (which was taken out in the international version), and XC1 fans also cried when the Xenoblade Twitter started tweeting out new Blades every day. I believe the whole issue about XC2's fanservice being used in a humorous manner is nothing more than people who don't watch much anime having a problem with anime tropes in general, which is why they say "it's too anime". I agree that there are a lot of braindead harem ecchi anime out there, but the tropes themselves aren't bad. There are some anime that use the same tropes as the braindead titles but are very good stories: Gurren Lagann, Kill La Kill, Highschool DxD, To Love Ru Darkness, etc. By extension, Xenoblade 2. Meanwhile, not every anime story that treats sex in a natural manner like Xenogears did are good stories: Gundam Seed Destiny, Darling in the Franxx, Kakumeiki Valvrave, to name a few.

Don't fuck with Xenoblade fans, Nobody hates Xenoblade more than they do

For what its worth, Pyra/Mythra's designs and the hot springs scene do have a greater purpose beyond fanservice. Though, it does go into spoiler territory.

If someone complain about something being "too anime" I assume it's strictly about the sexual humor and fanservice and nothing else. There's nothing wrong with not liking that but you'd think people would be more specific and contstructive about their complaints instead of just saying vapid nothings just to get a dunk in. Personally I think they're prudish but that's just me.

Nice to see a sane take on JRPGs from someone. I think the deeper problem that this video illustrates even beyond the "anime" topic is just how poorly JRPG fans tend to compose themselves around others, and how poor-faith so much of the discourse around lots of these games tend to be. As a huge fan of the Xenoblade games, I often find myself taking a look at what other fans are talking about because I naturally want to try and be social with others who share in my interests, but I always find myself getting burned from how little it seems other people actually want to consider other people's perspectives. It feels much more like people only want to project their subjective thoughts on video games as inherently intelligent and to protect their own insecurities, completely unconcerned with the concept of actually socializing. Its just so.. exhausting, it paints a picture from a goddamn junior high cafeteria. The fact that the term "correct opinion" has become something that people actually use and take seriously is laughable in itself. Its endlessly refreshing to find the occasional rational person among these discussions who can display an actual human amount of empathy and composure and engage in discussion in genuinely good faith, but its a feeling that is all too rare as these games become more and more popular and attract more and more people.

3:08 That feels more like a coincidental fanservice shot than an intentional one. Like what is she gonna do hold her hands like that in front of her face or by her belly? It just feels more natural to make that pose around the chest if you're trying to show someone it. Plus core crystals are always around a Blade's chest area so it makes that she would show her fingers like that around her chest.

NEO Twewy music lets go

On the subject of xenoblade chronicles 2 and the character designs of Pyra and Mythra, I’m gonna just go and play devils advocate by claiming there are other parts of their character designs that go unnoticed because people are too fixated on their clothing and cleavage. There are. Pyra has a bob cut; Mythra has long hair. Pyras sword has a hilt and a blade on one side whereas mythras is equal all around. Pyra has round eyes to paint her as soft-spoken but Mythra has angular eyes to signify her brash personality. I understand these details aren’t as apparent as the amount of skin revealed for both but they do exist. Pyra in general is meant to invoke a sense of incompleteness (hence why she looks “off”.) Mythra is slightly better at hiding this, but you can still see there is something wrong with her and I’m not just purely talking about aesthetics either. I’m talking internally. For both of them. The boobs and ass sizes may be a little too much for some, and I’m personally not a fan of it, but it is what it is and there more to the designs than what people see them as. I don’t think they’re perfect, but the smaller details exist. That’s all.

This is sort of a silly video to make. If someone says that SMTIVA has more anime tropes. I know what they mean especially in the context of the internet and where I’m getting that info from. We’re using a stereotype to quickly convey information. I feel like you’re just explaining something obvious. Of course, SMT has always been anime. It has a goofy Japanese title and the typical aesthetic, but that’s not what we mean when we say that it’s ‘becoming more anime’. We mean it’s leaning into the cliche tropes. I know this, you know this, we all know this. This video is made for like the 5 basement dwellers who don’t understand this and even then, they probably wouldn’t watch this video. That’s why I think this video is sorta pointless. You’re talking to us like we can’t understand context.

I do know by a fact and experience that people in Japan consider Curious Jorge and Evangelion as Anime, so there is that but here in the west a division was made, a line that exists. I consider that something is going "turbo/anime" when it stops having an individual personality and begins to follow common tropes, structures, and archetypes found in popular media. "Adult Animation" for example has many instances of shows that have to be comedy based, "offensive", and "outrageous" pieces of media that tries sometimes too hard to be relevant. It is easy to see, but with "Anime" or Japanese pop culture, there is so much, but huge amounts of material being produced and referenced not only in games but in everything in entertainment that they can get away with following a standard without much difficulty, you can see it with animes that are a simple premise but if you have watched other content produced in Japan you would notice that everything you have seen is reproduced somewhere else, no originality used, and it doesn't feel so bad because they even pull from their day to day life and culture and since everything is foreign you can go and not notice. With SMT I can clearly say that Doi has used pop culture more as a base compared to Kaneko, but I still feel his individual vision on his designs, well enough that I can say Doi did it. For me that's enough, they can pull up from wherever they want as long as it works, there is no shame.

Its kind of annoying that this trend has been simplified to something as vague as "being anime", but I've never really seen it. I guess it happens on Twitter or something where people can just spout a random blurb for clout without needing clarification. But I do agree that the trend of pandering more to anime fans through stuff like adding "waifu" characters and whatnot to be mostly negative to the quality of newer games. It feels like some series are increasingly trying to copy what is successful rather than focusing on creating something more meaningful, which also makes it feel like the developers make these choices out of greed, at least to me. Almost as if with some of these games they're ticking boxes on how they can optimally appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I think any definition of anime outside of “Japanese animated production” is unworkable. Any definition by artstyle/medium/tropes excludes too much while a definition by “influence” is too vague. It is not a genre but a subset of animation produced in a particular industry and system. Also before any genius tries to argue that well “they animate it in Korea/The Philippines” the outsourced studios have little to no creative say in the product. If I make a RU-vid video and write the script and do the voice over and gather materials and do the research but I get someone else to do the editing and thumbnail under a set of instructions is it their video now?

I personally really like XC2, I enjoyed XC1 a lot as well but I always felt story and mystery XC1 is really good but the actual characters felt more dry. I like light hearted moments in XC2 same way I enjoyed in AI Somnium Files but I guess not lot of people in to that.

Great video as always. The complaint of something being "too anime" never really made sense to me. On Xenoblade, Xenoblade 2 is an interesting game to say the least. I do prefer it to 1 because I think its characters develop and interact with each other better than in the first game, and I also like the combat, story(higher highs, but lower lows IMO) and music more. That being said I agree with your criticisms of the game. The designs of specifically the female characters are extremely fanservicey that it kinda detracts from their characters. There's nothing wrong with having a more sexual design but when one of a character's most prevelant traits is being modest, having them wear skin tight, extremely short shorts, kinda clashes with it. Not to mention the framing of the shots in the game left me feeling a bit uncomfortable at times. Also why does Rex have a crotch window??? 1 is a more consistent game in terms of plot writing(although I think that it kinda falls off at the end, at least dialogue-wise), and more subdued in its fanservice so in that sense, I do think it's preferable to 2's more... extreme approach to things. So while I do prefer 2 to 1, it's not by much, and I completely understand why people prefer 1.

I'm glad you were able to frame this whole "too anime" problem better than most people. I do agree with some of the framing aspects of XC2 but it never really bothered me too much since it wasn't so frequent as other fanservice anime and games that people claim it's like. Though I don't really agree with the whole thing about Pyra and Mythra's outfits don't suit their characters. Given the whole "incomplete" theme they have. Sure they could try and convey it by having those skin exposed areas be black instead, but that wouldn't really work visually considering their complete form Pneuma is already completely covered. So I don't think it would read as well. I won't go into it further seeing as other people in the comments have gone more in-depth with it. Though I did find the last bit of XC2 fans attacking you for criticizing the game kind of insulting. Especially since most fans are kind of tired of arguing this topic anyway. And you at least presented your arguments better than most others.

when people said it's "too much anime"it's usually comes down to 2 things: 1. Art Style 2. Story OR they simply don't like the change and rather than explaining why they don't like it they instead said "too much anime" cuz they guess what haven't even played the game yet. also holy xenoblade fans '-'

I think the SMT fanbase was just so happy that SMT5 was released, they didn’t care whether or not it was “too anime”

I feel like the outfits make sense in xenoblade 2 when you think of the lore. Blades are beings that are made from the minds of the driver the initially bonded with. Like the spider guy who looks inhuman because he was bonded with a spider. It makes sense to me that a teenage boys mind would make a tig ol biddy girl that is conventionally good looking. Just like how the main samurai bad ice guy is a cool anime boy and his driver was female. But I get how people wouldn't like it if they don't like the tropes it uses. Different folks different strokes.

08:17 I love BOTH Xenoblade Chronicles 1 AND 2 (yeah we people exist) and i don't understand why people feel the need to "choose" between the 2 games. Can't wait for Xenoblade Chronicles 3

Lol, am I the only one who thinks anime fans are often way too sadomasochistic about what they enjoy? It’s like you have to criticize some anime for “going too far” in being too tropey or too sexual to feel like your opinion is valid. Here’s a tip. Never criticize it based on “too tropey” or “too fan-service” and then maybe you might actually say something more nuanced and thoughtful. The main idea of this video hit the mark, but the criticisms of SMT 4A and Xeno 2 really are just as vapid and meaningless as saying “too anime.” When you judge an old western movie, you don’t criticize it for having tropes. 90% of the movies have tropes in them. That says nothing about any of the movies good or bad points. The same goes for sexuality. Anyone who gets distracted by the sexuality to the point where they can’t concentrate on the story’s gravitas probably has some untended urge that needs tending, lol. Anime lovers, be proud that the genre has the guts to even have tropes and fan-service. You don’t need to attack those facets to sound measured.

JRPGs have always been anime, dragon quest was designed by akira toriyama creator of dragon ball z

I'll admit, I do prefer the old look to SMT games, but I'd be stupid to say it wasn't anime. I just love a good deal of anime that came out during SMT's time. I love the look, and the stories, and I generally find those types of anime more interesting. All that being said, I'm still willing to check out newer titles. I just know what I like, and I understand that things are going to change with time.

This video was excellent as to why “become anime” is such a lazy critique. One point I’d add is that anime in terms of series and movies has changed a lot since the 90’s. Modern anime features a lot more fan service in my opinion and a game like Xenoblade 2 is sort of following suit. Early games like Xenogears were just as inpiried by anime as xenoblade 2, but I think the anime from the late 80’s and early 90’s was just so different from anime that came out in 2017. I recently discovered your channel as I’m getting onto SMT now. But this same discussion is happening a lot with fire emblem, a series I am very much a boomer about. And seeing the same criticism that the modern games are more anime is just an inadequate criticism

The term most people mean is "Tropey". All of these things people complain about are tropes; The accidental pervy moment the hotsprind scene the abusive girl played for comedy bit etc. I guess it just wouldn't be the modern times though without people grossly misusing a word and demanding its definition changes to match the new context instead of looking to see if we already got a word for it.

They way people talk about anime as if it was a genre bugs me a lot. Saying you "don't like anime" is like saying you "don't like movies" or music, books, etc. Also, NEO The World Ends With You music, you're the man. Great video

It's interesting when you look at the Xeno series and you see what was/is popular in anime like Xenogears being influenced by 90s anime like Evangelion.

Totally agree with you point bro. SMT has always been anime it just shifted styles

Saying any JRPG is to anime just makes you look stupid because for starters what does that even mean? It's almost like these JRPG's are made by a Japanese company for Japanese consumers. When it comes to the whole fan service thing, like bro the Xeno games are rated T so they can get away with showing off a bit of skin. Monolith Soft has been doing since the beginning of the Xeno franchise with Xenosaga (sorry Gears isn't considered to be apart of the franchise it was developed be Square).

>Wait, everything was anime? >always has been

Animes for me are producs from Japan with a heavy influence of japanese culture. Of course JRPG are Anime as hell and the reasone why I love them. I'm not a big fan of fan service, most of the time it didn't hit my taste, but I also not react allergic like other, which immediately scream in agony, because character show a little too much skin or of a panty shot.

I feel like "SMT has turn too anime" was just a result of Apocalipsis story using very old JRPG tropes that go aggaist SMT identity. Like, think about it, every SMT game accuse of being "too anime" was always around Apocalipsis and it was only Apocalipsis that had anything beyond minor stuff being cited as too anine.

When Devil Summoner Soul Hackers 2 trailer was shown. I was critical of its art theme going from 90's cyberpunk style that was in Soul Hackers to a colorful TMS like design. Still getting the game but wished it did a modern take on 90's cyberpunk.

I like Xenoblade 2...sorry you have to put up with people getting overly defensive about it. Personally I feel most of the criticism is warranted but also takes place 90% in the beginning of the game so I kinda get tired of hearing about it. Most of the game is great but it is the definition of "it gets good eventually". I generally feel that whenever anyone says something is anime they just mean it has waifus or is extremely over the top. Either that or just some good old fashion power of friendship, which is probably why 4Apocalypse is the most anime game in the series. It was neat watching this because I've basically already gone through this with the Fire Emblem series which also got criticized for becoming anime, conveniently around the same time the series embraced the idea of waifus. Again, people are just mad at the idea that the thing they like might be associated with cringey body pillow weebs, and fair enough I hate those too. But asking to avoid being associated with nerdy fans is like asking for icecream without sugar. I'm sure it's out there, might even taste good, but in the mean time have you tried, not eating icecream? Maybe try the fabled vegetable (aka going outside)

Admittedly when I first clicked on the video I thought you were going to talk mostly about the art style.

even though I disagree with your xenoblade 2 criticism it feels nice to have someone have a nuanced discussion about xenoblade 2.I enjoy xeno 2 and it felt cool for someone to have a nuanced discussion on why they personally disliked it instead of anime bad

8:42 I like both XC and XC2, however the only thing I don't like is the Gacha stuff in XC2

I really like the anime design for the JRPGs especially Xenogears and I really like how you described their tropes here.

As someone who loved 90s and 2000s era anime and manga (not so much modern stuff) but only got into jrpgs in the last 8 or so years, I don’t really understand this. It seems clear that jrpgs of all ages were influenced to some degree by the popular and acclaimed anime and manga of their time. I played Xenogears and loved it, but I also played Xenoblade 2 and absolutely adored it. It’s one of my all time favorite games. When people bring up this argument, I think it’s clear that there’s a massive gap between the (much bigger) anime and manga fandom and the jrpg fandom. I guess a lot of you guys grew up with jrpgs, but never really got into anime, so you reject the current direction. To that I say jrpg fans should try checking out some series. You might enjoy it. If not, oh well, but I think interest in and knowledge of anime and manga would go a long way in terms of appreciation for jrpgs. As someone who’s seen everything from Samurai Champloo to To Love Ru, not a single jrpg I’ve played bothered me with it’s style, tropes, or anything of the sort.

I guess the issue with the...anime influences, is not so much that is reminiscent to anime, but whetever the influences are too intrusive within the context of the story, or if they are too in your face for the player. I don't think being anime is the problem, but how you anime, with context and class. Or at least I think so. I'm all here for it anyways. Love your work Macca 🙂

Damn a lot of these people did not watch the video

8:22 to 8:50 could not express enough how I’m feeling about the xenoblade fanbase right now lmao, love all xeno games and have my fair gripes with certain aspects like anyone else, but damn it’s tiresome getting this air of hostility by just perceiving XC1 and XC2 discussions. And 3’s speculation once again leading to another chance of having discourse exacerbated. Really hope (but don’t expect at all) after 3 is out and the hype goes down more chill debate can happen.

hi, another xenoblade 2 fan here. youve probably heard this plenty of times already but there is an actual point to the specific places both pyra and mythra have exposed skin, as they are in different places and are meant to complete each other, one of the most easy to notice examples being how pyras shoulders are covered and mythras arms are covered. there is also the fact that pneuma barely has as much exposed skin as the other two. i will say although this can be argued to justify the partial nudity of both characters, i cant ignore that there was probably a smarter way to execute this character narrative of being "incomplete" and the way they executed this could just be an excuse for partial nudity related fanservice. personally tho, despite what ive said, i have no problem with the fanservice really and it never bothered me almost at all (tbf tho my two favorite animes are gurren lagann and kill la kill, just to put that into perspective), but thats just me, and i can totally understand if someone were to criticize that aspect of the game. on a side note, i just wanted to say that that last little part in the video felt unnecessary, and i completely respected and understood everything you had to say about the game up until that point. as you can tell by this video being out for a few days most (if not all because honestly i havent seen any) of us had or have no intention to yell at you just cuz you criticized our game, especially when you did such a fair and understanding job at doing so. also i dont think anyone has said that just cuz xc2 fans get hit with much more toxicity than xc1 fans it justifies xc2 fans being toxic to an extent, im pretty sure all of our parents taught us at some point that two wrongs dont make a right when we were kids lmao. regardless i enjoyed and liked the video but i just wanted to put this opinion out there.

Don't ever disrespect Pyra and mythra again or else

SMT was always pretty anime, I feel like other jrpgs are just catching up

I've never played any Xenoblade game in my life, thanks this video I'm never going to touch that thing in my life

When making a sexual character, take the Kainé and Bayonetta route of writing the character to make the sexual aspects make sense first, and put them in revealing outfits later.

Wasn’t the Character Artist for Xenoblade 2 a hentai artists.

You hit upon a good point. Xenogears was made in a different time, and was inspired by what made a lot of tropes in media at the time. It's the same stuff NGE was birthed from. Also i come from the future to say that there are people critisizing X3's designs for being too subtle so this is why we can't have nice things

SMT has always been 80s OVA anime

Bro JRPGs has always been anime right from the beginning of this genre 💀

Nice, TWEWY music on the background

Anime, at least as defined in english vocabulary, is animation primarily produced in/by Japan. That is the objective definition, there are no if and or buts about it, that is what Anime is. We can use the word to describe other forms of media, sure, but if it wasn't primarily produced in/by Japan then it isn't an Anime. This is not my opinion, this is a fact.

Your definition of too anime is basically shonen. Old Megaten based on the book even released it's own ova. So you could say old, or the first few megaten had a 80s 90s dark fantasy/sci fi anime style to em.

i feel this video is harping too much on the semantics rather than what people are actually saying when they say “its too anime”. i think pointing out that what they’re saying could mean a million things therefore their position is invalid is a strawman. i think we all know what they’re saying when they (including myself) complain about the anime-ification of the smt franchise. and by the way, despite old smt being influenced by well known media of the time, that doesnt mean its art style was mainstream. particularly kaneko’s art style, there really wasnt much else like it at the time. persona on the other hand has a very mainstream art style, you can point to dozens of properties that look very similar to it.

Thank you someone needed to say it and I’m so happy many others agree. These beloved series have always been anime or within the culture of it, while there are some franchises like the Souls Series made by Japan that aren’t anime there would’ve been valid complaints of ‘being too anime’ if it were to suddenly show up there. Instead people have to complain about anime being in something THAT LOOKS LIKE ANIME

Great fucking video, spot on with your points. Video was fucking cripsy, entertaining, and a bit eye opening.

i understand they mean 2010's anime tropes are being injected into jrpgs. which i am not a fan of either what bothers me is people being in denial and acting like jrpgs and anime were separate things until the 2010's turned jrpgs into anime. wanna know why i got into the tales series in the first place? it reminded me of a Shonen anime.

Yes the game that has a full on Voltron cutscene and a very famous scene that could be directly pulled from Gundam or any popular mecha anime at the time (Maria confronting her father) is not anime. Anyone who says Xenogears is not anime is full on smoothbrain. That game borrows very heavily from what was popular in mecha and scifi anime at the time. Heavy religious themes? Evangelion was popular at the time. A lot of those same themes are even present in current day mecha anime. FYI: The Mythra scene was meant to show that despite how she is the Aegis, very powerful and very intimidating, Mythra is a bit of a klutz. She does the same thing to Addam in Torna. Also, I think it's very stupid how Persona 3 and Persona 4 are very popular games with that same crowd and it does the same shit. People like the hotsprings scene, including the part where it's implied that Naoto is stacked. Though I guess Persona 4 got shit on until Persona 5 came out then with the re-release of Golden on Steam suddenly it was a retro game and therefore cool to like. Xenoblade 2 even borrows a good amount of ideas from Xenogears. Zeke is basically Bart. He even has a Bart color. The Zohar which is a very huge tie in. Bana and Muimui boarding Rosa is basically the callback to the Voltron scene in Xenogears. Pyra/Mythra's role in the story is very similar to Elly and to some extent Miang. The difference is I think Pyra/Mythra are written better. Elly doesn't really have much going for her outside of her relationship with Faye which was kind of similar issues with later characters like Sharla, Fiora, and to some lesser extent Melia though Melia is by far the best written of the three. Sharla is not even really a character and Fiora is barely a character. From the start Pyra/Mythra have their own dilemma and their own goals which exist entirely independent of whether or not they met Rex. Rex ends up being an important key to solve some of her problems (helping her build back trust in herself, and taking her to Elysium), but it's an existing idea that she was already dealing with and has been dealing with for a while. Rex isn't actually informed of what's going on with her until very late in the game. And the relationship with Pyra/Mythra and Rex is just as pivotal to the story of Xenoblade 2 as Elly and Faye were in Xenogears. The main issue is Rex is very young (15) which I understand why they went with that but it does make actual relationship building a little awkward since Pyra/Mythra are mentally more mature. But from Torna the big thing was Addam was afraid of Mythra which is why he couldn't control her power and why she also lost confidence in herself. Rex had the endless optimism/innocence to believe in Pyra/Mythra no matter what which is what she needed more than anything. So maybe that was easier to pull off with a younger protagonist, but it's still a little awkward. Rex should have been a little older imo. And it's also very dumb to say Elly is not used for fanservice. Look at her mech and her mech's name. She's very much designed after what was popular for scifi and mecha heroines at the time. She's naked on the cover of Perfect Works. Fanservice back then was different than it was now, but that doesn't make it not fanservice. I will say that if you think the appearance should match the personalities a bit more and that Rex needs actual pants, I 100% agree with you. Rex's pants are stupid. But the designs in Xenoblade 2 aren't bad. Arguably the female characters are the best in the series. If you lined up Pyra, Mythra, Brigid, Morag, Nia, Lora, Haze, Pandoria, all the Poppis and compared them to the other heroines in the series, as a whole their designs are pretty good. Lora, Morag, Haze, Poppi alpha are huge improvement from pretty much any of the other heroines in X or 1. Not having changeable armor is also probably a good thing considering how awful the female armor was in Xenoblade 1 and Xenoblade X and the costumes they got in 2 were very tame in comparison.

While I most certainly do not intend to defend every scene in XC2 this way, the scene where Rex wakes up in Pyra's lap doesn't seem that egregious to me. It's a romance story. It's a cute moment where the boy is met with a pretty but also slightly indecent sight, yet the moment is also intimate. In fact a bit more intimate than it should be, which is what has him embarrassed.

THIS. Pretty much what I've always been saying. It's like people don't even think before talking. SMT has ALWAYS been anime, and that's a damn fact, even when talking about humor and stuff you can tell very clearily the way they go for it, just talk to any damn demon in any of the games for YHVH's sake! Of course, the type of direction has undoubtedly changed with times, but that's only natural. You can't expect a series as long as SMT to stay the same for 30+ years, just look how different Nocturne is compared to SMT 1 and 2, for example. As for XB2, while I have never played the game itself and can't really talk about how that's compared to previous games, I HAVE played 1 and watched 2's plot online out of curiosity (since I just don't have any proper ways of playing it), and while I *can* understand how lotta people can find the fanservice distracting or annoying, it felt pretty tame to me. After watching anime like Monogatari, Mushoku Tensei, High School DXD, etc. you kinda get the jest of how japanese like their fanservice, very "in your face" and exaggerated, which, to be quite honest, makes a lot of sense considering the medium as a whole. It's neither necessarily bad nor good, as much as it's a matter of taste/tolerancy, cause I mean, they wouldn't do it like that if they didn't like it, right? That's the way I see it at least. Just giving my 2 cents on the matter

I was focused on the video until Rockin Rockin began playing at the very end loving Neo Twewy ost

Twewy my beloved