Nice report. I am an XdB owner and I agree with everything you said. I have long been a great fan of the Grand Avant Garde, but it is just too expensive for me. So, when I heard the XdB at the Montreal show I realized that here is a chance to approach the G.A.G. sound for a price that I could possibly afford. I have owned the XdB for about 6 months now and am really loving it. It has the wonderful big, tight bass as well as the amazingly smooth highs of the G.A.G. I would not at all be surprised if the Xdb is using the same tweeter from heaven as the G.A.G. It images much better than my previous floor-standing speakers, and, better than the 3-way stand mount model that I was originally contemplating. It has been my experience that 2-way speakers often image better than 3-way speakers. As you mentioned, I found that I got a bit more "air" and more room-filling soundscape when connected to a 130 Watt amp that I tested in my system for a couple of months when compared to my own 70 Watt amp. (both at 8 ohms). People who enjoy a neutral sound would need to definitely avoid any "warm" amps.
Thanks for the review Thomas, once again you have accurately described what i also heard at the show listening to these speakers. Some day i hope to own a pair of Gershmans, i always have loved their sound.
I am fortunate enough to own a pair of Gershman Black Swans. Because most people in China do not recognize this brand, I bought them at a very low price. They sound fantasic🙂
Thomas, excellent review. How do you compare these speakers to the Grande Avant Gardes?. Do you have experience with the Studio II's? I have the studio II's and super impressed with them esp the bass. I am considering upgrading to the Avant Gardes. Is their night and day difference between the Audio II/XDB vs Avant Garde's?
Awesome welcome back Thomas. Think I suggested this before: sell entry tickets to your place so subscribers listen to the different speakers being reviewed.
Great review Thomas. The fact that Gershman has access to a studio that they use as reference is intriguing. This brings me to another brand, Rosso Fiorentino, that also has such access to their own performance and recording space, Sala del Rosso, to use as a reference in development of their speakers. I know some of your fellow RU-vid reviewers have covered some of Rosso Fiorentino's more affordable products such as the Elba 2 and Certaldo 2. Wondering if you have any experience/opinion with Rosso Fiorentino or possibility of future review of one of their products. Thanks for the good work!
Thank you for this review Thomas. If I may ask you a couple of questions, what size listening room do you have? Or, alternatively, what size room do you think minimally the Xdb speakers work well in? Also, how far back should one optimally sit from these speakers to allow the soundstage to fully develop? Thank you for your help!
I remember it was either 11x19 feet or 13x19ft. It worked well in my room but the point I was trying to make is the bigger the better because it is a large scale speaker. I was about 6 to 7 ft away because I like to pull out my speakers at least 4 ft from the wall.
These would be great to send to Erin to measure. Actually it would be a great idea to work with Erin and have him measure some speakers you review. Of course the ones the manufacturers allow to be measured. It would also be able to ‘ assist’ you in knowing what you like. For example the air you love ( and so do I ) most likely comes from a wide dispersion speaker, with a flat or slightly elevated treble response. Just an idea. Great video and sharp looking speakers !
@@ThomasAndStereo I guess there is a downside of those who rely too much on measurements but to eliminate them doesn't count as a part of the solution.
Incredibly deep bass from a standmount! Well - not a detachable stand? A bit strange that the tweeter is not flush in the baffle? I'd be curious to learn how a standmount has an inherent advantage in soundstage and imaging; over a similarly slim tower speaker?
Neither tweeter or midwoofer are flush. While generally unusual, some MarkAudio drivers are designed for flush mounting. Only a manufacturer enquiry or measurements will tell?
Hi Thomas……I’m really interested in those Schiit Tyrs. They’re needing a critical review/ comparison, which has been absent within the RU-vid HiFi community. I beg you please.
Still doesn't come close because XDA has long throw 2inch magnets, those suspension rubber are still firm, for great ultimate hard deeeeep bass, not your usual crap soft foam.
Regarding air, when I was doing diy speakers changing from basic Solen caps to higher hi caps and resistors made quite a difference in Air, of course you have to get all the other things correct,
“Air” is forever as elusive as finding my perfect speakers. I recently started using these power cables made locally. One model is for the source-type devices, and one is for power or high-current ones. Both cables use similar materials and share nearly identical proprietary parts, construction methods, geometry, and techniques. I started with just a couple of them on the source components and couldn’t stop. Then there were three more after, one for the preamp and two more for the power amps. Eventually, I realized three significant findings after I started using them. One - Synergy from the similarly designed cables produced a more substantial improvement than possible if I had mixed cables from different brands. Two - with one on each of the components in the system, the power cables form a complete protective shield against interferences from the AC. The sound is much cleaner, quieter, and more dynamic. The tones or timbre are fuller and more complex, the decays are longer, and the micro and macro dynamics and details have also improved. Three - Perhaps due to the cleaner power, the sound or the entire soundstage has also become "Airier" or has a more palpable sense of presence and layering of depth. These cables did not change the tonal balance of the sound. They only allowed the components to operate much better with purer AC. If you only use one brand of cables in the system, you will have a better chance of having synergy than mixing. What is Air? Air is from the delicate nuances in the high frequencies. If your power is not clean or quiet enough, the artifacts may mask or cancel these very high and tiny spatial signals we call Air.
I disagree on a couple of points. If the cables have an weaknesses they will be compounded by using an entire loom of that brand. I'll admit that it is much more difficult to get different brands to work together but the results can exceed that of using the same model of cable. I have found that cables work best with specific components meaning that a certain power cord works great for an amp but not so much for a preamp. I select cables that work with a specific component but also that simultaneously plays well within the system. Then again, I have been doing this for over 45 years.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Dear Carlos, Thank you for your comment. It sounds like we should be about the same age too. I started listening to my father's system around 10 or 11, and then around my high school years I saved up each summer to upgrade. My first piece was a Rega P3 with the then brand-new RB300. Back to the cables, I didn’t notice any weaknesses; otherwise, I wouldn’t use them on my entire system. Of course, YMMV. Initially, I started just one at a time: the DAC, then the streamer. This process took almost two years and was always on a no-commitment trial basis. First, there was only one version for the source-type components; the one designed for the power amp and pre-amps came much later. In hindsight, I deduced the synergy was with the cables.
Thomas: A sound engineer of a famous recording studio in Belgium told me that, in order for a recording to have air, he added a narrow peak of 5 dB at 15 kHz. It won't sound brighter but it puts a space around the instruments which provides better clarity (or something like that).
I'd expect the tweeter to be recessed at that pricepoint. The stand to me just appear to be an bass outlet near the floor to get boundary reinforcement. And you dont get wave cancellation in regular 1/4 distance to an boundary.
Adding weight to a panel to reduce panel resonant frequency is as old as the hills. My Malcom Jones (of KEF & Falcon fame) designed 1978 Tabor DIY bookshelf speakers were lined INSIDE with bitumous felt panels to add weight & DAMPEN the panels. The outside had 1/8" hardboard applied as a veneer, early constrained layer damping! As a result they weigh 50lbs each. While the stand as a line extension is new, why not make it into a floor stander to ease construction & reduce cost?
Mr T what you need to get is a oval balanced reproduction of your vocal recording in your situation and that is a shot gun microphone above you out of sight and pointing down at your face. Couple it with something like a latch lake stand. Then you will get uniformed results with all audio recordings within your videos. By doing this you then enter into the pro end result/s
I do have very good mics BUT the problem is not the mic but the camera. Nikon D750 sucks for audio recording, meaning it clips if I increase the volume. I did try to buy a video camera but found out quickly that the cheap video cameras really suck when it comes to image quality. My only option that I am happy with is to send about $2k to $3k to get a new camera.
Obviously you can tell the bass is immense, because you look at the excursionwoofer , no speakers or worth over 100k has this and the rubber suspension has2inch .
Sorry, don't know why I thought that you are in Toronto area :) Glad that you were able to compare amplifiers with the same speaker, considering that usually at the shows the setup is far from perfect. You can also try a little brother SQuark from Eon Art, it has the same DNA, and the magic will be still there. I had an opportunity to compare them head to head at my house.
No offense but that's crazy! So your saying my Legacy Focus speakers at 13×16×58" tall and 200lbs isn't a tower speaker? Definition of a tower speaker is basically a speaker that stands on the floor with no stand.
@@BillDouglass-m9d No, seriously. Look at the definition of tower. I abhor the kind of slang that makes no sense. Even 3 foot tall speakers are called towers now. What you have is a floorstanding speaker. My speakers are taller than most people, therefore a "tower". If everything on the floor is a tower how is that a useful descriptor? This is a fairly recent bit of nonsense but it should be quashed. We should be done with the term bookshelf speaker as it's no longer appropriate and stick to stand mounted. Thirty-five years ago I had 5 foot tall 185 lb speakers and never considered them "towers". Out of curiosity which speakers do you own?
There is back-wave control in every box speaker ever made with varying success. I would guess it's a tl or mltl. Could be wrong but unless someone cuts one open we'll never know I guess. I hate the gold screws! I still want some:-) Thanks Thomas.
I'm sure they sound good, but I would never pay that amount of money for something with an ugly disc sitting on the top and ruining its looks. Surely, since it only serves to function as a stabilizing weight, they could have integrated it into the cabinet for a more seamless look. It sure is ugly.
That's BSis no way going to be 23 hurts not flatlined at what minus DB is it 23 hurts they don't say! You could say any woofer can do 23 Hz all depends on how many DB down is
I built some DIY Gershman clones. Same oem midrange and tweeter anyone can buy off the shelf. They Woofer is proprietary so I chose Morel. It cost less than $1k for the pair which sells for $100k. Wish I could A/B a real pair. I guess the same could be said for every speaker brand costing over $10k. Your paying for the right to say "my speakers cost X". They do make a nice looking speaker. The gold screws look nice, don't lose them they probably charge $100ea lol
I have a friend who makes speakers professionally, not DIY. I believe he uses mostly off the shelf drivers too, Even so, it takes him years to design a speaker. When a new model or revision gets close to being final, he calls me in and I help him do the final voicing. All companies do it. One person can't do the whole thing. You need as much input as possible from different listeners using different electronics. Anyway, its just very interesting because you may be able to clone the exterior shape, but if you don't have the blueprints to make the interior of the cabinet the same as well, I don't see how it can be done. But my main point is how much labor goes into designing a speaker like the ones in the video. The cost of the drivers themselves isn't all that much. The real cost is in the design.
@@AT-wl9yq 100% unless you have friends in the business. Remove some drivers and examine the crossover board. Its not difficult to take a look under the hood when you have access to the speaker. None of it is magic. Just parts. GR Research has people send HIM speakers to upgrade the XO parts. He has seen 1000's of different speakers inside and out. Having instruments in your showroom is more marketing and smoke and mirrors to sell the customer on their dream. Speakers are designed with computer measurements
@@ThomasAndStereo Agreed and all those ingredients are off the shelf. Just have to learn how much and what goes where. You should have a cooking video along side a review. That would be a comedic analogy.
If you want to achieve the same effect as Gershman by purchasing your own treble and bass units and crossovers, that is impossible, because while they are making speakers, they are also using various music equipment for debugging. In a professional studio, you don’t have such conditions to test.
To say Gershman use real instruments as a music test for life like instrument sounds , an 8 inch alloy bass unit for a start doesn't possess the mid clarity of a pair of 3 way active ATC SCM50 ASL monitors , nor even the mid clarity of ATC'S basic entry level active 2 way SCM19A . I don't think the Gershman at 12000 is a good enough performer to beat both the entry level and higher level active ATC SCM ASL monitors in for midrange detail full stop . Mating an 8 inch alloy mid bass driver to a 1 inch dome silk dome is an instant recipe absolutely for non neutral coloured sound with missing midrange detail full stop . An 8 ich alloy midbass cannot do superlative detailed midrange like a pair of 3 way active ATC SCM ASL monitors , nor can an 8 inch midbass mate to a 1 inch tweeter without some serious flaw and deficiency , and with the gershman been a passive loudspeakers the deficiencies are far greater than if they had decided to make it active . At 12000 it's not worth the money , when you can buy a pair active ATC SCM monitors to suit the size of your listening space . Serious listening to recorded instruments , there is no passive loudspeaker full stop , that beats an active ATC SCM monitor for the sounds of recorded real instruments .
I don't understand how would one express an opinion without listening to this speaker. I I agree with everything Thomas says about the XdB. Your comments demonstrate, a lack of knowledge of high-end speakers.
