We have Chevy Bolt EV. Its EPA range is 259 miles. Though Edmunds range testing puts is as 278 miles. Every year we are going from South Florida to Orlando on vacation. The distance is 230 miles. Every Florida Turnpike service plaza has EV chargers. The Bolt is slow charging car, 55 kW max. We are stopping just once on one of plazas to charge the car, stretch the legs, bathroom, and eat. It takes us 40 minutes total. So, even Bolt EV, with its slow charging, is good enough for such distance. We love our Bolt EV.
5:15 Side quest: I'd love to see you do a parallel drive in your 85 kWh Chevy Equinox EV with an 81 kWh Tesla Model Y. A rubber meets the road test in the same real-world conditions would be super interesting to see.
It's amusing to me how many people insist they could never own an electric vehicle because they're always taking long road trips. Yet, they often lease their cars, with typical annual mileage limits of 10,000 to 12,000 miles. I'm not sure how many "long road trips" they're truly taking.
EV manufacturers need to be reminded of the Law of Diminishing Returns. There is a sweet spot of battery size that provides optimal range and efficiency. The bigger the battery, the heavier and less efficient the EV, which translates to ridiculously long charging times especially without 800V architecture, which then translates to long queues at public DCFCs that affect everyone's charging experience.
I see your point. The other issue is the availability of reliable charging. I could be happy with a 210 mile range at 70mph (about 2.5 hours driving time) IF I could count that there would be a working charger at my chosen rest stop that could charge my pack from 10% to 85% full in about 20 minutes. My fear is that I'll stop and find that all the chargers are broken or that the only ones left will take an hour to bring me up to 85% charge. Part of the reason why I'd like a car with 300 miles at 70mph is that it would give me a little extra security in case the chargers let me down. Part of the desire for ridiculously long range may be the desire for a little security.
for me this is not just a fear..its was a reality. I have shown up to a DCFC with it completely broken. Luckily there was a lvl2 I could use to leap frog to the next station..but it shook my confidence. Now I have to plan to stop with enough range to go to an alternate DCFC if the one I am planning doesn't work
I don't understand this obsession. I've never owned an ICE that was able to go 700 my miles on a tank. I have found that even though it takes longer in my MME, i'm more rested when I arrive because I took actual stops along the way. The only problem I've had is most EA stops have only 4 chargers and at least 1 is broken which means lines. Lines are the problem cause that can double or triple or more you charge stop time.
Hi there! For some, the “going far & fast” will always be the point…for others, the point is to get there whenever…we are not that pressed by time…so charging time is a no issue for us! We bought an EquiNoX for the fact that it’s “cleaner” than the 1ton diesel truck we used to drive…and it’s easier to park! Keep sharing your experience…it helps us better use our intelligence around our first EV! Thanks!
Agree. Smaller batteries quick charging. If you believe as I do that ev's are better for the environment then you should also believe these 100+ kwh batteries are not in line with that ideology. At least not for the average passenger vehicle.
A car that has 300 mile range may have only 250 mile range at highway speeds, and that's driving from 100% to 0%. If driving from 80% to 10% between spots, that 250 mile range becomes 175 miles. In the winter, it may be 20% less efficient, so that 175 miles becomes 140 miles. That's why we want cars with 300 mile range at the minimum, so that we can drive 140 miles between stops. Ideally, I'd like a car that has 210 mile range at 70 mph using only 70% battery and in winter temps so that I can drive 3 hours between stops. My GV60 was getting 160-180 in the summer when using 70% of the battery at highway speeds, so the winter would only be 120 to 150 miles.
@@theaverageev Yes, we are in agreement except that I'd want more than 300 miles at highway speeds for my 2nd EV because of the 70% charging rule and winter hit on efficiency. Then, I'd solely use my GV60 on summer road trips and commuting.
Thanks for the discussion, Tyler! While I don't fully agree on your point about range, I do agree that many people have overemphasized range. Part of the difference in opinion could simply be a matter the region where the person lives. On the East Coast, base range probably isn't the biggest deal. In the Midwest and Western states, 250 to 300 miles of freeway speed range would definitely feel limiting. When you're driving 80 to 85 mph, even 300 miles is only maybe 3 to 3.5 hours before your first stop, and barely 2.5 hours between subsequent stops when charging 10% to 80%. Factoring in winter driving conditions where range can easily be cut by 30%, and you'd go from having a reasonable ICE replacement in summer to a highly compromised road tripper in winter. But we should draw a line in the sand somewhere. I did the math once, and unironically, I settled on a target base range of 420 miles at 70 mph in ideal conditions. Even aerodynamic cars will lose another 10-15% of range going 85 mph, and during winter, as much as 30% or more. Assuming you never want to arrive at a charger/destination with less than 10% battery (a reasonable expectation), on a full battery, that leaves about 330 miles of range at 85 mph in ideal weather and about 250 miles during winter. Charging between 10% and 80% for subsequent stops, that leaves a ~300 mile range between stops at 70 mph in ideal conditions, a ~250 mile range between stops at 85 mph in ideal conditions, and a ~200 mile range between stops in winter conditions. Now, to be fair (and getting back to your point), does everyone need that range? Absolutely not. Less than 25% of the population make regular long trips in a car, and only about 50% of the population make even one round trip of 300 miles or more in a typically year. So there's definitely a need being served by longer range EV cars; it's just not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be. The other sticking point is, from a truck owner's perspective, 300 miles of range is a complete non-starter. Regardless of whether we're talking EVs or ICE, towing with a truck will cut the driving range in half, if not more. Stopping every hour to hour and a half while towing, even if you could add 80% range in just 20 minutes is a huge issue that could add several hours to a long trip. Again, to be fair, not every truck owner regularly tows (I don't), and many who do tow regularly only tow short distances (e.g., farmers). However, whether it's resale value or just the expectation that the truck can tow if necessary, EV trucks are nowhere near where they need to be. GM came close with their 200+ kWh batteries, but even they are only about 50% of the way there.
Thanks for sharing! I guess I don’t emphasize this enough, but current technology doesn’t allow for a car to have that kind of range that the average person will be able to afford and it will be quite some time. Solid state batteries are needed for that, and those have been “coming” for years. Think about it the current 400+ miles cars are: Lucid Air $100,000ish, Model S AWD (probably doesn’t get that at 70mph) $68,000, Silverado EV $100,000, EQS450+ $106,000 (advertised range is much lower but it achieves 400 miles in a highway range test), Rivian R1T dual motor max pack $83,900 (also probably doesn’t achieve over 400 miles at highway speeds). So, I don’t know. I really think the reality of the long range car with current technology is unlikely. As infrastructure improves the long range car will become even more unnecessary and wasteful as we do have a finite number of resources on earth (although they’ll find a way to make a battery out of anything). Maybe we’ll go the Ironman route with mini fusion reactors? 🤣 Winter does present challenges, but fewer people road-trip during winter (not none). So while it is an issue for some, those individuals might need to spend up for a more capable vehicle for their winter needs. On to your point about trucks, I personally don’t think trucks are ready for the big time. The Silverado and Sierra are the only two that are capable enough for the needs of trucks drivers especially those that want to tow. The problem is when you run the numbers fuel-wise it is more expensive to charge an EV truck than a gas equivalent. So if you want to tow short distances occasionally, it’s not the biggest deal! But long distance towing just don’t make any sense. It’s possible sure, but worth it? I don’t think so. Unfortunately, the RAM approach of plugin diesel hybrid might be the best solution for towing at this point in time. In closing, I think that 250-300 at highway speeds is a reasonable that can be achieved soon and can meet the balance of efficiency vs. battery size vs. cost. Thanks again for responding I always appreciate it!
@@theaverageev Yes, the economic and technological limitations are one aspect, but I think we're closer than some might believe, especially for reasonably efficient sedans and crossovers. I know it was a joke about slapping a bigger battery in, but one thing I'd caution against is buying into the anti-GM-EV FUD. Technologically, there's a reason they can use bigger batteries in their EVs while still maintaining competitive or even lower costs. Current Ultium is ~10% more energy dense at a cell and module level than Lucid, Rivian, and Tesla's best batteries at this point, and Ultium is nearly 30% cheaper per finished kWh. Yes, that ruffles some TSLA Bro feathers, but something something about facts caring about feelings. So if we married GM's battery tech with Lucid or Tesla's emphasis on aerodynamics, that 400+ miles at a reasonable cost and weight would definitely be achievable now. As for EV trucks, I'm with you. Based on the numbers I crunched, we'd need batteries approaching 750 Wh/kg energy density that cost around $50 per finished kWh in order to achieve parity with ICE trucks in terms of payload, price, and range. Unfortunately, RAM's strategy of PHEV trucks really only really solves for the range issue (the payload will still be compromised and the cost will still be much, much higher than a standard ICE truck).
People underestimate the need to be able to go 500 miles. Like, who travels 500 miles without stopping? Few to none. I never have and I have taken multiple trips from VA to WI, VA to FL, PA to FL, PA to CO etc... Agreed faster charging is more important.
Most people drive 80% to 10% between stops, so cut that 500 mile range by 30%. Highway speeds (15% hit?) and winter temps (20% hit?) also decrease range, so that 500 mile can be cut to 240 miles when factoring all of the above. That being said, 400 EPA mile range is enough. Ideally, I'd like a car that has 210 mile range at 70 mph using only 70% battery and in winter temps so that I can drive 3 hours between stops. My GV60 was getting 160-180 in the summer when using 70% of the battery at highway speeds, so the winter would only be 120 to 150 miles.
I’m waiting to order a 2025 Silverado EV LT as soon as the orders open for them. The reason I want the big battery and something that can travel a long distance is for RV towing. They are not the best efficiency but currently they tow the furthest and if I can go about 200 miles per tow or better I would be happy
Let's say EV have a 700 miles range (I would not want to drive that long myself, about every 2 hours I want to move around, pay the "water" bill). How long would it take to charge on a level two EVSE 40 amp - 240 volts, if the battery was around 5% and you want to get to 85%?
It would depend on the energy density of the battery, but assuming currently batteries. You would probably need a 175kWh battery and efficiency of 4mi/kWh. At 40amps it would take 14.5 hours.
Good points! Agree with them. I drive now 2023 Kia Niro EV. It maxes out at 86kW so 10-80% is like 40+ minutes. I rarely take any road trips. I am in Richmond VA so the highway range is enough to get me to VA beach and back or DC and back. Few times I wish I had the EV6 but then i read on Plug Share on EA stations rarely those 800V EVs Actually get the full speed that the charger should provide. So the issue is still the charging infrastructure and its reliability and availability
Part of the emphasis on range has to do with the complete crapshow DCFC is right now. When chargers are frequently overcrowded, broken, or simply non existent..range gives you more options. Those options could be to skip a charger or go to an alternate charger. For short (er) trips it could mean not having to charge at all. With more range to play with..you can always decide to charge more often(or even stop without having to charge at all!!), if you have less range there are less options for you. Tesla access will go along way to alleviate this concern. Once Supercharger access is universal, plus more CCS stations under NEVI...I think range will not be as much of a factor as it is now
I'm not convinced that fast charging times and long range is the reason people don't want to switch. The biggest problem is misinformation along with their perception of not knowing what to expect and learning something new. Getting into a different vehicle platform like electric vehicles isn't a small thing. Buying or leasing is a commitment, and getting out of a commitment if unhappy is stressful. For average folks getting a new vehicle is kinda a special event. So when they tell you they want this laundry list of must do it reminds me of someone looking for the perfect mate. They must be perfect for me to commit. I believe over time a good number of people will start to see the real benefits of ev's especially in their daily routine that they will change slowly.
Longer range=larger batteries=more weight=lower efficiency =longer charge times=increased charge cost……it’s a race to the bottom. We have taken many long highway trips in our MY LR and never once had to wait for the car to charge. Tesla did it right in the beginning by basing battery size on human biology. They also did it right by creating a reliable, accessible charging network.
