The Bargainer Conspiracy in Tears of the Kingdom - Ft  

EDIT: I said “Izanami” but meant “Izanagi”! I done goofed. Please forgive me

It might be worth noting that in Japanese folklore, deities are able to split themselves into "bunshin" which can be more regional versions of the "source" deity or govern over specific domains. That would explain things like the goddess statues as being inhabited by Hylia's bunshin

Also, think it was a very specific choice to make us interact with the bargainers by selecting 'pray', exactly as with the goddess statues. Definitely supports your theory that the bargainers have at least a little godliness going on

Interesting properties of energy: -in botw the blue energy that power sheika tech is refered to as devine energy - furnaces make this energy by burning something underground -In TOTK we see Poes are spirits that share the same blue hue -Pues are found in the depths or underground -zonai tech had green energy unlike sheikah -ghosts who are strong enough to show a physical form are green and have green poe like things around them. -Sheikah tech was developed based around zonai tech -when link uses ultra hand the hue goes from blue to green. -both blue and green hue are spirit energy, just that green is stronger or more pure. -in TOTK we see that shrines are said to contain light to banish evil -shrines are connected to the depths thru Lightroot -inside the shrine in the chamber, we see the statues have floating green hue symbols that is turned into a light ball and given to link -So you can make light out of green spirit energy. -Raoru is the sage of light -Raoru then can manipulate spirit energy then, allowing him to seal Ganon by converting his energy into light, like the shrines. -lightroot possibly process poes into shrines so they can become stronger and then turned into light. -this is why shrines in the sky need to be fetched with stones, which are crystalized spirit energy. -This light link recieves is used to gain "essence" aka hearts or stamina with statues -statues are able to infuse link with light(spirit energy) to increase his own in the form of hearts and stamina. That's what's called "essence. -Goddess and bargainer statues can manipulate "essence". -when the bargainer grants you a heart his eyes glow blue, since he collects Poes that are blue, so he spent a lot more of his energy since blue is weaker. -Bargainers come in large and small statue versions like the goddess ones -Bargainers statues can have their essence or spirit split with the eyes. -bargainers becomes stronger and award more stuff the more of them link finds. -godess statues of springs become stronger by helping the mother statue. -bargainers can speak thru godess statues. -Statues seam to be mediums for sentient higher being essence to communicate. -Essence can be split like with light and pieces of the statues. -we see three types of statues, godess, bargainer and demon statue. -godesses need light, bargainers poes, and demon statue essence and rupees. -demon statue gets rupees out of it. -blupees are a type of satori -Blupees are a type of spirit -when you hit blupees they generate rupees. -they're seems to be a link between spirits, fairies and rupees. -satori armor let's you exchange losing rupees instead of essence aka hearts -malice takes hearts away -gloom takes heart containers away -gloom is stronger malice - malice is physical negative emotion, like gratitude crystal where the opposite. -malice takes low essence and gloom takes essence momentarily. -aka malice weakens spirit energy. -Light and essence are resistant against malice. since you don't lose essence permanently(heart containers) -malice and gloom is weak to sacred power. -gloom is weak in lightroots -lightroot shine stronger light Stronger light still is then sacred power -sundalions have sacred power -sacred power is said to be from the sun. -Sundelions nullefy malice -sacred power is stronger essence which is stronger light.

Midnas left eye in the original release (GameCube) cries a tear that breaks a mirror. Interlopers have been confirmed to be twilight, and here we have the same situation. Plus seeing he twilight princedss manga, they are prob gearing up for twilight reveal

50:25 the discussion here makes me think of Kilton, the monsters are simply misunderstood now! We need him to keep educating the people of Hyrule.

Probably doesn't mean much, but adding to the theory, the person in Ocarina of Time who collects the Poes in Hyrule Castle Town in the adult time also has one eye, and is all cloaked and hooded.

I havent scanned the comments so maybe someone has already said this... but the moodra (sp?)/fierce deity from the earth temple looks awfully like a red skinned zonai... if your theory of Hylia stands, it makes me think the legend of zelda is so much deeper than it appears. We arent playing a "good" vs "evil" game... its a game of nature; the constant struggle for balance. Reminds me of the phrase "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". At some point, the 3rd eye has become blind and we can only see with 2, making everything look like a duality, rather than a complicated struggle with a history lost in emotion and pride.

The bargainers set reminds me of the Poe merchant in Ocarina of Time.

17:10 The ferry ride is a reference Charon the Ferryman who carries souls across the river styx.

Currently at 17 minute mark. Don't know if this will be mentioned later in the video, but to this date I've have never seen someone make the observation that the patterns found on the depths set are the same patterns imprinted on the Dark Clumps dropped by Gloom Spawns.

i know its a very small detail, but demise has a scar on his forehead from where the sealing stake was driven in, which if you're trying to connect him to the depiction of the fierce diety Yama would be where the third eye is, tying into the idea of Hylia usurping his eyes.

0:43 This comment just made me realise there is an overlap here with Dark Souls III's storytelling, where we are told the world is converging and collapsing in on itself. Mechanically, this presents itself as the player encountering many items, npcs, enemies and areas from previous entries in the series. Similarly, we have the referential amiibo armour sets in TotK's depths (plus the surface world Misko quests), the return of classic foes such a gleeok, gohma and gibdos, as well as the thematic similarities to Ocarina of Time's storyline - not to mention the plethora of easter eggs that have carried over from BotW's world. Obviously, this is a case of game designers wanting to reincorporate the best elements from their prior efforts into their newer projects, but it's interesting how these two series have attempted to reconcile this with the in-game lore in a similar fashion, where I feel most games would simply forgo any explanation.

Since we're talking comparative mythology, I think the "Bargainers as husks of Hylia's divinity" reminds me of the concept of Qlipphoth in Kabbalah, which are often interpreted as broken or unfinished aspects of reality, bereft of vitality and the spark of divinity. Maybe they were once just the discarded divine regalia of Hylia, but through the consumption of Poes, grew into an independent entity with its own agenda.

I loved this! Not sure how this fits into any of your bargainer theories at all, but one of the yiga notebooks in the depths says something along the lines of 'I was told that a strange voice echoes around them night after night, and if a member gets too close, they lose their soul' in reference to the bargainer statues.

Personally I've always viewed demise as natural malice and chaos existed prior to the golden goddess's but when the goddess's came and created everything including life it also gave the malice and chaos a conscious of its own that is driven by it's instinct. So it's not that he has any reason to hate the goddess's really it's just an instinct that drives him well that and these 3 things came in after you have just been doing your thing forever and go no you can't do that anymore. That would probably make me pretty mad especially if the things they did caused for demise to be destroyed or sealed I feel it's justified.

I think in the opening of Skyward Sword it's said Demise attacked the surface in his lust for the Triforce.

Slowly realizing the scale of these statues was a really cool moment, it initially freaked me out a little.

5:45 i always viewed it as a lord Voldemort Horcrux situation where Hylia's pieces of her soul are in the statues but each fragment can be autonomous

You guys are a joy to listen to. I hope to hear more from you all soon!

I loved this discussion series, as well as that recent discussion video you posted about TotK content declining in popularity. Just feels nice to have some Zelda content that is more off-the-cuff dialogue between creator’s passionate about the series compared to the curated video essay style that’s a bit oversaturated on the platform, it’s a nice change of pace. Plus, now I have some more creators to check out! Would love to see more topics covered in this format if you can find the time to gather a panel of creators.

The vibe I got while playing is that tears of the Kingdom shows Hilia to be a fase god. It's always been the bargainer statue underneath. Every prayer and every sacrifice has been paying homage to that entity while thinking it was it was really the goddess.

Considering the golden goddesses could simple leave the mortal plane and leave behind the most powerful objects in existence says a lot about their spiritual power and magnificence. I'm suuuure that Hylia "shedding her divinity" would result in multiple forms. For one, I believe SS Zelda was the one true Hylia reincarnation. Every subsequent Zelda simply carries that Zelda's divine blood. Like a spiritual residue which, like the triforce being divine residue of the three golden goddesses, would still be QUITE a lot of force. So I think the Hylia "mother" statues possess at least a small amount of residual spirit energy from Hylia herself, and all statues that take the form of Hylia can at the very least channel her. Especially considering allllll of items we've had in the series that contain the power of the goddesses. The orbs in Wind Waker, the spiritual stones in Ocarina of Time, the flames in Skyward Sword. These Gods have left behind so much of their spirit, who knows if any of it was corrupted in the process?

Important thing to note is that the eyes of only the Great Abandoned Mine bargainer statue were sealed away. All the other bargainer statues were untoched and are able to perform their duties without any issues. The case with Plateau Bargainer statue is quite similar to what happened to the forgotten temple statue, neither of which could fulfill their roles of sending poes to the afterlife/ amplifying Link's being respectively. Also, when we first talk to the bargainer statue in Lookout Landing, they say they can't fulfill their role of sending poes to the afterlife since coming to the surface. The solution to which is Link acting as a intermediary. Which begs the question why was there that bargainer statue in the water in the plateau. Maybe that has something to do with why the eyes of that specific bargainer statue were sealed. Maybe like the horned statue that specific bargainer statue offered items to people just as Link is given in totk instead of performing his duties in the depths.

Thank you for such in-depth, fascinating conversation. Please stop saying "here's some food for thought" and it's golden 🙂I feel like i'm listening to a self-help audio book when you say that.

The face at the back of bargainers is most likely a very angry bokoblin. It specifically has the triangular but pig-like snout and the wide mouth with fangs at the corners. The eyes are a bit too close together and very angry or malicious unlike how the bargainers present themselves. Go to the forgotten temple bargainer and shoot as many giant brightbloom seeds as you need and try to observe it from above, below and the sides.

I also wonder if the cursed statue that you can trade life force with is related the bargainer statues, as the trading aspect mixed with the life force aspect makes it seem like a mix of the two types of statue. Also if a statue can “go rogue” that means there must be a degree of separate from Hylia.

I always assumed that since the Bargainers were found near Zonai ruins, they were just a god of spirits worshipped by the Zonai

Am I the only one who feels like Totk main quest ending sequence was cut short/ actually not finished? Like what happened to the Yiga and master Kooga who states that he’s going to be with the demon king after you defeat him for the last time? Why were the monsters collecting Zonite? What happened to the sage of shadow (which in my opinion was meant to be impa/Impa’s daughter). Like it would make sense that Rarru and Zelda couldn’t beat Gannondorf cause they were a sage short of being able to actually imprison him. Also I would have loved a better final boss sequence, the fight against Gannondorf doesn’t feel like he’s anywhere near the powerhouse who brought Hyrule to its knees imo. Also also rly wished Teba had been safe of wind. And rly disappointed that the Great Deku Tree wasn’t given more of a role/a temple esp considering how powerful and important that entity is. Still absolutely loved the game, just wished they had finished/added a couple more dungeons (a forest and shadow one to be specific) and that they had fleshed out Gannondorf and Hylia more).

“The moon reflects the light of the sun”. Just like how the bargainer/horned statues can bestow heart containers and stamina vessels, moonlight isn’t as bright or potent as the original source. Hylia bestows health and stamina while the others have limited strength in that field. 10:56

Hearing you constantly have Izanagi (life) and Izanami (death) switched around made me shake my head every time since I have a fascination with Japanese Folklore so I know the difference between the two! You even were saying He when you were talking about Amaterasu coming from Izanagi’s eye despite saying the name Izanami! Luckily you kept it consistent so I didn’t get confused, just had to remember you had the two switched around.

Does anyone else think the back of the bargainer statues and the shape of their bodies very much resemble the four giants from Majora’s Mask?

Considering the idea of this being the god of death, it would seem pertinent that many events so far have included the many stages of grief. The Imprisoned demonstrates denial, in that it denies its imprisonment, constantly trying to leave the Sealed Grounds. Demise himself has flat out stated his hatred and anger. Next on the list, is of course, Bargaining. The concept of offering something in exchange for something else. Basically, if I give you these armor sets/items/weapons, you give me poes. Maybe it believes that if it can amass enough poe souls sent to the afterlife, it can return to its former place as a god of death.

Absolutely enjoyed this video. However, I do wanna share my opinions on the more cultural-religious side of the lore. (Btw, this is just my theory and stuff, so it might not be accurate but it can be helfpul) - BTW I'LL BE SPOILING SOME OF THE STORY SO YEAH A lot of the concepts in LoZ tend to take inspiration from a lot of Eastern beliefs, tho as an Asian myself, we don't always call it Eastern. We say Dharmic beliefs because Dharmic beliefs always talk about "many branches of the same tree of truth" in a way. As a Hindu-Buddhist agnostic mess that I am, I can talk about certain things that can be tied to the lore in a way. In Hinduism, there's a story about the Sapta-Matrika who are known as the 7 Mothers, who are said to be "Shakti". Shakti is often referred to as energy and it's always symbolised by a female deity. These 7 Mothers are lead by a single stronger deity who tends to be the source or origin of this power. In some stories, it's Adishakti (the Supreme Goddess) or Lord Shiva. In Eastern beliefs, we believe that every light has a dark and vice versa. Although, the dark doesn't necessarily have to be evil in a way. Mirroring the 7 Mothers and the Supreme Deity, there's also the Ashta-Matrikas, the 8 Mothers known to bring calamity and disease, although being worshipped as protectors. They are not "evil" evil although their powers can be associated with evil. Here the lines are blurred regarding their powers. In TOTK, I can say that the Bargainer statue could be the mirror of the Hylia statue and is not necessarily evil. The Bargainer statue itself states that it doesn't really see good or bad (other than immediately sucking the soul outta the Yiga clan haha) - Also, we can consider the 7 Gods of Luck in Japanese culture who can be traced back to Hinduism as well. Plus, in a lot of Eastern beliefs, Gods can break themselves apart into multiple different smaller deities that are set to protect or govern different parts of the place. We have a set of 3 Goddesses called Tridevi, who are said to be the energies that aided in creating the universe and the 3 powers combined can be extremely strong. These Tridevi are also known to originate from the Adishakti mentioned earlier as well. In TOTK, the 3 Goddess statues at each of the spring talk about the Lost Temple statue falling down. This isn't a strange concept to me as well. We have stories of how devotees of certain Gods, would have to journey to the smaller deities places of worship first and they are then guided to go restore or get help from the main God. There's also Indian movies that use this concept so you can check them out if you're interested. (The main movie I can think of is the movie Devi) The Bargainer statue really reminds me of Lord Yama, who's a deity ruling over the underworld and he's basically the God of Death. Although he is the god of death, he's not evil. In certain stories, he's literally another form of Lord Shiva. Another interesting fact, the whole thing about the eyes and looking for the eye resonates with me too. In our culture, some of us use golden/silver eyes on deity statues. It's also used a lot on deity statues, particularly female deities, that don't necessarily have a form. So certain statues aren't sculpted and don't always look like a person, these eyes will be used on them. Sometimes, the golden eyes will also be seen on neem trees because neem plants are associated with the Goddess as well. If these eyes are taken off or stolen, it is said that bad calamities will happen and the eyes must be restored to reverse the problems. Whoever brings back the eyes tend to be blessed. To be honest, there's a lot more that I can share about these things and how I can link them to the lore of TOTK. Though sadly, I've never had the chance or opportunity of playing the other games in the Zelda franchise other than watching videos about them. But so far, this is what I got that can help us make more sense of the story. Of course, these are just my opinions hahaha

I know I'm late to the party here, but I just had a thought - if the Bargainers are all affiliated with major Hylia statues, where did the one in the entryway to the Great Plateau and the one Josha has come from? I can definitely see the Lookout Landing statue having been under the castle/Castletown (maybe the temple in Castletown?), but what about the other one? If their association to the goddess statues is so important, where are the goddess statues associated with those two?

I actually hc that the Bargainer Statues are an early depiction of the Fierce Deity. I know, I'm most likely wrong. But I really like the idea, so I'm going with it.

Just starting the video but first thought was as the lady under lookout point says, all light produces a shadow. For anything good you’ll have an evil to balance it.

Moxie's video on this topic is great as well, looking forward to more speculative theory vids from y'all Also negative money does exist, it's called debt with interest Super cool discussion, the one who holds the wheel also has 5 "sage avatars" or "5 moon children" with blank eyes to bring it all together

How better to return to divinity than with a broken world where no one would remember your injustices.

"Din created the red earth" an oot quote I thought of wile watching the earth temple part. This is a detail I think many people overlooked in btow, the Xenoblade set. (I haven't seen any content on Xenoblade for over 3-4 years so I may gat both major and minor details incorrect) Isn't it strange that an armor set from a game series about people who an alien god like relic to transcend time and space to become gods is in a Zelda game? The game that the set is from literally has a cloud barrier (the cloud sea) separating the old world from there own, a concept seen in Skyward sword, wind waker, and of course tears of the kingdom. The games even have the theme of finally stoping the cycle of death and rebirth. I mean does anyone truly know the origins of the golden goddess and there intentions. Other than that I don't have much else to say, maybe someone who actually played the games will have more details but I may be entirely wrong about the story connections too scene I don't actually know much about the games. [Edit]- I forgot to mention that Hylia and demise parallel each other in design and probably even origins. [Edit 2]- I finally remembered what else I was going to say. In spirit tracks, the dark real (a separate place from were demise came from) isn't below the surface but instead far above it (as seen right before the final fight against Malidus). Far above the surface of the earth irl of course is the endless dark abyss of outer space which is further shown in game with the black hole in the background.

The Bargainer is a morally grey being that controls life, death, and reincarnation similar to the only other four eyed deity in the game: Satori. The Bargainer and Satori could be more powerful than Hylia, because they watch over all of life instead of only beings that worship them, which is why Bargainer statues and Blupees appear on both the surface and depths. Hylia wants order and peace, which is why she reincarnated the same souls to do the same jobs. The Bargainer is okay with a chaotic world, which is why it allows spirits to pass on into the afterlife, so that any soul can be reincarnated.

The Tunic of the Depths is very similar to the outfits worn by the Garo in Majora's Mask. EDIT: I hate to bring this up, but Twilight Princess did have a 'flipped' version where everything was turned around (and it sold the most), so bringing up left/right in regards to referencing it might be a bad idea without prior clarification.

Have you looked at the top of the tapestry above Sonia and Rauru? It has a 3 eyed things above it. Also sorry if its mentioned further in the video Im at the 40 minute mark.

So of the Confirmed Gods that were in the Series; there was the original set (Hylia, Farore, Nayru, Din), the Invader (Demise), the Traveler (Wind Fish), Termina's creators (The four Giants), The Ocean King (Oshus), The Horse God (Malanya), and the Horned God (unknown) Of these Farore, Nayru, and Din had some kind of relationship with Demise before he came to their world, Hylia and the Horned God apparently knew each other before he came to the world, and both the Wind Fish and Ocean King are Whales who are implied to know each other. Bushin are basically confirmed (Horse God, and Wind Fish have indicated it) with Incarnation (Coming down in a Godly form ala Demise and Hylia's first fight) and Reincarnation (Broken fragments returning to a whole in a new life) being separate things that the gods are known to do.

Look at Link to the Past - and the fact Link Wished to "undo Ganon's evil" and also brought people back to life - could that have reset things - merged the timelines?

i have a question i havent seen anywhere yet, why do the light roots in the underground look like dragon claws? google keeps telling me theyre trees and roots but ive been riding the dragons around and from up high those arent trees, those are dragon claws. you can even see the scales. i think theres a lot more dragons in this game then we think

Your theory of Demise being connected with/being the god of Death makes sense when you consider his curse. If he has power over the passage of death, then he would have the power to curse the Link and even the rest of the world to redo this cycle over and over and over again. Hylia broke the death cycle by allowing herself to reincarnate, so then when Demise is defeated he gives her what she wanted by completely disregarding the afterlife by making everyone reincarnate forever. The only thing I wonder tho with Demise as a connection with the Bargainer is that the Bargainer is pretty neutral. Plus he now wants souls to go to the afterlife. Possibly…the Bargainer is the god of Death who Hylia made the deal with for her to reincarnate. Demise then is a servant of him or perhaps his son or something. He is angry that his king or father or whatever would go against his purpose and so he goes against the gods and begins to wage war against them. I’m more siding with the idea of Demise being his son, because then he would also possibly have his power over death. Anyway food for thought! Great video! Ps. I thought of this also, but the back of The Bargainer statue also reminds me of the 4 Giants in Termina. Just the way his arms connect to the head and the nose is very similar.

Maybe the bargainer was created by hylia and demise both giving up their divinity to be reincarnated. Their powers became the two faced god of death that does not distinguish between good and evil. That is why it can use the other staues. Maybe the face on the back is what the monsters interact with, and the yiga, being traitors have no protection from it.

Any chance the Zonai became the Reiki. Demise does have some similarities to the Reiki forms. And demise may have had a third eye in his forehead where the dealing place now is. And the zonai all disappeared, where'd they go? The links with the bargainers, with dark link tunic, and the imagery. Did the zonai try to steal the triforce, as the interloper are depicted in twilight Princess?

Lots of goosebumps on this one!

i haven't watched the whole thing yet but i want to drop two things into the discussion. the first is the idea that everything in the zelda timeline that happened before anything in botw or totk is legend, so passed down from a bunch of generations and possibly noncanon as it could be fairytales. secondly, since everything established about zelda divinity and creation before is subject to change, what if the bargainers are a race of gods that took no stance in the battle between light and dark (Hylia and Ganon respectively) and instead took the divine highground of saying their duty was to protect the cycle of birth, life, and death? TL;DR: in the divine battlegrounds you have the goddess of light, Hylia, fighting for order, the god of darkness, Ganon, fighting for chaos, their "avatars" or whatever (Zelda and Ganondorf respectively), as well as the gods and goddesses of the other races (if they exist), who, like the bargainers, all chose no side. PS: The horned statue is cool because it shows that mortals can heavily mess with the "divine balance" as he has obtained the power to tamper with spirit, even though he was just a mortal (I think), but he doesn't really weigh in on the bigger picture.

Have any of you watched 'Stranger Things?' My first impression of The Depths was that I was in 'The Upside Down.'

Bargainer in the depths possibly being the one bargained with by the 3 goddesses to hold Demise and his demon horde under the surface to begin with? Maybe he was with them as a 5th god (4th being Hylia) and was cast out for creating Demise and held under the surface with him. Just spewing ideas.

Im early in the watch. But did anyone notice the dragon art on the depths armor teased the ending of the games story

Isn't the spirit of Hylia sealed with Demise in the Master Sword? Since he needed to consume her soul to restore himself?

The whole problem I have with timeline talks is that it just seems like hyrule got to a point in the timelines where further reincarnation of both Hylia and the Hero was taxing the system more. Why else would the master sword over years of having been forged in the flames of divinity, which should last basically forever cause the gods are still being worshipped break under the might of a raisin. Why else would zeldas abilities take specific emotional responses to pull out even the little amount of power. To me it just seems like something caused a reset. In both the lands of Hyrule, the history, as well as a coming together of races not even meant to be in the same timeline as each other. Looking at you fish and birds. Why else would Rauru claim to be founding Hyrule. The dueling peaks are still one mountain. If the land reset and the timelines merged causing that reset, it would explain how all the equipment you find through old maps are there. It would explain why certain parts of the land of Hyrule seems to move from one game to the next. If Hylia along with the three Golden Goddesses, hit that reset switch. I gotta ask why and I can think of the reason. It's gotta do with the raisin and the idea that he can be in two places at once. So if Big G keeps coming back that means the big D is still kicking somewhere... bidding his time, learning possibly from countless attempts to get free, to ruin the land and people of Hyrule. To fight against that God's he so hates. This is kinds show in BoTW with how he commandeers the Beasts and Gaurdians. He learns from a previous attempt. As far as I can remember from any of the games and please correct me if I'm wrong. He doesn't try the same strat twice. So at least a part of him still remembers. I would not be surprised of that because we see it live in action. In both BotW and Age of Calamity the hack and slash dynasty warriors game. I also have a head cannon that there is some kind of magic going on at all times so that history is much more easily forgotten.

Good stuff capt👍

I completely agree with the conclusion that Hylia and the other godesses are usurpers, if I recall correctly the world was already created, they just shaped it, easily the 4th one (the name i'm gonna give to the deity) could've been the creator of this world. I don't know if the 4th one is Demise, he could easily be an emissary, his champion, just as Link is to Hylia. Also Demise being different to the 4th one makes more sense if the void in the "tetraforce" means something, Link & Ganon's are foils (the force of power and courage) just as Hylia/Zelda & the 4th one would be. As above so below. BTW are the Kanji to Majin & Majora related in anyway?

Funny thing, if you look at the Bargainers from behind, their backs look like a giant Bokoblin face.

tho i m delta class ther a reoins i got call g level by ther preaer sis as it has to do with my rank as a godkiller

Could Hylia have given her divinity to a neutral demon in order to be able to reincarnate making him a new dark God, The Bargainer. But instead of giving him all her authority as a diety, she kept her sacred power, making him an empty god and angry at her and the rest of the gods.

The three golden godesses decended upon the chaos that was hyrule…

talking about all the Goddesses, but a one Male Godking.... makes me think of a certain people in hyrule. hmmm. something else i think is interesting to note, in the dragons tears memories, i dont think there are ANY statues of hylia visible whatsoever. just something interesting to note. for example, the Massive Goddess Statue, in the forgotten temple? is NOT where she should be in Memory 12. she should be right there, but instead, rauru and the sages are simply standing there, in her absence. one could argue that the Mother Statue is still on the Great Plateau, after her descent from skyloft, but i can see no evidence of her presence ANYWHERE in the other tears. just food for thought.

So when are we gonna discuss that the surface dwellers assumed the Zonai are gods just because they came from the heavens, instead of the Zonai being fallen angels cast down, with Rauru and some other Zonai redeeming themselves, but others not...?

Time to get out some snacks.

10/10 discussion

So Hylia may have taken the Piccolo route

26:40 As usual, not completely true. Every other version also says "Gods" and the japanese language has a singular/plural problem. Context determines whether it is singular or plural, and "gods" is a valid interpretation. Nothing was changed. The English text is correct.

i m not fo this timei m ag level eldergod and time lord hows the top grimm reaper howruns all fo lamb

How many more parts? XD

not completlie to the roda to hell is not juts pavdid by good inetoins but thos with bad innetoins to some one can do or maen good and it truns uot good but ther are times wen some one maens good wer it truns not not so good or bad but wen some onedos bad with badinetoins ye some times it will trun uor good but ther times thay do the sam and it truns uot bad cuz fo ther badinetoins but this is y it gos both ways hav a nices day

I personally don't believe they are untrue legends in the sense it's all made up. It's not all or nothing though. The zonai being a part of the Hyrule an history has been lost to tome, and it's clear no modern hylians know they existed. The Imprisoning war is mentioned only in a link to the past. There's also the aspect of an old hero, so they died at some point. Is it possible that the connection with botw and the original Zelda 1, this game covers aspects of the downfall timelines beginning. I absolutely hate the idea of the merged timelines. It's as equally reasonable or unreasonable as the idea that the things called Legends are not entirely accurate. It's also clearly shown from in game evidence that cultures in Hyrule have rewritten their history, as the gerudo refer to the Sages as heroines. Though maybe that connection isn't accurate in the Japanese language? The statues in the depths show that many races looked different back then. I prefer the idea that with all those visual connections TOTK is showing the Imprisoning war after a potential hero link was killed by Ganondorf, like a muddying of the history. There was a hero from the forest (the hero aspect) who was rewritten to be a hylian boy by future generations of hylians. And a boy would make sense when he emerged from the forest where korok children spirits live. So of course history would refer to him as both hylian and a boy. The story of him spending 7 years may also be the result of those that heard he was from the forest thinking he was a child but then meeting him and realising he is actually older. We see some memories but only those from Zelda perspective. Perhaps the aspect is from ancient Hyrule and ancient Hyrule is literally the erw of its founding. Aspect link died, as he is often portrayed to have done so (in twilight and majors/tww), having gone up against Ganondorf who was attacking the Kingdom, and the sages then Imprisoning him follows as Hyrule histories refers to. There is a reason they're called a legends. And legend doesn't mean completely made up, it Judy means potentially inaccurate. And why would the game refer to all those stories including the beginning of the Hyrule foundation being the beginning of the time of legends?! Food for thought.

LIT HOMIE

World ain't 16000 years old

Screw that! The kingdom’s tears are always the ones that princess Zelda sheds!

You this video is destroying me

I really don't want to be a hater or a troll, but I feel like this entire 4½ hour conversation was a waste of time. Nothing was discovered, hypotheses were thrown with little evidence to support them, and what evidence did exist was flimsy at best. The Imprisonned has no eyes... therefore it's the Bargainer ? Really ? Have you not mentionned its cone-shaped mouth, seal pillar, relation to the Triforce, _its lack of arms or torso_ and, if you want to argue that it *does* have arms from phase 2 onwards, the presence of a halo around its head in phase 3 ? Or the fact that Bargainers DO have eyes, 4 of them, to be exact, and how you youself mentionned they have a face in their own back ? Does the Imprisonned have that ?? No. You guys didn't address the very obvious notion that Skyward Sword may have opened a timeline split where Tears of the Kingdom may have happened, except slightly towards the end where you claim that it is in the same world as Termina, which is paradoxal since Termina rejected its Triforce as evidence by gross carvings licking the relic as an insult, as well as no mention of it anywhere in the world. If that's the same realm, then why would there be carvings of the Triforce, displayed in a religious light, everywhere in Hyrule Castle, or on Zonai tattoos ? And for the love of god, _just stop it with the Dragonbreak._ This is one feature from a completely different gaming franchise made by a completely different studio in a completely different country with a completely different culture... _with a completely different philosophy and understanding of life and cosmology,_ this is the equivalent of forcing down the sphere in the square hole just because it can pass if you squeeze hard enough. It's not meant for the square hole, it's meant for the _circle_ hole.

Oh god this was so much better before Moxie joined

😑 a lot of these theories are stretching things a bit….