The ending you proposed with him realizing his money can actually do good I thought was implied and definitley think focusing more on what Bruce Wayne can do is going to take center stage in the sequel. I think it's all there but maybe I just logically concluded that in my head. Also totally agree with your points on Joker inclusion, I love the actor playing him but it just did not feel like he was in the same movie/batman universe as the rest and it took me out of the somber tone that had ran throughout, that's my only negative for the whole movie though, still a 10/10 for me!
I thought The Batman was a refreshing superhero movie, especially after I'm so burned out on Marvel's typical formula. The weirdest part for me was Bruce going from Falcone to Alfred to get conflicting bits of exposition from both of them in two subsequent scenes. It felt like something significant was cut there and it made the exposition feel extra clunky. Overall I loved this movie, though! Definitely top marks.
If I’m thinking of the same moment, I thought the point was supposed to be that Falcone was twisting the truth to fit his own evil-ass perspective and trying to manipulate Bruce, where Alfred was telling the truth, still from his perspective ofc but sharing the actual truth of what happened in the past. That’s just how I took it though and I see how it’s a bit jarring, the Alfred scene also came off a little weird to me the first time, for different but ultimately similar reasons. I felt the first time that it was trying too hard to justify Thomas (and by extension the concept of a “moral or ethical billionaire/millionare/capitalist/bourgeoise figure) as a “good guy,” and while I still kinda feel that way on like a weird, deeper, leftist analysis level, when I saw it a second time I felt like the scene just served more of a narrative function to make it clear that the audience isn’t necessarily *intended* to dislike Thomas and that Falcone was the ultimate evil in the situation. But anyways what I’m getting at is that we probably both felt weirdly about this scene because it indeed may have been inserted into the film, or shuffled around, or otherwise somewhat contrived, to make the film run a little smoother. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with that but based on my perspective and yours it feels like they probably could have done it a little better. Idk tho im fried
@@clag1109 yeah that's exactly what my thoughts are! I just think Bruce at least should have wrestled with Falcone's lies for maybe... A minute? Something? Instead we just get two versions of the story back to back and the conflict is insta-resolved. Idk tho I'm baked.
I really loved this movie mainly because it just felt like a really good Batman graphic novel. I don’t think the comparison between tdk and this is really fair since they’re both very different movies. I don’t really see how it’s a watered down version of it either. The only similarity in the stories I see is that they have bombs at the end of the movie. I like how the stakes didn’t rise much throughout it. It feels more of a personal story about Batman to me than one that needs big grandiose plot twists, and I don’t really need many badass moments or anything. Nadia kept bringing up the mcu which I’m super glad it didn’t feel like that those since they’re a bit formulaic at this point for my liking so I’m glad it’s something different. The third act is probably my least favorite part of it since it kind of feels like it came out of nowhere and seemed a tad generic in terms of being a superhero movie. I’m fine with it though since it led into his ending monologue which I really loved because it’s like the final knot on a really nicely wrapped Batman story that sums up the Batman character really well. As for the runtime It didn’t feel like 3 hours to me but that’s probably because I love Batman so much so the more I see the better. I’m just super stoked to see where they go in the sequel and how they can improve on the things that need some work and expand on the things that worked really well. I think since he learned that he needs to be a symbol of hope at the end that will be developed and shown in the sequel. And about the super serious tone but it’s also super goofy I think that might have been intentional. I think the movie takes its self so seriously because it’s meant to be through the eyes of Batman who is taking this all so seriously when it’s a bunch of goofy over the top criminals. Pattinson and Reeves have said that it’s a really silly thing that this guy dresses up as a bat and fights crime. Anyways I hope that makes sense and I liked hearing both of your thought on it.
@@ramennoodles7328 I felt that lmao, i always write way too much but nah i totally agree with a good amount of what you’re saying here about the tone and how this movie is different from the mcu, had similar thoughts when i heard them talk about it i haven’t finished the vid yet but i also see some of where they are coming from and feel like they may have just went in with the wrong expectations, which happens sometimes i just went in expecting it to be alright, wanting it to be good and while i think it failed in a couple areas (cough*catwoman*cough) and im very freaked out by a lot of the reception its been getting (people seeming to idolize batman when the entire climax of the movie is people idolizing the riddler and committing a mass shooting?!) its overall one of of the best batman stories ive personally experienced, and one of my favorite batman films batman returns ftw tho in my opinion
It was so dark when they punched all those babies. Definitely watch The Dark Knight. I’m interested to see a first time viewers reaction after seeing The Batman especially.
I love you two. I think this shows a great level of respect between two individuals who clearly love and care for one another. This was eye-opening and informative. I just watched the movie, and enjoyed it, but I can see all the points laid out here. Keep doing what you're doing. This was an excellent, honest analysis.
For me, The Batman was easily my favorite Batman movie. It's the first live action movie to actually capture the character from the comics. It kind of felt like you had some contradictory points in your review, sometimes saying it was too serious and then criticizing the goofy bits, or talking about how it was "one note" and then questioning why the subtext wasn't explicitly brought up more. I, personally, have way more problems with The Dark Knight's script (and funny enough I think I feel the length in The Dark Knight more than I did in The Batman). The Batman was exactly what I wanted it to be, and I genuinely think it's just behind Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse in terms of my favorite superhero movie of all time.
How was it like in the comics when he doesn't have any of his gadgets but the grappling gun, and his investigation don't lead to anything he isn't even able to catch the Riddler by himself or save the city, he's literally irrelevant in his own movie, just because the movie took inspiration from Long Halloween doesn't mean he's just like the comics. He's not. It's a failed attempt to make Batman like in the comics.
I like your analysis, it feels like I just went out of the cinema and I am dinning McDonalds talking with friends. I agree with you in three things: this movie is the most stylized version I have seen in real action, Bruce Wayne should have had a more contrasting personality and the plot is not as complex as one would have though with Riddler as the enemy. But I disagree with you guys in one thing, I don't think this movie is pretentious or really serious, it's just the consequence of maximizing the stylization. I think it was full of puns as well. I would like to point some thoughts out that might change your perspective of the movie. - Gotham doesn't have a single shot with sun. Even in the final scene where there is daylight, the day is heavily cloudy. The darkness is exaggerated. Everyone is corrupt, the city is rotten to the absolute core. - Batman looks scary, derranged but at the same time ridiculous. I could really agree with the police in not letting him investigate the scenes of a murder. This is the representation of a tortured vigilante with a big unresolved trauma. He cannot hold a conversation like a normal person. He looks nothing like a hero in the film. - Catwoman is also ridiculous in a good and bad way. Not only she lives in an apartment with five cats, we see her drinking a glass of milk, she speaks flirtatious and moves as if it she was always on a catwalk. - The penguin gets cuffed on hands and feet, making him walk like a penguin. I'm sure I missed a lot of details. But the point I want to get at, is that this movie is the result of turning all essential elements of batman to the max, and if you look it that way, it becomes more enjoyable in my opinion. Cheers!
Also your dogs made this episode great haha. My wife and I just got a cockapoo puppy and he is vengeance, and would like to destroy some evil today, nightblood style!
Wow. They have such right opinions. Even though I actually watched it twice in theatres I 100% agree to all their criticisms. I'm not sure if I watched it for the actual movie or just the sound design though if I'm being honest😂 (that car start up scene goes harrddd) I also felt like there's alot of moments in the film that were intentionally or unintentionally funny (I honestly can't tell) but me and my boyfriend we're just cackling like lunatics the entire film (luckily no one was sat near us though 😂) Edit: Also even though I found so many moments in the film to be funny (probably unintentionally tbh) I agree with the one-noteness of the entire film, not my idea but I heard that the addition of a Robin-type character would probably fix that. Also I'm not like a huggeee fan of the comics, but I've read enough I think to know that there's a sort of "detective/noir" vibe throughout so thats something I really actually liked about the film how stylized it was and showed the detective side from the comics more so than other batman movies have done in the past :-)
I agree with most of your criticisms, even though I really enjoyed the movie. I think what Jake said about a SpiderMan 2 type sequel would be the perfect direction they could take, and that the Batman with other more interesting characters would have been much more enjoyable. Like the old cartoons, Batman is always the serious, humorless, almost nihilistic leader of the Justice League, but he has funny characters like Green Lantern or the Flash to liven things up and support his antics. I loved the style of the world and hope they can fix some of the weaknesses of the story to really land a successful sequel. Love y'all's commentaries btw, keep up it up!
The thing about Batman as a character is that he himself isn't enough to be compelling. The Nolan batman focuses more on that character, but not as Batman, but as Bruce Wayne. By removing Bruce Wayne as a character, Batman removes most of his flaws. Bruce Wayne is the one who has to struggle with putting his duty over romance and relationships. Batman himself is a great detective, fighter, and symbol, he is nearly perfect. DC in general does a better job than Marvel with villains, especially with Batman villains. So I think Batman is allowed to be more perfect if placing his villains as a foil is compelling enough, and even without that those characters can be interesting, but that's a different movie (like John Wick). I thought this take on Bruce Wayne was interesting because it lends a lot of opportunities for that Bruce Wayne to change and grow and have problems like the Nolan one for future films. I liked the very homemade aspect of Batman's gadgets and how early he was in his career which offered a lot of opportunities for growth. Overall the setting, world, premise, and all that but the overall movie fell short of that set-up.
Personally I was missing so much a distinction or a sort of contrast between Bruce Wayne and The Batman personas, it was a huge deal in my opinion... Other than that, everything was extremely good, all the way to the music, filming, colors, acting, etc. solid 8/10
I dont get that point, Bruce Wayne the persona basically doesnt exist in this movie. The distinction between him and batman is usually a creation meant to throw people off the fact that Bruce Wayne is Batman, in this movie Battinson is too reckless and obsessed with crime fighting to create the persona we know as Bruce Wayne. So I get wanting to see more Bruce Wayne but the criticism that the movie somehow failed at distinguishing him from Batman is weird ,cause the movie never tries and purposefully shows us why the contrast doesnt exist
I'm so jealous of you. I dont have HBO Max so I have to wait a few months to watch it five more times 🤣🤣 As the biggest Batman fan I know, I absolutely ADORED the movie. It was everything I could have wanted. Personally in my top 3 favorite movies and definetly favorite Batman movie. I understand the criticisms you have, although I dont have them. The humor was very subtle, and there wasn't a lot of it but I loved that. I am also biased because I am a huge DC and Batman fan. Based on you criticisms, I do think you will like The Dark Knight movies more. Cant wait for that video!
Neither brilliant nor boring, it is probably the most okay movie I've ver seen, not a single thing to dislike, but not a single thing to really like (except for sound, cinematography and score). 6 / 10.
Should have been titled "Woman Being Interrupted by Man". I would have liked to hear more of what Nadia had to say without her being cut off every time, it got so annoying that I didn't finish the video.
I really enjoyed your guys' discussion, I also thought the screenplay was the main issue. IT was extremely messy and not tightly constructed or engaging, especially with exposition and character development. The main reason I was looking forward to this movie was because it was advertised as being different than the Nolan trilogy, so I definitely enjoyed the new Batman interpretation and different style of visuals, but in the end the screenplay still has to be engaging and convincing no matter what visual style you go for. More movie reviews please!!!! Book reviews are always fun as well but I also love that you guys analyze movies very thoroughly
I agree! There are multiple instances where characters call out how insane or goofy the circumstances or characters of the movie are. I think the style and camp-ness was very deliberate
Watch the Dark Knight! lol. Fight the good fight. I can't get my gf to watch the Dark Knight either. Love this breakdown. I've talked to a few people who were saying that this is the best batman movie. I enjoyed it, but I loved the dark knight. Nolan's ability to create tension and just stress you out, then release it with big "cool sh*t" moments... it makes a long movie fly by. The Pattinson and Kravitz chemistry was intense. They were definitely hooking up behind the scenes. haha The Riddler never really felt like a threat to the public until the very end. He was only hunting down bad guys, so for most of the movie, I was just like... let him do his thing. Great review guys 🤘
Ending fell flat for me. Overall the plot did nothing interesting. A very standard and bland police/crime story stretched out too long with little payoff. There was a scene where batman gets over powered and a bad guy raises his gun, point black, to batman's face. But instead of shooting, waits until catwoman comes in to save the day. Am I being overly cynical, or was that just lame?
Boring? This was my favourite Batman movie, including the Dark Knight. It was also the first batman movie where I actually liked Batman as a Character even more than his villains. And no shade to Paul Dano he was fantastic!
Honestly i'm tierd of Marvel i grew up watching each movie and wating for the next instalment, ethier on tv or the cinema i try to watch them all, and as a kid they seem perfect yet after finishing endgame i had bitterswet thaste in My mouth cause it should have ended Rigth there but i knew they have another phase just in the corner and everthing since i has feel empty to me ironicly i try to watch moonkingth the " marvel Batman " and trougth is cool but is not doing anyting knew or interesting, witch is a problem cause the moonkingth comics try to be more expremetal whit the concept of superhéroes but the show has play the character in the most predictible way and all movies and shows have felt the same way to the point that triying to rewatch the movies i realise most of them are dead ends in the over arcking plot and the charcters do develope but in a slow and almost inprovise way, i still like some of them but honestly i don't see them as good as i did By the way thats no to Say that dc universe was better the snyderverse is an interesting but deply flaw universe, is just to me at least the movies that are more remacable of both arent the ones have big impacts and "forshadowing" done in this franshise ( that is alude to a charcter or event just in name and don't ad any substance ) and more in the more personal stories tha use the media to explore characters in more Unique escenarios, thats why Even if flaw i like this movie and thing is important, to not have evreything in the same old fórmula
In my opinion I loved this movie just as much as I loved the Dark Knight but I can understand and agree with some of the criticisms you guys made with the movie I think jake made some good points about the riddler and how despite him only killing the corrupt politicians and showing the corruption in Gotham city still have him decide to flood the city and kill multiple innocent people just to remind the audience that he's still the villain although I did really enjoy him as a character and found him to be entertaining but I still really liked your guys take on this film and I look forward to seeing you guys review the Dark Knight trilogy!
Batman searched for a girl called Annika and found her, but chose to ignore her to follow the catwomen. Can anyone explain to me what that was all about?
YES, i appreciate that you guys looked through all of the stylization and saw how threadbare the actual story is. batman is totally only fighting symptoms, not the corruption that was arguably the only thing the movie actually illustrated. look forward to your reactions to the dark knight!!
The donating money thing is countered in the movie coz when his father did it, the corrupt officials in Gotham all chewed into it. The people it was meant to help never really got anything. That's the point of the movie
But that’s because the father died. I don’t think it would have gotten into the wrong hands if he survived. Since Batman is, well, Batman, I think he can donate the money and still be Batman so that he can help in more than one way
As a big batman fan, I absolutely hated the car chase and one of my biggest gripes with a movie I otherwise enjoyed. Batman would never engage in a car chase that would endanger that many innocent lives, especially not this batman. I also don't think this is a realistic batman, batman can never be realistic. It is, however, the most comic book accurate in terms of characterisation and has the best references.
I think there is definitely a chance for the Matt Reeves Batman to properly compete and maybe surpass TDK batman once more of the sequels come out. But I agree, while I like this movie more, The Dark Knight is definitely the better movie. Also, the money thing doesn't work for me personally. Firstly because it's been established in the movie that while there are good people in the city, Gotham is very corrupt and will be used for evil. And secondly, this is what happened in The Dark Knight Returns with a retired batman realizing he needs to come back. And lastly, this isn't an origin story, but it's still a batman when he's figuring things out and seeing him hang up the cape this early wouldn't work for me. But yes, the parts about him using his money etc should definitely be expanded upon in a sequel.
Still in the beginning of the video, but the movie lost hella steam at the end. I did love how sharp the edge was in this movie. Pattinson was so dark and emo and its great.
Definitely watch the Nolan movies, just other than me being a Nolan fan, those were the one that got me in the DC movies. Unpopular opinion-Dark Knight Rises was my favourite one😅.
You got me disagreeing from the getgo. Nolan trilogy is pretty one-note and monotone. The Batman had way more humour than all those three movies. Scenes like thumb-drive, Martinez, Penguin swaddling, etc all made me laugh. I'm glad Batcat love didn't work out and they went their seperate ways. They had tension but they didn't suddenly decide to give up their lives to sit in a cafe or something like Christopher Nolan did with these characters. This was accurate to their dynamic. You can't criticise this movie for "things happening one after another" when TDK does the exact same thing. Joker does something, magically 15 steps ahead of everyone and nothing develops, outside of Harvey. Bale's Batman is incredibly stale and one-dimensional. At least the atmosphere and the more characters in The Batman develop. From Bruce himself, to Selina, to Falcone, to Riddler, to Gotham itself. Everything changes. Constantly. As if TDK doesn't have the most tedious Nolanish expositions and dialogues and pretentious speeches that spoonfeeds the themes because Nolan doesn't know subtlety. At least The Batman knows how to be low-key. Also I don't know why you think Riddler was right in his actions when he, you know, tortures and brutally kills a man and leaves his mutilated body for his child to find. Seek help, Man. Also we know Gotham was locked on with water. From the opening scenes. It's on the mayoral debate how the Renewal money built those sea walls. And just like everything Renewal-related, Riddler crushed them. It seems to me you're way too used to Nolan spoonfeeding info in a direct nonsensical manner so you didn't get the ending definitely implies Bruce is gonna help with his money as well as his Alter ego. Your ending is way too on-the-nose and silly. Batman hanging up his mantle?? The garbage Christian Bale played in TDK has influenced your perception of this character too much. Batman is an addiction, Brucr can never give it up. Also he acknowledges he's done both good and bad. Him saving the people from the floods, giving hope to the woman he carried to paramedics perfectly show that. You wholly missed the point of the movie. Overall, I would have taken your whinings more seriously, if you weren't constantly fanboying over TDK despite it having the same flaws but bigger. Just because the movie doesn't have Marvel one-liners doesn't mean it has no personality or dynamic. You can't complain about no levity while praising Nolan of all people or complain about the occasional camp. Make up your mind, you wanted humour or not? Gotta be honest, your complaint about "Batman beating poor people" is incredibly silly and on par with Ben Shapiro. He doesn't give hope? You missed the whole last scene with the woman? His arc you mentioned only minutes before? I can't take you too seriously. You're not real Batman fan at all. Like at all. No TDK stan is. Also you cutting off her was pretty painful to watch. You guys have no chemistry.
The fact that you said Batman isn't the most interesting character in his stories shows that you really don't know his character . Your knowledge of Batman clearly comes from Nolan movies . Nolan's version of Batman is the reason why I don't think his movies are the best representation the character . The Batman actually gave him a good character arc where he learns to be more than just vengeance . I think TDK is a better movie overall but The Batman is the best Batman movie .
This movie sucked. Take away the Batman coat-of-paint and it's just a mediocre, Hallmark channel tier thriller. And it doesn't help that 70% of the story is told by characters spewing out exposition about events and people that the audience has not seen and has no reason to care about.
