The Battle of Midway - Myths, Legends and Greatness (with Jon Parshall) 

With which battleship class was there the greatest difference in combat capability at time of commissioning between the lead ship, and the last ship of the class?

Possible cruisers armed with the superb 9.2 inch gun if Washington treaty had not destroyed the heavily armed cruiser concept... also the truely awesome 9.2 inch battery in gib

You've mentioned previously that the Bismarck Class' design was lacking in some aspects. I've heard of the flawed 3 prop design, but what else made those ships not as great as they could've been?

Had Stanhope Ring and the rest of Hornet’s air group followed John Waldron and VT-8. What are the chances of them inflicting some form of damage to the Kido Butai and how would it affect the rest of the battle?

@@ph89787 If I’m guessing, Hiryu probably wouldn’t have made the strike on Yorktown

Drach is a good interviewer too, letting Parshall talk, but adding interesting stuff too, as well as asking great questions.

Like Admiral Fletcher, we have two guys here who don’t let their own egos stand in the way of achieving overall success. 👏👏👏

It's easy to see that he's talking about what's his passion - and I enjoy listening to both of them, too.

Great to see an American expert on midway that doesn't imply that the outnumbered American eagles, used the national anthem as a super power, to wipe out the hordes of Japanese. Before finishing the last of the bad guys by hitting them over the head with miniature replicas of the statue of liberty. I'm buying his book. Bravo

@@AdamMGTF Waaaaaaah! Try a pacifier.

Seconded. Montemayor does good work

Yes the fairey swordfish the best naval strike aircraft to ever get built.

Hurrah .... Stringbags TSR0 vs a truely flawed BB... TSR0 wins... well done for the forces of light...

@@Maritimesgestein Laughs in SBD

Reading about the sea state they flew off the deck makes me wooooh... Splat

I saw one some years ago and I was surprised how big the Swordfish is in real life. I was so impressed I went out and bought the Airfix model.

I'm pretty sure it's partly due to the fact that history channels used to do stuff closer to this....and then they turned into reality tv generators. So people have created this amazing community in response! Love all of their efforts.

@@SlavicCelery Even in its heyday History Channel was never this good. There was always filler and recap BS to make sure the whole thing could make it an hour in length, which was really only about 45 min after commercial breaks. Drach actually has to work to keep things from getting too long and nobody here complains when it runs long. I really get tired of all the comparisons of Drach and Mark Felton to History Channel. HC was always bush league compared to these guys.

@@RCAvhstape Oh they're much better. But don't underestimate the power of nostalgia. I was around 10 when it rolled out. So, for a history loving kid... it was pretty awesome. I have since gone back and watched that stuff and it's not as good as I remember, but lowest common denominator.

@@SlavicCelery Some of the stuff that used to be on public TV holds up, like Secrets of the Dead and Frontline.

@@RCAvhstape ABSOLUTE TRUTH

Hard won experience

I didn’t know that. YAYYY Navy damage control!!!

Sir, I appreciate your comment. Do you have any comment on the BHR fire inquiry report? Adverse findings against 30 plus officers. enlisted men and civilians. I am interested in your thoughts. Also against retired officers, which I have not seen previously. I am civilian and have no reference for this type of thinking. 🙏

@@conpanidis3574 I'll share my thoughts on BHR! It's "leadership" sucked! As I've read the reports, I'm aghast at the lax fire fighting/damage control regimen. It is also sad to say that during my time in the Navy (70-78), I ran across MANY commands being run the same way! My last command, I worked as a 'troubleshooter', finding the root causes of persistent electro-mechanical problems, on pretty much any and every ship type the Navy had in San Diego. Almost every ship that I went aboard I found E-5's up to O3's that were totally clueless! Didn't know how to use a firestation, didn't know even how to order parts! Just knew where to sign, without even knowing what they where signing! There were training slots available for classes/schools that went unused, I have no idea why! Every command I was assigned, sent me to all kinds of schools, 5 or 6 just on fire fighting, damage control, NBC warfare, all that, and some repeated over time! I had all of the schools for submarine auxiliaryman, vibration analysis, all kinds of training! After the Navy, I got a Merchant Marine Engineer's license, I sailed ships, I've worked in shipyards, I've even helped build state of the art tugboats and mega yachts. Pointing out the experience just to say.... In all my years and experiences, I've never read of such poor leadership and training! I hope this comes as a BIG wakeup call for all of those "lacking" commands (you know who you are!😉)! The American Taxpayers deserve (and pay for!) better!

Some do, most don't! I've been on both types. I preferred the ones that did!

It's legendary! Great work!

How can you tell its timeless if it is about events that happened less than 80 years ago?

@@Paciat I’d say because it came out in 05 and is still required reading at USNWC.

@@txtifosi Sure. It must be timeless if so much quality historian work supported with tons of data. Cause it sometimes takes a decade to go thru everything that was written. The best history books about the eastern front were written after Russia opened their archives (40% of 1941-1945 history in witch they were loosing). So the part of Western written history is completely based on German accounts. (History was written by the losers) This makes me skeptic to books written in the XX-th century. But a 2005 book used by USNWC must be good.

Just started working my way through Shattered Sword. Interesting take thus far on Yamamoto as a organizational leader.

After a bit it's more of a dialogue than an interview. Alex lets Jon talk and then asks questions based on Jon's earlier answers.

Personally I think Halsey was a fool, and he left honorable men in the water to die at Leyte Gulf. Using excuse of possible submarines in the area. Pffft, send a couple of destroyers, one searches and picks up while other guards, or if there does prove to be japanese sub or subs, dump some rafts over the side and tell em, we'll be back once we deal with these guys. Better than being stuck in the shark infested water with lil hope. Talk to the survivors see what they think of that Halsey guy.

@@fouraces9137 well,..he wasn't too good on weather reports either..."Where oh where is task force 38?"...just picked up a new book on Samar..."Last Stand of the Tin can Sailors"...they used to build those DE's right up the road and float 'em down the river along with the LST's.....

@@frankpienkosky5688 that's a great book.👍 Halsey was a reckless commander.

I believe that Fletcher would have done as well as Halsey at every stage of the war. He learned quickly and consulted with the younger aviators. He helped develop and championed tactics that would be later used to great effect. I don't believe he would have made the big mistakes that Halsey made. The one thing which is hard to quantify is the positive morale effect that Halsey had an the naval forces, and what that effect had in operational efficiency and results.

I could have won the war in charge of the US Navy in 1945 tho…the biggest issue would be to keep all those ships, so so many ships, and wait even more ships from running into each other. No, really.

I did this, and I could not be happier to see it succeed 😁

@Nihil Patel Same here, took ages to deliver by mail but its also one of my favorites now too!

I have the Craig Symonds book that Parshall talks about. It's pretty good. Been meanin to snag a copy of Shattered Sword

@@PalleRasmussen Yeah, I appreciate you getting us in touch with each other, Palle; that was great of you!

@@jonparshall it was its own reward. You are exceptionally nice and a great historian, Drachinifel seems very nice too, and is also doing great historical research/propagation. It seemed logical to me that you two should do something together, and that you would both hopefully benefit from it as you deserve. It makes me feel good that it worked.

It really can't be understates how difficult it is to know with any usable margin of error roughly where you are when you are flying over a uniform featureless surface and all you have is a magnetic compass and a clock. I doubt that they even had a winds aloft report.

There was also some early radio navigation aides, but their reliability was sometimes lacking.

Surface navigation wise, celestial is still quite accurate - well except for cloud cover...

@@insignificantgnat9334 _"There was also some early radio navigation aides, but their reliability was sometimes lacking."_ And you might not want to broadcast your carrier's position to the enemy.

@@peteranderson037 heck, look at the incidents we still have NOW with small plane pilots sometimes getting themselves into trouble over water even with all the instruments we have these days. It can be very disorienting.

Quality always seeks and remains with Quality

My boy from Battle 360

@@TheDude-ko8to Hahaha! Yeah, that was a while ago... ;-)

Drach's getting pretty big on the WWII /Naval historical scene.

Time?

@@MrNicoJac 39.06

There is the notion that frequent mention of lost love ones may lead to reunion with their reincarnations. Perhaps there is hope that frequent reference to the greatly missed HMS Warspite will lead to an encounter with her reinferration (Warspite having been restored and reconstituted as iron and steel again).

@Augustine Squirrel That sailed up a fjord and kicked enemy butt. "I see your 5" gun... And raise you 10" more." The naval version of Hulk slamming Loki to the floor several times, looking at his prey, slamming him a couple more times... And walking away saying, "Puny destroyers."

@@jonrolfson1686 - Sorry, but your post made me think of meeting up with the Azur Lane version of Warspite. 😳

@@tominiowa2513 Speaking of which. Someone did the 'Think Mark Think' meme with Warspite as Omni man

@@tominiowa2513 Had to Google Azur Lane. I see the connection, looks like it might just be War Sprite;-)

Was wondering if anybody else would notice the StarFury.

I was just scrolling through the comments to see if anyone would mention the starfury. Thank you for not disappointing! I love that Drach must be a Babylon 5 fan.

@@mattschultzy671 Likewise.

spotted that as well.

Drach's 5 minute guides to ships of the Earth Alliance is needed I think :)

Oh given what was known about King, it is going to be awesome. Not so much for the BuOrd people though haha

Your buord reference has got me asking? What was the buord response to the type 93? Torp

@@hughgordon6435 The Mark XIV Torpedo.

OK, but what I was meaning was how was the successful, long range hole poker spun when yhey refused to believe their own sailors? What excuses was/were given for successful Japanese torps? Or did they ignore the reports of damage done by type 93,even invent some Japanese subs that were sneaking in between the combatants?

??

'A' in this case is the point of origin and I believe most people understand that logic, one returns to the point of origin. Stop splitting hairs, Joe. Point 'C' in aviation usually denotes a diversion airfield or alternative :-)

Funny how old seaman and pilots from the analog days can always tell you almost exactly where north is even from 30 feet underground in a bunker

We could say Point A prime.

Pilots flying off the Navy's airships in the 30s had to do this, and flying aircraft carriers moved along at a pretty good clip compared to sea carriers.

Where C was the solution of a cubic equation.

I wouldn't be surprised at this point. He's clearly gaining a reputation for excellence in naval history on youtube and just recently had the captain of the Iowa on for an interview. Personally I would love to see it. Drach is by far an outlier on youtube in that he makes his content for the fun of it and to educate first and not for profit.

@@reaperking2121, who had which Iowa captain on an interview? I may have missed this ...

@@ELCADAROSA Drachinifel has an interview with one of Iowa's Captains, Captain Larry Seaquist, who commanded the ship in the 1980s. The video is titled, "USS Iowa - What it's like to actually command a battleship."

@@nomar5spaulding, now that you mention it, I remember seeing the title, but didn’t have an opportunity to watch it then. Thank you!

One Ian Toll to rule them all.

Kindle would be instant download.... (Just saying....)

Then let me make another suggestion. Black shoe carrier admiral by John B Lundstrom. It covers all the carrier battles of 1942 and deep dives into Fletcher's handling of his carrier fleet during this time. It covers logistics, tactics and the battle plans in great detail. The internal politics of the navy are also discussed and explains why some officers fell out of grace with admiral King. As for Fletcher, his dismissal from the front lines was certainty not called for, as this book expertly proves.

My royalty statement thanks you, and I sincerely hope you enjoy the book!

@@duncani3095 Heartily agree. Lundstrom's work is without peer.

@@jonparshall just glad to see people are changing their minds about Fletcher. Sadly it is a slow process, and he didn't live to see it. Media today have still not caught on. Didn't see him in the latest Midway movie, and some actually place admiral Spruance in charge of TF16 and TF17. I guess it takes a long time to change the accepted views of historians like Bates and Morison. But thank you, for going the extra mile to get to what actually happened. For years i also was lead to believe Nagumo was caught pants down with flightdecks loaded at Midway. Several books i own must have just copied that information from previous historians. Have a great weekend, greetings from the Netherlands!

The only thing I disagree with Parshall with is in regards to him saying his book becoming outdated once new information comes out. The last veterans are going away and thus the last great sources we have. Anything in the future would be pure interpretation outside of looking in those 3 hanger decks with an ROV.

Hello there

@@reubensandwich9249 You never know what new written sources may turn up in the future. And re-reading of the existing sources often turns up new stuff as well. History is always evolving, even in the absence of eye-witnesses.

The struggle is real, believe me! :-)

@@jonparshall 8 years in. I believe it.

Absolutely correct

I think its really reflective of what was happening to the Allies during that time - the Japanese were rolling through the Pacific. The British were stretched for equipment and decent commanders and, lets be frank, the US Navy was still working up to being a first rate navy. There were a lot of hard learned lessons during this time but, as you say, a few decent men did their best but got made pariahs of anyway. Its a pretty unfortunate state of affairs.

For all the downsides of the Midway movie, at least 1. The characters are real, and 2. The Japanese carrier flight decks are empty of strike aircrafts during 10:20 attack.

that and getting the attack order wrong for the U.S. torpedo planes....that and Best dropping the bomb just a few feet onto the carrier, it was the pilot Dusty who hit the flag painted on the deck and he didn't drop it that low.

Real life is honestly so much better than so many fictional stories. You can't make that shit up

@@s.31.l50 Well... the characters are based upon real people. Too much of the dialogue was like it was written by a ten-year old who had heard random anecdotes about the war.

Oscar Mayer can't hurt you

I like how he fills in the gaps with theories on what might have happened, ie immediately after the dive-bomber attacks on the Japanese carriers, per Naval doctrine (for both sides)

Read "Six Frigates" too. Another gem.

In fact the japanese cap did have to protect carrier division 1 and 2 during the indian ocean raid when a flight of british bombers managed to attack them undetected. Some officers asked for some radars and a better cap organisation but those change could not be implemented in the time separating them from the Midway battle. The uS navy had just been far better at learning from its mistakes.

Thank you so much for the kind words, and glad you liked the book!

It's done extremely well for a history book in terms of sales.

In before one person points out they found a single ad that Ronson used before WW2 that "could" have been inspiration. Even though a single ad is not an ad campaign. And it took years of research to find a single ad.

And Ronson lighters were probably out long before WWII and tanks lit up like a cigarette lighter....hmmmm

@@markgarin6355 Except that is a myth in regards to the Sherman. Do some research into their safety / combat losses, especially in regards to the other major sides tanks. I recommend Nicholas Moran, aka The Chieftain, he has a great YT channel.

Hopefully you have already seen it but just in case; last month Drach did another interview with Mr. Parshall and that second point was directly mentioned by him. Here is the link to the video just in case you didn't see it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jVhHKPvfL5k.html

It would be entertaining to watch both Mountbatten and King doing what they did best, but the likelihood of being hit oneself would put a dampener on the occasion.

We were innovating like crazy. Nothing like the mental pressure of losing a war to, ummm, clarify one's thinking on matters of damage control...

And it doesn't get much more "top" than personally sinking two Japanese aircraft carriers in one day! (OK, he had an assist on Hiryu.)

can someone explain to me how caustic soda got into Dick Best's air system?!? Someone must have been responsible. What happened to them? I understand it was three years or more for Dick Best to recover,.. and he never did entirely. It may well be true that the caustic soda saved Best's life overall but still it really should not have happened,.. obviously.

@@davidhunt7427 Thank you for asking the question. I found this on the web and learned something new 🙂 www.quora.com/How-was-caustic-soda-formed-in-the-oxygen-rebreather-on-Richard-best-s-Dauntless-during-the-Battle-of-Midway

I was in the Smithsonian Air & Space museum back in 1982 for about 4 or 5 days. Absolutely awesome place if you're into military aircraft!

Nor in mine.

Nor in Philadelphia! Heck, we can go over across the Delaware River and visit the Battleship New Jersey! :-)

@@guhalakshmiratan5566 After the Olympia, of course.

Just find a bar that serves Irn Brew and Drach'll be happy.

..@@guhalakshmiratan5566 my cousin took a temporary posting on that ship..[cook]...when they took it from Jersey to San Diego

What's this world war 2 channel you speak of?

@@aaronsweet2304 ru-vid.com

@@ronmaximilian6953 thanks Ron

What was the name of the documentary

Is it available on YT?

I am going to take a stab in the dark and say it was the Batlle 360 episode on Midway. good stuff if you haven't watched it. it's aviable on RU-vid

@@JohnSmith-kg2rt ultimate warfare midway

@@seanmac1793 I’ve seen that too but this one was called ultimate warfare midway

I was happy to hear him give Admiral Fletcher the recognition he deserves.

I try to edit myself, but it's just so hard not to get wrapped up in the subject material! ;-)

@@jonparshall Jon, your writing and commentary are amazing. You bring the subject matter to life. Thanks!

Do it.

It's really worth it. I've read it at least 3 times.

You will not regret the purchase.

I got it, read it, and keep going back again and again to reread particular sections.

One of the best books about history period... doesn't just tell what happened, anyone will understand the why after reading it

I closed my eyes and I was absolutely sure it was that guy that I always confuse with Bill Pullman. The “Dumb and Dumber” guy that isn’t Jim Carey.

Jeff Daniels.

I felt the same way--this was a genuinely fun session to put together. Looking forward to the next one!

@@jonparshall Drach reminds me of the kids in the Candyman scene in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory myself.

There are some lectures online with Jon, where he goes through the process, sources, etc.

Now it only we could get Hollywood to do the same homework...

Versus Mitscher's ....

@@andrewgause6971 Dream on, lol! :-)

@@andrewgause6971 the only planes I saw on the carrier's deck in the movie were zeroes...on the other hand, they really screwed up the Pearl Harbor attack....zeroes don't sink battleships..."Tora! Tora! Tora!" did a much better job there....

Check militaryaviationhistory's video on the that subject. It was posted earlier in the week.

@@Raptorrat Chris did an excellent job. Especially on the timeline of where the Zeros could have been, but were not? Just where were the bulk of the Zeros after the TBD attack? back on their carriers? Plenty of time to climb back to altitude to get the SBDs.

@@jim874 no radar...they didn't even know they were there until it was too late....

@@jim874 It was never the same set. They were going up and down constantly.

Hope it gets better m8 \o

@@Tzunamii777 much better now it's Friday mate :)

We'll be doing a Q&A session tomorrow--looking forward to it!

Submarine races are my favorite

Hope you got a good grade on that puppy! ;-)

@@jonparshall definitely impressed my professors!

I have read and re read Ian Toll`s Pacific Crucible, which draws heavily from Shattered Sword. Should I still read SS? PC seems quite good.

My understanding is that more sailors died in Iron Bottom Sound protecting the marines on the island, than marines were killed on Guadalcanal, but you'd never get a marine to acknowledge that.

@@stephendixon4619 I think the way it worked out was, more sailors died than Marines; but the Marines had more wounded. Which I guess makes sense.

@@richardmalcolm1457 Yeah not quite as many wounded in the Navy, more of an all or nothing type of job.

Another reason Fletcher had to pull back his carriers that wasn't mentioned in this talk was that he was running dangerously low on operational fighters so the carriers were pretty much paper tigers at that point and thus, what i would call, Fletcher's dilemma was solved. the carriers couldn't protect the landing force so thus they shouldn't be risked to protect the landing force even if you consider the marines of greater value than the carriers.

@@stephendixon4619 Keep in mind the decision to leave only partially disembarked was made 12 hours BEFORE the cruiser disaster that night. The Marines were only 60% disembarked and without any heavy equipment..... and with only 5 days of rations at that. The sailors that died from command stupidity in Iron Bottom Sound were totally separate from the ones that abandoned the Marines only partially disembarked. Since the Navy abandoned the Marines to their fate three times in less than a year, there was more than a little justification on the Marine side.

We had a great time, and I hope it shows!

A good reason why we should not be trying people as war criminals more than 50 years after the fact.

did Cotton really kill fiddy men??

@@tominiowa2513 your takeaway from that is that we shouldnt be prosecuting war criminals? Nazi war criminals aren't being prosecuted on modern testimony alone. Most remaining ones have been found living under aliases and are being prosecuted based on testimony given in the 40s and 50s and records showing where they were based.

@@davem2369 . Nazi war criminals? Maybe you should concern yourself about American war criminals, you know The most numerous kind who are never prosecuted.

@@perunasade4586 considering the main focus of this channels content is WW2 and prior i mentioned Nazi war criminals as they are pretty much the only ones of that era still still alive for prosecution. If you want me to condemn American war criminals, or any others, of more modern eras I'm quite happy to (why you specifically mention Americans though, im not sure)