@@LubricationExplained Thanks for your video! Do you know whether naphthalene based oils are used in significant amounts as lubrciation in machines that are used for manufacturing other products? I couldnt find any data on it. There is some anecdotal info about products containing naphthalene and nobody knows why. Some years back Kelloggs had to recall some cereal and occasionally there's naphthalene in carseats for children or toothbrushes.
One of my favs as well, had some solubility issues with a custom full PAO Diesel engine oil I made. A bit of Alkyl-Naph and a few other bits really helped.
Just came across your channel today. Great stuff! I used to be involved manufacturing AN, Esters and PAO's for a large oil company during the glory days of group 4 and 5 usage in engine oils. From an operations point, pure naphthalene is very difficult to handle, especially in colder weather. And as it's a batch operation like esters (PAO is continuous) it's more expensive to make by a significant margin than PAO. You're correct that putting the alykl group on different points of the ring yields different properties. Reactionwise, the hardest part is to get the alkyl group to hitch itself consistently to the same spot on the rings. We had to develop a proprietary catalyst to accomplish this.
Great insight! With over 20 years around ANs, you identify probably the main reason why there are only two players in the market. It's hard to make them consistently and cost-effectively. Of the two players in the market, one had already developed its downstream range before they decided to sell ANs. So, their R&D had almost all been completed & the downstream products were generating cash. As a result of the downstream product range, they can sell a wide range of ANs. The other (with whom I suspect you worked) had the resources to develop the two grades most likely to have a broad range of applications. The barrier to entry by either route is very high.
Nulon oil state that their Race engine oil is PAO Alk Nap, while Penrite state theirs is PAO ester. They dont say much beyond that. Penrite has little information on their oil blend and Nulon even less in specifications and data sheets. Thanks for the video.
I haven't really kept up with the engine oil formulations to be honest. As mentioned below, AN has a lower VI than parrafinics so it's not going to be the main base oil in an engine oil formulation, it's more a co-base that can replace esters in engine oils.
I am so grateful if u make a video about sulphur in engine oil what additive did they use n how sulphur can harm the engine oil n harm the engine components???..please..thank you😅👍😁
There's a video on the channel which is "Zinc in Engine Oils". There's also another called "EP additives". Both of these should cover what you're looking for! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3PeqJqss0Ao.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xZupsuNdPBg.html
@@LubricationExplained thanks a lot..sory i ask to much..i am just started to learn about lubricants..this is very helpful..i love your channel..keep it up @lubrication explained..👍😊
Good question - I'm inclined to say no, as this description is pretty common to detergents (comprises the long hydrocarbon chain of the detergent). From memory the ANs I've seen are C12-16 branches.
Great explanation of the chemistry, this was super helpful. One question, at one point you mention carbon double bonds are weaker than single bonds, but then later on you say they're less stable? In what cases are they stronger or more stable vs weaker or less stable? Thanks!
Good ol' LE, Thrashes it out... Rings the bells... I would disagree at one aspect - An oil, mainly based on Ester or AN, would be specific, racing oil, application? They're expensive. Also, Don't want to change oil seals, too often, in real life... For practical use: PAO + AN as a polarized, hydro stable, additive "solvent" , would be nice? (eg: Mobil?) Cost effective "solution" = GIII, kinda uniform molecules, a bit polar? A bit less AN, with additives? :) Pl do a show, on how Esters or AN's swell seals & Explain the difference between seal swelling & pliability?
As far as engine oils go, yes, you'll probably never see a pure AN engine oil mainly because of its low VI. The only times I've seen AN oils are in industrial applications where you don't need performance over a wide temperature range, because most equipment operates at constant temperature for 99% of its life. In the engine oil world, you're right, it's most likely going to show up as a co-base with a PAO.
What do you think about high viscosity AN’s such as AN having vis@40C of 300 cSt ? Its aniline point is 125. Do you think it can still be used as solubilizer? I have heard that this grade might worsen the shear stability if we combine with PAO to formulate a synthetic automotive gear oil like 75w-90. Thanks in advance for your comments :)
@@kahar_diy3955 Sulfur in base oil acts as a mild antioxidant. It is only removed as a side effect of the hydrocracking process for group 2 and group 3. Both natural sulfur and additives can in some conditions react badly with copper based metals, this is why some manual transmissions require GL-4 oil while the hypoid differential can use GL-5, the GL-5 has better anti-scuff protection but it can damage bronze in certain operating conditions.
@@mytech6779 owh..i see..thanks for the great info..but i have another question if i may ask..😅 how long the sulfur additives can lasts in engine oil..? N after that did some of sulfur level 0.03% remain in base oil group II n III can reacts n harm hydrogen n carbon molecule the has form in hydrocracked process?
Generally no. As it's a pure synthetic base oil - i.e. synthesised from known feedstocks, sulphur levels are vanishingly small. Naphthenic base oils (which are refined from naphthenic crude oil) will contain sulphur levels similar to other Group I, II, and III mineral oils, but that's a different base oil technology entirely, despite similarities in the name and ring structures. As @MyTech points out though, there's likely to be sulphur in the antiwear additives. Both ZDDP and MoDTC contain sulphur, as examples.
Moly is good for engine by reducing friction but would recommend you use engine oil which contains higher concentration of Moly. Engine will running smoother.
Granted - it's not going to be the main base oil for automotive and mobile equipment. But a lot of industrial equipment spends 99.9% of operating time at a very narrow temperature window - for these applications VI isn't really all that important. Like I said in the video, all base oils have their place - I just used "best" in the title because I'm experimenting with how RU-vid treats titles in the algorithm.
I think there could be problems with seals, especially Buna N. Steric hindrance could prevent the naphthenic from migrating into the rubber, but the R groups would still allow Buna N process oils, additives, etc. to migrate out. The seal would therefore shrink. This is why you never have a Pure Buna N formula. A non-oil resistant rubber is always in the formula so it can swell to compensate for the shrink of the Buna N which is oil resistant.
?You're right, and it has probably been an achille's heel for some product developments. However, you also have to remember that one player makes ANs with branched alkyl chains, while the other uses predominantly straight chains. Success may be possible by using the nearest product from the other player and/or moving to a lower viscosity AN, which usually means less substitution, so less steric bulk. Or back out some AN and add a little ester. Not a simple task, I agree. But it's why formulators are skilled people.
I really like your Video i watched your video talking about base oils In your opinion, in the production of insulating oil, which is the better naphthenic and paraffinic base oils?
