I love that Q is basically a slasher villain in fighting game form if you're great at parrying. Just standing there taking hits with no reaction, taking his sweet time until he finally decides to end you with clumsy overwhelming strength. Even his parry is just "You got something on my jacket."
When you were definining what made Phoenix Wright bad, I couldnt help but laugh. In Ace Attorney, this is EXACTLY how every trial goes. Phoenix is on the back foot, and has to claw for any advantage he can get, until the "gotcha." Then, the amazing Cornered theme kicks in, and you feel triumphant. The way they incorporated that into UMVC3 was awesome. Great video!
@@totallyaploy1824 categorization as a "fighting game" aside, i think Little Mac in Smash is very reminiscent of his source game(s). in a fighter where characters are rewarded for having well-rounded kits fit for every situation, Mac is a more or less gimmick character who has by FAR the worse aerial options and recovery in the game, but some of the strongest potential when he's touching the ground. this sorta simplifies his gameplan to tight spacing and taking advantage of whiff punishes, which is exactly what Punch-Out!! is about. dodge first, get some damage in after. a total underdog with crazy potential, so long as you find your window to use it.
Importantly Q’s taunt does not actually raise his health but instead increases his defensive multiplier. The earlier in a round you do it the more effective health you gain.
One thing I wish you mentioned about Robo-Ky is that when he gets knocked down, he has the option to talk shit, during which he stays on the ground longer than you are normally allowed to, letting him dodge certain oki and meaty setups by messing with the timing needed for them
Fun fact, Q suffers 1f extra of blockstun compared to all other characters, and briefly during crouch, his grab box goes to the sky and as such he cannot be ground thrown
I love how Phoenix having 1 million HP harkens back to his absurd shows of durability in three of his games. In Trials & Tribulations, he fell off a burning rope bridge several stories into a raging river… and came out not only in one piece but merely caught a cold for a day. Then in Apollo Justice, Phoenix got rammed by a car hard enough to fly into a nearby telephone pole face first… and emerged with a sprained ankle for a couple of days. And back to Trials & Tribulations for a bit, Phoenix back in college ATE a glass bauble laced with trace amounts of poison (needing to break it for easy consumption first) and suffered neither lacerations nor poisoning. Oh, last one from Justice for All, someone brained him with a fire extinguisher in his sleep; he came down with amnesia for about an hour right before a case and won the whole thing before finally regaining his memories. The man is just built different.
Don't forget getting constantly physically abused by the current prosecutor on the case, including getting tazed, whipped repeatedly, thrown a cup of boiling coffee to his face.
I love how you frame characters. You start off with their strengths and how they thrive, making them sound like one of the best in the game, but then you break down how far their actual heat differs from their potential strengths. Very well-made, interesting, and informative videos you've got here.
If you see sf3 Twelve u can say the same. Has an air dash, a lot of fast attacks and long range ones. He can become fking invisible. But there he is, an absolute mess of a character
There are a couple hidden buffs for Phoenix Wright: 1) his jumping objection isn’t actually an overhead, but everyone thinks it is. Combined with the last hit of his “steel samurai maya smelting” super hitting low, he can either go for a true unblockable with his forward + medium trip or a fake one 2) he has a glitch in the game where if he activates level 1 X factor while in turnabout mode, he gets the level 3 damage bonus instead for the duration. This combined with the fact that his level 3 hyper combo being full screen 0 frame startup means that he will one shot anyone in the cast 3) his “bridge to the turnabout” (objection) while in trial mode will activate his turnabout mode on assists and can be easily comboed into from a TAC or DHC. There’s also a very neat touch where as his mode improves to trial and turnabout, not only do his special moves (and evidence uses) become way better, but his confidence of using the moves improves and is reflected in the animations
The second one is not true. It is not a glitch and it is not the base level 3 x factor damage boost. It is actually a hard coded 100% damage boost in turnabout, whereas his base l3 x factor is only 85% damage boost.
@@Balthazar228 yeah, it really adds to the fact that Phoenix Wright is a win condition character. L3 x factor in turnabout mode makes him a harder hitting character than Vergil.
An important note about Wright: In MvC 3, X-Factor has different 'levels' based on how many of your other characters have been KO'd. With no casualties, you get a level 1 X-Factor, and when you're on your last character, you get the most powerful level 3 X-Factor. Unless you're playing Wright, who ALWAYS gets level 3 X-Factor, regardless of how many of his allies are KO'd.
@@chronocxcThe thing is it's either true or _practically_ true, because phoenix's turnabout damage becomes INSANE when hecs in any kind of x-factor. he actually wipes everyone in the cast either way.
On the same topic, Arthur in UMvC3 completely just does not have a grounded dash, which is something every character can do except him(granted not all of the character's dashes are created equally)
@@hi.im.iris69420Tbf this was intentional to represent Arthur’s stiff movement and double jump from Ghosts n Goblins. I think Anakaris lacks pushblock purely because of oversight.
@@bulb9970 Anakaris still lacks pushblock in the revisions of VSAV, they very clearly intended to balance his kit by giving him terrible defense. Not every strange design decision is just because the devs "forgot" or something.
Reminds me of GGML, axl having invuln moves cuz the devs forgot to put his hitboxes in, axl also not being able to charge cuz of a typo, testament not being able to tech cuz of an missing if state
Saw that something flashed on the screen during the Kuroda mention and it made me think of one thing instantly. Glad that stopping the video confirmed it lol
You t-bag me, You're banned You taunt me, You're banned You grab me more than 5 times in a row, You're banned Well, I ain't gonna ban you for that But I might suspend you for 48 hours
So small addition to the pokemon trainer section: Type effectiveness overall doesn't hurt the character all that much. After all, it's only a problem for what is already the worst of the three. The thing that REALLY kills PT is swapping speed. In ultimate, swapping is very fast, and combined with its invincibility it even makes for a good combo breaker. In brawl, however, it takes MULTIPLE SECONDS to swap. If you had any advantage before, swapping meant your opponent got a free neutral reset at WORST. Combined with stamina forcing you to swap every so often, it made PT incredibly clunky and awkward to play. In all honestly, buffing the swap speed was the single biggest buff PT recieved in ultimate.
I always played Junpei because he's my favorite character in fiction thanks to Persona 3, and I've always known that he's low to mid tier, but rushdown also happens to be my playstyle choice so I figured him out quite quick lol
Great video, and something you hinted at that I always think unintentionally helps low tiers is how unique/cool/visually appealing they are. If the low tier is a generic and bland copy of, say, an established archetype/theme then the appeal of using said character seems to drop off a cliff. Whereas the mystery man in a trenchcoat who fights with brute force, or the egyptian mummy that is frankly bizarre even in VSav, have that interest that 'Bloke who is the main character with a different colour effect and worse frame data' just wouldn't have.
I absolutely love the last one you mentioned. What a clever fighting game character concept, forcing you to understand baseball in order to play the character! I can't wait for the fighting game character which makes you have to know chess in order to play it well.
@@vivelespatat2670 Sorry, but I didn't remember the name at the time I commented. I don't think YOMI Hustle was out at the time, though. I'm not even sure it was renamed at the time I commented.
24:56 Uh oh, you got something wrong here. Well I know you don't play Guilty Gear so I just want to briefly correct this. Burst actually doesn't use Tension, it uses a dedicated meter named, conveniently, Burst. You can see that meter right below a player's healthbar. The specifics of how Burst works is not important at the moment, but I just want to clarify that Burst does not use Tension, or else that'd be very broken 😅. Otherwise, very great video, covers about all of my favourite low tiers. They have such a charm I can never get tired of and it's always fun to watch them in action at high levels.
The funny thing about the stamina mechanic on Pokemon Trainer is that it actually affected the Pokemon very differently. For Squirtle, having a low stamina was arguably a GOOD thing is it made opponents easier to juggle (a big deal in Brawl with its miniscule hitstun), racking up much more damage overall in spite of individual hits being weaker. But for Ivysaur, it was an absolute death knell, especially since she's already the least effective member of the team in Brawl. It was a mess, to say the least.
weirdly enough, the second half of this video's characters seem to be very Mariah-like, in the sense of requiring to be charged and being low damage otherwise. Wild to see how she might've inspired some of them, the true best, worst HFTF char.
One of my absolute favorite low tiers of all time is Yuuki Terumi from Blazblue. He's the definition of rush down, NEEDING to be in his enemy's face to do anything. And he can actually put on some pretty decent pressure. His main mechanic is that he gets meter VERY easily, as his drive attacks (unique button that every character gets) gives him insane meter gain even on block. However, because of this he is incredibly meter reliant. He only has 3 special moves, the rest of his major moves all being his distortion drives (supers). Hell, even his DP is a DD. Not only that but his damage is generally VERY low without meter. If you do have meter though, although he has some AMAZING moves (his dp is great, he has a 50/50 with 2 of his DDs, he has a solid anti-keepaway super (though this costs 100 meter), he has an AMAZING combo ender that cashes out all of his meter for insane damage, and if you have the opportunity, his astral heat (instakill) is REDICULOUSLY easy to combo into, meaning that if he snowballs you it is OVER.) On the other hand, he has a dashing super that, while a good combo tool, has 0 invin making it bad to get in, and has an infamously bad counter super, colloquially known as a 50 meter taunt. But the thing that make Terumi REALLY special is his overdrive (a special install every character gets) which allows you to STEAL METER. All of his supers become better, he gets access to a loop that gives him TONS of meter in an instant and allows him to essentially do 200 meter combos, and that combo ender super pretty much deletes the other person's meter. But overdrive comes so slow, and if you use it then you can't burst.
Junpei is great if you can convince your friends to play best of 5 rounds. Also while shadow junpei can get to victory cry state way easier nothing is scarier than regular junpei stalling you out in awakening and gaining more and more awakening HP over time
You neglected to mention one of the biggest problems with Pokemon Trainer: The insanely long time it takes to actually switch Pokemon. It wouldn't have made the character viable if it *was* faster, but the switch speed being so slow is just another scoop for the crap sundae. It's so bad that in the clip at 10:48, the Trainer literally sacrifices advantage to switch Pokemon and is STILL minus even after Diddy recovers. The only way you're not eating whatever punish your opponent cooks up that day is if you switch while they're Star KO'd. Which is kinda hard to do if your Pokemon is fatigued and therefore CAN'T KILL. Also you can't use it in the air, either. All of this was fixed in Ultimate, so not only can you find more opportunities to switch in that game, but switching even has defensive utility as a pseudo-airdodge. Just gonna throw this in as well, but Squirtle would be a solid high tier if he was on his own with no fatigue. He has some really neat tech and a solid moveset. Really the only thing keeping the character out of bottom tier.
Pheonix wright and Q are my favorite type of low tiers, where if you manage to achieve certain difficult conditions you get buffs that make you as good as or even better than the game’s top tiers. The type of buffs that would be completely broken on mid or high tier characters (replacing any high tier or above’s taunt with Q’s would make them completely broken, like if you get knocked down at the start of the round you probably lose because suddenly they have more health than Hugo). I like this because you can play a low tier but get the opportunity to feel powerful.
I really liked this vid, but one thing that stuck out to me was Doctor Strange being called low tier, when he's far from it. Between two great assist (Eye of Agamotto and Bolts of Balthakk), his teleports, damage plus meter build from Impact Palm loop and Spell of Vishanti he's a pretty strong character overall and actually one of the better anchors in the game. He has issues with his mobility and normals being iffy but his positives more than make up for it, at the very worst he's upper mid tier, though i personally have him at the bottom of high tier.
Yeah I have friends who got into Marvel 3 fairly recently and it's taught me that the game's meta has changed a lot, cause I remember a while ago that Strange generally wasn't considered very good. Perhaps I'm mistaken though, but in any case I apologize for the mistake.
@@MrMixtape It's all good, there's A LOT of misinfo about MvC3 out there (like Vergil being #1). Strange wasn't seen as too strong very early on, but as people started rocking teams like Nova/Spencer/Strange it became clear that he's a pretty strong support overall. He's still not used as much because Doom is in the game and Doom is legit the best support character in the game, that's why Nova/Spencer/Doom is an alternate version of the team I mentioned earlier that works very well.
Q may be weak in some ways but the sense of power he gives off is amazing his hits FEEL like they hurt and his taunt gradually shaking the screen more everytime makes you feel like a dragonball character slowly powering up. He is amazing and i really hope we get to see him again eventually
I was probably the only person in the world who was a Brawl Pokemon Trainer main and LOVED the stamina mechanic. It really accentuated the team aspect of the character, you shouldnt just be using the one who is strongest(squirtle) hes a little guy who needs support! The only issues are A:the switching is too slow since Brawl loads characters one at a time and B:its exclusively a punishment with no upside, taking time to give up advantage for a character who is likely less suited to a task you needed. If it werent such a problem you wouldn't have so much tech discussion on "where are the safest places to switch, and how can we mitigate the consequences?"
It’s so satisfying whenever someone comes up with an interesting video concept and then nails its execution. I know the video is about low tiers, but your research and presentation is top tier.
About Phoenix, apparently, the rng seed only changes when you select characters, so if you just immediately rematch without returning to character select, he'll pull items in the same order as the last game. Also, apparently, Turnabout mode causes X Factor to always be level 3, regardless of if he has teammates alive or not.
Robo Ky is even more notable in the DS games. Because they had a mechanic where Robo Ky was a custom character. Meaning you can choose his moveset to be whatever you wish. Allowing you to build the most OP mother fucker
something funny about Q, is that if like 2 changes were made, he would be a genuine MENACE in the game letting him cancel his standing and crouching medium kick would give him access to some absurd pressure as the punches put him at the perfect range on block to do either cLP or cMK i genuinely cannot fathom how messed up Q with actual good rushdown is
Theres a problem going on in sequels with low tiers where people will claim "nobody played them and they were bad" as reasoning for them not getting in when the rosters are revealed and its disheartening that people will complain about top tier strengths and then do the same cycle of complaints when the cast is less diverse and everyone starts to play the same. the top tiers are the most picked characters and when the more esoteric and "fun characters" are left out all that does is force players to go with the "stronger" strategy from the characters that are left.
I think it’s important to mention in regards to Q, Kuroda in my humble opinion, is simply on another level as a 3rd Strike player. He has an argument for being one of the best players of EACH member of the roster, let alone just Q. He’s the 3S GOAT, shout outs to Kuroda
I love playing low tiers. I play fighting games for the funny so anybody that is as goofy as Wright from marvel or plant from ult and down are my favorites.
One character I don't often hear people talk about is Skarlet from MK11. She has some of the fastest zoning, decent damaging combos but her drawback is that she has gaps in her attack strings which let's your opponent flawless block
“Junpei is always playing catch-up” Very in-character. Shouldn’t underestimate him, though, P3 OR P4AU. You get him set-up and watch as he wins the game for you.
I know the feeling of low tiers. I main little Mac in smash, and also use Zangief and Amingo in MVC2. It can be rough at times but when you get going and you start winning, it’s the best feeling ever
Stryker in MK9. At first glance, he's just a regular cop. However, he has quite a few versatile tricks he can pull, and his gun is the fastest projectile in the game.
Phoenix is highkey a solo character. Most use him as an anchor really strong character really nothing sub par and he does not struggle against mix up full projectile blocks and combo breaker makes him really strong not to mention his XFactor with all your team is always level 3 top that with turnabout.
I can't believe I had to be subjected to Robo Ky's theme that genuinely hurt my head lol. You should've gone with his Korean theme it's absolutely fire,,,
My favorite part about low tiers is that usually they have a unique mechanic that makes them harder to succeed. Don’t belive me? Anji(strive not anymore imo), junpei, 12, eltnum from uni, and hakumen just to name a few.
hilarious how junpei is basically can be summarized in the same sentence in p3 and p4a, which are same series different genre When you give him a shot, he cooks.
It\s like guns in an FPS, if one sounds and feels great to use, it's probably going to be better than the one that is statistically the better one. (There's actually a great documentary on how in Wolfenstein enemy territory the Thompson was received as an better weapon because of the sound even though it shared the exactly same stats as the MP40.)
Honestly, the baseball system ius what endeared me to Junpei when I first bought P4U on the ps3. I bought it cause I was a huge fan of four but never played 3, with Reload being recently finished and now I know 3's story I've been tempted to redownload and play P4u Again.
With sf6 jamie being bad for needing to do something to boost him, I can see that the arquetype that gets stronger by doing something during the match is the bad one.
Marvel vs Capcom 3 has some of the most creative and cool characters in any fighting game ever and it is so devastating to me how these designs don't necessarily pay off when faced with the way core mechanics are handled. In nearly any other game characters like Phoenix Wright or Amaterasu would be beautifully multidimensional and standout characters but they just really don't get the opportunity to play to their strengths and it hurts
Ammy was destroyed by system changes from vanilla, where she was extremely good for a variety of reasons. Scaling assists, the delay, no block during airdash, and even stuff like dhc glitch being fixed really decimated her.
Anakaris is up there with Devo as one of the most creative and innovative movesets Capcom ever put out. I love that guy.That said, I don't think he would have been OP with a standard throw and useful guard cancel. At least they gave him curse loops and gigantic coffin drops in MvC2.
The way u casually mention that q can kara cancel his command throw . . . That cancel is so difficult people didnt even know it was possible for a long time. Granted, i suppose at the top level qs kara cancel does matter but for most even decent players the execution is out of reach consistently
As someone who's been watching a fair bit of MrMixtape recently... Listening to Phoenix Wright felt like a revelation when I pinned down the fact that his problem is he's basically Miriah (Or at least, a Level Up character)
Don't really know if this truly counts as a fighting game. But I would argue that D&A from Lethal League Blaze is a great example of an amazing low tier fighter
For Phoenix Wright, his lvl 3 super isn't just fast, its FRAME 1 and FULLSCREEN. That super is an immediate death sentence for most of the cast if your caught in it, that and a bug in the game makes it to where in turnabout his x-factor always gives the maximum amount of damage boost
I’m late to the party but oh my god look at that at 10:45. Charizard gets a back throw off stage at 50% and immediately tries to switch but it’s such a slow fucking option that the accursed monkey get back and TAKES CENTER STAGE. And he had to do that swap or he’d have been stuck w stamina drained charizard till the next advantage he got this character just doesn’t even get the opportunity to threaten early kills offstage or even ledge trap. Ugh brawl Pokémon switch man, that’s insane
This. Well that, the fact every change to the meta in Brawl was seemingly out of spite, and third party characters were novel instead of making up like 10% of the roster. I don't even like smash bros, brawl is a definitive stopping point.
Oh yeah and Robo Ky can taunt while he's knocked down. It gives him meter and of course mucks up the opponent's oki cause he's invincible during it. Those damn robots and their taunts.
