Thanks Mr. Hainbach for a great review! First off, the pros and cons you humorously listed are 1,000% true, lol. One thing I can add is MIDI capability (without velocity, unfortunately) that you can use to link with other modules, while also playing the Faderboard. There were many other improvements that I had hoped for when the first model came out around 2002, we got the global patent and maybe 500 were made. One initial challenge was that Vestax didn’t own a sound module so we turned to Korg. However, Vestax believed they didn’t get a good deal on them, which drove the cost up and it retailed around $800. I didn’t choose the internal sound bank (yes they’re cheesy except 08), but I programmed the drum kits with available sounds from Korg Electribe series. Also, the automatic key system was incorporated into Korg Kaossilator that came out after. Personally, for the user bank I sampled in long C tones from Hammond organs, PPG and analog synths that sound a lot better, albeit stretched over the scale. You can have them stored in the user bank so you don’t have to wait for the atrociously slow memory to load (I’ve never really used the card). You can also use vocals and ambient nature sounds on loop that sound great especially when slowed down. So, we demonstrated the new product at NAMM, PLASA, all around the world and got a lot of positive attention. At the time, Vestax was tiring hard to secure global distribution and teamed up with Korg USA. I recall that the high-end DJ instruments were NOT received very well by the Korg USA team, they simply didn’t understand the appeal. The Faderboard followed the same fate as Q-bert’s QFO, D-Style’s Controller One, Vestax simply could not sustain the production. Vestax parted with Korg USA and turned its focus on digital controllers. At first they were ahead of the curve and even sold at Apple Stores, but eventually got squeezed out by bigger players like Pioneer, RANE, etc. Vestax had abandoned its bread & butter of turntables and mixers, and in my opinion the company never recovered from that, resulting in bankruptcy in 2014 . Today, the Vestax brand is still alive and the repair service is still active in Tokyo, so never say never! If you want more background info, my page is still up at [e22 dot com / faderboard]. Thanks! \( ¨̮ )/
Thanks for all that, Would love to see you continue working on samplers. Have always had an appreciation for Japan and the contribution Japanese people have had in the music and tech world. Many thanks and bless 🖖🏾🛸🙏🏾
For those of you that don't know, Shing02 is a Japanese rapper/producer that worked with Nujabes on their multi part collaboration love(sic). Never expected to see him here...
Vestax were a great company for trying new directions. I was sad when they folded. Most discontinued products of any company? Even the ones that did not sell well, were usually very innovative, bold and interesting. I loved the turntables and mixers myself, the 07 Pro is a workhorse. The 08 Digital Hybrid smashes it too, and the decks always looked out of this world, with super high torque and straight arms - Wow.
What's very funny is hearing samples I created for Korg in the examples you played. Many years ago for Trinity and Triton voicing originally but you never know where your kids will end up!
We can do things like this now with a new MIDI effect we created for my Unify plug-in. You can trigger a note with any MIDI CC# and Unify has 24 layers so you could set up 24 different layers (Using any plug-in you own) to recreate what this cool unit is doing.
The concept is very similar to how 10cc recorded their 1975 song ‘I’m Not In Love.’ The base vocal track was a chromatic scale and the band played the faders in the studio.
wow, I have seen Alessandro Cortini talk about that tecnique, but I didn't know that about "I'm Not In Love"! The production on that tune is vastly underrated.
Kinda reminds me of when Alessandro Cortini used a Tascam Portastudio for some Nine Inch Nails shows for playback of drones instead of using a synth. He'd probably love this thing.
instantly i had to load an ambient sound chromatically spread over 16 tracks in ableton and played them over my 2x8 apc40 faders. FADERS "as Keyboard" IS SUCH A GREAT CONCEPT. Thank you, Hainbach!
Small world, Vestax was originally started by my friend on the floor of his lounge in Salford, Manchester....He's been making and fixing Amps etc for over 40 yrs....I have a 600W Power Amp of theirs, it's built like a tank and been working since the 70's.
Oh my, what a lovely idea for an instrument! I think you can quite easily program a MIDI controller to do exactly this in a more DAW-focussed setup with custom scales and so on. Many many thanks for the inspiration!
The issue may be the midi controller resolution. I don't hear any stepping in the demo, so it's likely that the internal resolution is higher than 128 steps max that a typical midi controller provides.
@@humfreee well, given that it's easy to add some short glide between input values in a more modular environment, you can circumvent most perceivable stepping anyway. 128 states is plenty for mixing if you cover up the transitions.
@@KeksosDerGrosse Glide like that always adds lag so it isn't ideal for real time/interactive instrument tweaking. Plus in some cases stepping will still be audible. The best way to do the hardware side would be an analogue slider that gets converted to digital for internal use with a lot of steps, say 1028.
@@humfreee ok, my mistake: it'll work for about 95% of all the people who would actually midi program something like this for their own, personal needs that don't follow those of other people with completely different needs. if these are needs at all, that is.
Five years ago I saw one for the first time. A guy I was visiting while purchasing something else said I should buy his Faderboard. I didn't know what it was so I passed. Then read about it and got very sad I never bought it. Cue 2021. I see one for sale by another friend of mine. The only one I've seen in five years. Turns out it was the very same unit. And yes, these days it's in my studio and I will probably not part with it for another five years :)
Great idea. I was watching "Guardians of the Galaxy" the other day and was blown away by how ethereal and huge the background vocals are in "I"m not in Love" by 10cc. They used almost this exact same technique, albeit with a tape machine and console, to mix and create chords for that iconic bg vocal sound. Such a great idea to make this technique readily available with hardware. Thanks for bringing attention to in Hainbach! Your channel is awesome. Just sub'd.
This is so cool to see again, I saw DJ Flare from invizibl Scratch Piklz doing a live show with one of these whilst on holiday in San Francisco. It was a pre release version I think, I had never seen anything like it. Amazing and unusual piece of kit. This was about 20 years ago.
man this is litterally the exact thing ive been wanting for so long, they need to make a new one thats just faster loading times and a one sample per fader feature and it would fly off the shelves
The Zoom R24 and R16 can do this, one sound/sample per fader. Never saw anyone using the Zoom devices for this purpose, but it works. Only pity is you can’t edit the sounds in real time and that you can’t sync them to MIDI…
@@jeanmicheljarret6097 yes but surely korg still has a copy of the design and they definitely do something in like the format of the minilogue xd desktop module or even a volca.
Unless it’s a different guy, shing02 was also one of Nujabes’s collaborators for the Samurai Champloo OST and was the vocalist on the opening. Wild to hear he had a part in making a sampler too.
Those effects sounds VERY much like the MicroKorgs. Super interesting, I like the approach of trying to make an instrument out of playing the faders on a mixer... Definitely something there for experimental. I could see Soma Synths making something like this, they have been killing it with innovative unique experimental stuff.
I remember Vestax, I worked at a music store at the time, and no one was very impressed. Amazing that this one survived the recycling bin. There were many other samplers around that were better that's why it fell out of favor. I had the YAMAHA TX16w that sampler was amazing for the 80's, 12bit but what it could do. Anyway, thanks for this piece of history. This thing sounds great, and I like the faders and what you can do with them. Thanks for showing this.
Really cool thing! Would love to see this emulated in an iPad App or virtual instrument since the Hainbach effect will surely make the real thing pretty impossible to get hold of. I recall trying to build something like this in Ableton the first time I got my hands on a midi controller with 8 faders but I gave up. Would love to play like this again
Man I love this thing! Just wish i'd known about it while doing my degree, we did alot of work with max and arduino etc. Its been 10 years since I programmed anything (mainly OTB and modular now) I'm sure some bright spark with the know how could build a simple standalone version using an arduino, I always had the vision but never the technical knowledge. I'm more patch cords and knobs than ones and zeros's! Thanks for another great video Hainbach.
Das Gerät könnte vom Konzept her eine Renaissance vertragen- Sampling Zeit ist ja heute kein Problem, noch Einzelausgänge dazu und es gäbe bereits einen Käufer 😎
the new isla instruments sp2400 only has 8 faders but a lot of other advantages including sample per fader and analog filters... maybe some combination of the two would be ideal
Would love to see a plug-in emulation that made keen use of inexpensive MIDI controllers that offer faders: thinking nanokontrol, launch control xl etc. Faders set to send MIDI notes…to a Ableton’s Simpler in slice mode? Or…to rewire my brain to emulate with the Octatrack…
The start/end sliders remind me of the Akai S612. That was my favorite part of that sampler, since you can really change the samples. It came out about 20 years before the Faderboard and I suspect it may have inspired that particular feature.
Good video. Thank you for the insides of this machine. Yes I never 'heard' of this but had my hands on it at the Musik Messe back then. Being a DJ I really liked the faders but on the other hand I could not think about a way to use it in my sets or as an instrument in production so after about 15 minutes I went to turntables to watch DJ Q-Bert :)
Oh wow I kind of want one. I've always been intruiged by tape loops and simple mixer/tapedeck combo's, but I've never taken the plunge and I could see myself doing a lot more with this.
Very nice. I feel like I remember this device but it might be some kind of Mandela effect. Definitely seems to play like a 4 track Alessandro Cortini tape loop. I don't have a tape machine but I occasionally create large evolving pads on my DSI polyevolver and record different notes or chords on individual channels of my boss 505 looper. Really creates an expressive instrument with the faders.
Thanks for bringing this back into memory ...Some great RU-vid videos of djs performing with this and 4 decks...as it was intended...vestax fader based interface was always solid ...even for vanilla midi controller or mix controller
These videos make me wanna try and go abroad. This is the stuff of my dreams, nevermind 30 second sampling time, you don't find these here...and I just LOVE samplers! Thanks for biggin up the unsung machines!
once you showed the video of the DJ using it i realized exactly how it was meant to be played. thats cool that u found a different use for it. id love to see more videos of that dj using it
I couldn't watch this video without hearing Mixmaster Gee's The Manipulator lyrics in my head. "Devastatin' dominator on the crossfader.....a cuttin' crusader." Man I have to listen to that again. This device truly is a thing of beauty. Limited but anyone with talent can get past that.
One hell of a curious machine that completely bucks the trend in the sampling world. I can see why it didn't succeed do to it's unconventional method of operating but it's hands-on-ness is nice with immediate response and gratification when you get something good. If you could just use the effects alone to process a signal, that would be nice to complete distort a sound into something super aggressive and haunting. If I knew that the unit was robust enough, I'd say... *MOD IT!!!*
Don't know how I ever missed this. I've planned on doing something similar with a Tsunami and something like a CR-1604. I'm with you on faders. For ambient stuff, it's the way to go.
Realizing this workflow using Live and my Novation Launch Control XL is the first thing that came to mind at the start of the video! Also, looking forward to downloading the pack from Patreon. Thanks Hainbach!
Love it. Ableton users: Live mode, sampler with your sample at different pitches on 10 different channels, use a midi controlled fader setup. It's hard to know how to automatically do the start/stop points though. This would be way better as a max device than what I wrote above
This is such a cool idea. I think I'm going to try recreate a similar concept using a fader midi controller hooked up to my Akai Force sampler. I should be able to accomplish much of what this does with the fading chords and and maybe add some new tricks.
Would be pretty easy to mimic a 7 or 8 note version using an Octatrack & a midi controller... Use scenes to change scale/key, use parts or banks to switch samples... Hmm 🤔 Would pair well with the OT crossfader too!
I had a project a few years back where I was doing almost exactly this with some sampled violin and the AKGW octakontrol. Worked really well, as you say using scenes to make up different chords. I might just revisit it actually
Failing as a budget musician in the 90's I remember Vestax. I know I had a Vestax multi track recorder, um I think. Possibly in 30 years your descendants will demo a sampler no one heard about called an Akai MPX16 =) Addicted to your channel!
We fade to red... (and dark grey) Stange instrument and interesting video, thank you for showing us this odd specimen from the Planet DJ Loading or saving time: I remember my Yamaha SU700 I used for my live gigs in the early early 2K (I still have it), what a pain! From floppies or SCSI it took ages! I got it with the full to the max (!) memory option and I loaded everything from Jaz disks, all sounds I would need for the gigs, at the begining. 2 years ago I bought a floppy emulator with USB stick, just to see. And it improved nothing 😄
reminds me a bit of the electrix repeater, circa 1999-2000! also reminds me of my old solo setup & setup for the band Polytown, wherein my only controller for a roland s760 was a self-programmed peavey MIDI "faderboard"! would love to have one of these, in any case: thanks, H! awesome.
I think that ISLA INSTRUMENTS' S2400, with its 8 faders, possibly could work. It sort of looks similar, kind of. The sampler has 8 faders, hours of sampling time, etc...
I wanted one of these so bad when they first came out, and as a Vestax fanboy it was such a bummer when they went out of business. Hopefully another company will might take up the cause? I mean it was powered by Korg, maybe an Electribe engine or something if I remember right
Shing02! Did not expect to see hom in this video. What a ridiculously talented individual. Not only a DJ but also a bilingual rapper. And now I know an instrument designer, as well
Not sure how I missed this video, but...when I was in my mid 20s (back when this thing was still quite new) I had a DJ/producer friend who owned and loved this thing. He was into the underground "alternative/experimental hip-hop" thing that was just starting to mature at that time. Basically mixing what would become lofi beat oriented hip-hop with, you guessed it, experimental and ambient techniques and other genres. Coming from a turntablist background, he played the faderboard very much like both you and Shingo did. The few times I actually got a real chance to sit down with it and really dig in to the faderboard it was great fun. Like you said, I really wish someone would bring something similar to this to market now. IIRC, the marketing back then was very much solely directed toward the turntablist and DJ scene - and I think it was just too weird for most of the market back then, considering what kind of styles of DJ music and hip-hop were popular at the time. Anywyas, loved the video, I hadn't thought about this thing in ages.
Hmm, I like this approach. When I get a Sensel Morph, I'll try to play my Blackbox like this and then run it through some effects. Of course it'll be different, but close enough for me. I've also used my HOG-2 in a similar way in the past. That's even more limited, but it can process audio live. Freezing a dissonant sound in the buffer and then playing the "harmonics", while filtering out some of the digital harshness can get wonderfully weird. Actually, my first live performance with a guitar was just that half of the time. It was at a scientific conference where they had an afternoon where anyone who wanted could perform some music... in a giant church (I didn't need any extra reverb :p). All the others did pop or classical things, but I went with experimental guitar, in front of most of my potential future employers... The people loved it! Two years later someone still recognized me from that performance, haha. Hmm, playing the HOG-2 with the morph could be really interesting too, the pedal has surprisingly extensive MIDI integration.
the start/end point feature is very cool, i used a korg guitar multi effect's looper setting for a long time just because of the chopping the end of the phrase off thing it could do.
Oh gosh! You show me another instrument that I really want but really won't be able to afford (and you know prices are going to go up). I hope someone does decide to release an updated version, I can imagine so many possibilities for live performance.
vestax created equipment mainly for dj's because I would go to raleigh and get the mars catalogue when I was younger and stare at all the equipment and study the linear notes
I think you've found the (albeit unmodulateable) DECOQUANTUS! :-D Great overview of a forgotten piece of kit. Respect for the deep dub cuts on this demo.
Daniel Lanois has a home made unit (?) that he uses to make whole performances with just faders. Don’t know what it’s based on. Watch his tiny desk session.
I’ve been doing something very like this with an EHX 45000 looper, based off Alessandro Cortini doing this sorta thing with, fittingly, tape loops on a Portastudio 414 I need this
Such an interesting concept. Oh the SmartMedia cards... you've just reminded me I should get some for some of my Yamaha products. They don't come cheap.
I think the updated feature set I'd like to see on something like this is removal of most of the effects, add a few more features for granular synthesis and midi ports to play it with a controller. Maybe a few vector techniques thrown in. That is my immediate thoughts when thinking about the fader format.
