Continuity is fun, except when people take it too seriously. I accept the elements that I like and either ignore or discount the parts I don’t. Creators do it all the time (whether or not they still work on their creations) so why not readers. However, I always try to keep things civil. Whenever people argue continuity harshly, to the point where they become salty and rude about what is and isn’t canon, I’m reminded of a quote from Alan Moore with Whatever Happen to the Man of Tomorrow? “This is an imaginary story…aren’t they all?”
Yes! So glad to see this covered so that a wider audience is aware of it! I've sung the praises about this arc and several other Rick Veitch stories for decades to my friends and comic groups. It's such a shame that these (and a few other guest stories) can't get a beautiful oversized IDW hardcover.
I remember reading these when they came out - the baby Ralphael was heartbreaking and the thought of devolving from a sentient being into an animal was straight up terriffying. Had no idea about the background drama preventing reprints, damn. Good video.
After being introduced to the TMNT through the '87 cartoon (I had heard of the original comic, but hadn't yet read it), the first issue of this storyline was also the first issue of the Mirage Turtles comic that I ever purchased, it blew my mind! I still have these three issues, and also the trade paperback with the painted cover by A.C. Farley.
Love this story. Like you pointed out, the foundation is there, but still being built. Especially in terms of personalities of the turtles. Bloodsucker is such a freaky villain too along with the overall vibe of the story. Love his design. Love the stories we got along with this one, so many unique spins, art styles and storytelling. Love that you are covering some TMNT! Love to see more along with the usual content! Edit: LOVED Mutant Mayhem!!! Glad you enjoyed it! Saw it on premier! It was a fun ride.
Great video as always! Off topic but I would love to see a video about The One and other deconstructive superhero comics prior to Watchmen (I specifically read Miracleman because of your recommendation from years ago)
I was too young to get the com8cs as they were coming put, but definitely have the TMNT as a core part of my fandom genesis. Now I want all those old comics and love the history and stories surrounding them so much. The 80s b&w boom.and the 90s indie creator owned era have so much great stuff.
had no idea these were hard to find i have all 3 of these comics still glad i kept em as a kid i thought there was more i was missing so thanks for that closure
I had a magazine with a turtles story in it, I believe it was a Jim Lawson, and there was a lobster mutant that I always thought was cool looking and wished had made other appearances.
I remember this story. One of the few good "filler" issues. I get why it can´t be reprinted but this once again shows how important piracy is to preserving art.
A lot of good stuff came from the "guest era." And yes, 'Mutant Mayhem' is fantastic. I liked it as much as 'Spider-Verse'. Def the second best mainstream interpretation of the Turtles after the original live action movie.
Ahh. That's good to hear. I was a huge fan of TMNT when I was a kid but over the years have become less interested in them, at least compared to Spider-Man. I saw the previews and thought it looked like it was just trying to ride Spider-verse's success so glad to hear it's actually good.
As someone who doesn't really read comics, how do superheroes pass through dimensions so easily? Jay Garrick meets Barry Allen, Superboy bringing Jason Todd back to life, CRISIS on Infinite Earths, etc.
Would like to see Bloodsucker in the new Tales of the TMNT show (my guess is that he views himself as the successor to Superfly, and he will be a rival to Wingnut). Although, due to copyright issues, my guess is that he can be the Mutant Mayhem universe’s version of Wyrm.
6:34: Speaking of snapping turtles, would like to see Tokka and Rahzar return in the sequel to Mutant Mayhem as followers of the Shredder (since Bebop and Rocksteady had reformed). Additionally, would like to see Superfly’s former followers become the Mighty Mutanimals.
If we could have another guest era for turtles , who would you like to see drawing and writing them ? I think Lemire could potentially do something interesting with the heroes in a half-shell.
How hard was it for Mirage to maintain an excel spreadsheet that computes how much money to give to each artist every time they sell their work? Basic accounting.
mike kinda plays into the 'crouching moron, hidden badass' troupe. unfortunately these characters very quickly become either just the crouching moron, taking away all their serious moments that they essentially become side/comic relief characters that are used to mess up the story to create drama. or they lose that jokester attitude leaving only the hidden badass, which is now not hidden anymore and the whole reason they are awesome is that their only serious in extreme conditions, which allows the watcher to have a "Oh sh!+!!!!" moment. instead their all serious and boring like 50 other characters.
@ComicTropes any reason as to why you aren't telling us where you find the comics that you looked into? It's important for us being comic readers to know where to find and get the comics that you are telling us lol would be helpful if you start addressing where you find these comics
Interesting to see these not-quite-fully formed yet turtles acting differently from how we'd expect. Gotta say, the lack of masks is also a little weird, right? You're so used to seeing them that without them they almost look naked.
I think most of the turtles already had their trademark personalities by that point. I assume any mischaracterizations were just a result of the turtles not being completely ingrained into pop culture for anyone past the age of 10 during that time, and there was no set, hardcore fan expectation on how they should act, either. In fact, out of all the turtles, it was surprisingly only Mikey who didn’t have much of his personality in the Mirage comics or really much of a role actually, especially in the canon continuity. There were only a couple of issues, or really just moments, that portrayed him as being the immature, silly one. I think it’s Raph that has more one-liners from what I remember, and it’s kinda a toss-up on whether he or Mike are gonna be the goofball for the issue, like in this story. Mike’s usually just kinda there.
The turtles acting "not in character" was them acting as teenagers who aren't flanderized. They weren't wildly out of character; all have acted irresponsibly at times.
@@dajokahbaby1506yes, I've not watched TMNT since I was VERY young, but I've been reading the mirage comics (I'm still aware of how they generally act in the shows) So far in my reading, Raphael has the most distinct personality, brutish and very hot headed and a little angry, but very skilled, Leonardo is the cool leader that keeps everybody under control in times of peril However Mikey and donatello so far really lack personalities yet, Donatello has been shown to be great with computers but he's not quite the hyper intelligent nerd I remember seeing on the shows (maybe I'm misremembering him and making his show personality more extreme, correct me if I'm wrong) And yes, Mikey so far has just been kinda there, but potentially he'll develop more as I read on, so far it's a great comic
@@dolier2802 Raphael having the most personality is because he was Kevin Eastman's favorite so he got more of the limelight, while Donatello was Peter Laird's favorite because he was a nerdy computer guy that was kinda meek and reserved, like him I guess, so I assume that's why he doesn't do much either.
Raph: I will show how mature I am by letting go of this small creature, because even if I am disgusted by its existence I am no one to take its life. The leech: That was your fist mistake.
Bloodsucker is such a cool concept! A vampiric mutant leech that came into existence because the Turtles didn't think that far ahead and were just goofing around? It would make for a great antagonist in a movie like Mutant Mayhem or a show today because of how it deals with them growing up
There’s actually continuity in a following issue about mermen - where Raphael is asked if he wants to talk about what happened, to which he replies negatively to.
I really wish they could have retained the rights to Bloodsucker. He would have made a fantastic addition to the Turtles' rogues gallery. Imagine what other writers and artists could have done with the character.
@@mrmikermac that's cool like how many years ago was that, like recently or later in your life? Just wondering so when ever I get to read it. Like what comic store and mall. Sorry if I'm to noisy just curious 😅
One of my absolute favourite TMNT stories from one of favourite TMNT artists. When I first started collecting TMNT comics Rick Veitch’s ‘Sky Highway’ issue was the latest book on the stands and it really made an impression on 14 year old me. It was very different from the Eastman & Laird stories I had been ravenously consuming initially, but in the best possible way. I immediately sought out ‘The River’ from the back issue boxes and it quickly became one of my favourite stories
I actually like to see the Turtles show some variety in their personality; especially since they've become so type-casted in their roles, even to the point of Flanderization. Seeing Raphael be whimsical and introspective is a desired deviation from the typical 'irate meathead' schtick in most TMNT iterations.
I think that’s why the last ronin storyline go so many good reviews(haven’t read the whole thing myself yet). When you think of the turtles you don’t think of Miley being the bad ass last man standing super ninja.
This is a good point. Having the Turtles doing things that don't just fit the narrow stereotypes they've steadily taken on for personalities is kind of a breath of fresh air, and I honestly didn't find it _completely_ out of character in either situation covered here. Sure, Raph is the hothead of the brothers, but he's just as quick to say "screw this" to things like meditation and the more metaphysical aspects of their ninja training (he's the one who storms out on the meditation session in the first live-action movie, after all). Plus, back when I read that particular arc, I always interpreted the refusal to bow, and his screwing off to play in the river to be less an act of immaturity, more one of rudeness and disrespect. Splinter is both their father _and_ their sensei, and in most martial arts disciplines, not bowing to your sensei at the beginning and end of a teaching session is considered disrespectful and rude. So, Raph's being a jerk, and his brothers rightfully call him on being both kind of a dick to their parent/teacher, but also for sloughing off on training. And as for Leo going postal and chopping the leech up in the initial encounter, it's unsurprising, imo. Leo's characterization in both the Mirage comics and similarly in the live-action movies read as "respectful, straightforward leader...who can in fact suddenly lose his temper and a good bit of his skill/self-control with it." It's a thing we see particularly in the first live-action movie, both when Raph gets jumped by the Foot Clan and nearly killed, and later when Shredder says the infamous "Ah, the rat...so it has a name. It _had_ a name..." line about Splinter. Leo's the first to see red and go on the offensive, without any of his usual control and precision.
It's funny that Eastman & Laird laid out nearly an exact path for Todd McFarlane with Spawn. Start a creator-owned hit comic, go straight to merchandising and tie-ins, hire guest writers who complicate future rights and royalties, return to your own comic years later. Spawn had those early guest writers (Sim, Gaiman, etc) for publicity but I think McFarlane also knew he's get lasting lore and characters out of them. And now Angela (sorry Aldrif Odinsdottir) been part of Marvel for ten years after just seven at Image.
I want to make an independent comic myself and hire writers to do chapters with their own characters and as such when I publish it I want to be sharing creation rights fully with the writers of those characters and chapters. Integrity is more important than money and the industry needs to change.@@Nono-hk3is
The battle for creative rights involving the turtle is always fascinating. With how the Eastman was such a big proponent and then asking for the guest artists to sign away rights always seemed strange. Have you ever talked about the behind the scenes issue of Tundra comics?
I havent read or even SEEN these issues since I was a little kid. The screaming Donatello and the group covers where Michaelango's nunchuck chains were insanely long brought me right back to 4th grade. I remember there being an eerie narration over the panels of this story that gave it a sense of fear. And when Raphael ultimately gets his powers back after being stuck as a baby turtle who could only sy "Mew", his first words were " 'Mew' my arse! Anybody got a brew?" ...which led me to hide this issue from my parents. Lol
I remember buying these from a quarter bin in the mid-1990s, because I thought the covers were cool. I ended up getting most of the original Mirage run that way, actually! I really lucked out, because as soon as the 2003 TMNT cartoon started, all the prices on Mirage comics shot right up, and they've only continued to climb.
This episode blew my mind. It turns out, the first issue of this run was just sitting on the bookshelf in my fourth grade classroom. If only I had some idea back then what I was looking at...
I remember my brother and I in the early 00s visiting a local comic shop. We found so many TMNT comics and this arc was amongst them. Granted our exposure to TMNT was the movies and cartoons. These comic terrified me and fascinated me. I never knew the comics were like this.
I love the very first issue. Also I loved the first cartoon era, since I was a little kid at that time. Now I really appreciate the story of the early years, the way the creators got started and did it their way. Very inspirational.
I only had a few TMNT comics as a kid but I remember The River because it was a story that stuck with me ever since I read it in 89. Definitely the best TMNT story I've ever read and one of the most memorable and chilling comics I've read too. For years I would look for it in reprint and later in digital form and never really understood why I couldn't find other than vague mention of rights issues. And thanks to this video, now I know the rest of the story. Excellent work!
Man, I was like 8 years old and an avid reader of the Archie series. One of these issues ended up in my box by mistake. I'd read it regardless, and man did it push my brain into a more vast state.
well there is only way this story can ever be reprinted agian and this character ever coming back and that is when Rick Veitch passes away yeah that is the only reason i see they can ever do it
These were my first TMNT comics back in the day❤ They were rare in my country at the time. A specialised comics shop had only opened up in my town about a year before. The cartoon version broke about a year later here. Took a bunch of shit for liking "kids comics" 😂 The difference between the original comics and the show were night and day
@@MarkLipka sorry obviously not my first language. I dont know if you had something similar but we have jerk who gave money to "assist poor people and give them opportunities" but that dumb politic caused a 100% inflation and is only defended by the criminal population since that pushed them to dont work and live free thanks to the governtment. This day in argentina a third of the population is honest but doesnt have a job, one third works really hard but their taxes sustain the last third of the country that are criminal scum.
@@MarkLipka the populism of Argentina's government, in terms of policy, equals more people on pension than workers; the result is hyperinflation such that rent doubles every year.
I think the idea of Raphael as the "immature" one tracks. It's just how that immaturity is expressed that seems out of character in retrospect. If this story could be adapted (which it can't without Rick Veitch getting paid an amount Viacom would never shell out), the logical choice would be to have the emphasis on his immaturity be based on his temper and lack of forethought. Mikey can sometimes be read as immature because he likes to have fun, but that's not really immature, per se. Raph *is* the immature one.
Sometimes the algo scares me. I don't read or follow TMNT. I have read exactly one TMNT story. This would be that story. Which I only read because Veitch's name happened to catch my eye that day as I'm a fan of his work (Abraxas and the Earthman is my favorite Epic Illustrated entry). I'm apparently already subscribed to you, so some other video of yours pulled me in and clearly was as quality as this one. I'm off to figure out which one that was, and I'm half expecting it to be your Veitch video because, as I opened with, algo.
Really interesting, maybe the Rapahel going back to being a normal turtle is a bit weird to me, but a leech becoming humanoid by drinking mutant blood is good on my book. Really useful to know this stories as they mostly went unpublished here in mexico. Thanks!
Ah, that's not just it! I was going to order the TMNT Condempium, where I noticed it was missing issue 8. Issue 8 is the first appearence of Renet, the turtle's time traveler friend, Lord Simutanious, and Savanti Romero. It has to do with a cross-over with Dave Simm's Cerebus. Now, other reprints of TMNT collections, the issue is in there, but not in this one. Why is that?
@@ComicTropes Or they're trying to cut ties with him for his beliefs. Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nickelodeon owns TMNT, and they probably don't want that kind of political element involved.
So, I feel like calling it satire is misleading. It was more of a marketing plot. Asking what was trending at the time the answer was mutants, teenagers, and ninja. They had some turtle characters they could adapt to that and they piggybacked the rest off of daredevil.
