Friend of mine has an orchard and nursery, (Englands orchard) he has buried every tree below the graft union for the last 30 years and never had a tree die from deep burial or over mulching. This goes so against the often seen advice that I have to question said "knowledge" that is spread around. I think you did a great job, and the proof is in the pudding, your orchard is lovely with very healthy trees all in wet clay soil!
Thats a great point! I believe that in England, they preserved that old practice because it allows the apple variety to grow on its own roots and get much stronger, rather than only relying on the smaller roots of the grafting rootstock. American growers almost always insist on planting above the graft union, because of the commercial orchard practice of reducing the tree sizes for ease of harvesting. But some growers, such as Dave Wilson Nursery in California, have pointed out that if you want very strong tree roots but desire a smaller tree, you can always prune and train them to be smaller, or plant multiple trees close together, so they will reduce each other's size.
Hi, Mr. Chickadee! In the Ukraine we buried the tree for two fingers (4 centimeters ) below the graft union. We dig the hole 1X1X1 meter. It's a hard job!
I'm not questioning your friends good luck with deep planting (I realize it was common before the age of high density orchards) but I've had bad luck with it. I planted some dwarf trees above the graft union because I wanted standards, which weren't available. (I wanted them to root above the the rootstock & grow into pasture trees.) A few of them are now large trees, but I also lost some to crown rot. There were six different varieties & apparently some (but not all) of them were susceptible to it, so planting them deep (above the graft union) turned out to be a bad decision. (I'm assuming the survivors are resistant.) I've since realized that my soil is bad for crown root. Everything I'd planted before was on M9 (it's resistant) so I didn't even realize that crown rot was an issue on my land. I've read some older fruit-growing manuals since then & some of the old books describe crown rot & the susceptibility of different varieties as well as discussing planting depth. Edit/added: Sweet 16 & Swayzie Russet were two of the ones that didn't make it but Mac, Spy & Wolf River are now big trees.
@@ProfoundConfusion Cannot plant deep in clay of wet soil. The roots will suffocate. I tend to plant high and mulch deep where I live, that gives me the best results
Wow, if I had soil like that, I'd be a happy camper. Mine is damp heavy clay, cracks when it's dry. I use soil amendments and plant VERY high. Zone 7a, Delaware. Thanks for the good info.
Zone 8, northwest Washington. I realize the soil I was planting in is not as bad as some people have but just wanted to share how I plant into soil that has poor drainage.
My soil is the kind of clay where when you scoop out a shovel full (half-full, a full shovel would break the handle trying to get it out!) it retains the exact shape it was in the hole and the best you can do is chop it into smaller bits like pieces of granite gravel to fit around the roots. Somehow plants grow in that stuff. I manage the best I can to fit the roots in the hole I managed before I just quit because digging is so hard, and holes are so hard to back-fill. Then I clear weeds and grass away for 3 feet out from the trunk in all directions and put down a thick layer of sheep manure, much like your goat manure with the hay in it, then another layer of wood chips and maintain that for a summer. The earthworms will go up to feed on the organic matter then back down to where the soil is the right temperature for them, leaving channels for the roots to grow in and worm casings to feed the roots and the worm casings are cultures for the bacteria that open up soil and help it hold a more porous structure so it won't suffocate the roots and lets rain move through it. This seems to work the best for my clay and is only limited by how much manure I can move out of the sheep barn.
Ha! That ain't clay, come to my house I'll show you clay! Need a pick axe to get through it in the summer, no shovel will even go an inch. But 100% good tips for planting in clay soil, exactly what I've found over the last couple years. Amend partially plus plant on a mound.
Our soil is similar, and nearly every tree or shrub we planted struggled or died. We get about 100 inches of rain in the winter, plus we often get one or two tidal floods that last a couple of hours. Last year, we started planting in mounds and this spring the mounded trees seem to be thriving. Now, if we could just prevent the bears from breaking our trees!
Great Video! I have wild cherry (P Avium) as well as Bitter Cherry (P Emarginata). Do you know if i could dig up some of these small trees to use as root stock for more desirable cultivars? Thanks! Im on the Peninsula near Pt Townsend. I have some land and am starting an orchard. Do you sell potted or bear root trees? I would buy some!
Wild cherry trees make good rootstock, especially if they are native to your land. I will be selling bare root apples and pears this fall. Will have a large selection but not large quantity of any particular cultivar
I see that your shovel went in a few inches in your heavy soil. What do you call a clay soil where the shovel bounces off? That’s what I have. Concrete clay soil?
Our spring climate is very wet so The clay was not rock hard at the time of the video. Also wasn’t 100% clay. But if if was dry, it would have been harder. If you have solid clay that turns to rock when dry, you absolutely have to plant above grade and bring some soil in. Unless you want to plant something extremely resistant to clay.
My soil in zone 5b appears to be at least 50% more clayish than this video. With no modification, the clay soil absorbs water with no problems. The CHALLENGE for such a soil is the roots to be able to freely expand and grow when clay soil prevent such freedom. So I have greatly replaced the removed clay soil with 20-30% fertilized soil, and about 20-25% sand, 10-15% wood chips , 25-35% clay soil. The percentages are NOT that exact, as long as the new soil becomes so free-flowing in my hands with no resistance, as clay soil disply.
If the top layer of grass was very compacted over the hard clay soil, could you use a tiller to break through the ground and loosen it up before adding the amendments?
It depends what is easier for you. For a few trees I can break that layer fairly easily with a shovel. If you plan on doing an entire orchard maybe a tiller would help
Your thought about raising the tree up triggered a concept for me here in Crescent City, CA where it rains 75”a year with clay soil. Zone 9b. I need to do some serious grading to deal with that much water anyways, so I could use the excavation spoils to create some raised mounds for the trees. While I’m at it I could add wood in the base and create more of a low Hugel row-mound. Since I have a compact tractor this becomes doable; a serious project, but feasible with some tractor time and diesel.
Hi. I’m in Australia. Really clay soil at my place. I inherited my property from my parents. We have a huge plum tree that’s been here for about 50 years. Lovely fruit. Anything new I’m planting though just dies. Go figure.
Use the same plum root system for all your stone fruit. Peach, apricot, plum can all be grafted on plum roots. Check out my video on compatibility of stone fruits. That’s one way to get around your clay soil problem
Do a test, dig a small hole about 1 foot deep and fill it with water. How long does it take for the water to drain? If it doesn’t drain at all then you will want to plant your trees on mounds.
@@nickkasko2097 this is our first time seeing your channel. We have soil that is fine like a foot or so down , but then it’s pretty heavy w: clay. We are trying to find a way to plant our apple trees. Did you find a better way ?
Mississippi red clay is just like a terracotta pot waterproof fruit trees die from water logged roots clay hole hold water doesn't drain this is not clay
interesting challenge to long held beliefs. I have had an avo trunk rot when mounded before so perhaps it depends on the type of tree/environment etc. Squaking about science being the only route to knowledge is not the answer because the science is immature in complex, relative systems. Colloquial/local/indigenous knowledge exists for a reason, you even site this yourself in the comments.
All I said was to please point me to any science experiment that will support the claim that mounding mulch will cause rot! Both sides are basing their beliefs on anecdotal evidence. “My tree rotted when I volcano mulched it” is not sufficient evidence either. Everyone accusing me of improperly mulching have no basis for doing so. And I never say that my way is the only way. Anti-volcano mulchers seem annoyed any time someone does something differently.
I have had this discussion with many people and have seen no scientific evidence nor does my experience show that mulch piled up against the trunk harms the tree in any way. If you prefer to cover your bases and be safe, feel free to make a mulch ring. I have not found it necessary to remove mulch from the trunk. Been doing it this way for years. Mulch is full of oxygen and cause no rot whatsoever. If you show me a scientific experiment and not just “experts” saying that it is so, I would like to see it.
The tree died. I might post a video about it later. 3 of 5 trees from Adams County Nursary died, will be contacting them. Seems like something must have went wrong on their end with storage or Shipment because An Olympic pear purchased from them also died. I know people will immediately blame my mulching job but the interesting thing is, they died from the top down, the trunk was not rotted out. And none of the other trees were mulched (I didn’t have enough mulch) and both pluot trees from same batch died also including a pear which never happened before.
@@nickkasko2097 thanks for update. Planting bare root tree stock is very hit or miss. I always prefer to get the potted plants locally as I have a better success ratio, good luck and great video!
Do not listen to this guy lol. You put tons of manure which the tree will get used to and not eventually be encouraged to move out into the native soil. And you piled up the mulch onto the trunk which will rot it eventually. If you want to plant a tree in clay (which I have done many times), dig a hole and bury your tree a few inches above the ground to help with drainage. If you want to add any amendments, mix well with native soil so the tree gets used to it. Mound the dirt to the base of the tree and mulch. Water for the first time and water twice a week after that if it is dry.
Show me a scientific experiment that shows a trunk of a tree rotted due to mulch piled up on it? It’s a montra many people repeat without questioning the evidence. Show me in nature where a tree trunk rotted because the wind piled up needles and leaves several inches up against it? Who rakes those away out in nature? In regards to roots no moving out into native soil. They do move out, the manure is only there to give the tree a boost first two years. After that, when the tree gets larger, the roots have no choice but to move out. They don’t spiral around like they do in a pot unless you are planting into 100% clay. I have planted trees this way for over 10 years. Everyone who knows me knows I’m the guy to talk to when it comes to fruit trees. And I have the fruit to prove it.
@@nickkasko2097 i agree it probabaly won't rot out the tree. I use mulch to kill grass/weeds, you put 12" of it down and so little water gets below it, especially in the hot carolina summers that it can have a negative effect if trees are not deep soaked watered every so often.
