My biggest complaint is the lack of new structures. Her new stuff just feels like her being charlie or wagstaff. Just one new exclusive structure would fix many of the problems in the tree.
If they gave her any major new structures it would be less of a skill tree update and more of a character refresh which is what Klei isn't "focused" on right now. To be fair the skill trees are mostly garbage and largely comprised of character specific crafting recipes or percentage improvements to specific features of the character.
@@ham8426 Side-specific structures were right there, even Exo did something like that in his proposed tree (sprinklers on lunar side). There was a lot of potential but it was severely missed.
The fuck you mean, she literally has 2 new structures on Wagstaff side, tp station and Winbot which are technically placed just like an structure. She didnt needed new structures, she just needed improvements on the structures she already had, and stop being bad faith, because Klei did an awesome job at this. Spotlights are basically a free lanterns and are awesome during fights, for ocean, caves, all winter, and even early springs. Catapults have improved damage and 2 special attacks that add variability to it. Lunar special attack on its own is basically like if Klei added the Wagstaff's Thumper for Winona, and one could even argue that Shadow special attack is basically like deploying barbed wires
My idea for winona would be the ability to "invent wheels on things", where you can choose a structure (or catapult) and put wheels under it so that it follows you around like chester or a pet. So if it's a catapult you get your personal body guard following you, if it's a chest you get a free chester basically, or in winter/summer you can carry a heat/cold source. Being limited to one thing makes it somewhat balanced I think, and it makes you swap between what you might need for a trip, it keeps it fresh and let people be creative to fit their playstyle :)
While I agree that a lot of her perks have significant flaws (I agree on everything relating to the remote and turning on/off the pults), I think you're sleeping on two perks that make her a character that's fun to play as once you can access them. The lunar planar strike does a ridiculous amount of damage. Its DPS is so high that once you can put 2 crown shards and a brilliance in a gemerator, you can solve the inventory issue because you don't need 24 catapults to be an effective boss killer. You need 5 or 6. Your entire setup fits in 2 bundles, and you easily got the bundling wrap blueprint to store them because of how easily you annihilated Bee Queen after getting planar strike. Instead of bringing an extra weapon to a boss fight you bring catapult bundles. The DPS feels like you're carrying around wolfgangs in your pocket. You can't put bearger in a bundling wrap and unbundle him wherever you want to cut trees or even harvest farm crops. Bearger or pigs (or merms) won't pick up your logs like your winbots can. The second lunar cache skill gives you Wanda levels of mobility. Plan out and put down a bunch of pads equidistant from other pads and you can go wherever you want on the map in seconds. You don't mention this at all. It's the wormhole choosing skill but you pick where all the wormholes are, and you can have more of them. She's an engineer, and with engineering where to place the telipads you gain a massive benefit. (If you want to see example setups I can show images of the networks I built.) Considering a lot of her kit has always revolved around long term farms that take a lot of setup like varg farms, I don't think needing to activate surface rifts to unlock planar strike is too much to ask. Rush CC in the first couple years.
You can access more than enough energy almost immediately if that's your main issue, especially if you aren't relying on Nitre for fuel, or have the means to respec
you can't really access the crowns until heavy late game and by then, you'd already had to kill most raid bosses just to get to the point to unlock it but I agree that the plantar strike is insanely powerful, its a portal stronger plantar based houndius shootius which already makes it worth It to rush for. i also wouldn't say "wanda levels of mobility" her telebrella is pretty inconsistent when you have multiple in the world (pearl, moonquay, moon island etc) and its 100% based on how good (or how far) things are generated in world generation, which means she isn't as affective as wanda, not to mention she can't teleport through shards which is something wanda can do.
I rly dont agree with him on one thing, the catapult transport. Its already rly good that you can move them at all, so i think the tradeoff of them not stacking therefore taking up more space is completly fine, Wanda also cant have 10 watches at her all the time.
The skill tree is ridiculously op. I made a celestial champion farm…Although what I wanted to see was more structures, enough to make playing Winona feel a little bit like Factorio.
The sleep mode implementation is so awful. Even playing as winona and using the remote is just worse overall for boss fights. Making sleep mode not suck, having a toolbox and sprinkler system would really go along way to make this update not suck
@@ilyssa101 Even with sleep mode, the catapults do much better in fights like bee queen, the skill tree and sleep mode also make the fights much more cost efficient in terms of resources and fuel.
@@adriangutierrez441 I have used the new catapults as Winona for Bee Queen and having to continually turn on the catapults after they fall asleep just makes the change not worth it. Especially because it is basically unusable when I use other characters for the bee queen. Inconvenience is not worth saving a gem.
@@ilyssa101 I did bee queen with the catapults and they basically didn't go to sleep. The fact that they kept turning off means they didn't attack for 30 seconds which just means you didn't keep bee queen in range of the catapults. That is a skill issue. Also, with the buffed attack speed, aoe, fuel efficiency and barrage skill, 9 catapults with a gemerator can easily take down bee queen while you run around using barrage when needed. Using catapults as another character is fine if there aren't too many. Yeah it is not good for bee queen, though, it is not unusable, if you wake up a bunch before starting the fight, they can help protect you while you wake up the rest, and so it is better than nothing.
Hmm I think your skill tree changes overstate the strenght of the average skill in the trees in this game. Woodie uses 3 perks to increase transformation time,winona uses 3 to buff generators,wurt uses 3 to improve hunger with the king. I think the only parts of the tree that really need change are the catapult middle skills,too much points for not relevant results. You can already make enough changes with those altered,with less catapult and more neat things. I think current skill tree winona is already strong enough ,for a unit with little downsides,unlike say wormwood who gets significant perks because his downsides are significant.
But transformation time for Woodie is such a big deal and massive increase that it helps a ton, because it is a relevant number to increase. For Wurt a bit, and especially for Winona, most of the increases are just not big enough or impactful enough or helpful enough to be worth investing 3 points into, especially with Winona just having so many 3 tier upgrades that don't make a difference, while other characters seem to just have one or two, she has more, and that's a lot of points you just need to put into a lot of stuff that doesn't matter much.
@@CarbonKnight9 yeah I am specifically mentioning just the generator skill More efficiency on a valuable bar and that reduces catapult costs for gem, using pure horror and such 3 points are worth for good skills Only in the world of varg farms and such you wouldnt get value from it,but even then the farm itself is mostly abusing game mechanics
Like man, imagine if the stat upgrades were actually going into a unique upgrade. Like if you go far into the AOE part of the skilltree you would unlock the ability to upgrade the catapults to a Megapult that would like like a comically large spoon and fling huge boulders that would stun for a bit longer, or the rate of fire path granting the ability to upgrade the catapult into a mulipult with multiple flinging parts to tremendously boost firerate without taking extra space, or the efficiency path allowing Winona to overclock the catapults to let them drain 3x the power to temporarily buff damage, aoe or even range, or heck, have the ability to send a signal to all the catapults on the map to send off a rock flying across the map, like some kind of artillery, maybe not as practical, but sounds fun.
Wx and Wendy skill trees when 😔 Side note: if the catapults turned on when they detected you being chased or an aggressive enemy is in range, I would want a whitelist/blacklist system, because bee boxes exist and I don't want any catapults near my base killing all the killer bees during spring, so it'd be nice to say 'don't target bees or killer bees', and also it'd be nice to make the catapults prioritize certain enemies, like prioritizing varglets during a hound wave while you focus on the hounds or vice versa. Edit: And also if they just combined more perks, and made all the 3 tier perks with minimal gains instead 2 tiers (i instead of 5%, 10%, and 20% faster fire rate, just make it 10% and 20%, or just 50% and 100% for the aoe size or 50% and 100% for the generator efficiency etc). And also maybe, maybe if they made it additive then it would be worth investing 2 points into a lot of these, so the 10% and 20% fire rate upgrades would add up to 30% maybe. At that point, just make the fire rate upgrade 10% and 30%, idk. Good vid tho, sorry for the long ramble
@@verestoyjanos5013 klei very much does not hate wes, idk where you pulled that from ☠ winona is 100% klei's least favorite character, wes was specifically built to be a challenge character. and he hasn't even gotten a skill tree so we don't actually even know how klei will utilize him
9:21 if you have all of wagstaf skill tree side, you can teleport ground loot with you so you don't have to worry about carrying it all to the next location with the umbrella.
That is a great video and I couldn't agree more on everything including proposed skill tree concept. I gotta admit that in general I do enjoy the skill tree we've got and it did open Winona to me as a character and been very invested into beta testing her aspects checking every small hotfix patch. But it is blatantly obvious that she could have much much more starting with sprinklers but alas. Also is interesting to look at skills from game stage point of view such as early, mid and late game depending on which goals were achieved and how many resources are available and in her case is rather obvious that Charlie would be the go to early game because how available and handy rose glasses are but Wagstaff telepad web in the lategame allows her to match Wanda in terms of mobility for megabase which is fun. Also wanted to point out that in general farming for pur bril could be easy with lighting books from wicker, moonstorm and a lightning rod after which Wilson can turn it into pure bril for decades. Also wasn't mentioned that if a catapult been powered by both types of generators and shoots out shadow and lunar infused planar strike it combines effect of both projectile which looks quite awesome from aesthetic perspective but not very practical overall gameplay wise yet still making her a character who seems to be the first to combine power of both sides in a new way.
Running theme with these skill trees: many of the 'must haves' should just be base kit and rework trees to actually give some meaningful decisions. Wormwoods tree worked out well: do you go for crafting plants, summons, or mushroomancy and the AoE on 3rd hits?
For the issue of catapult portability, There is the option of just keeping your catapults on a telepad, and having another pad at the area you want to build. This still isn't perfect, since you need the telepad to warp where you want to go, instead of always choosing the closest one. Shadow Seeker 1 also lets you get free nightmare fuel from some structures. Shame you need lvl 2 to get pure horror before cave rifts, but still, that means you can use Shadow planar strikes before Cave Rifts.
idk why we didn't get any new base structures, the idea of a toolbox 'item' that can hold her tools, catapults and other objects while being able to repair them or something similar, its such a simple but nice concept and it sucks that klei just stopped caring about her
You act like you're the only person to take full advantage of Winona's free Charlie hit when people have been joining pubs in Winter for years with naught but a torch. Same meat, different sauce
I agree with your points. They really just made her catapults unnecessarily complicated to operate. It was all automatic, now I have to carry a remote and click buttons. You're right, the generator should be on on default instead of off. (Maybe it's harder to program🤷♂️ wouldn't be a good excuse tho). Heck, just let them stay active and only turned off when dismantled. Get rid of the remote and the remote-dependent skills. I rather just have number buffs than have to carry a remote just to spam click barrage. And we definitely should be able to stack the catapults in our inventory. Maybe even let us store an entire setup as a unit in order to deploy them all at once. That would actually make them more mobile. But that, I feel, is too much of an ask. I just beat bee queen. And gonna carry everything in 4 bundle wraps to fight toadstool. 4 bundle wraps. It's fn hilarious. And yes, she's still a switch character to me. That might change if she gets some sort of equipment that is as mobile and convenient to use against small mobs as an abigail/a whip/a hambat in wolfgang's hand/etc.
I feel the your skill tree has to many skill that you always want like 10 and at that point it feels you have only 5 points to customize your character which is the point of skill trees, just make a refresh with these skills and then make a skill tree skill tree that has customization
The bestest winona main? OMG no way such an authority!! Bro, winona is a character without any difficult skills. While i agree, she is a swap character and used for set-ups, i pair her with wx-78, i find a lot of uses in every single perk, including sleeping mode (no way, what a bad player am I! My-my! my-my...) Well, i can only agree with you about spotlight skills, spotlight was always pretty bad, and those changes should've been base kit. So basically, this update makes winona an engineer like in tf2. Lets say i need some catapults for FW, i bring them from the beequeen, or bring them to the shadow pieces farm. Thats for the early game. Sleepmode should be taken with a grain of salt, because it allows to save fuel (for early game when you are lacking gems) while catapults should be awaken. Don't y'all see klei's tendency to remove downsides? So, well, that's literally Winona's second downside. Which. Can. Be. Removed. And for the late game winona has almost infinite telelocator without range limit like in ds. And shadow branch is more for rookies, don't take it seriously. (Btw I'm more bestest, change my mind)
planar strikes and tps are so good that you can play winona just for those. I've been having tons of fun nuking bosses with planar and setting up surface and cave tp system (same distance for all pads so u can choose which ones to teleport to). It's been a great update for me
I'm sorry, im trying to be nice but how did you get the cats are portable means i carry around several on me at all times in case of a hound attack. They are a stationary turret and the fact that a QOL makes it so you can move them doesn't change that. I believe in another video you called Winona "the rock eater", i think this is meant to help with that. So when the 20 days are up since you fought bee queen last. Instead of using all the rocks that could have been for other stuff you take a couple catapults from your spider farm and/or hound set up(like being used as tooth traps) and just move them to bee queen. The materials to make cats and power (if i did the math right) is 6-7 slots. Were those slots taking up space for your healing and weapons and armor before? or did you plan ahead and make several trips so that you had a set up stage before you actually fought the boss? If you're already were making several trips then what's the difference? If the remote is only useful by the generators then why carry it around instead of just leaving it by the generator?
What if she had a backpack with 4 slots for items and 6 slots just for buildings, with the added bonus of using a remote for deploying everything on the spot
ikr? i was really excited when i heard of a winona skill tree! i started thinking about all of the different gizmos and gadgets they could add, all of the newly possible farm designs!... and then they just changed the catapults.
I feel like they could've just given her easier tools for mob control for farms or something. Like mob lures which can be toggled like infinite powdercake/a monster character/whatever which can be turned on or off with the remote or by interacting with it (its not electrical it's just useful for the farms she already makes) maybe give her some stagehand walls??? I know it's an exploit but we've been using it so long its like basically a feature now so its fine, some toggleable walls, (like obelisks but you control them directly (for like making walls the player can go through) I know all purpose duct tape is a thing but for balance I'd give her some catagory repair kits. Like a flint-kit using 1 flint 1 stick to repair any of the flint tools (saving one of each for anything other than an axe) and a similar gold kit. Maybe give her a thulcite kit too but idk how to balance that cause I don't have those recipes memorized and I think half of them use gems. IDK having her be the tool master would make her feel good to play especially for newer players who might be pressed for stuff like gold and need to conserve it. Also obviously give her a super durable pick-hammer/ blunt object Winona wrench because duh. maybe she can pull a fear and hunger and hyuck the thing at people for high damage (like 200-300, nothing to sneeze at) (not for bosses but to like murder a tentacle from safety or one-shot an annoying enemy who's getting on your nerves) just a "fuck you" projectile that comes at the cost of you being disarmed (idk how to keep you from just making and throwing 10 wrenches but I can figure something out maybe its like only 2 in your inventory or a cooldown unless you pick up the first one) (idk how actually phesable it would be but it'd be funny) and like... oh idk maybe a cooler watering can????? ples????? < (wormwood main) If we want to go all base-builder approach we can make her do something like craft turfs and walls more efficiently I'm also not opposed to just giving her the sawhorse immediately tbh.(the sawhorse quest is bad so invalidating it is fine) I'd have an tinkering branch and a construction branch like her thing being "the building character" has so many avenues to go down and It's infuriating that they capitalized on none of them. Her having charlie favoritism is also very interesting (and kinda funny) but I want more things for her to do. Like her give her passive rose thorns for her thing which is just Charlie going "no killing her fuck you" for her final affinity (and other things don't give that an entire skill point) (she should also absolutely get insight points by crafting items but whatever *kicks rock*) (and a toolbox but that's a given obvi- (id format it to accept like half normal items and half space for tools, repair kits machines etc*)
I think Klei has put themselves in a difficult design space to limit each character to 15 insight points. I don't mind having trees where you have to choose between AoE damage or firing rate and getting rewarded for putting more points into it or something, but when you have to put 3 points into firing rate, 3 points into this and that out of a max of 15 it leaves very little space for more interesting options like maybe having new structures like so many people would rather want or other new ACTUAL features instead of essentially "stat stick perks".
I disagree with you about sleep mod. It makes winona non-swap character. No one deploy catapults instantly in the middle of fight, they always prepare setup before fight. However I'm in a same side with you on spotlight, they should not be seperate from each other
The thing with sleep mode is the catapults sometimes decide to fall asleep DURING the fight. This has happened to me consitently in boss fights that have multiple gemerators and the boss decides to fly to one side. It is annoying even as Winona with the remote to keep having to turn on the catapults and basically a huge inconvenience to Non-Winona charachters. IMO, a good update would have made Winona a non-swap charachter by not punishing other charachters who try to use her tools.
You disagree probably because u don't play the game. Go play the game, tried that shit sleep mode during a boss fight, THEN you come back and give your opinion
@@Zanollo5 I played the game more than you played. I've been testing winona skilltree since its beta. However I've not tested giant catapult setup in a boss fight.
I've said it about a dozen times, but the skill trees don't work at all and are just updates for updates sake to generate engagement and keep the game relevant even if it makes the game worse in the long run. Its all just to squeeze the last drop of MTX money they can out of DST before it stops being profitable to spend any dev time on it at all which after these updates might be sooner than later.
Yes firing faster is strictly more desirable. It sounds like you haven't played or at very least don't have the mindset of a skill tree type game, like borderlands. Klei had just been doing character updates and so this is a weird change and not many survival games that I can think of have different characters each with a skill tree. This is a unique style. But if we take borderlands as an example what are the skills like there. Mostly number buffs for a specific situation. +3% per skill point into critical damage. +2 per skill point of launcher magazine size, Etc. dst has a harder time with this and some work but skills can't all be I get a +3 berries from each regular berry bush. The point of the skill system is that it's not base kit and you have to choose. It's weird for dst to have skill trees because in borderlands each character is largely the same without their special move and skill tree, Everyone starts the same. Dst everyone is unique before the skill trees and it makes it a tad weird. Also I think there are too many skill points in dst. It should be trying to focus on certain things instead of just choosing what you won't pick up.
The issue tho is that the ideas in and mechanics in the skill tree are fundamentally flawed. For klei to remove the largest issues they would need to do a rework. Something’s can be changed quickly but others, like her not having any new buildings, wouldn’t be able to be changed.
Don’t starve together seems to have more stuff in it compared to the base single player game. I’m still learning how to play and survive through the seasons so I’ll start dst when I’m somewhat “good”
And it's actually disappointing that I was expecting at least more team skills for Winona. What can Winona bring to the team that will benefit others? Duct tape? I mean, she had great potential to get great command skills, since she doesn't have unique magical abilities like pyrokinesis, lycanthropy, shadow magic, etc. Her strength lies in science and mechanics and I would expect that to make her a more interesting and desirable character to play with others.
its so hard to watch more than 5 mins of ur content just because you perma "brag" or remind everyone that ure a winona main and how good you are, lower ur ego its really hard to take ur pov in consideration when u have such ego.
I think your biggest complaint comes from lack of content, and lack of quality of live for mega base’ style of playing. I think Winona is pretty fun with her skill tree to rush bosses. You have to micro well to give commands to catapults. Teleports are very cool, especially worm hole teleports bcs they are free, additional mobility because of the bridges, you don’t have to worry about Charly is also very neat. A lot of free resources for early game because of the hats. But I really dislike inventory management, in solo you basically have to find Chester, in public servers you are the person who takes the Chester for yourself, bcs you need these 9 slots for 8 catapults and generator. Plus additional problem is that you cannot bring Chester in the caves, so basically you are super weak during ruins rush unless you already have beef and piggy backpack with you, which is still not enough. We don’t have too much bosses in the caves, but settings things up for them with small inventory it is such huge pain in the ass.
I hope Klei will correct their mistakes and fix the reworks of Winona and Wurt. Or hopefully someone will make a quality mod for the new skill tree. Or I will specifically start learning programming to do it myself. These are the worst "improvements" I've seen. Rework Wurt seems a little better, but still most of the skills are garbage. I like Wormwood's rework the most - I can't believe it was done by the same people.
You are probably the only person I wanted to hear from about this. And honestly, you hit the nail on the head. “Dragon ball capsules” That’s exactly what I thought. But kinda like you can make a schematic that you can place all the structures into. And then place all at once. Considering that there is nothing blocking the way.
The nerf on catapults with this stupid sleep mode killed both the character and the game for me. I liked to kill Bee Queen and AF with other characters with the "help" from Catapults against their minions. Because this stupid nerf now it is impossible. Klei tried force me to use Winona as a character. Well, Klei... I do prefer quit your game. Bye
Exo, you love complaining don't you? This skill tree makes catapults much better, they attack faster, have a much bigger aoe and the fuel lasts twice as long. The spotlight becomes useful with the big aoe, it also giving heat makes moving around the base in winter better. Also your obsession with combining skills is weird, you are greedy for skill points, two points to make the spotlight much better is a good investment. 3 skill points to make the catapult fire 20% faster is fine, compared to worm wood who can spend 3 skill points to get mushrooms from planters 87.5% faster! The bigger aoe on catapults makes some farms better, it is less likely for movs to survive and eat the drops. The aoe and generator fuel efficiency also make farming bee queen better, you need less fuel and your catapults take out all the smaller bees easier, it also makes catapults better at preventing fuel weaver from healing.
@@Zanollo5 You can just turn on the catapults with the remote. It is like how you needed to put in fuel to turn them on before, but you don't need to waste fuel so it is better. You should not be so rude, especially when you are wrong.
@@adriangutierrez441 if you are playing another character, the catapults are useless. And if you are attacking FW ou BQ with Winona than use the remote is a chore. Again: play the FUCKING game, AFTER THAT, AND JUST AFTER THAT, make a comment. You guys see vídeos and "play forum", all comments are theory, not practice. Tks for nothing
@@Zanollo5 I am talking about playing Winona. I just tried catapults vs bee queen and only in the last phase did some catapults go to sleep, but it didn't matter since bee queen died before I woke them up. If you use fewer catapults than I did you wouldn't have this problem. Also the increased aoe, and barrage skill really destroy bee queen. For fuel weaver you just need to make sure he is in range of the catapults most of the time. Either way it takes 1 second to turn all the catapults on so you are exaggerating on this chore.
@@adriangutierrez441 no it is more than one second. There is a fucking animation that can be canceled by the boss/minion attack. Catapults now sucks. This update sucks entirely. It's good just for stupid idiots who stay playing in a world already done for 5000 days repeating same bosses over and over. It's a stupid change for stupid players.
sad that Klei is sometimes making very fun and interesting skill trees like Willow's or Wormood's, and sometimes its just sad und boring like Winona's or Wolfgang's. I have best hopes foitsr them to change some aspects of her skill tree along with new updates like they did with Wormood. Her being niche character is not an excuse to just be lazy with her.
Tbh, I think it's good if they just added the toolbox 🧰 and fixed sleep mode not being ass. If they did those two things she's good. I wish they gave the remote more functions tied to Winbots and spotlights.
Bro thinks this is a pvp game lmao. Bro self inserting himself as best winona. Bro got main character syndrome. Bro's ego bigger than walter white. Bro lives in his moms basement and plays winona everyday because he has no purpose in life and is a failure to his family.
