Honestly, the fact that the different stories don't line up perfectly almost makes me like this theory more as in a way it shows how while it is a pattern, it can be effected by how people respond to it. Trydda seems to be the one who got away because she saw the warnings of betrayal and actually listened to them early enough to avoid repeating the fate of Andraste, Mythal and Flemeth. And with Celene we are able to witness her sort of go through this same cycle and as the Inquisitor we are able to help guide her into repeating the tragic part of the cycle or being more like Trydda and being able to make it out alive and with her lover by her side. The idea that pieces of Mythal are drawn to situations similar to what she herself experienced is fascinating and one I really like as it aligns with her place as a bringer of justice (actually, this also makes me think of the Justice/Anders situation within the framing of this cycle). In a way it's Mythal trying to protect women from her own fate, but in the end it's their own choices and whether they see the warning signs that ultimately decide their fates.
Not Ghil coming back with literally my favourite theme and cyclical story of the whole of DA. Honestly there is a reason why The Masked Empire is the best book, do not @ me, and most of it is because it leans so heavily on stories and themes already established. The Celene-Mythal connection is particularly something that is so near and dear to my heart, there are so many things that connect them; the moon-theme (with Celene's name meaning goddess of the moon, which just a little on the nose imo but I love it), the solas-briala connection, the arbiter of justice aspect of their roles, the Andraste connection, the MORRIGAN of it all. There are more and I think I once made a post about it, but man, they are just *more* connected than you even mentioned. Briala has the same dialogue that Solas has for Mythal, for example, if you talk to her : "Celene is the voice of reason of the empire" is direct quote and parallel. I love that we can sort of end the cycle with Briala-Celene getting back together (as far as we know, they appear to be pretty happy post trespasser) despite all the heartache, but also that it might inform the relationship because Solas and Mythal and what it could have been once upon a time. Anyway, thanks Ghil and Happy DA day!
Ok, I only have one argument about this comment, and that is, Celene in ancient Greek Mythology was not the goddess of the moon, she was, in fact, the Titaness of the moon. Many people tend to get those two mixed up.
@@NehnBellanaris yeah I know she's the daughter of two titans, however, everywhere I've seen her she's described as the greek personification and goddess of the moon. Even her brother helios is called the Titan god of the sun. so, are both right? Otoh, like all titans are gods, but since they lost the Titanomachy, they lost their 'domains' to the better known greek gods, iirc. That said, idk, I am not a classist but most often I've heard her being called a goddess. Either way, my point was more about both Mythal and Celene being associated with the moon and having a domain over it. thanks for the correction, tho!
Gosh, one cannot counter the dopamine that comes from hearing 10 minutes straight of well-narrated, cool-thought-out Dragon Age lore and exposition. Thank you for all the hard work, and wishing you well!
These stories of betrayed women, especially Flemeth's story, directly mirror the Irish myth Deirdre of the Sorrows. Even going so far as to use similar names, "Conobar" in Flemeth's story and "King Conchubar" in Deirdre of the Sorrows.
Raise your hand if your Gray Warden was in love with Alistair, but wanted the best outcome, so set up this situation for Fereldon. 😂😂 I'd honestly love to see this sort of callback to our world state.
It could be argued that the empress is the betrayer in that theory. Since She betrays everyone close to her. She betrays her elf lover. and her family's kin is constantly betraying each other.
This reminds me of the symbolism through A Song of Ice and Fire. You see story patterns because of the archetypes in the writing. Some things are parallels and give readers (players in our DA case) clues about the story of the betrayed woman, and some things are actually about the betrayed woman. Very interested to see where all of the Mythal stuff is going!
Return of the queen! I actually prefer analyses like this which pick up on a theme or pattern and expound on it rather than some other "theory" videos I've seen that just regurgitate info from the media lol. Enjoyed this a lot, kinda wish it was longer! While I don't like the idea that it all comes back to Mythal, I do like the concept of her murder being so vile and treacherous that it's almost magically echoed through the ages, like "all these other betrayals are imitations of the greatest treachery Thedas ever saw" type deal. It's a neat idea.
Now I'm tempted to set up this theme more thoroughly in my own world state. F!Hawke romancing Fenris and being "betrayed" by Anders is an obvious route, but I bet you could do it a number of ways in Origins and with the number (three!!!) of male romances who lie/turn on/betray your Inquisitor.
I've had this notification on my phone all day, refusing to clear it so I don't forget. Had to get home and get a cup of tea to settle in and give this video my full attention 👁👄👁
I have been sick for the last month solid. Between Ghil Dirthalen today and Random Side Quest's video yesterday, I am now emotionally restored, with the physical now only being a randomly runny nose and the odd headache. Recovery is within sight!
It pains us to know of the shitty stuff that you've been through! Wishing you the fastest of recoveries! Your videos are a part of the Dragon Age Universe, as much as any book or game. Thank you for making all of these theories and lore accessible for us, those who often miss the details (regardless of the immense love we feel for things).
Like everyone else, I'm glad to see you back. I was worried that you had grown tired of the games, given the antics over at Bioware over the last year.
I always read the masked empire as a window to how solas and mythal's relationship worked. The empress wanting to help the elves and the less fortunate but cant because of the other Nobels, and briala wanting celene to do more, and goes out on her own to help her people but is still loving. And i always got the impression that it was mirrored mythal and solas and the evenuris.
Mythal is the elven deity of justice and revengence, so it would make sense that some splinter of her spirit makes it's way to betrayed human women, scorned women in some cases perhaps as they are the more likely to visit what remains of her sacred sites.
Mom's back from getting cigarettes! We have missed you, and fuck this internet situation 😂 I hope all is well! Love this theory, I've had it since DA 2 and I was SURE after we saw Solas and Flemeth at the end of DAI. I think the whole arc of DA is about Mythal claiming vengeance for those crushed under the heel of men. I like the idea that just as mortal minds shape the Fade and give it form, so too do the echos of souls ripple through time and cause the mortal realm to replay the same stories over and over. Like spirits imitating a memory. They're probably going to try and make Solas the "hero" by ultimately stopping Mythal/Flemeth from pulling an Anders. On that note, my theory is we were introduced to Anders to get us ready for Mythal. As in, we got to see how a mortal soul can corrupt a spirit (where as Wynne was able to fully merge). Perhaps this happened with the shard of Mythal and that is what threatens the world. Perhaps this is another story that will repeat in history, but with way more power. Instead of a Justice/Vengeance boom at a church, we get a corrupted whatever Mythal is boom that shakes Thedas.
honestly if we hear nothing today from bw but get a ghil video after so long I won't be that disappointed, it's good to have you back! (still would take a crumb of news tho bw pls. pls we are starving)
I'm so glad I found your channel again dragon age has always brought me a lot of comfort as did your channel is my early to mid teens. I'm twenty now and I wanted to watch you videos again because I'm sick and your videos comforted me when I was younger :)
i love the concept of the women-betrayed story replaying itself through history from mythal onward ... it makes me wonder if it's intentional on her part or if it's just the echo of her story, drawing her and/or her aspects toward them. (speaking of, i would also note that mythal does technically have sort of a connection to celene and the courtly drama that's following her in the canon years (though it's unclear to me whether that's true in masked empire or just in DAI), since morrigan is at celene's court as her arcane advisor. not quite the same kind of "heritage" that can be potentially traced through andraste or the direct connection with flemeth ... but still there through flemeth herself in a way!)
It's also possible that Mythal left Elgar'nan to be with Fen'Harel (not necessarily in a romantic sense), and this is why Elgar'nan ultimately turned on her and supported her assassination. As for betrayed women, I don't think Trydda or Celene really qualify for this list. Well. maybe Celene does if you put her in a triangle with Cailan and Anora.
I believe Sera is link to the lady if the skies and was tyrddas lover, there's some links I found I made so many notes but the obvious ones being she's gay, she's an elf, and all Sera and Solas banter in DAI is suspicious around the sky and the fade. She can also tell you how the fade feels everytime you travel to one of the dessert places (hissing wastes???)
Good video is there anu videos breaking down charcters core belief.using myrhal as an example she was justice then became corrupted into vengance. Though every character in dragon age seems to have a core belief that corresponds to a spirit type. Allistar is duty Morrigan is wisdom Sten is curiosity Carver is envy it goes for every character including your protagonist. Origins its valour Da2 it's justice Inquistion it's wisdom.
As a cursory DA fan, I love hearing crazy (yet enticingly plausible) theories I had 0 idea existed. Like the Andraste-carries-an-old-god-baby... and there's Mythal frescos in the final fight!?
This was a great video, bean! I really love the lore history of the women in Thedas. It's a place where some very diverse stories and narratives for women come out to play. Happy Dragon Age Day, too! And sending lots of
You're back! I'm so sorry to hear you've been having a rough time lately but hopefully BioWare will come through for us all. By the Dreadwolf I hope to see one day!
I wish you all the luck in the world with whatever things you're dealing with irl! and I look forward to the content to come, but take as much time as you need
Lovely to finaly hear from you again, dear. It's a fascinating theory, and I believe it basically because it's what I would do if I was a scorned godess in need of a vessel😁
I felt bad when we all mass-corrected you about pronouncing Tyrdda and learnt you were dyslexic. Now you pronounce it right but spell it wrong, which given you had the video screenshot up alongside it *and* would likely be browsing the wiki and/or games for research, I feel like you've done it on purpose to create a running joke :P Or at least, I encourage you to make it a running joke lol Side note, did anyone else also feel for Ghil when literally an hour after this video came out Bioware posted that short clip with an unknown voice and three visuals of locations in game, you gotta know she's like "WELP, VIDEO MATERIAL JUST DROPPED AFTER I ALREADY POSTED ONE"
Thank you so much for continuing to make these fantastic, deep videos. I really enjoy psychoanalyzing the game with you! lol I'm gunna pass out when Dread Wolf FINALLY comes out....
Solas betraying Flemeth was the death of any sympathy I had for him, even though I know Kate wanted too much money to keep being Flemeth/Mythal and Claudia works cheaper. The amount of women getting mad at me online for staying loyal to Mythal and criticizing Solas is pretty telling of how women are full of snakes themselves.
Given that the Imperium is pro-slavery, I could see Solas having a hand in Andraste’s story. Especially since she meant to give the elves their own land. It would make Solas’ attitude of being done with our shit hit harder. He’s tried to do right by his people the less destructive way. He was almost swayed from his “over it” sense after getting to know the Inquisitor… It would also make that romance play through even more emotional. (I know they said the Inquisitor won’t be in the next game, but still.)
Come to think of it, other than Wynne and mage who hates magic in Circle Tower of Ferelden, there isn't a mage who actually believes in the maker. Also, Wynne didn't seem so faithful as well. It is more like an experienced elder who cares for peace and stability.
Personally I like to think that this is just Thedas's own particular version of the mono-myth; the "Hero's Journey" narrative pattern that crops up again and again in myths, legends; whether they're based on reality or just tales. If on the other hand there is something driving this repeating cycle, then I think it would be more interesting if Mythal is not responsible for it, but just as subject to it as anyone else. Indeed Flemeth's line "Alas, so long as the music plays,we dance." could be said to support the idea she has less agency in events than one might think. I guess if we want to look for a deep lore reason why this *could* be happening then we'll probably have to go back to the Titans. Perhaps the true story of their sundering is one of betrayal, and the allegorical echoes of this (the "music" if you will) unconsciously reverberates from their slumbering minds though the lyrium and the fade, into the dreams and minds of all other beings (except probably darkspawn, who follow a different "song".)
I don’t believe that solas is the maker or was the one who contacted andraste but I do joke he’s the maker cause according to the chantry the maker made the veil when it was really solas
