@@BaconSenpai Honestly I think he wanted to type in 65.000 but screwed it up any typed in 65.000.000 points but he couldn't fix it without admitting that he typed in his own record which he ofc never achieved ^^
@Tucsoncoyote 2019 he just stuffed the microwave meal in his armpit to warm it through. Then claimed he had actually absorbed it through his pit and it was definitely cooked and no you cant look
@@shady8045 Eh not the point though. Any legitimate website would not accept "glitch" as an excuse without at least having video proof of said glitch AND a verifiable method of reproducing said glitch.
@@jessstjames3301 they did that for the dragster score though, they just bought him saying that there was a glitch that allowed him to get his racer to go into second gear at the start of the race. i don't see why them buying that is out of the realm of possibility. also twin galaxies is hardly a legitimate website and the proof is above. also also i'm surprised i got a new reply since i thought this was a dead trend.
All of his records were deleted and he is banned from the leaderboards going forward. I think you contributed a lot to spreading the word about this :)
+ Purpleslimevsgaming 1 Well his name is tarnered now. So doesn't matter where he goes. People will know. You can tell just looking at this guy that he is a compulsive liar.
Just watched this video in January 2019. Googled Todd Rogers and I see Washington Post made an article about him being a fraud and Twin Galaxies banning him. The article was written January 29, 2018. Your video as posted Jan 23, 2018. It only took 6 days for this video to change the world. Amazing work Apollo - you truly are a Legend.
"alright todd 2nd place is around 60 thousand. if you're gonna fake a score let's try and come up with a believable number around that area." "65 million it is."
he didnt know about TAS bots in the future or data miners that could prove the fastest possible times and times that aren't even humanly that are frame precise but possible at best
Great video, Apollo! The score comparison part cracked me up! Millions and *millions* of points ahead of professionals?! Get out! Imagine applying this to real world situations; "I just ran 2 miles in 22 minutes" "Oh yeah? I did it in 13 seconds and no one saw me actually do it" IT'S TIME TO STOP!
NeoFryBoy - Alternate response "Well my friend did see me do it but you'll just have to believe him...oh yeah, and ignore the fact he's a convicted criminal"
Sounds like the Wright Brothers. Dumont: I created the airplane, and there's video proof alongside many witnesses. Wright: Oh, yeah? We created one years before you! Dumont: Really? Great! Can I see it? Wright: ...No.
Honestly, it's pretty impressive that there's so many people able to achieve a perfect score in dragster. Todd isn't one obviously, but the other 4 were 5.57 with evidence.
I have dedicated six to eight hours a day, every day, since 1982 to playing and training for the Barnstorm world record. Now this video is telling me it was impossible to obtain :(
Twin Galaxies has now officially removed the dragster highscore as well as ALL of Todd Rogers other high scores and banned him from ever submitting in the future. Well done sir the video game community owes you and the others who illuminated his cheating a debt of gratitude.
Jimmy Hollywood wtf are you talking about, why would TwinGalaxies being corrupt even begin to mean that nobody trusts speedrun times anymore, it's not like they are the only database of speedrunning times, or even close to the largest.
what i always find so bizarre about cheaters and liers is how they never do the research to find out whats the most plausible best time, they just pull a number from their butt and run with it.
Sparks N Zeros Well i guess it makes sense in a way. Cheaters cheat to make things easier on themselves, cheating properly is usually almost as much work as just beating the record
That is not exactly true, some cheaters do the research but the thing is they are not caught that often or at all if they leave no record of them actually cheating and it is impossible to prove they cheated.
I was going for the Galaga(NES) highscore myself in late 2017 until one day randomly Todd got a score of 15m that wasn't there a week before I started and it says it was from 2004. Really discouraging to know someone can just cheat to get world record when you are trying to get it legitimately.
Everybody knows the second place where Todd holds a record is the real record! Don't let it discourage you and get that legit first place. Also be assured all his records will go down the drain at some point!
quadro dcc Eh maybe, still more entertaining than RU-vid, more informative than Facebook, more nipple than Instagram and better quotes than Twitter so there is that....
Surprised you didn't include the WR certificate from Activision that Rogers supplied, that was quickly found to be fabricated as well. Got to love the Fraud Rogers stories
That one could make sense as a maximum score hard-coded to 9,999,999 internally with a 0 concatenated to the end since the lowest digit never changes. (I mean it should be pretty easy to test if there's actually behaviour like that, but I don't know if anybody has. Not that I would believe he got the score regardless...)
I put 99,999,990 in a calculator and devided it to find out how many times you would need to score 5 points to get a number that high. You would need to get five points 19,999,998 times. How long would that even take?
there are about 15.8 million seconds in a full 6 month time frame. So with literally zero sleep and getting 5 points every single second, you still wouldn't reach the recorded amount. So ever so slightly suspect on that being an actual record.
It was ONE time. ONE TIME... that I cheated. He flat out admitted it, and then immediately attempted to justify it. Priceless. But it was only one time!
I mean, everyone's cheated once in their life I'm sure, most just never tried to officiate the cheat themselves, and cheated more for fun that fame/fortune/whatever.
Nordryd I cheated one time, sure, but that score in Barnstorm? It was an honest mistake, I just spilt coffee on my friend and had my pedophile friend adjust the score, no big deal.
Anthony Arnold The only cheat I'm admitting to is being a kind modder, got banned on dark souls 2 coz some douche thought me giving weapons away was bad. Special kind of €unt, I beat a game before I mod (back when you could, only pc can now since modio shut down) Then I play with modded saves, for my own personal single player fun. I don't hurt anyone. Hell before modio I was one of the highest on the Dead Rising 1 Prestige Point leaderboards. Modio released, I came back and the entire leaderboards were 2,713,456,365PP which would take a decade to accomplish half of that legitamately. But when it comes to fair game speed runs etc and PvP I play fair. Coz I'm not a €unt. I don't attempt speedruns, only 2 games I have tried was Devil May Cry 1 and Resident Evil 4. DMC was meh. I gave up on RE4
Fucking finally. TG still has a long way to go before they become credible again, though. Note that it wasn't mountains of hard evidence that were finally considered acceptable, but only a personal friend of Todd who used to be a TG referee coming forward and admitting he lied.
After all the stuff I've seen pertaining to other speed runners who have cheated more recently (and the lengths to which people will go to prove they cheated), it's an absolute travesty that this guy has any credibility. The cheating is so unbelievably blatant that it's insulting to the entire community.
Yeah, Luuc is right, should have seen him go. It was a great run. Unfortunately there is no footage recorded because the Atari wasn't plugged in but I seen it, started in 3rd gear with no controller plugged in either. I did take a picture of it but I cannot show it because it would compromise the integrity of the run.
I mean, if he's managed to get 15million in a game, I would say, just ask him to get a much easier score in comparison, like 10 or even 5 million, seeing as that should be so easy comparatively, then watch as he absolutely fails to even break 10k.
@@shady8045 some games the scores go up exponentially like Galaxy Wars and stuff, but i don't think it worked that way in many atari games, usually linear scoring
here the thing he has been asked before and failed. not sure if it was live or not but its on tape of a reporter (i think) having him try the dragster one and he failed every time.
I got on Ron’s visitation list and they let me bring in 2 Ataris when I went to visit him in prison. I scored a .0001 sec run on Dragster while he beat Pitfall before even turning the system on. I can verify this.
Omnigamer is getting all the credit for the ban finally coming from TG, but I'd like to point out they were stalling pretty much indefinitely about that dispute until this video was posted. In reality, it was the case I presented 15 YEARS AGO documented in this video that finally couldn't be denied any longer by TG. Had Apollo not posted this video, TG would in all likelihood still be holding out for Todd.
I think everyone who helped showed the truth deserves credit and omnigamer maybe getting all the credit but I think that's because he provided the biggest piece of evidence not to say you didn't provide any. You and so many people who without knowing worked together to provide this amount of information and edivence to expose him you did amazing. even if no one shows appreciation I appreciate everything you did good work
Todd Rogers has been banned and all his scores removed: www.twingalaxies.com/feed_details.php/104/twin-galaxies-dragster-dispute-concludes-with-banning-of-todd-rogers/5
Kind of makes that whole "King of Kong" movie make sense. It came out before speedrunning got popular, and most people saw it thinking, why is there so much acrimony over a damn video game? But this was always Twin Galaxies' M.O., Billy Mitchell is in the club and Wiebe isn't.
If finding random RU-vid videos has taught me anything, it's that even if I have very little interest I a topic, it will still be interesting to me if someone explains it well. Subbed.
This guy is a legend for all the wrong reasons, I'm honestly surprised a video like this had to be made, I'm not in the speedrunning community but all this stuff is so freaking obvious that it makes me feel bad for all the legit people.
@@The1andOnlyWog I feel bad for, at the time, being among all those that enthusiastically suggested him to go after Mitchell. If he didn't, maybe things would have gone some other way. I hope that Jobst makes Mitchell pay as much as possible for that.
Not just the stress from the lawsuits. But people brought past racists remarks apollo made. He apologized multiple times but people still were constantly spamming and harassing him. He genuinely was sorry. But I guess all the hate and everything else caused his demise
@@lalotime Apollo had mental health issues. It wasn't just because of past remarks or others bringing it up. It's hurtful that he felt he had to take his own life feeling that hopeless about his condition and that's not worth demeaning by citing the reason for his passing over Internet remarks.
The Guinness Book of World Records has confirmed that it has removed Todd Rogers’ record Dragster high score from its database about two days ago. About time.
you can't dispute code, game coding proves it can't be done, it can't be done. Unfortunately many fanboys will just ignore logic, even in the face of true evidence
Takes me back to Elementary school, always that one kid who said he'd tell you the REAL way to get Mew and Pikablu and he meant it THIS time... what a penis
That example reminded me of some kid whose ass I kicked at Mario Kart 64 many years ago. He went on to explain in great detail how the game was against him, and that my copy of the game wasn't legitimate because it was "against him". I feel like Todd is one of those.....special kinds of people.
MY CONTROLLER IS BROKEN, THUS IT DOESN'T COUNT, IF WE WERE USING MY CONTROLLER I'D WIN! I BEAT RAINBOW ROAD IN 10 SECONDS! Makes me wonder if those kinds of people grow up to be the guy showing off his car at high school... 10 years after graduation
Dude, I was doing a speedrun and I accidentally spilled coffee all over my screen (an honest mistake) and I got the world record. Of course, I added half a second to it after I got my pedophile friend to validate it, so it should be alright to convince the skeptics. Right?
Apollo, we miss you. I know you aren't suffering anymore, but we wish you were here. Thank you for all that you did and what you stood for. I'm so sorry someone couldn't help you.
I used to frequent TG being a retro gamer (mainly ColecoVision) and I went on a crusade to beat as many of his scores as possible. After beating more than 20 of his records in games like Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr, Q-Bert, Carnival, and others, I tried submitting them to TG to be listed only to have them be denied with no reasoning. At this time, TG claimed that their records were recognized by the Guiness World Record books. I contacted them to see about having the records acknowledged there and was told that they were not recognized by Guiness even though they showed the GWR logo on the site.
I'll be honest I came into this video with a little bit of reverence for this guy and was a little upset to see him attacked again. The only criticism I had seen of him before was on Dragster and I had seen that particular-- not so egregious record brought up so many times I thought it was all of it. I didn't know it was only the tip of the iceberg, I figured the Dragster record wasn't legit but that wasn't enough to sully his prolific reputation. You sure changed my mind; Todd Rogers is a total scumbag, he needs to have all of his records (without video evidence) expunged.
Im glad to see open minded people that are willing to at least listen to logic and reason. And I agree with you, no video, no record. Lied about Dragster, what else is there?
Good on you for coming around, but how could it possibly not be enough to sully his reputation that he had a proven fake record already? Hundreds of records and you think he only faked one? Or did you actually still believe the dragster record was real?
With or without video evidence... hes already faked photographs, certificates, records. Do you think anything he says or shows can be considered legit?
Guinness Records made Twin Galaxies their official source for videogame records. In other words, Guinness knew they didn't have the means to check them and they believed TG to be reliable. Kind of Guinness's fault for trusting TG, but for them, all the "proof" they needed was for TG to assure them that there was proof.
That's just plain stupid. I really thought Guiness was better than this, but it seems I've overestimated them. Who in the world would take a few people they've probably never met IRL serious by just saying "yeah, we approve" without sending any evidence at all to Guiness? I want to facepalm so hard right now.
To be fair, TW normally is credible (as far as I'm aware). Also, most of Guinness's records are very easy for them to verify (fastest car, most plates stacked on chin, etc), records where video proof is (generally) absolute proof. Video games on the other hand are incredibly difficult to verify unless you have extremely good knowledge on every specific game and spend lots of time searching each video submission for indicators for cheating. Guinness simply can't do this on their own, and again, TG was and still is the main source for video game records, so it makes sense that Guinness would trust them. I guess in the end, Guinness had to decide between either trusting TG, or not putting any video game records in their book at all.
It's not just Todd Rogers. You could make a video detailing all the lunacy, incompetence, and dishonesty of Twin Galaxies itself. The site is a joke and has been for years. It cannot be trusted.
Twin galaxies is literal trash. For one, the "wr"s are all fake. For example, Sml's fastest completion is definitely a 16:xx. I have a 14:2x, and also, they ask for your zip code and name and other info🚼
Paying for submissions, and snarky attitudes about " this score can't be possible bc i have the twin galaxies world record" when other people beat their records, & no autofire are just the tip of the iceberg to showing how one site is so far behind the times compared to others for competitive games.
Ale_yoyo that was the only part of the video that i saw as a maybe. Police have auctions all the time so the videos would never be kept. So the glendale police could have just blew off this request. I can't say either way but Apollo calling them is legit.
Police have records of everything logged into evidence, they’d be able to look it up in seconds and have no reason to lie since it would have been a decade ago.
Well apparently the scores were believable back then. He just went for a number that he thought would secure himself the number one spot for a long time. He didnt realize that nerds would still be picking apart his records 30 years later.
this is like the people abusing the rewind glitch in forza horizon to put up danger sign jumps of several MILES. Everyone with the brain capacity to turn on an xbox knows they are fake and yet it takes ages for anything to be done about them and quite often some stay in place anyway, eternally tainting the online leaderboards. Also the people with 5 second lap times in a car with a top speed of 120 vs the hypercars that require 40-50 seconds per lap
And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu-- MAYNARD: Skip a bit, Brother.
i think we've all done that... i used to do that all the time... as a kid... probably under 15 was the last time... there's a reason God makes a huge deal of lying... and there's a reason one of his closest friends... DUN DUN DUN... child rapists. real honest group of friends he must have.
I can bet there is a feel good to beating the system or tricking people for so long. Now he is famous for it. I never knew who this guy was until today. So as lazy scamming of a cheater is he is somewhat daringly brave and in that sense I kind of have an odd respect for his sneakiness. Like Obama or Hillary. lolol.
I have little to no knowledge about Twin Galaxies and how they work, but seeing this and Billy Mitchell's case, makes me wonder how come people still give any credibility to TG?
I can't believe there is such thing as "Todd Rodgers fans". I mean, excuses about confiscated VHS tapes and coffee stains are as elaborate as "my dog ate my homework" and yet, people attest to him. Goes to show how dangerous willful ignorance is.
Yes and no. That's like saying you are a fan of whoever edited something on national geographic channel. That's just silly in a sense. That's like saying someone is the fan of the investor that gave another actual doer money to have a show or statue or school named after them. The one who built the school didn't have fans it was the person the name that was on the school itself but not even that really. The teachers had fans. But it's not fans it students to teacher. Maybe someone follows someone. I take the fan aspect in the view of someone that has a liking or following of any thing. I guess one can be a fan of a rock. True.
MacNifty Lol its nothing alike. I dont know what dumbass you are but its not even close 😂. The person/people editing TV shows generally have little to no involvement with the actual product, how its written or anything regarding that. People creating youtube videos actually create the content and have their own style to it. Even the companies that run via youtube have video editors that still actually partake in the video itself. You seem like a very deluded fanboy of a lying sack of shit.
altrogeruvah - Look at what happens when a famous person gets arrested. People wil jump to there defense. They think they know that person just because they seen him on tv.
Penny and Trans cheating is utterly garbage, honestly even todays games you can cheat the fucking games no lie if you spent 50 dollars on mods for bo4. Or gta v.
@@Tjerty Yeah it seems like the only truly good man out of the lot of all these old video game records dudes is Steve Wiebe. I met him with some friends at Logan's hardware in Chicago years back, he was trying to break the Donkey Kong record again we were all watching him live play, it was great. Really nice guy we took pictures with him and I had him sign my copy of The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters. Meeting people is fun like that, even better if you get to hang and chat with them.
Beast Mode I think it's a quote. Probably an excuse of why a tas can't get his scores. Edit: He said a spreadsheet showing all possible times in dragster was wrong because it didn't incorporate the "human element.
The Human Element is rather a disadvantage than an advantage. But i wonder why computers are able to beat chess pro's, oh right its the human elements.
As far as I'm concerned, TG has no credibility whatsoever anyway. Clearly they don't care about actual evidence, game code deconstruction or even mathematical possibility. Obviously off-number scores in games that only increment in set predictable amounts? And then going so far as to attack people that point that out? Seriously?
But are you _sure_ 1698 isn't divisible by 5? Maybe you should defer to the expert authority of Todd Rogers who insists that it is. He always knows best.
The discussions on the disputes filed for Todd's records are... Just ridiculous. Check them out if you haven't. The things some of the high ranking TG members are saying are embarassingly stupid. One person was seriously defending the idea of just rounding the 1698 score down to 1695 because maybe the 8 was just a clerical error lmao
The code deconstruction and TAS play the game in a legit manner (the way it is intended to work). I am not too familiar with the MIDI code of the atari but I know earlier languages like C can have buffer overflows from a hacking perspective that can make the system do unusual things. Has anyone ever used a TAS to try to overflow the buffer and see if any of these scores can be duplicated in that manner? It is an exploit more so than a pure fabrication but it is an avenue that should be looked at. This would still make the records invalid but at least it could give some replication to them. Also this would explain the impossible scores (divisible by 5) when the buffer is overflowed there is still instructions in the address that may have a different impact than intended. The problem is to overflow the buffer you either have to be really lucky with the controls or know programming...
Not if you take into consideration how few people actually care about video game records. Most people invest their time into stuff that actually has meaning and purpose. Not you fruitcakes.
bitchasshoeism, LOL! Is that supposed to be an insult? I play other games as well. I never once criticized gaming. Sorry that I’m not playing dragon games or whatever it is you and your friends play. The fact that you actually looked at my videos is cute though.
Wow Apollo. In TG's response to you they said this. "Twin Galaxies as a whole has entered a new era. This is an era where the truth matters above all else." The fact that truth is a new era to them should have everyone concerned.
It's not a "quote mine" at all. The exact quote is "Twin Galaxies as a whole has entered a new era. This is an era where the truth matters above all else." You can read it in context in the article here: www.twingalaxies.com/feed_details.php/92/a-letter-from-the-editors-regarding-todd-rogers-apollo-legend/5. The meaning of the quote is that Twin Galaxies has changed in such a way that now the veracity of the records is more important than other considerations. I don't know what else it could possibly mean.
You should interrogate speedrunners. "Did you really get the 5.51?" "Yes." "LIAR!! *Slaps* Even TAS makers can only go as far as 5.57. What motive do you have to fake this run?" "I-uh-well..." "ANSWER ME!!!"
The part about him entering his own records into the database I also read another source from him stating it only happened one time, and that he did it for what I would agree to be reasonable circumstances as long as he was being truthful about it. Submitting his own score onto the leaderboard one time for 1700 records wouldn't be too scrutinizing for a referee, especially if it was for a good reason, had proper authorization, and the times were still reviewed by another referee, but this is Todd we are talking about. It's been months and months of constant debate and Todd still hasn't been able to produce a time of 5.54 or lower, despite there apparently being talk of him doing it with video proof that was only shared with friends and family. This whole situation is terrible, because TG has so much potential, but all of it is being lost and they are rapidly losing credibility due to situations like these. Even if we stop criticizing the Dragster record, Todd can be criticized for so much more. Why has Todd's record gotten special treatment for the dispute process? Why hasn't Todd received backlash for his other records and times that have been proven to be impossible with a lack of evidence proving otherwise? Why is Todd allowed to remain silent, and even after claiming time and time again that he is able to get certain times and scores in present day is he not forced to put his money where his mouth is and actually prove he can? He wanted money, bounties were offered, no response. He said he would do it for charity, AGDQ 2018 or literally any other gaming charity marathon or even a unique one could be made for him to play Dragster live, nothing. Todd is represented by Empire Arcadia which is founded by Triforce, one of the sketchiest people in the FGC. Hopefully TG gets it's shit together.
I mean cmon, doesn't he just look like the typical uncle that would hide monopoly money under the table when you were young? I'm amazed that people thought he was legit in the first place.
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to this guy. I really enjoyed his videos and he comes across like a genuinely good person. Rest in Peace Mr Apollo.
I think TG will still stand, they did good by toppling down and banning a 'legend' such as Billy Mitchell. 'The Old Guard' is DEAD tho, and rightly so.
yes bit it was before internet ... so where would you go and talk about this ? and also he was bigger then life in a way. so people just believed it. people did not have the same cognitive awareness about video games that we do now .. we have simulations and shit as the video said
"He got a Twin Galaxies employee, who is now in prison, to lie about witnessing scores he never had." I like how this makes it sounds like he went to prison for falsely verifying speedrun records. XD ...but nah, a little bit heavier than that...
For the small time that I had been the head adjudicator for Twin Galaxies, I wanted to investigate this. This is great as I would have loved to have done this all myself. Alot of the people that are affiliated with Empire Arcadia are all fabricating scores and have their own personal referee's that were putting in scores that I could only speculate toward being fabricated at the time I had rebuilt the scoreboard from the broken mess that was given to us.
Well, seems like the Dragster WR Dispute thread on Twin Galaxies forum, which had almost 5000 posts of discussions, has been closed by moderation because people started pointing out your video there. Shit is happening.
As someone not involved in the speedrunning community I ask you: What the fuck do you mean he has a "biased view"? To me a speedrunning record is just an impressive number. What I've seen in this video clearly shows that Twin Galaxies is shady buisiness. It's objective facts, not subjective bias.
I don't know what happened, but this video was set to private for two years. Apollo said he would give his account credentials to a few friends before he passed, but when I asked them if he did so, they said he didn't. You'll notice the Billy Mitchell videos aren't back - I believe those were fully deleted, and Apollo gave Billy legal ownership of those.