The BIGGEST Deal In Dragons' Den HISTORY! | Dragons’ Den 

I think it's not so much just the fact that it's higher. It's the fact that the valuation of the company has increased 20x but the turnover and profit doesn't really reflect this and the projection relies on the increase in turnover from actually managing to sign on a dragon.

Right? I'd like to buy all of Amazon at it's 1995 valuation, please 🤣

My thoughts exactly.

They aren't realy insulted, the know exactly the logic ur talking about and with out talking to each other collectively agreed to use that argument to make the guy feel vulnérable .

@@meknassimohamedamine82 nah. that’s not why. They understand this concept perfectly well. It just shouldn’t have increased by THAT much.

Yes. In this case it's tough on the entrepreneur because the business entered a desperate state early on where people got a very good deal. In order to keep the business afloat, help it through a tough time and get it out of a struggle, they received a preferential deal. The dragons didn't like that the same deal wasn't available to them (the same discount) but the business was in a healthier place when it came to them. In the same breath however, I'm sure the dragons would be the first to say that if, after they've added value to the company by joining, another round of funding from another investor would have to take that into account. What I mean by this is, if a dragon invests, makes the business more valuable, then someone else invests to join in, I bet the dragon won't be happy if that new investor gets the same terms the dragon did. The dragon will feel like 'they made the business better' and therefore the new investor should have to pay a premium to buy in at the same percentage.

@@Jessica7318 🎯 💯% correct 👏

@@Jessica7318 Spot on. In fact, I was quite surprised how much this whole issue, ‘go to’ the dragons, personally, and more of them didn’t see through the situation, to the reality, as you correctly outlined above…….👍

Yeah this doesn’t happen on US shark tank. The UK dragons have the biggest egos and are the most arrogant but write the smallest cheques. 500k offers are so common in shark tank.

@@hamza361 Interestingly enough I think I've seen this happen on US Shark Tank too? Has Mr Wonderful for instance ever said on US Shark Tank: "Why should I have to pay X amount if so-and-so has invested a fraction of that for the same equity? Am I dumb? Why would I do that?" I seem to recall thinking there are more than a few instances where some US sharks who make the same argument hehe.

🤣😂 even he thought it was nuts

😂😂😂

His facial expressions match Theo’s tone. I wouldn’t be surprised there is a correlation.

That's how you do in sign language. :-)

🤯😲😂🤣🤣

First in, best dressed.

Exactly idk what they're thinking

I wish he had said that. They invested before tbe business generated as much revenue as it is now! They are paying for the pudding, the proof is already baked. The other people paid when it was just a recipe. They saw he (for some reason) did not reason about this himself and they leveraged his ignorance with guilt and intimidation. I wish he had gathered the sense to say that. They know its true, they're just happy the con worked.

@@HaveAGreatDayStranger the con worked perfectly..probably they should have just gone to shark tank 🤣

@@sammaartens4105 it’s because the dragons hold the cards at the end of the day. the pitchers came to them for an investment so the dragons have the negotiating power, so they can say things like I’m insulted I’m out or whatever they need to in order to make the deal as appealing to themselves as possible , the one seeking investment can’t be so picky as seen here having to go from 7.5% equity to 30% just so they can potentially improve their business, whereas the dragons wouldn’t leave empty handed by simply not investing unless they get a bad deal themselves which doesn’t happen often.

True businesses evolve

Well there are a lot of people who won't buy Tesla;s cause they want to say See You Next Tuesday . to Mr Musk the bloke who accuses others of dodgy stuff.

😂

Yeah and when negotiating the dragons always talk about the value they will ad to get a bigger chunk, works both ways! 🤔

Yep. However, the show edits down a 3 hour pitch into 10 minutes, so there might be a lot of context that's missing here.

Very good point about the house costs, they are very bad in California and Canada too, your money buys nothing anymore,

👏🏼💯

Move out of London then

Exactly

@@1yearago491 Houses in London don't cost 400k

Nothing but a negotiating tactic from the dragons. They aren't really offended. Often their 'doubts' are exaggerated to try and get a higher percentage of the business.

@@02smithm1 exactly. Although it really makes everybody (apart the dragons i assume) misunderstand their frustration. When I say I'm offended, that means I've had it up to here and in reality the dragons are just employing another tactic. Name of the game I guess.

could just be added in deliberately to make the show spicy

@Bob Shingles Meaningless and frankly inane response. Surely you can construct a proper grammatical sentence or did you skip English lessons?

Insulted??? and they are in business LOL.... silly men

Yes! 🤣🤣

YES

I swear they say that like 5 times when there are bigger investments

Not really. This pitch has been on RU-vid for decades. Part timer.

@@Asif-kh-n9r *Yes, in fact!* It got us clicking!

@koiun dwrru I don't know why you replied this on a comment about Deborah, but I appreciated it none the less! I was thinking about that when they went back, and was wondering why his partner didn't sign. It also seems to be a case of developed hearing loss due to age, disease or accident since he can also speak pretty well

Debra just makes it all so complicated

now i cannot unsee it :D well spotted!

There probably was, these pitches can last hours we only see the chopped and screwed versions

Discussing how it can scale just makes one investor weaker in front of an other u guess

Just have the seller hold the item until the sale is made. The seller sends you the items sold. The buyer sends you money. You take your escrow fees, shipping and processing fees out. The rest after taxes goes back to the seller. Easy, convenient, and safe. Could even have a verification service where once the escrow receives the items they send 5-6 photos for transaction approval. Keeps people from being ripped off with damaged products photographed well.

I think 20£ is the profit after all the labour involved

@@SirTorcharite Cannot be done like that in this instance. The appealing thing, and the core thing really, is that the business pays for items immediately THEN they sell it, when they sell it. So you basically have to give salaries for enough people to not have any delays even when the business is slow. They are probably bleeding money on salaries and not have enough left to invest in further growth. Hence the DD appearance. Increasing the volume would extract much higher value from the employees. Whether any of it is realistic or not, I don't really care.

The deal pulled through, he was mugging them,p.s thier company is over 2 mil worth

Well it was better the dragons didn't invest then good for them

They'd pay you 40 quid for your stuff then sell it for 250, here you are cheering them on

@@daviddoran8474 it's your choice to give it to them, you can sell your stuff on your own if you want and get more. They just give you an option to get instant money.

Don't read my name @weekend notes

Don't read my name @weekend notes

I understand the emotional reaction, but the fact is that they should pay whatever the company is worth. If he had two copies of a priceless book and sold one for next to nothing for whatever reason, the other copy is still priceless. You can be jealous of the buyer who was lucky and got a better deal, but you can’t get offended and claim that a fair price is not fair.

@@JuliuszCovers yeah but its not grown that much

@@sh3tpostsgamertime204 It doesn’t need to have grown. Perhaps he made a mistake selling so cheap. What’s done is done, but he doesn’t need to make the same mistake a second time by using the same valuation.

That's not the worst thing about money use.

@@JuliuszCovers its still insulting, the company isnt worth 3.5x more than it was. Its either naivety or greed and both arent good for the investors.

The devil is in the detail, that's why we are watching them make the deals...

yep, along with some really awful, bargain bin DVDs haha

Yup, like Deborah pointed out, the company's financials haven't changed much since the previous funding round (weak cash flow), so the dragons feel like they're being ripped off if investing at 20x that valuation.

You sure?? That's the crap the guy is trying to OFFLOAD hahaha

yup along with a bunch of bargain bin CDs and DVDs - _that’s_ the thing that should have offended them!

That's very precise isn't it?

yeah but when consulting to the wall am I wrong that they were just talking to each other with no signing?

The deaf guy was lip reading his partner but he misjudged the volume of his voice and Theo heard their conversation .

@@Ghostchanter yeah wtf was that about haha

@@Ghostchanter i was about to ask the same question

@@mzahra1 Finds out all her secrets anytime he goes down on a girl..

That was i was deliberating too!!Good point, but it was too high maybe 125k more befitting lol.. Don’t think they gave him enough credit though for all he had achieved.But turn over vanity profit sanity lol😚

Exactly, he shouldn't have told them.

They would have eventually know

Interesting point. But if he hadn’t mentioned it, due diligence would’ve uncovered the detail and likely then not allowing the deal to go through

50,000 pounds of what?

I'm very sure the Dragons will eventually find out before they put pen to paper..

Sales (turnover) is vanity, profit is sanity, and cash is king. The turnover was £1m, but the net profit was only £35k. Why is this unfair?

You know that most entrepreneurs never intend to get a deal they just want to be advertised on tv for free Peter stated this in an interview about dragons den

@@freezasama5802 Companies going through rapid growth often lack net profir. 660k projected turnover. And the fact they rejected and the company is worth hundreds of millions shows this.

@@freezasama5802 not most some do

Well it's not the Teddy Bear's Den. You should expect a dragon to be ruthless and underhanded.

Many can read lips and he might be hearing impaired instead of fully deaf.

@@MichaelBylehn and he’ll be very familiar with his speech patterns.

thumbs down for clickbait

For me it was always 7 AM hahaha

@@loganbombard374 Brilliant 😂

blame Covid....they do for everything else.

Ikr 🙄💜

She clocked out a few years ago. RiP lol

Isn't it better to sell them directly to some bookshop? Bet you would get more for it although you would have to physically carry the book and do some bargaining. That's how we losers do it in India lol

Makes a change

Really?! At 4:14, evidently he doesn't even know the difference between brought and bought.

TV drama, entertainment category

The term is to take something "personally" not "purposely".

@@Yobbie72 cheers bro, didn’t spot the typo! Have a great weekend

They have such fragile egos. Peter and Deborah are the worst for it.

Hello David. So I do believe I get where you're coming from with the comment here. Very often the dragons can go over the top with their replies. This being said, I think the show would be extremely boring if they just said they were 'out' and moved on. Entertainment value aside... one of the things that I love about this show is the business discussion around it. When a dragon goes out they can go out for any number of reasons, and often times those reasons can seem hypocritical. - In one pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, I can't justify getting involved. I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, but you know what, I'm going to take a punt." - In another idea they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you. The dragon to my left (or right) is in this space, so I'm out. - In a similar pitch they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you, so I'm going to offer you a better deal because I 'love' this idea and think I can still be 'some' help and would like to be a part of it." - In a 3rd instance, one of the contrasts you'll hear is: "You're asking for too little money, it won't be enough to do what you want to do, so I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "You've asked for a lot of money. If you'd asked for less, I could say 'I'll take a punt!' but at that price... it's just too much for me to get involved. I'll never see a return, so I'm out." - And sometimes you'll hear: "I like it... and I'm on the fence, honestly. But you know what, on this one... I'm going to be out. And you know what-? I could be missing the biggest thing. I might very well regret this'." - And of course the mirror: "I could go either way on this. I've been weighing the pros and cons. You've definitely got something here, but the question is can you execute on it and make it something. I'm going to make you an offer." The dragons have a very interesting situation in that not all great pitches have to receive money. They don't all get 'entitled' to investment. Someone who makes a good pitch might not get investment because a dragon is just in the mindset of 'great' pitches that day. You could have a business that is doing well, come through a hard time, turns the tide and is now becoming profitable. It's a great story. But the dragon may not invest in you because they believe the pitch after you has a chance of being something 'better'. Someone making tonnes of profit... etc. We see all these pitches and we root for the entrepreneurs thinking if they do well enough, we don't understand why they don't get investment. From a dragon's point of view. the good could be the enemy of great. A decent entrepreneur who's struggling but doing their best may not get an offer simply because the dragon believes strongly that later in the day they have good odds of hearing a pitch that is much better than this one. Now dragons can't know what the future pitches will be, but as Kevin O'Leary says: "I can make great offers for fantastic deals, because if you don't take it, someone else will walk in that door behind you and they will take it. They'll take my money and become successful." etc.

Props for?

Appears? I think it's obvious seeing that a sign lagnuage translater was there.

Well it seems as if he's able to hear the other guy when he whispers. So he's partially deaf only.

@@TheManInBlueFlames didn't read my reply too well...

Ok?

You have offered literally no new information

I think you'll find that it was a point the person requesting £250K failed to make and it cost him 20% of his business. That being said, it wouldn't have been lost on the DD that an early stage business would be a much lower value than a business valued later on - that is just the basic rule of growth.

They didn't invest 50k each, they invested 50k in total.

Exactly.

same with me

🧢

Wow, the was a book barn that went under in Bristol paintwork, I got my self a few coding books, however I have used zapper, and got £50 quit for what I would have given to charity. I like car boot sales, and this is just that really...

they pay you 1p per game and you need to sell at least 5 pounds or the app won't work, that company is a joke

@@thetriggerxp I hate these types of rip off merchants. I'm glad none of them invested. 😌

year 2 they 8x turnover but 20x net profit... yea right

Apparently the deal fell through after the show

According to their trust pilot they haven't been accepting trades for months due to "essential maintenance"

D C... very astute. The dragons get to leverage a situation where if he answers a question brazenly or boldly, he comes off as bullying or arrogant. Example: Entrepreneur: "Well they got this deal because we were at a desperate period, unproven, and they really helped us through a tight spot. They made a noticeable difference to our business and so they got that discount." Potential Dragon reply: "Oh, and you don't think I'll make a noticeable difference to your business? Do you not think I'll bring remarkable value to your business? Am I not worth the same discount? If I'm going to come on board and make this contribution to you, shouldn't I be paid the same way these other people were, whom you value so highly?" The 'realistic' answer is that these other investors were in the right place at the right time to take a big risk and get a sweetheart deal because of it. The dragons can pitch this narrative in a way that if the entrepreneur is very 'honest' with them, the entrepreneur can be trapped in however they answer. It's a lot like the word game the dragons play when it comes to valuation: - If a company is struggling, the dragon will say: "I'll buy in, but this is what it's worth today. I can't pay more than that." And when the entrepreneur replies: "Well my valuation is based on what we can do if you join us." the dragon says: "I can't pay today what it'll be worth in a year's time after I've been involved. This is what it's worth today, this is what I'll pay, and then together we can build it." - If a company is thriving, and the entrepreneur is justified in giving a little percentage for a lot of money because the business is doing so well, the dragon will often say: "Yes well I'm valuing my time. When I get involved, I'm going to make this very big for you. So this is the percentage I want." When the company is doing very well, the entrepreneur is asking for a reasonable price to the day's value, the dragon is quick to point out that: "When I get involved, we'll be making this much bigger, that's why I can ask for more." but when the business is struggling and not doing all that well, the dragon is the first to say: "Yes, when I get involved maybe we'll make it big, but that's my upside for taking the risk. You can't ask me to pay more today than it's worth just because of the potential my involvement adds." Now to be clear... I don't blame the dragons for this. This is shrewd business, and very often, the art of getting a great deal is knowing how to negotiate a narrative and see how you can get the best bargain. Sometimes that means selling the future hard to justify why you want more now. Other times that means 'blocking' that move from the other person, and answering: "You can't ask me to pay for the future today." and very often the dragons make these moves just to see how the entrepreneur will react. Will they become anxious? Awkward? Will they feel 'bullied' or even worse, made to feel like they're insulting the dragons when it's not their intent (but the way the dragons word a question makes any answer hard to navigate because it can 'sound' bad hehe). I do so love watching Dragons Den. :D

With a 30% cut

THEO THE FOETUS 😂😂😂

Lmfao...

And for that reason, he is out

Anyone got a tissue?

Or maybe a wide range of services and solutions to the aforementioned comestibles

Send me a copy of the most important part of the day

most of the deals are micky mouse money like £40K.

Yeah it does, i’m sure the company was worth 10 dollars at some point. And probably grew 10.000% within a few weeks.

I haven't watched the video yet, but I can immediately tell you your calculation is probably incorrect. It's not 70% of 70%, his share is 70%/130%=53.8%.

He's selling 30% of the whole business, not just of his stake.

Not how it works - it's not a company trading on the stock market so effectively it's not for sale

Absolutely spot on. It genuinely stuns me that these 3 “business people” didn’t seem to grasp this logic 😂😂😂

It’s not worth 485 million lol. That’s Peter Jones net worth

@@Darknesssleeps Just looked that up again.You are right Walter ,The message is still valid though about never letting your Ego get in the way of an investment. Have a good day.

Reading lips..

@@rikardandersson6652 yes so what was the need of a signer to begin with.

@@kevinjohnson9573 ...its a studio..lights blinding from the dens, distance, get a flow of comunication in tv. Is this really rocket science???🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

@@rikardandersson6652 you make lip reading sound like rocket science

@@kevinjohnson9573 😘