The Biggest Flaw from The Duel of the Fates 

In the position he was in he could have fatally sliced obi and the other side of his lightsaber would have been ready to defend

Kicking him away even, these spins and the focus on “hit the lightsaber with the lightsaber” is what makes the fighting bad, idc if you have a professional choreographer who defeated all four musketeers in a fencing duel at once, if he choreographs your actors to act like actors then it’s gonna look like acting, if you make it look like nobody is trying to actually kill each other then, what do you know, it won’t look like anybody is trying to actually kill each other!

@@wyattcole5452I think the analysis of this clip is a bit off. if Maul twisted his saber down he could’ve also chopped Kenobi completely in half, qui-gon clashing with the blade stopped that possibility

​@@wyattcole5452it's an issue in most movies. It's go for weapon contact rather than trying to hit the opponent/s. Also when it's 2v1 having one just stand there for a while waiting to be basically tagged in.

@@oliverwange8264 they can do better they just don’t want to, the directors with that patience rarely ever do sword fights

*It reminds me of how 🥴🤤 most Star Wars fans in the internet are - forgetting basics of how the Force works in duels - the Jedi and Sith can see the future several seconds ahead of them - which is why the lightsaber duels are so complex in terms of their variables.* *A Disney-Shill attempted to critique this duel as well - as a response to fans critisizing Rey's duel with Snoke's guards in TLJ - but whereas Rey's duel was laughibly bad choreography (a guard had a clean no-risk shot at Rey and missed on purpose at the last second) Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's duel with Maul is different - in that it involved clairvoyance (which Snoke's guards don't have) so the Jedi and Sith see the future and its risks and have to compensate for them by not taking certain actions (such as Maul not mutilating Obi-Wan to avoid Qui-Gon's lethal counter) so duel of the fates choreography is very much justified.*

😂

@@Percival-kl9yylol can see the future… until they can’t. Nothing is perfect and neither are the light saber duels in the prequels.

It doesn't work like that​@@ToTheNines87368

Seriously tho

Darth plagues dosnt knew maul exist

​@@FirieifjcjfbdkdjekDjkdndldhdkHe did he told sidious to only train maul as an sith assassin because of the rule of two but sidious didn't listen to him and trained maul for 18 years without Plaugius knowing

​@@mrkakaboboexactly

That’s also legends, not canon.

​@@dustinwalls5960it was Canon until Disney, inwhich case fuck Disney anyway

Right? Mistakes were made. Nobody's perfect. No deep lore for why someone turned and left themselves open.

Yes but the most seasoned of fighters will tell you to never turn your back on your opponent lmao

@@thesaltshaker704yet professionals do this quite often.

@@zacharybryant3865 Sword fighters in movies especially.

Completely agree, was thinking the same

Exactly. I imagine sith apprentices by then knew that they were expendable to a degree, and he obviously didn't wanna die and be replaced.

@@andrewterry6538of course Maul knew he was expendable. Maul understood that he and Palpatine would overthrow Plagueis and the rule of two would continue. Maul only became arrogant once he had defeated qui-gon and all but defeated obi-wan and it was only thanks to Qui-Gon’s teachings that obi-wan was able to refocus himself and notice Qui-Gon’s lightsaber at maul’s feet.

If Maul was struck by Qui Gon, Maul would have brought the saber down and killed him. At the angle Qui Gon hit on Maul’s saber.

And he was told to kill Qui-Gon. Not Obi-Wan. Not that he wouldn't try to kill Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan wasn't his main target.

That does NOT compute. Overextend himself? He positions his saber on his far-right side and holds it there waiting for Jin to aim for it. His entire back was already exposed. Whereas had he actually swirled his lightsaber over his hands as he had been doing the whole fight, showing of his twirls, he could've actually protected himself after striking Kenobi. The justifications people pull out of the air to try and defend Star War's plot suffocated choreography is frustrating.

And Qui Gon's own regard for Obi Wan

Yeah but Qui Gon aiming for maul's top end of the lightsaber wasn't going to help obi wan anyways.

Where was this fight featured? In SWTOR or comics? I'd like to check it out!

@@SL92018 the Revan novel. Don't check it out, it's awful.

@@SL92018 It's in the novel, "Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan."

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we call “plot armour

​@@Gamemaster15568frr

😂​@@Gamemaster15568

​@Gamemaster15568 obi wan strong with the plot armour 😂

@@Gamemaster15568 i wouldnt call that plot armour cause if he went for kill he died and his goal was to kill qui gon and not obi wan

Now that you mention it, it looks like Mual violently threw his whole body weight at Obi Wan to die with him if Qoi Gon dared.

That's exactly how I see it. If Maul just kept bringing that top blade downward in the direction he was moving, it would have sliced Kenobi in half. I see it more as Qui Gon blocking that potential strike, and deciding to save his Padawan's life, opposed to just going for a killing blow and losing Obi both.

As someone with a good few years with swordfighting I didn't see him strike maul I saw him blocking a strike from above

No, it was just terrible choreography.

Was about to comment that, until I saw your comment. That is exactly that, a defense from the down swing, not an attack.

I mean I think palpatine told maul to kill qui gon and not obi wan

Actually maul couldn’t take a killing blow because he was defending from a flurry of attacks after just having his own flurry defended. It’s called intelligence and combat effectiveness

Yep!!

He knew it would leave him open

Or maybe they are only human (ish) and made mistakes during their fight.

I was thinking the same, glad someone else agrees

​@@brighamrichins3in a life or death situation there are no mistakes. If a master swordsman finds an error in their oppenent's technique he will use it to his advantage

I think the same Qui Gon go for the blade to protect Obi Wan and stop Maul saber locking his movement.

@@theempire3141 maul wasnt master but yeah qui gi gon was one but even masters make mistakes in combat no matter what your skilled on occasionally you make a mistake here and there

Yeah or just Force push them from the ledge😂

⁠@@_CC-3636 might work against a padawan but not a Jedi master. You just act like people can just force push you. Especially in a duel. You’re more focused on the fight itself and trying not to be cut in half as well as keeping your force shield up to prevent your opponent from using the force to fuck with you mid-battle. Maul would not have been able to overpower qui-gon with the force. He wasn’t anywhere near Palpatine when it came to strength with the force.

I was about to mention the force shield.​@@youarewrong57

I agree…

It's not some genius decision, it's literally just a choreography mistake, where a fake fight accidently leaves open an obvious kill shot opportunity twice within the same second.

@@timbradshaw5481 I concede this is the most likely reason for why it happened, however limiting it may be. Still, I think if showrunners and content creators are to ever explore Maul's character more, it helps to have material they can pull from to explain the decisions he later makes. Whereas this might have been a simple mistake in choreography, it can go on to speak to weaknesses in Maul's philosophy which ultimately lead to his conclusion in Rebels. Indeed, Star Wars has always leaned on unspoken moments with unrecognized implications. At least, that's been my understanding of the narrative purpose of the force.

@@Sketchymage What were the weaknesses in Maul's philosophy? And how does missing an obvious kill shot within a split second corrolate with these weaknesses?

@@Sketchymage This has nothing to do with the Force or any of that canon crap. The fact is any half-decent weapons fighter would have seen that opening and any half-decent weapons fighter wouldn't be using spin attacks. This was just hot garbage.

​@@timbradshaw5481 I guess by philosophy he meant toying with them, or using Obi-Wan to weaken Qui-Gon, as we see Qui-Gon defending Obi-Wan and not killing Maul. Choreography absolutely should sell and compliment character. i.e. the decision to save Kenobi instead of stopping Maul. There are other comments talking about how the Sith line has been trained by Bane. I don't see how any of that factors in here and external sources should usually not need be consulted for something like this. Where are the two kill shots? Watch the clip without the guy pausing or slowing it. The weight of the saber throws Qui-Gon back, Obi-Wan does the same to Maul. He's knocked back for at least 2 of Obi-Wan's strikes and just has time for defending from the third. Killing Obi-Wan likely results in his death to Qui-Gon there. Qui-Gon cannot kill Maul there or Obi-Wan likely dies too. It doesn't appear to be a choreography mistake, but it's not sold perfectly by Ray Park. However he very clearly is stepping backwards every time they clash. The first strike even lifts him into the air, he's still reeling by the time Kenobi finishes the spin. "Lightsabers are very heavy" is intentional throughout. There's a worse moment before those two, as Kenobi enters the frame, behind his blue saber, both Maul and Qui-Gon spin at each other after clashing, Qui-Gon is using the momentum from Maul, but Maul could have struck him as he spun from it. There's nothing Obi-Wan could have done here.

Except these guys rehearse these scenes many, many times under supervision in order to get them right, so the choreographers/director should have seen it.

Except Obi Wan would have been in a position to block that downward attack since it meant Maul would have had to pull back the blade Obi Wan was currently blocking in order to hit him with the other one from above. This would have allowed Obi Wan to block. Do you not know how a staff works? You can't attack with both ends at the same time.

​@@kommisar.Except a blade would work differently than a staff. With that said, like I mentioned it was either poorly acted good choreography or poor choreography, so I understand your point.

@@christian11111 It was a staff with two blades, so your point is still moot.

@@kommisar. No it was a lightsaber, a non real weapon which does not act like a staff more like a double bladed weapon, but even still the ends of the lightsabers have no weight so even then it's not comparable. Additionally if you had learned martial arts use of a staff you would know that an attack using the center, or in multi attacker training, both ends, of the staff is a realistic technique. In this case maul wasn't doing that so I respect your position, but to claim I don't know how a staff works when you don't even know me, and are wrong, doesn't help prove your point. Instead stick with the first position where you rightly point out that if maul attacks with the other end then it leaves an opening for ObiWan to strike, meaning Quis block is unnecessary, and thus just poor choreography.

@@christian11111 If you have a straight weapon that doesn't bend, then in order to move one end you have to move the other. Doesn't matter if it's a lightsaber staff in a science fiction movie or a real staff from the medieval period. He can't hit Obi Wan with the other end without moving the end that he had just swung at him that Obi Wan is currently blocking. In other words, he can't hit him with both ends of the lightsaber at the same time, therefore him retracting the lightsaber to swing the other end would allow Obi Wan to block that. This isn't real complicated stuff. It's pretty self-explanatory once you look at it and use two brain cells. This is just bad choreography, and for some reason your fanboyism can't accept that.

That's what I was thinking. He went high to block maul's downward strike

​@@aeureus high ground

@@mistylover7398 it's over mistylover7398. I have the real high ground

@@aeureus YOU UNDERESTIMATE MA POWER!!!!!!!!!!

@@mistylover7398 don't try it mistylover7398

disney did NOT make the prequesl. do you mean IF they made it?

@@Johnadams20760 what? I didn’t say they created the prequels I said that they made it so Qui-Gon should have survived being stabbed as ever since Disney bought Star Wars, Lightsabers are nowhere near as lethal as they used to be and anyone even non force sensitives can survive getting stabbed which means Qui-Gon should have survived.

Bafta tanks were invented 20 minutes after quigon dies according to some meme :P

@@furiousgamerxz5141 and don't forget maul survives being chopped in half with a lightsaber 5 minutes after

@@khit007 yeah but he used the Dark Side to survive which was unnatural but now a days Jedi can do it and even non force sensitives can do it

Most fight scenes across all movies do this the prequels actually do it a lot less than usual. Also qui gon isn’t just aiming for mauls lightsaber for nothing he’s clearly blocking a downward attack that would hit obi wan who’s unable to block at that moment

Yes indeed. I’ve done fencing for a while, these lightsaber fights are way too over choreographed. Once you see them aiming for each others lightsabers you keep noticing it everywhere. Afaik the sequels do this a little better(but to be honest because they’re such bad movies I watched them only in the cinema and once at home, so I don’t know the duels as well.) On the other hand the sequel duels have their own flaws, and I prefer the prequel duels.

Yup. 100%

Exactly...ppl with no lives focusing on useless fictional stuff whereas their rights and lives are being ruined in REALITY...FFS