The Bonehunters Chapter 23 - What was Laseen Thinking? 

Fantastic stuff. The prescience of Erikson to start the series where he did with Gardens, and the patience to build up to this titanically pivotal moment for the series, six books in, left me astounded when I read it, and it still does now. This combined with The 14th becoming The Bonehunters, essentially announcing themselves as the protagonists of the series, and leaving the Empire, is to my mind the biggest watershed moment of the series, and why It’s one of my absolute favorite finales in the series. There’s that famous chess quote that goes: “play the midgame like a magician” and that magic was done here. The complex board state is completely transformed before your eyes and suddenly you see the path to the endgame. Magic. The cherry on top is Fid’s song, and after the heartbreak of the last 4 books in a row, to end it on a hopeful, liberating note is so very special to me. The way the story of Tavore and The Bonehunters is told across the whole series, start to finish, leaves me transfixed in awe. It’s cool to see your thoughts on these things as you and Philip make your way through. I can only imagine what you will have to say after The Crippled God. Until next time, cheers!

Excellent video! You lay out Laseen’s options and her possible calculations clearly, but I think my favorite aspect of this presentation is how you highlight the parallels and contrasts between Lorn and Tavore, specifically in the Gardens of the Moon dinner scene and this scene. That point of contrast - the different decisions made by Lorn and Tavore in response to their similar situations - could be interpreted as the theme of the entire series.

with that meddling Erikson out of the way, your rule of chapter 23 is now absolute!! and so the nefarious plans continue :) :)

After watching this, three things became crystal clear: 1. Your videos are SO helpful to reign everything in and help me make sense of some perspectives/motives. 2. Steven Erikson is unparalleled. 3. It is imperative that I read this entire series again once I finish. You always elevate my Malazan experience, and I thank you for all of your time.

What can I say? An outstanding encapsulation and trenchant analysis. Excellent stuff, A.P.!

The dinner scene from GotM, Kalam's conversation with Laseen in DG, and finally this scene in TB always stood out as some of the most interesting in the series and were the scenes I always went back to again, really happy to see you specifically covering probably my favourite of the three.

It's amazing how much undermining Malick Rell has done between HOC and the Bonehunters. It is a gap that would be great to know about. Just makes me more excited for the Jhistal. Cam, Cam, he's our man! If he can't do it no one can! 😁 Great talk AP. Thanks and good night. 👍

Thank you! I don't post very often on Reddit, but almost a year ago I broke my silence on the Malazan sub, saying "What's the deal with Laseen?" This 38 minute video EXACTLY answered my question!

Excellent video! You perfectly described so many layers to Laseen's motives and options in that scene. I love the comparisons you made between Lorn and Tavore. I didn't realize that Lorn set the precedent for these adjunct standards (unless I misunderstood). It's been a while for me, but I had assumed that kind of testing had always been part of the position. I'm also fascinated by how Kalam's decisions in Deadhouse Gates affected perceptions and decision-making with Laseen. Incredible how all these threads weave together with so much expressive subtlety at Mock's Hold.

AP, this was fantastic. I wouldn't have come to these conclusions and would've stayed in a position of semi-frustration with Laseen.

Close reading of this scene next please!!! Thanks so much for the insight

Great Analysis sir ! Enjoying your videos very much

Erikson has a reputation, deserved or not, of being more than a little bit cagey. Few characters capture that as much as Tavore. A running theme throughout the series is the leap of faith the Bone Hunters must place in her without any evidence or clarity. We see this especially as they cross the glass desert but it is also evident as they defend her without knowing her ultimate goal. Tavore is Erikson leading us, the reader, through the desert of ambiguity :P. We, who have faithfully persisted, are his marines. He leads us we know not where but we follow because of some ineffable quality to his writing. Laseen has elements of that guarded caginess that we see from Tavore. She is not open with her intentions or goals. She implies and suggests in a shadowy manner. Her guarded nature is a result of the sense of loss from the abandonment of the family when she took over. Ultimately, she is a sad and lonely figure. Her failures can be largely a failure to communicate and build faith. I am curious about the parallels between Laseen, Tavore, and Mother Dark. I see no other figure in the Malazan world as being as deliberately obtuse and evasive as Mother Dark. Mother Dark refuses to be defined and pinned down. The danger of being controlled and defined by your worshippers is expressed through the relationship of Mael and the infamous Jhistal. She remains a mystery and as such cannot be controlled or manipulated. She has turned away rejecting those that had faith in her. Mother Dark is a remote figure as are Tavore and many in many regards Lassen. These three figures have fundamentally different relationships to the would-be faithful, though all are obscure and remote figures. Laseen is mysterious and the faithful abandon her. Mother Dark is mysterious and turns away from her faithful. Tavore is mysterious and the faithful follow her to her ultimate goal. Three faces on the triangle of faith.

Brilliant analysis. JUST finished this chapter last night. And YES. What a f***ing masterpiece that was. The tension did not let up from the word go. I love this analysis of Laseen's position. It's complex as hell. But, being the simpleton I am sometimes (not all the time ;) ) I really was with Tavore on this. Erikson got me fully on board with Tavore with this scene. Her position is perhaps easier than Laseen's(although I wonder how her and the 14th will be able to manage without supply lines etc) , but her decision to not sell out Coltaine's memory, or the Wickans, or the 14th, and potentially (and very likely ) die for that decision elevated her for me. I am now officially Team Tavore ;) Now....over to the Erikson video about this chapter.

Great insight into Laseen's mind. While reading the chapter, I understood that her stand was purely motivated by economic and civil reasons so as to prevent a famine and an outright civil war breaking amidst the population, by presenting conflicting views about the Wickans, contrary to what has been spreading among the general populace. But this video really helped in hammering home Laseen's PoV in a logical manner starting from GoTM until now and justifying her decisions. Anyways great video as always Dr. AP. Cheers! 😀

I see some Three Parts Dead in the background there. Nice!

This was helpful as a quick refresher before Reaper’s Gale. Thanks!

For all the lasers and fireballs, some of the most profound scenes take place on such small scale. But she saw all questions as boolean much like an assassin - life or death. I think her arc in PtA was one of the more intriguing. She really could have learned a lot from Kellanved. Now I have to slip some NotME rereads in now....

i wanted to comment on the other chapt 23 vid but now i remembered that i forgot. out of all the "bad guys" in malazan, korbolo dom was the only one that seemed like the typical mustache twirling villain and i have to say that was so strange coming from Erikson

The culling of nobility has constant repercussions throughout the series. But I am wondering if it has any historical precedent? There is certainly no end to other horrible deeds throughout history. But between 2000 BC and AD, the closest I can come up with in terms of the culling of a nobility is maybe the French Revolution? Are there others?

Now I need to reread the Gardens dinner scene

This discussion clears some fog for me as far as Mallick Rel's future. Since I'm not averse to spoilers, I already know where he ends up. But having just finished Deadhouse Gates and seen his betrayal, I've been wondering how he gets there. At the moment, I'm thinking of him as a cross between Wernher von Braun and Lord Varys from GoT.

Much to think about, nothing much to add. Except maybe that I think Laseen realizes she has already lost at this point, and is in fact offering Tavore the empire..

What I find brilliant about this turn of events is that it justifies the whole book of Deadhouse Gates. I mean, sure, the Chain of Dogs and Coltaine's fate had an emotional impact because they were tragic in themselves, and tragic to witness as a reader. But in this chapter, the emotional baggage that we have been carrying with us about the outrage of what happened to Coltaine puts us squarely on the side of the Adjunct and Kalam. Of course it is not done to turn against the Wickans. We've seen what happened. So the chapter works backwards to give greater weight to Deadhouse Gates.

you said: the Claw, a league of clandestine assassins. maybe CLAW = Clandestine League of Assassin ..Warlocks?~

So did Laseen actually get offed, or did she just disappear into the background to let Rell be the face of the empire?

Is it a post bonehunters spoilers free video?

What is the army that Korbolo Dom has? I’m confused by that