Something to think about when you talk about police training the Infantry Sword Exercise, is that EVERYONE was training the sword exercise in the early/mid 19th C... it was considered to be primarily an exercise system, usually under the name of Military Drill or the Extension Motions, and seems to have been the equivalent of something like Yoga or Pilates in modern times. It was taught in small classes in hired rooms or privately in wealthy homes, and seemed to be mostly an occupation for retired Sergeants; Walker describes "young ladies" being taught by Sergeants in his 1836 "Exercises for Ladies...", and if you search the British Newspaper Archive you can find lots of ads for retired Sergeants selling their services as "Drill" instructors for civilians all the way up to the late 19th C, often in combination with dance instruction. If you accept the premise of Mark Singletons "Yoga Body", military drill was even potentially one of the precursors (along with traditional Indian wrestling exercises) of modern Yoga poses, which only start to appear in Yoga practise in the 19th C. Also, if you're interested in a connection between the Infantry Sword Exercise and the police cutlass, one of the people who helped develop the system itself, Maj. Edward Anthony Angelo (Henry Charles' little brother), was installed as the Chief Commissioner of Police for the borough of Bolton in 1839; there's a decent argument to be made that Edward Anthony is the one who really invented the Infantry Sword Exercise, or at least introduced the elements of Prussian Drill which made it compatible with the Army's existing drill system, since he was the only Angelo to ever serve in the military and was (according to Wellington's correspondence with Gen Torrens) actively teaching the Infantry Sword Exercise to troops in France when it was rolled out in 1817. He also had very poor judgement in romance, and was briefly exiled to the Newfoundland Fencibles after eloping with daughter of a Marquis, which might have led to his name being left off of the Infantry Sword Exercise when it was originally published...
What a gorgous cutlass/hanger! As a huge Briquet sabre fan this 1868 pattern police cutlass really attracts me! It just looks good and really functional. Great video!
In New Zealand, alongside the militia and the British Imperial forces were the Armed Constabulary. The Armed Constabulary was formed in 1846 with the passage of the Armed Constabulary Ordinance. I have an 1853 pattern cavalry sword by Mole of Birmingham, marked for New Zealand 'Armed Constabulary Force'. This is based on the 1853 pattern cavalry sword of the British Army but is deliberately made slightly lighter and with a 33-inch blade (instead of the normal 35 inches).
Ah nice, that is a nice little extra bit of info. I have a full length 1853 and there is more to be said about the police swords, perhaps I will put some more info together and make a part 2.
NSW Mounted Police is the oldest mounted police force in n the world and they carried the 1853 cavalry sword (many examples still around) and carbines and pistols.
My 3rd great-grandfather immigrated from Liverpool to the US in May of 1850 on a ship name the Grace McBae. Anyway, in his diary he stated that at one point some ruffians had broken into the food stores, and that the captain had to go down after them "sword drawn" to dissuade them. I wonder if it might've been a similar weapon as one of these!
Yeah....police forces here in the USA have tanks, armored troop carriers, grenades, shotguns, sniper & combat rifles etc. Even on the day 2 day they usually carry combat knives, a primary pistol, a back up pistol, a shotgun between the seat of the car, a rifle in the trunk, etc & i assure you that as much as the media would like folks to think its not that violent here. Lol
enjoyed this entertaining lecture, I've found R.I.C. police cutlasses turn up here in Ireland - one of my neighbours set up in antique dealing, she had a couple of the above which she held onto - just in case
The police cutlass is my favorite sword. It's the perfect sword sidearm for someone who has no idea what they're doing with it. Forgiving cutter, good enough at poking, not too long or unwieldy. Nothing fancy or elegant. Is there a maker's mark on yours? From the width and curvature it looks like a Mole, but the tip looks maybe a little more reinforced than the examples I've seen. The customs sword looks like a wicked slicer with that wedge section and hatchet tip. Is the point of balance further from the hand than with the former?
definitely right regards the miltarised police, most of the U.K. had a "civilian" police but Ireland despite being part of the U.K. had the R.I.C. who were armed paramilitary police - one serious mark on policing this had is this, here in Ireland older people didn't say Police Station instead they say "the Barracks" i.e. near military Definitely check out the 1913 Lockout where police assaulted members of the public - one British army officer was on leave in Dublin during this and he witnessed some Metro Police club a member of the public to death while stinking of fumes of drink One more reason that the Irish police are mostly unarmed, more jaw dropping is that the Irish police were founded as a not military a-political force in the middle of the chaos of the Irish Civil War as a civilian police force
I have a antique prison officers sword, which is essentially the same sword, with a working lock but missing the belt frog, and is completely blunt. It's just a shame i wasn't allowed to carry it while i was a prison officer.
I have read that on part of london member of the community petitioned the magistrates to have them routinely armed with swords. It came after 2 officers were badly beaten on their patrol. The magistrates granted this. But I can't find the article.
I've been looking for similar information on the riding officers (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_officer) but I think they weren't as well organised in the 18th century to have a standard issue sword or drill.
There was a massive lack of standardisation in the 18th century that didn't really change much until the end of the century, this goes for sword patterns, regulations, a lot of the uniform regulations, drill and all sorts. Even during the Napoleonic period the army did not have official standardised systems of sword practice, it being left to inidvidual units in most cases.
As far as I know we have no sources sadly. The closest thing would perhaps be Saint-Martin who was a Frenchman teaching in Austria. Otherwise you'd have to look to later 19thc sources and hope they haven't changed too much.
At first, during napoleonic age, no Germany existed! There existed about 35-40 remaining states. Up to 1813, all with exeption of Austria and Prussia had been in french dominated ,Rheinbund'/ Federation of the Rhine. According to Wikipedia , german swordsmanship switched arround 1600 from Meyer ( german longsword) to italian rapierstyle. In 1660s ( 1680s) the last german fencing treatise contained some ,german longsword moves'. Arround 1740 somewhere in Germany a man noted, he had seen an impressive fencing show with ,great old swords' ( no smallswords!). At pompeous court of Electorate Saxony up to 1709 ,Tournaments' existed, this had been stopped, because the weapons and fencing technics had no more similarities/ usefullness to actual (1700!) style of fencing. When you watch the famous arms collection in Zwinger Museum/ Dresden, you clearly see the ,fantasy look' of this ,Tournament' swords and shields. In early 1760s the 14years old Johann Wolfgang Goethe ( no nobleman at this days) got some fencing lessons payed by his father, a middle rank official of ,Imperial Town of Frankfurt am Main' . In later years the now famous poet wrote: There had been two fencing teachers in Frankfurt. An older german one and a young frenchman. The students of both teachers wanted to see a show match (?)/ bout (?) between the two teachers. The german one fought in a static way ( still practiced today in german academic fencing), the french one fought in mobile style. The german teacher ,got much sweat' as result of the ,for him, unusual mobile style of the french teacher, but the german teacher often disarmed the french teacher. So i think, in napoleonic age , german fencing was highly influenced by french fencing. Note : the cutbased ,german academic fencing' was introduced arround 1830, after a number of deadly accidents in former thrust based fencing of german students.
If you're interested in the historical treatises, wiktenauer.com/ and www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/. If you're interested in modern books about the interpretation of those treatises and general discussion, I can recommend Guy Windsor books (gumroad.com/guywindsor), and the material freely available on this channel's associated website (swordfight.uk/resources/). There's a lot more around of course but I think this would be a good starting point.
Because there is a big difference between mounted police and mounted soldiers. The horse is valuable to the police for mobility and intimidation of crowds, whereas a mounted soldier is a blunt instrument of war.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing : Some years ago, in a german arms magazine, i am german, there was an article about the mounted Regiment of french ,Garde Republicaine' which belongs to Gendarmerie, not army. They still train with saber and cavallry saber charge, but do not only ceremonial service. As being Gendarmes they still have to patrol a forrest ( Bois de Boulogne?) and still have a saber on saddle. Perhaps now , twenty years later, things have changed.
You think that would quiet protests about police violence? Are you hard of thinking? The protestors would bet armed. Not with swords. Wtf is wrong with people. In a hole, stop digging or go to civil war 2
As a cutlass it makes a nice looking hanger! on another note I can't see the cops in my town being safe with even nerf swords lol. That said, as an American I have always been impressed by the British police typically not having guns, I imagine their training must be a lot harder and they must be pretty good at hand to hand as well as de-escalating conflict.
theres really two sides to to british policing. on the one hand they can do some impressive stuff with deescalation and crowd control, on the other hand they very much have their own agenda, and if you follow anyone who makes a business of prosecuting police officers here you can see theres a hell of a lot wrong with british policing. the british police are not exactly shy about attempting to intimidate the wider british public if they believe they have a moral cause, or if they simply feel entitled to do so.
@@animeboitiddies6146 I have actually heard of such concerns, even some alarming examples, but didn't mention them as not having ever been to England it would seem inappropriate to criticize what I have no experience with, as well as off topic; my "being "impressed" was speaking purely re: their ability to do their jobs without firearms. I don't doubt they have their problems as well. I didn't want to speak through my hat on that not being even from England, you guys know more about it than me.
@@thelonerider9693 if you fancy some of the worst examples of british policing, take a peek at a dude on here called crimebodge, he seemingly does about as good a job of taking them to task as can be done given our police disciplinary system is basically hell bent on getting officers let off on even the most serious of charges if they can get away with it.
