The Bronze Age Collapse - Systems Collapse - Extra History - Part 4 

It started with famine... and ended with four great civilizations' utter destruction. What can we learn from the Bronze Age Collapse? Support us on Patreon for early access, topic suggestions, and more! www.patreon.com/ExtraCredits

“Weapons are buried. Plans are made to collect these weapon caches, but no one will ever return.” This was truly a chilling phrase.

"For over a thousand years the chariots were the backbone of peace and order in the kingdom. Before the dark times. Before the sea people"

"For today, in this modern era, where we can probably weather most any crisis, if we fool ourselves into believing that we're immune, we may go on to create so many crises of our own that we may bring about the collapse of our own systems." it's been a month and four days since the capitol riot in america and more than a year after the coronavirus was first discovered as of writing. this quote aged EXCEEDINGLY well.

Who's watching this during Corona pandemic

BTW - Why did the Egyptian Empire end???? ANS: All pyramid schemes end badly.

This is the perfect background story for a post-apocalypse adventure set in the bronze age!

Am I alone in saying that this series gave me a new fear in life? The fact that these thriving societies collapsed in the space of just 40-50 years is horrifying and gives me anxiety.

Ooooh...the end message of this series aged like the finest of wines.

I'm a "Systems and Complexity Associate" (yes, this is a real job title) for a large non-profit organization. My background is in Systems Thinking and Practices. Specifically, I create systems maps for the purposes of informing social-change strategies. You have no idea how excited I am to stumble across a video talking about systems thinking and theory naturally (usually you'd have to go out of your way to search for and find one). Systems thinking is so important and relevant, yet it's still mostly unknown. So thank you for showing interest in the topic and highlighting it in your video! :)

And so the kingdom of Gondor sank into ruin. The line of kings failed. The white tree withered. The rule of Gondor was given over to lesser men.

"The appearance of a new disease, no problem, we can handle that." So much for that one.

"We have to handle these incredible cultures that we've built thoughtfully, and respect" Well said.

In the nineties, when I was a kid, I noticed a lot of the sci-fi shows that I enjoyed had minor storylines or single episodes devoted to warning us about complex societies. Usually they took it from the angle of losing the "self", like being part of a complex society requires the sacrifice of one's personal identity or freedoms. And to some degree they're right, you do give up some freedoms to be part of a system. But the people who had these ideas in these shows almost always took the extreme route of going completely in the opposite direction, becoming amish-like refugees from the space-faring or interdimensional-exploring civilisations they hailed from, citing that such advancement invited its own end, and that simplicity was the way by which one avoided whole-sale collapses. With no system, no collapse. But even as a child, I remember thinking "Yeah, but then you have no police or an army to defend your way of life. You have no hospitals with advanced medical care to treat simple diseases or injuries. You don't have robust farming techniques that almost guarantee plentiful food." Of course, I didn't put it quite like that when I was 7, but it was the same idea in principle. All these "going back to a simpler time" episodes almost never showed these people being overrun by opposing armies, or hit by devastating curable diseases, or starving when their finite crop system bugged out for a week. They always just showed the philosophical inadequacies, or more often put them in an agreeable light, as though becoming agrarian hermit societies was actually the right way to go.

Quote from "Red Dwarf": ""They say that every society is only three meals away from revolution. Deprive a culture of food for three meals, and you'll have an anarchy. And it's true, isn't it? You haven't eaten for a couple of days, and you've turned into a barbarian." Kind of sums it up.

1:13 So you ask Anubis for a harvest and you expect it to be great?

Some dude a few years back: "new deseases? No problem" Corona: allow me to introduce myself

As a software engineer, I have to wonder if there are ways to build more robustness into our societies. After Hurricane Katrina, lots of folks became interested in disaster preparedness. But they were focused on an individual or family level. What if we could build disaster preparedness on an urban block level, where a street of 40-80 people have a plan to withstand some major shock.

It was Walpole. He invested in a time machine and tried to run his scheme with the Pharaohs and whatnot back then.

That final statement was beautifully spoken. We are not gods, we are frail humans.

“And once you can’t support that population, there’s no nice way to bring that number down”. History doesn’t repeat, but history rhymes

Your conclusion reminds me a lot of thoughts I had when reading up on the Library of Alexandria. While the decay of that institution was gradual and not nearly as dramatic as often thought, it still represents to me the idea that 'progress' may not be as inevitable as we believe. Knowledge that was gained can be lost, and Civilisation's march forward is not a permanent given. Mostly unthinkable in today's society, it made me consider that 'progress' can be reversed.

To sum up the final point in a slightly simpler way: Titanic sank. Nothing to our knowledge has proven to be unsinkable, and the assumption that something is usually leads to catastrophe. That is probably why Titanic proved so traumatic we still remember the jist of the story today. The assumption of infallibility is bound to self-destruct. There's probably something to the concepts presented in the theory of systems collapse.

The conclusion makes me realize that our modern societies globally will collapse not in the way of the romans, but in the way of the Bronze Age collapse - and catastrophic climate change might be the biggest culprit

"the appearance of some new disease" Yeah, about that...

Notice! This episode concludes the Bronze Age Collapse series, and after this Extra History will be taking a one week break. We'll be back with a few one-off episodes starting on July 29!

I feel that this is the backstory for every game of civ

World in 2020: *sweats in coronavirus crisis

Systems collapse is like having someone get a hold of your leg in a fight. You can't reach the person holding it to try to make him let go, and the leg can't get free on its own. You can't just cut off your leg, either; that would put you at an even worse disadvantage. All you can do is hope the other guy has mercy-but usually they don't.

Now the Phoenicians can get down to business!

That's something I used to think when I was at high school - that with how complex and interwoven our society is, it felt so unreal that it functions and at a maddening pace nonetheless. It felt to me that such a delicate system cannot be maintained for long, especially since _every_ society before that collapsed (true, some collapsed because of our advanced society, but still). It was only after I delved more into technology that I saw how this can work - how technology supports us and holds our society together. It's sad that most people don't understand technology even on a basic level because it invites a risk of misinterpreting its abilities and, as you said in the video, grants an illusion of immunity. Nowadays, it's most palpable in coding - it's absolutely everywhere and yet people have no clue what it takes to make a simple script, let alone a functioning app. Like Carl Sagan said, "We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology."

Literally what happens in age of empires when you don't scout your enemy

“A new disease? We can handle it.”

Thus the Assyrians rise to power and reach their peak, one man's Dark age is another ones Golden age. With that out of the way, we can focus on something else: Cyrus II the great and his rise of power of becoming the Justinian of Alexander

Do you think that Plato's tale of Atlantis might have been an allegory of the Bronze Age collapse? Also, it seems that the eruption of Thera and the tale of Joseph might have coincided with the BAC.

The systemic collapse theory was developed by *Joseph Tainter,* you can find out more about his argument in his book *The Collapse of Complex Societies (1988)*

Rewatching the original societal collapse before the remake drops.

I like that a good strategy game can have the same thing happen. I have had this happen in games like Civ4, both my empire, and several others just collapse in a matter of turns, restless population, no production, fortunes disappearing, once powerful armies weakened, barely strong enough to hold their ground. You usually have all the information to find the root problem, but by the time you do, the situation has already spiraled out of control, and the solution to the cause can no longer be executed as everything is crumbling around you.

They also said that the banks are "too big to collapse" Then, 2008 happens

"The appearance of some new disease".......Well, that happened now...

"Hey you know those rich people across the sea have food AND treasure, wanna raid them?" "Bet. They didn't pay my friends this year either might as well get revenge." "Yea, famine hitting hard might as well stock up lets go!" ~ Walpole and the South Sea People.

There should be a bronze age collapse total war game

This was a good series.

9:38 New Diesease "We survived but barely"

On a civilizational scale, we weathered even the COVID crisis and a few other major health crises. It looks rough when you zoom in, but as a civilization we did better than most other times in history.

LeBron's age comes to an end. No longer could the people look to the Cavaliers to defend what was once theirs. Warriors had invaded from west, and had left Cleveland ravaged and broken.

"We can weather some new disease" oh boy that prediction was too accurate

“Droughts, the appearance of some new disease? No, problem” We have to see how this ends first.

if ya can't beat em, join em. I'm a sea person now

Any chance you guys will do a series on the Indus Valley Civilization or of other points in Ancient India in the future?

“The appearance of some new disease: no problem, we can handle it.” This hits different after COVID

‘The appearance of a new disease? No problem, we can handle it’ aged very well

I wonder how the bronze age collapse effected the Indus valley and the Shang dynasty

This was the most entertaining yet highly educational and eye-opener video that I've seen in months! I just want to say Thank you!

The scary thing is, I kind of see this sort of systems failure beginning to occur in our modern day society. I just hope the cat videos survive.

The whole Bronze Age Collapse really reads like a story of the end of the world straight out of a movie of today. Disasters followed by strange invaders, and urban centers abandoned to ruin as the survivors hide in small settlements in the mountains. Rename the Sea People as 'zombies' and its literally a fictional story of today. It must have truly seem like the world was coming to an end as a whole.

systems collapse is something I already knew about - Thank you grand strategy/citybuilders/empire management games.

"The appearance of a new disease? No problem. We can handle it." YOU'D THINK SO, WOULDN'T YOU?

coming back to this after the world's situation brought by the pandemic. "even today, we are not invulnerable" is a statement that resonates in almost terrifying manner in today's context. we thought that we could handle another outbreak, another - chaos as something we could control. the common sense expected from people to follow EACH and every one of our safety protocols was overestimated. due to one major crisis, the world's tradjectory had been changed, causing a domino effect that exposes how our systems are infallible. i'm partly grateful that due to this plague, we weren't wiped off the earth, or forced into a dark age similarly to the civilizations of the bronze age. it gives me hope, that despite our lack of preparation, we can survive this. we can keep leaving our marks for many more decades to come.

Oh my god... The Joker was involved in this too! 4:14

A wonderfully put and concise cautionary tale. I wish I found these earlier, but that just means I have a bunch to binge on now.

Ancient history is always so interesting, remarkable that there are still so many things we can learn from them in building our societies now to be better and stronger.

9:32 Not sure about that one😂

The bronze age and its collapse is probably my most favourite history topic. Thanks for this amazing series.

Very Interesting. How about Extra History on the Dark Ages and the lead up to the High Middle Ages?

For everyone talking about covid-19 in this video: Yes, covid-19 is a naughty boy, but it's like a bad harvest for our society. Covid-19 is something that will make 2020 and 2021 very bad years; but our real sea people and collapse is climate change. That is the real threat that can combine all the elements the series has explained about the bronze age collapse

6:36-9:56 Best "Moral of the story" lesson quote from History Video I've seen in years

Should I evolve my Walpole?

Why do I feel like the Sea Peoples are the Reapers of the Bronze Age era, wiping out civilization at the end of their cycles in order for civilization to survive and evolve

Ironically watching this during the Corona virus quarantine.

I now want a fantasy series where the collapse was caused by a sorcerer/magical being and in the modern day they awake.

Somehow, Walpole finds a way to get into a video series about events that happened centuries before his great-great-great grandparents did the horizontal hula. *clap clap clap* Well played.

one thing i find scary, if modern society suffers a great collapse to the scale of the Bronze age collapse, we will NEVER be able to recover from it. modern technology requires an enoumious amount of resources to design, build, and operate, and since the industrial revolution, we have used up all of the easily accessible resources. nowadays to get oil we have to drill at the bottom of the ocean, or in the farthest corners of the earth, if we ever lose the ability to do this, there is simply not enough readily accessible to jump start a second industrial revolution

This genuinely feels like an apocalypse and the grand kind. When we think of an apocalypse, it's of modern-day ruins, but an apocalypse can happen any time, just not as grand looking.

This was by far one of my favorite videos of yours! Thank all of you that worked so hard to make it!

2:26 So in the end what caused the Bronze Age collapse? We may never kn- Walpole. It was Walpole.

I knew it! Walpole is behind everything!!!

This series was very thought provoking and informative. It made me think about the structure of society in a new way. Thank you

As society progresses, the costs go up. This is a phenomenon every 4X strategy game player knows all too well.

This was a lovely series into a largely unexplored time of history. Thanks very much Extra Credits!

9:32 *Coronavirus: Am i a joke to you?*

9:35 : Message from the future: The appearance of a new disease can still be a problem.

Refreshing to hear you actually state that you were about to speculate. I'm loving these videos!

Damn it we need Pokémon Rusty to capture Wild Walpole.

One of my favorite series of yours, both because of its particular relevance to today and because I just like listening to historical speculation.

This series of videos remember me of the concepts of a praxeology production system.

I know this series is one of the older ones, but I always like sticking around to the very end of these videos like these because of how much I love the music for the outros. This one's no exception!

Ho, man. I joined the Early access club a while back, but FINALLY I caught it before the public release! HA!

Wow, just wow. This was really eye-opening.

Thank you for the great lessons to learn. You guys are such great mind, you can see the big picture so well and explain it in such simple presentation

Amazing video!I find these historical stories so interesting, as they can teach us a lot about today. The Bronze Age collapse tells us to stick together, and to try our best to stand strong

Brilliant series. Thank you for doing this. The theory of systems collapse reminds me so much of the universal law of entropy. The universe tends towards disorder, it requires increasing energy to maintain increasingly complex systems. It is the same in the human body: why an inability to produce insulin in the pancreas can lead to a life altering disease, why a single genetic mutation can cause deadly cancer, and why a blockage in a vessel can kill a person. It is why your room gets messier, not dirtier. It is why we need trash removal, why we shovel snow, i could go on. As a globalized society, we are in a constant battle against entropy, disorder. We have to remain responsible, diligent, and vigilant. If we alter our environment to the point that we cannot produce enough food to feed the absolutely astronomical and still skyrocketing global population, I can only imagine what a bronze age type collapse would look like in the modern day.

We may be entering the "Oil Age Collapse" (Personally I like the ring of "Silicon Age" but Earth is mostly Silicon). It gets harder and harder to find new rare oil sources and can't be replenished fast enough. It's starting to slow as evidenced in some oil based countries, take away the oil and society crumbles. Some countries can hold out, but most countries need trade to stay afloat. Even robust economies are starting to slow.

Crazy how well you conclusion lines up with today

Nice lesson. An eye opener to understand some current conflicts going on in collapsing societies around the world. Worth to keep in mind.

We're watching system collapse in real time these days. This series just get a lot more relevant.

"...the appearance of some new disease? No, problem” *laughs nervously in 2020*

The reasoning about this case is so "MAYBE" on point! That I dont have to speculate anymore. Thanks EC-Dudes! Awesome channel.. Big ups!

I have enjoyed this series about a fascinating and little discussed period in our history, thank you.

"The appearance of some new disease? No problem" I mean we will completely botch the landing, but we will get through it.