I joined a TLM parish 50 miles away and it has been more of a community than my local NO ever was. But my spiritual survival was at stake just as my ancestors emigrated from Europe to survive material poverty. Sometimes you have no choice, survival may force it.
That is the saddest thing I’ve heard for some time. If your seeking community rather than Christ, should it matter? If you’re beliefs don’t align then you got a bigger problem, or maybe the Church you belong to has a bigger problem, if it can be mitigated by a 50 mile commute. I can’t answer any of that it just scares me. May you and your Church find peace.
@@SaltShack Bad Company corrupts good character. I think, its more of how they were more united in the faith of Christ and as a community of believers is what is meant by the Original Comment.
@@whitevortex8323 I do understand that, but welcome to the world that is so disjointed and seemingly only united in the paradoxical and ultimately destructive pursue of diversity rather than ultimate truths like Liberty and Faith in the mysteries of Christ. We don’t need to march thru life like robots but discarding fundamental Truth for convenience or feeling or the rationalizations let alone revelations of our own or any Johnny come lately Faith leader is detrimental, exactly, to the sense of “community” addressed in the video and the comments. Unfortunately the Roman Catholic Church started down this road a long time ago when it abandoned the singular organizational principle established by the Apostles in first century Jerusalem, Enduring Consensus. It paved the way for the reformation and worse Evangelism that arose out of the “great awakening” and now is succumbing to it themselves. We use to be divided by geography language and culture organically. Now we artificially create division to satisfy our own narcissism.
Being in a liberal diocese we have to church shop. We can go 6 blocks away, super convenient, but religious education stops at 4th grade, so I homeschool. Reconciliation (a Sacrament) is only available by email appointment. So we went 6 miles away. Homily consisted of about of personal childhood stories and then touches on the readings in the last few minutes. At this point i purchased Sunday Missals for all 3 cycles. It had a small explanation for all of the readings. I'm a single father to a young man and I really want him to understand why the firs two readings tie in to the gospel vs long stories about tomato fights as a kid. Reconciliation is 30 mins before mass. Hardly anyone goes and the priest spends most of that time playing the piano as the church fills. Arriving 20 minutes before mass we intended to go to reconciliation but as we got there the priest left the confessional and when asked about hearing confession he looked at his non existent watch and from his reactions we really felt like we were being a bother. So we decided to go 8 miles away so our wanting to receive a sacrament did not to cut into fathers pre-mass piano time. We went 8 miles, than 12 miles, 20 miles and then finally found a parish that offered confession like clock work. Ya the lines were long but i knew i could always go and not be a burden. Plus the guidance i receive after confessing my sins is always gold. I look forward to going. The previous churches offered little to no guidance at all. The homily is always presented with passion and truth. A priest and a deacon celebrate the mass and distribute communion without a dozen helpers disinfecting their hands behind the altar. Discovered another parish, same pros, a little closer to home. But it costs $25.00 for my kid to be confirmed. Really considering selling the house and making the move to the parish 40 miles away.
During Covid, my parish church shut down completely from Ash Wednesday through Assumption. Thereafter, it allowed parishioners to attend Mass once a month according to their geographic location. As this sometimes meant missing out on important feast days, my wife and I found another church that had remained open to everyone even throughout most of the direst period of lockdowns. We ended up transferring our membership there even thought it’s 100km away. Our local church has since re-opened, but it’s also suddenly closed its doors without notice now and again because of new waves of infection. It’s also now locked all day on Saturdays, thus precluding 1st Saturdays devotion. In short, my heart goes out to you, my brother. As they say on the airplanes before takeoff, we need to put on our own oxygen mask before attempting to help others. I will pray for you and your son that you get the oxygen you need. God bless.
Believe it or not, this line of thinking can be used with discussing monastic life! The whole point is to allow the community to shape those rough edges you would otherwise not do yourself. No moving towns, no forming cliques, no picking liturgy - you vow stability to one place, with one monastic family, and obedience to your superior. It’s incredibly humbling - which is exactly the point, as is the point you’re making. Great stuff
When I first started believing in God I was apprehensive about denominations and theologies. I was raised methodist and had so many questions without answers that I lost my faith. When I turned 30 I had bit of a dilemma, I was convinced that God was real and it was the christian God. I just didn't know any of the details.... all I knew was human beings couldn't be trusted but the Bible could be. I read it relentlessly and came up with all of my own conclusions... I thought it would be best to let the holy spirit be a sort of guide for me as I wonder through the maze of theology and interpretations. I said I'll stick with a denomination until it gives me reason to leave, I'll learn and adjust with every church. No lie the first "christian" I run into was a jehovahs witness. Ended up studying with them for 9 months before I realized how they warp scripture and make up history to keep their adherents from learning external information. 1st strike... then I figured I'd go normal. I went to a few Baptist churches but they were all like christian shopping malls/rock concerts. I went to a decent non denominational church but realized quickly that they wouldn't be getting deep with any theology at all. Didn't take hard stances and focused a lot on making everything look and sound slick and modern. They had just as much available to buybas the baptists but hid it better. I was getting frustrated heading into my third year of this adventure and decided I'd look for credentials... a pentacostal church right around thencorner from my house had like 100 trophies for Bible memorization. But they were all wild and obviously faking the tongues. Like a divine language is going to sound like "hummina hummina shabaladda doo " over and over again. Still I pushed through even if the spirit was all but dragging me out of there. Last straw was the preacher saying "you wanna be used for god?! Open your hearts, open your homes, and for God's sake open your wallets!!!! I didn't walk out but that was for respect of the guy that I was studying with. I was disgusted by this point and decided just to find the right theology online before going to any church. It took me another year but i settled on calvinism. Unfortunately there wasn't any calvinists besides a few odd ball presbys in my area so I went back to the church I was baptized in but didn't believe any of their theology. Just figured God would forgive them.... then they went LGBT and the church closed for good. Again I was without a church, my life was becoming full of sin, I almost divorced my wife over it, and in desperation I prayed to God to help show me what church to go to for guidance. That night I drempt of a priest and the catholic church. I thought I must've seen too many exorcist movies. I was pretty anti catholic and very pro reformation. I thought it meant nothing but it was like an itch I had to scratch. I figured the easiest way to dispell this notion would be to go look at martin Luther's 95 thesis and compare it to what catholics say now as opposed to what they said back then. One by one everything I thought about the Catholic Church got reversed. I was confirmed this easter....praise god. I haven't spent this much time at a church since I was 18, I love never been so confident in what I believe and know about the faith, I'm constantly getting my mind blown by learning about miracles. I can thank nobody but the lord who answered my prayer.... my wife and I have never been happier, the sins are all but gone from our lives, I go to mass every week like my life depends on it, I've been inspired like never before. I used to think my church shopping days were all just a waste of time but now I see the fruits of my labors and the blessings that God gave me through those trials.
Agreed. Confirmation bias is something I learned about a long time ago. Too many choices leads to it so diversity in of itself is not always our strength as these elites choose to say
Here in latin america, nowadays, we have Novus Ordus, Charismatic Renovatian, Celebrations without priest... also strange ecumenical masses done by Theology of libertation. I regret to think about TLM as "boring and lasting so long" when i was younger. Now with so many options, i feel i cannot even choose, as my whole state (Acre- Brazil) in which i live doesnt have priests fluent in latin. :( I know that wasnt the point of the video, but made me reflect this way.
I can see where it could lead that way. One thing that has helped me is discovering the history of the Church and all the conflicts there have been throughout the centuries. I read Triumph, The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church by Harry Crocker which goes through every pope from Peter through Pope John Paul II and when I finished it really did hit me that if the church has really survived all that over 2000 years then it really must be the True Church.
Sorry, dear brother, but it seems to be you consider Novus Ordo a bad thing or something, when we should rejoice we have it. Granted, TLM may be beautiful aesthetically, but the Church is asking us to embrace Novus Ordo, denying it or speaking-ill of it is going against the magisterium. Please, be very careful there. In the end, the major difference between Novus Ordo and TLM is that in the Novus Ordo, the laity becomes a living participant of the celebration, while in the TLM we were simply an outsider spectator. In the Novus Ordo, you can participate to embellish the celebration with your own actions, and you can even ask to be part of the chorus or something, so you can set example of solemnity and proper worship, and make it as beautiful [if not even more] than any TLM. That's the Novus Ordo's beauty and potential, but also requieres a true, major compromise on our part as laity with it and our faith. Also you seem to imply there are masses without priests, but that is simply erroneous, there is not a single mass that can be performed without a priest. Perhaps you are confusing such celebrations with liturgy of the hours or something like that. Those can be performed without a priest because, precisely, they are not a full mass. However they can be performed by a Minister or Deacon no problem. In the end, we must understand what's the point of attending them, not wondering why is not like other celebrations. God bless. ------ Brasil, pentacampeão 😁
Oh, no! The TLM Mass that you experienced is no where near like mine. We are definitely NOT outsider spectators! We participate fully in praying out loud, with the priest, such parts of the Mass as the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar responses, on over to the Confiteor (in Latin, of course), to the Kyrie Eleison, sung three times, the Gloria, sung, (all these in Latin), we sing the Creed, of course the Sanctus we sing, Agnus Dei, and the Pater Noster. Our “chorus” as you call it, is a choir, called a scola (sp), and our “altar servers” are called Accolytes, who are ONLY male, of which every Mass we have up to 18, ranging from ages 8 to 75! Women wear veils, dresses/skirts; men are either in suit coats or nicely dressed shirts and dress slacks. We receive Communion ONLY on the tongue, kneeling at the Communion rail. Other ways we are different is the Liturgy of the Hours are PRAYERS prayed six times a day by priests and Second and Third Orders-of which I am a Third Order (Secular) Carmelite. There’s no celebration of any masses in the Liturgy of the Hours; they are private and personal prayers that are all the same prayers set out to be prayed 24 hours a day, from one continent to another. As an example, if I’m praying my 6:00 am prayers, every one in the different time zones is praying the same prayers I am, but in the 6:00 o’clock hour where they are. So they are not being “performed “ as you said, by deacons or priests, as in a gathering. It’s amazing, to me, how different Brazil is to us, in the TLM. GOD bless you, brother, for one day we will meet face to face, in this life or the next. +JMJ+
I completely agree with your take on globalization. After graduating from university I moved into a larger city than I’ve ever been in and surrounded by more new people than ever before. But because there are always different people and I rarely see anyone more than once it’s incredibly isolating in a way that I never felt in the small town I grew up in. Ostensibly there are more people, but too many to truly know or have relationships with
The Catholic Church is global by nature. That might have contributed to the recent globalism. I would avoid being too Catholic. It's not officially what the Church teaches, but you should do it or it's a sin because I said so and I also heard another person say so once.
The mormons have literally no choice, a computer assigns them to a ward based on address. I saw it in a documentary--they said you dont get to pick your family either.
Former Mormon. Not sure what you mean by "don't get to pick your family," but you're correct that they do not get to choose where they attend Sunday services and which congregation they are a part of. At the lowest levels you have stakes and wards. Stakes are larger general geographic areas which may contain multiple wards within that area. You are assigned a ward (parish/congregation) with a specific time you are expected to attend. Your church records and membership details are held there as well. If you say, want to attend another ward because you have family in that ward, it has to go to the "Stake President" for approval. Not sure how often these are approved, I'm sure it depends on the circumstances, but you can't just go wherever you want willy-nilly.
It was just a comparison--complaints about not being able to pick your worship community, they were told "well, it's like your family--you can't pick your family either!" You gotta play the hand your dealt.
I may be wrong, but I believe E. Michael Jones (a truly devout Catholic intellectual) goes to N.O. He has specifically told people not to go into schism over the TLM. I believe he goes to N.O. because it's the closest one to him and he finds it easier to build a community with fellow parishioners who are in local proximity as opposed to traveling farther away.
When we're in communion with Holy Mother Church, we're in a greater community. But I think i know what you mean. We need our friends here in The Church Militant as well.
funny thing -none of my neighbors go to church, and the people at the church I attend are becoming more closely knit in the consciousness that fewer neighbors go to any church
We can love our neighbor and the people next to us when we have a solid understanding of the Lord's will. So we shop... for orthodoxy and consistency. Then we can relate to each other with a world view rooted in faith.
Spot on. Although a sore point for Trads and Progs alike , attending/adopting our (local) parish will make our liturgy more reverent and our communities more kind; start with living in our local parish and helping eachother grow and prosper in Christ. This move above all others fullfills our Lord’s instruction to love our neighbor and in the end gathers His flock.
I understand what you are saying, but certain times we do have to shop… This is coming from someone who just like you opted to attend an FSSP chapel instead of attending the local Catholic Church. While yes I understand that it is not ideal, but consider that in the city I am in one Church was using invalid wine for the mass for years and no one knew about it until recently. Tragically those parishioners did not receive the Eucharist for years. So no I can not risk just attending the local parish and having something like that happen I have to go somewhere with a worthy liturgy and Orthodox priests.
I agree and yet disagree with not church shopping. We should seek out a parish that helps spiritually feed us. Yet no parish is perfect and there is so much growth that can be had working/worshipping with others that share a different perspective on the faith. I'm at a point where it's unclear to me which parish to attend 90+% of Sundays. But I do desire a stable parish, factors such as parish culture, the priest's personality, beauty of the church building itself all factor in as to why it can be challenging at the local level to commit to always attending one parish.
Love thy neighbor means exactly that. We must love our neighbors even if our neighborhood churches don't live up to our mental projection of an ideal church. The nearer people are, the easier we see their imperfections.
I used to be against Church shopping. But having kids changed a lot. It seems that traditionally, church shopping was discouraged. So families stuck it out. Looking backwards, I don't see the fruit from sticking it out. IMO, it can lead to a stagnant faith for the family and especially for the kids. I think it is why so many kids fall away. I could be completely wrong...but I've seen what hte status quo has brought to America and I don't want my children to be one of those statistics...
Yup, you said it. I always said that it was one thing for me to "tough it out", but when it came to my kids, I suddenly found that I didn't choose to have them "tough it out", too. Because they can't. The best analogy I heard lately is that "The flimsy religion offered at a typical modernist parish effectively inoculates children against attaining full-bodied Catholicism in their adulthood."
If they're all teaching the same thing, what's the difference? How are people supposed to meet other single people? It's not like it's the streets of Italy and everyone's Catholic. Criticizing "church shopping," whatever that is, is just so boomer. People need to get back to the tradition of using common sense and doing what you need to do.
I go to a Latin Mass Catholic church. My Priest is very holy he is not afraid to teach the faith boldly and lovingly. We have a lot of opportunity to go confession to confession. We also have benediction often. We have many wonderful altar servers all male. We are really blessed.
Leaving my neighborhood church was the best decision I made. I belong to a TLM that's in the middle of Sodom and Gamora ( Manhattan,NYC) and I couldn't be happier.This last May was our 4th yr attending TLM.
I recently attended a weekday NO Mass in the theater district (St Malachi?) and it was amazing! I was so impressed with the 8am attendance on a Wednesday--however I couldn't help but notice my son and I were the only ones there who weren't singular/lone/by themselves attendees. I live in a heavily secular state so I was so pleased to be among so many faithful in such a massive city. 🙏
I can't go to my local parishes because the priests are liberal and promote horrible sinful ways. There is hardly anyone going to confession and they do really weird and bad things in the church. We drive an hour away for the Latin mass where at least I feel comfortable telling my children to pay attention at mass.
I sense a heavy Chesterton influence here. Good, lol. This is true. I'm a recent convert and simply go to the parrish nearest to where I live. Is Novus Ordo, I'm able to go to late afternoon mass daily. Oh boy, are there issues with sane doctrine, with the liturgy group, etc. And there's this weird guilt that has flooded Church where people in Parrish groups, whenever they speak have the habit of apologizing for saying a bit of the Truth or "for being too harsh", "too judgemental", they have all that, and I'm annoyed by not finding the fire of faith I fell in love with in my first conversion, where I truly found The Lion of Judah, who didn't gave me the "vanilla Christian love" but who embraced me in an absolutely painful purifying fire, and thus taught me what actual love is. Many Catholics, do not inhabit that same reality, but instead seems to me are living with fear of the world and shame of the full picture of The Gospel. Therefore the temptation kicked in. Thank God I had already listened to some of Jonathan Pageau's thoughts on the importance of actually physically going to Church, but also, providentially, around the time temptation got worse I got a video by Dr. Jordan Peterson in my feed which had this exact dialogue in it, regarding people that won't go to Church cause you can find Christians doing ugly things, he said: "if you're so wonderful go help them". Then it hit me that as long as I'm in an actually diverse place I'm going to be as annoying, at least to one person, as others in there are to me. And to be honest I think I've been put in there to be like "the fool" who makes the uncomfortable questions and remarks nobody is, which means I surely will be annoying. So, the parrish nearest to me will continue to be my parrish as long as I keep my current address, if God wills it, BUT I have to say only endurance in there has recently given me a sense of belonging and community and I have come to love people I would've had contempt for not long ago. In Christ I truly love them now. God making me stay there has forced me to tear down walls and confronted me and corrected bad habits I didn't know I had, just by staying. Again, God, who is love, is a purifying fire.
Being holier than thou to your entire congregation is 100% a very cliche convert thing to do. It's not your specific gift or heroic vision quest. Every convert does this. Just do the opposite of whatever you think is a good idea.
@@Poodle_GunI think we used to call that 'zeal' . Mediocrity always seeks to pull down the Superior to its own level. Pretty much what Fulton Sheen thought at least.
I went to a church once in MO, and i had a horrible feeling that the priest just didnt care. Especially during the Consecration. At my last parish in the US it was nice, but there was no community, or if i go to a parish that the priest is teaching boarderline antithetical teachings. I cant in good conscience go there
In my case sometimes it is easy to confuse Church shopping and fidelity to the Catholic doctrine. Although sometimes I fall into my biases and other times into place human opinions before God's will, one thing that helps me discern is to remember that my primary purpose is the salvation of my soul, which of course is by loving and obeying Him and loving the people around me because of him (Per Ipsum, et cum Ipso, et in Ipso). This means that if I go to LTM I have to question myself: I am doing it because I feel more COMFORTABLE with the people around me? or because I want to adore him in the most perfect way. Adding to that when it comes to talking with Catholics that attend Novus Ordo that dislikes LTM I also ask myself: are they doing it because of bad will or am I being judgmental? am I biased or feel superior by attending LTM?... and of course, the answer must be NO I am just another sinner with flaws. The second and most important thing that helps me the most with this issue is thinking about Jesus and that he also is not just my neighbor but my all: what does he want?... and .. well I keep on trying to do my best, leaving everything in his hands.
TLM is the church I moved to when my ex-pastor would literally drop the Host into our hands, instead of gently placing. My insides burned with rage-this is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of MY Lord and Savior, and He’s not a hot potato, too hot to hold with respect! At my TLM we have all the bells and smells, wear veils and skirts (or dresses). Communion is received ONLY on the tongue, and kneeling at the Altar rail. Even though we are a vacationers spot off the coast of Florida, visitors are reminded we have a dress code, that is not shorts and flip flops! Old church, 12 minutes away. New one, TLM, 30 minute drive. And others that drive 45 minutes, up to an hour, one way. After TLM Mass you KNOW you’ve been to Mass! And I do adore GOD Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost in this, the most perfect way. +JMJ+
Just stop it. Stop feeling guilty for doing what you know is right. By *design* the Novus Order requires the priest to make liturgical choices. Are his choices sacrosanct but your family's arbitrary and whimsical? How about this: I agree to take my family to only the parish church where this year's line on the map places us (after parish closures) if the Bishop guarantees the liturgy at every church will be reverent, orthodox, holy and traditional. So, follow the rules? Sure, them first. Until then you drive as far as necessary to bring your family the words of eternal life. Because heaven is real, and as I want to spend eternity with my family I won't be taking any chances just for the sake of some model geographical theory of parishional diocesan church governance. And neither should you, and neither should you feel guilty about it, and neither does God want you to. And trust me, you'll find plenty of fellow parishioners to love and care for at the traditional parish, too. And if it feels like those communities are just a wee bit too transient, too unstable, well, ask yourself why. Does constant harassment, priest rotation, banishment to school gymnasiums, impossible mass times, and the rest make stability more than a little challenging? I try to be charitable.
A great video and very needed. I’ve been tempted to just leave myself, but as Peter said there’s nowhere else to go. As you point out we’re a family and I can imagine our Heavenly Father sitting us down and making us work things out together. I love that family analogy. Thank you for that image.
Not a Catholic Bryan but I can relate. One also must realize just because someone is poor doesn't mean they are automatically good. I've met incredibly nice poor people but I have also met some despicable poor people. Also I was a Oneness Pentecostal for over a decade and I realized my baptism by them wasn't valid. When it comes to salvation, there's a lot to look into church and pastor wise.
I understand where you are coming from and there is some truth to it. However, I will challenge that coming from a small village in Pennsylvania, there is also the phenomenon of provincialism where people are not challenged by the very fact that they come from a fairly homogenous culture where even the stores cater to those needs and do not really offer any opportunity for exploration. You never have the experience of ever trying Asian or Middle Eastern food or culture if all that's offered is what you grew up with and not interested that there is a whole world out there. It wasn't until I went to college at 19 and then had the experience of doing grad study in Europe that I get to know myself better bc everything was challenged from the language, culture and food. I was often put in uncomfortable and awkward situations where I had to learn to adapt, expand. and grow. It was lonely and isolating at times but it forced me to interact out of necessity at times. I'm definitely not saying globalism is the answer, but "shopping around" is not bad if done reflectively. I was spiritually miserable as a Roman Rite Catholic and began "shopping around " to different Byzantine Catholic parishes and I instantly felt more myself there than anywhere. After almost 20 yrs now, I'm deeper in bible study and the spiritual life than I ever was as a Roman Rite Catholic. But that's me and likely another person might have the opposite experience. I say pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance. He might be inviting you to stay where you are to grow or He might be inviting you explore and grow outside of your accustomed box.
I struggle with this as well. As a counter point: Matthew 22 37-39 Loving God comes first, before loving your neighbour. I find some places communities help me love God more.
I agree that there is something honorable in sticking it out at one's local parish, however, given that the Church permits to a degree liturgical variation and does not insist on our attending the local parish it seems best to simply go to the Church that you want as the liturgical variety is designed to cater to the tastes of different groups. I know that it is not ideal but it is the landscape that we find ourselves in and we are helpless to fight it except in voting with our attendance. When one does find that ideal parish, they should stick with it so that they can build a community there, where their preferences are met.
I don't get why people make up their own rules when everyone else is following the Church's rules. It's the Church's job to tell everyone else what to do and how to be a good Catholic. Be Protestant if you want cowboy theology and making up rules and narcissist power grabbing.
@@Poodle_Gun I agree no one should go outside of the parameters that the Church has set but even within the rules there is wiggle room that leads to diversity on liturgy. For example, a guitar and organ are both allowed for liturgical music because the Church allows them but this diversity contributes to the desire to Church Shop.
You make a good point, but at the same time, we live in the world of today. We may not have the super-super market with that huge range of choice, we may be faced with the small group who have made their decision - not to include anyone different. Or there may be a clique leader who decides to bring the group together by identifying one scapegoat, and unless the harassment is tempered with inclusive love and encouragement to "remove your hat at your aunt's dinner table", your best choice may be leaving that exclusionary group harassment. Prayer and meditation, and in some cases, consulting with the clergy, may be key.
This weird standard doesn't work in the modern world unless you convert everyone in the country to Catholicism and move them in right next to each other so it's like Europe. What a stupid idea, grouping people into groups of 20 or so that are never allowed to communicate with each other. Sounds like a great way for your community to get engulfed by society. Not a viable way of doing things.
Precisely the world of today has made us into narcissistic brats who perceive disagreement and correction as harassment. That's why there's laws against "misgendering". Read the comments in here. A good amount are rationalizing their parrish choices as if they were to buy a car.
I actually feel conflicted about church shopping. It would be awesome if we had a good church close by. But there are a lot of problems with our local church (we live in a small, rural village). There are no other families with young kids. And I would like my kids to have contact with other Catholic children. We also don’t have a permanent priest at the moment, so every Sunday we have a different visiting priest and no access to confession. So we’ve decided to attend both our local church and regularly visit a good and vibrant church in the closest city, which is unfortunately almost an hour drive away from us. I think you can’t generalize. t’s not an ideal situation. Everybody has to find a church arrangement that works for them and their family.
Good and honest take, also very timely for our family. For now, we have decided to keep attending our local parish and attend a tlm further away on a monthly basis. It's sort of an awkward situation because the liturgy at our local parish has never been great, but I worked there for several years before I became a sahm. I really struggled working for a parish that left so much to be desired, but I know so much of that had to do with our pastor- God love him, he's just a product of his seminary formation As terrible as this sounds he's aging not in great health, so he may not be around much longer. In all honesty, I just really wish there was a NO around us that "played by the books". I do like the TLM, but maybe it's more of an appreciation for our heritage that draws me into it. Anyway, mass isn't about me and all that stuff 😊.
I’m sick and tired of “grit your teeth and put up with it” parishes, and “stay in your box and pray, pay and obey.” It’s not selfish at all to want to find a good parish with a good pastor. I “get” what you say, but after a lifetime up putting up with mediocre or worse I’ve had it. Nothing changes unless you vote with your feet.
Protestants don't work that way. They don't care as deeply about church theology as Catholics do. They go to whichever church has the best leadership or programs for their kids. It could be Presbyterian or the Community Bible Church, and nobody cares. The theological differences aren't seen as large, even though they're much larger than things like the filioque debate. Modern day Protestants never, never debate theology like predestination. It's considered "nonessential".
A neighbouring parish, and the social club in a neighbouring parish, may offer better opportunities for single people to meet the opposite sex. At the extreme, the social club in my own parish could be men-only. Talk it over with your parish priest.
I sympathize a lot with your coming to terms with the negative aspects of church shopping. It's something I have been guilty of as well. I like your analogy of the big supermarket vs. a small corner store. I think a lot about how we are expressly called to obedience to our bishop and pastor and are heavily encouraged by the Church and tradition to attend and be involved in the community of our parish. In many ways wouldn't it be better if more charismatic Catholics and trad Catholics attended their local parish and engaged with each other, rather than attend the particular churches that cater to each and every personal desire? Does this not lead to more division? Surely, we can learn more about what it means to be a Christian when we encounter our neighbors more openly and with charity, than if we simply drive 20 minutes further to go to the mass that makes us "feel" better.
My wife and I struggle with this because 90% of the people who are my age that are the next leaders of the church have left. We made the decision to stay to plant seeds but it’s so hard when we see thriving churches that have it made.
It's also easier to support the unborn (a silent, always agreeable population) than to help single moms. By your logic, we should also embrace public education, and not homeschooling, because this is a curated, self-directed style of éducation for our families.
Because they are silent that they must be protected because they have no voice no matter what happens to them. The fact you view them in such terms as "always agreeable" speaks volumes on your own character.
@@silverhawkscape2677 yes, my character who wants to help mothers keep their children, who believes we all have a responsibility to keep the people around us well after they're born. If that's a negative character trait, we must know a completely different Jesus from each other.
How can we possibly know if the church we attend is not heretical if we don't expose our minds to different verses and interpretations? Church-shopping is an admiral thing to do, and Jesus would be proud of Christians who make an effort to listen to a different person's ideas each week, especially if those people are not themselves Christian.
The fact that this topic is a topic demonstrates the tragedy consuming the Christian Faith. When “cliques” and individual personalities of parishioners, Priests or Pastors become a distraction to your Church going experience it isn’t a problem with your relationship with them. It’s a problem with your relationship with the Holy Spirit. The obvious exception is of course when you Church begins to embrace immortality. The Orthodox Church avoids this chaos by removing personality from the equation as you don’t hear the opinions of a charismatic priest attempting to entertain you but rather you are singularly focused on hearing the wisdom of the Apostles and Church Fathers and receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit, at least that’s the goal. And yes, that is true regardless of the “ethnic”component. If you want to worship Christ and receive his mysteries it won’t matter. If you want a garden party full of attendees with the same background, socioeconomic standing and tastes then have a party and invite whoever you want.
@@generic_account2138 How do you know who the faithful are? And faithful to what? Christ or an evolving Church? What I didn’t get is if Catholicism’s isn’t faithful to its own doctrine to the point people need to “church shop” how do you know which church is correctly applying doctrine. Between denominations it’s easy. Protestants have various things like Westminster Confession of Faith or Institutions of the Christian Religion. For evangelicals it’s even easier gay pastors or women pastors or who has the best band. Read their menu and decide if you like it comeback and order the same thing again. A 900 page summary of belief like the Catechism that is applied with individual interpretation equals the chaos the video and every comment to it proves. Catholicism isn’t even catholic inside itself anymore. Their is literally nothing catholic about it except the modern universal desire to evolve and that is very sad and is going to be hard to stop and probably impossible to correct.
Amén brother. This has been on my mind and heart as of late. Came to the conclusion that the brothers that church shop are a variation of of our Protestant brothers who decided they know better than the Holy Spirit and the Holy Church. A holy mass is a holy mass. No matter how the priest preaches or if there are girl altar servers, or the language spoken. Make your community strong. Don’t just insist on someone else giving you all you want on a silver platter. You are where you are for a reason. It is on every single one of us to be a community. And it starts with taking mass seriously. As opposed to everything being just as I expect it to be.
Let us know when your church is like Fr. Martin's parish in New York and how you deal with it. Taking the Mass seriously begins at the top. There's a reason why the Church hasn't forbid people from going to other parishes.
