The coloured identity 

These ladies did an amazingly fantastic job in articulating and communicating this topic. 🇿🇦❤️🇿🇦❤️🇿🇦

Iam glad we’re having this conversation as a country ❤

Am black and i don't have problem with coloured people. We are all our own,lets love them and respect who they are and there cultures.

Life, culture, life stories all come with living spirit. With due respect being black for isn’t political, it's culture, it's language, it's how I interact with other people around me, it's race and all the prejudice against me that comes with it, etc. Am black and will always be black. With RESPECT to the pannelists to be coloured and the say you can't employ black teachers here or vice versa is to who you are and against others, but I agree people should define themselves and live in their own terms

My coloured friends are all proud of being coloured and their own unique culture. I'm sure there are a few exceptions.

I'm coloured from Westbury and super proud to be coloured! It's not an insult to be called white, asian or black, it's just that people need to accept that we are our own people that actually doesn't want to be black enough or white enough. We are happy the way we are which is the most diverse race on the planet.

Thank you ladies, I commend you and I am so proud as this is a defining moment for us coloured people of SA. I am cape coloured born and breaded and still experience racism in the work place by whites. Please get those books in the stores so that our children can read and those t-shirts too please so that we can proudly wear them!

Im coloured proudly coloured... period

Im from the family of coloured but it doesn't bother us bcoz we celebrate culture. Proudly who we are.

So proud of these young ladies. Eloquent & so articulate

The problem is finding comfort in being classified by our skin coulor by our colonizers and it continues to divide than to build. Before Jan van riebeeck we were africans

Proud Kullid ! marrried to a man of Tswana n Colored heritage ...we hve beautiful exotic looking kids ...Many ways of being Colored ... Jst enjoy being alive ...in a time like this❤😊❤😊

It's complicated, very complicated. We are all human with different backgrounds. We all want to be loved and respected but we will behave differently in situations, we speak differently, we eat different food.

I am a coloured South African and proud of what our people bring to the South African culture

My Mother says we were classified by the Boer pulling a pencil through our hair. Tight hair was classified differently to straight hair 😂. Proudly tight and Coloured ❤ 🇿🇦

We have mix coloured like my gran father he was white he married a beautiful Coloured woman my gran Ma ....Now my dad children were born with blonde hair some blonde and some dark hair We proudly being a Coloured who ever look different we Love them where we meet them....All Coloured have love for each other from me growing up until now....By being Coloured white Africans we all Humans we God people ❤❤❤

Proud of you ladies.

Hahaha, when i travel aboad people think i am from Italy, Portugal, Turkey, India lol..and I am like just think whatever...i am tired explaining my ancestry background. Coloured people comes from different ancestry backgrounds. The white man didnt know what to call us so the name coloured word came out. There are coloured people who looks more white than the white people themselves lol...my great grandfather comes from Holland met his dark skinned french wife. So some of the children came out looking " coloured" and some looking very dutch. This caused problems and problems. It divided us as a family. Our white relatives doesnt want to know us and we okay with that. We happy being called coloured . I grew up in a happy coloured community. I am not ashamed to tell people i am coloured but abroad i am tired explaining myself so i let them think what i am.

IF AFRICAN MEN HAD PROTECTED THEIR WOMEN FROM THE SETTLERS , WE WOULDNT BE HAVING THIS COLOURED CONVERSATION.

Whoever is associating colourd culture with violence and gangsterism is doing out ignorence. I think we need to educate our selfs about south African history.

Im coloured and proud 2 be one

i need this book

This is basically how Louisiana Creoles in the U.S. define themselves there are heavily mixed creoles and then there are white creoles who are mostly white and there are black creoles who say they are black American but Creole also.

To understand this...People must start reading the comments....the White Domkoppe has got a long way to go...you don't shake off 350years of white dominance in 30years....A big problem about many issues in SA is people lost their sence of thinking rationally...

To me, the word colored in the South African context means a black African tribe, just like Xhosa, Sotho, Zulu, and coloured.

My fellow south africans , culture or classification by apartheid is not your identity. YOUR identity comes from your father not your mother or community ...you do not choose who you are , your father's chromosome that gets passed to your children...determines your identity...your value...your confidence...

I have an identity crisis. My father is coloured and my mother is black, I grew up in black township and I look more coloured. Growing up I classified as coloured, but since well being coloured is about culture, does that mean I can’t classify as one?

If it ain't one thing it's a nother it a crazy crazy world that's why I love dimples listen to the lirycs

She speaks of the young people music coming from Colored SA , the music is steep in Black American Hip Hop culture. Not the SA Colored culture

What about African Creole term. ?

I love the story the ladies bring home about our people, the coloured people. We are infact Afrikanders and as always the Afrikaners took uit the "d" and stole the word and calling of our people. Afrikanders is a collective word, inclusive of all the indigenous people, griekwa, misbieker, hottentot, nana, boesman and many others. Ons is aangename mense. Ons hoef ons nie te verduidelik nie.

whats da difference between coloured and mix race? my child doesn't identify herself self coloured...intresting!!

I LOVE THESE TWO WOMEN. I wish they could debate the celebrity wannabe Samantha Jansen and put her in her place. She ridicules coloured people and throws our people under the bus to appease Pan Africanist afrocentric black supremacists and coloured hating black people. Some, if not most of us are mixed with blackness so blackness is very much a part of our family tree. That DOES NOT MEAN that we have to one drop rule ourselves out of existence and deny the fullness of our identity. I am COLOURED AND PROUD to be. Samantha Jansen wants to become a celebrity off of trashing our people. These 2 women give me hope for the future of COLOURED PEOPLE. Their VOICES NEED TO BE ELEVATED.

Why don’t coloured people speak Khoi?

I am lighter than both of these women, i am African American and identify as Black. Period. Please don't ever call me coloured.

Whoever trying to define a coloured in South Africa is most certainly a foreigner. The NP Party new coloured people. Likewise the ANC. Did this people in this country suddenly contract dementia over night. Let's ask the question who is the bantu people and where did they come from?

Fact is it was created because they wanted us 2 forget or leave behind xhosa zulu khosan venda and so on and become like them and thr customs that was the whole intent thats what the managed to do with the americans lets not get it twisted you are your fathers child at the end and most of us gave up on that because we became opressed thats why alot of black people also changed thr last names to fit in because our cultures were not accepted by our oppressors

Let them be

The people who defend the coloured tag did not fight for freedom The original name of coloureds are Oorlams Afrikaners

I am good on all the false labels Europeans put on African. I am not black or colored, I am African my ethnic groups Amhara and Igbo. My nationality is USA citizen.

Why White South Africans appear less preoccupied with 'identity' and self-segregation within their 'white' community ? While divisions do exist among them, these divisions do not seem to occupy as much attention as the divisions within the Black community. This extended commentary respectfully challenges the narrative presented by the authors. The argument is flawed on so many levels. I shall limit myself to specific ways in which the authors are effectively defending colonial identity to safeguard the emotions and anxieties of white South Africa. Before delving deeper, let's acknowledge Stephen Groote's enthusiasm for this discussion, perhaps more fitting for another occasion, but still worthy of recognition and appreciation for his contributions. The celebration of diverse ethnic identities, like Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana, and the category of "Coloured," should be understood as deeply rooted in colonial constructs. Historically, the territories now called Africa lacked a pre-existing "Nation"; instead, they were inhabited by diverse communities. The notion of 'nations' is a modern construct tied to European capitalist expansion, both within and beyond Europe. Early European accounts consistently labeled those in African lands as non-white and, in many cases, non-human. Consequently, Africa was perceived as universally Black, subjected to a gaze often referred to as the White gaze, which compartmentalized its inhabitants. With the advent of slavery and colonialism, Africa was formally incorporated into Europe's dominion, a condition that persists in various forms today. To fully grasp the enduring influence of settler colonial power, it's essential to consider the regionalization of Blackness, particularly in the South African context. To do this, we must briefly delve into the historical roots of identity in SOuth Africa. Identity, as we know it today, traces its origins back to the early era of settler colonialism by British and Dutch, German, and French immigrants collectively known as Afrikaners. Essentially, there was no South Africa prior to the onset of settler colonialism; these lands were predominantly inhabited by people seen through the White gaze as non-white or Black. These European groups vied for control over both people and lands, stratifying them based on identity, thus giving rise to various labels and so-called "ethnic" identities. In 1910, they officially established SOuth Africa as a "nation-state," notably excluding Black participation. For instance, one of the key figures in shaping the South African identity, Jan Smuts, in letters to his colleagues before and after the 1910 union, was primarily concerned with the 'Native,' a euphemism for Black individuals. Subsequently, methods were developed to distinguish Black people based on the regions they inhabited. Opportunistic figures like Mr. Buthelezi later claimed demarcated regions like “Kwazulu-Natal” as “Zulu” homelands, relinquishing the broader claim to Blackness in favor of tribal identities. This maneuver helped maintain power while fragmenting the discourse of Blackness and the struggle for place and belonging. Buthelezi accomplished this, and to this day, there are Zulu-speaking South Africans who primarily identify as Zulus (rather than Zulu-speaking individuals), relegating their Blackness to a secondary status. Interestingly; Globally, these individuals predominantly identify as Black first. It is at this level that I believe by proclaiming identity outside of Black and simply use Black as a so called "political identity" is particularly telling in SOuth Africa. This cannot be dissociated from the settler colonial present of SOuth Africa. In my view, the label "Coloured" including all other so called "ethnic" identities (outside of European) is applied in South Africa to manage the anxieties of white South Africans concerning potential loss of claims to South Africa and identity. It is disheartening to witness colleagues staunchly upholding a problematic concept of identity. For instance, they say; Trevor Noah is often referred to as "Coloured" due to his mixed racial heritage - and they reject Trevor's identity as coloured. This is confusing. Ideally, globally, the meaning of coloured is mix-ed. Trevor could then say he is politically Black - but either way, Trevor is in fact coloured. If coloured then is simply culture - why should it be the major identifying feature before one's Blackness. Think about Bishop Alan Boesak - although considered Coloured, the Bishop, in fact is Black. He identifies as Black. Again, the point here is; Engaging in a culture labelled as "Coloured" may involve practicing certain cultural traditions, but it should not obscure one's fundamental identity, which remains Black. This situation highlights an invented interpretation of "Coloured" in South Africa, which can lead to confusion. By historicizing this concept and relying on writings that safeguard certain emotions and interests, we risk perpetuating divided Black unity in the face of neo-colonialism. The two writers frequently draw comparisons between the Zulu identity and the need to defend the Coloured identity. However, this argument lacks the historical nuance that demands not just reading, but critical, self-reflective reading, as mentioned earlier. The term "Coloured" has historically been employed to differentiate Blackness, much like the label "Zulu." Nevertheless, it's imperative to acknowledge that there is no singular entity known as "Zulu"; instead, there are various Zulu-speaking communities. While categorizing Blackness can provide informative insights, it also perpetuates division, aligning with settler colonial logic. Therefore, it is crucial to reject the label "Coloured" and reaffirm Blackness. Some individuals may use "Coloured" to avoid the term "Khoi," which is sometimes seen as derogatory. Similarly, some "Coloured" people who are, in fact, "Khoi" sometimes reject that label, highlighting the complexity of identity within South Africa. The concept of being "politically Black" and referencing Steve Biko is often invoked but not always deeply understood. Sometimes, it is used to avoid the label "Black" as if it's an undesired identity. However, Steve Biko never called for the provincialization of Blackness in South Africa. In fact, Biko commented on the attitudes of certain "Coloured" and Indian comrades who were hesitant to fully embrace Black identity. A recommended read is Mabogo More's book "Biko: Philosophy, Identity, and Liberation," which delves into Biko's less-quoted writings about the debates surrounding Black identity among the oppressed. One thing that becomes evident here is a resistance to embracing Blackness as an identity and a problematic leaning on being "politically Black." This is an avoidance of Blackness and an attempt to further fragment Blackness. It's worth noting that any attempts to fragment Blackness in South Africa, the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places often follow a logic that divides the oppressed based on labels and labeling methods that overlook historical context. Consider, for instance, the group commonly referred to as "Khoi," who are now increasingly viewed as "First Nation." This discourse seems to replicate settler colonial histories from the Americas and Australia, where indigenous populations were subjected to genocide. What it suggests effectively is that; SA is, in fact, a 'nation-state' - even a State. It suggests that South Africa (new colony) is, in fact, outside of Africa. It divides Blacks according to "Nguni" "Khoi," etc. - for the fun and comfort of the settlers. They lie to themselves that some came from up North and 'found' "others" down south - to confuse all of us. Africans had been criss-crossing the continent for thousands of years. No. Africa is historically a Black women's world - it has always been. It has produced different shades of Black that were classified by the divisive onlooker whose intentions were to "stay" and occupy the Place. The idea of "First nation" is deeply problematic and extremely colonial and uncritical. We must read the history, including the archaeological and anthropological work about 'Africa,' with a serious critical lens. Why is it that we never hear about the different shades of Europeans? We know about the Jewish people and how they were racialized - but we never hear much about the different shades of Europeans, especially the so-called "First nations" - I wonder why. To address the initial question of why white South Africans do not seem preoccupied with creating separate identities, one must consider that, for the maintenance of the settler colonial context in Africa, this notion of "nobody's land" must persist. This land, which was subject to slavery and colonialism, needs to remain undefined. Self-identifying as "Coloured" isn't inherently problematic; however, advocating that this culture should be one's primary identity as "Coloured" before acknowledging one's Blackness suggests a reluctance to embrace one's true identity, which is Black. The authors' logic appears to echo the older concept of fetishizing Blackness, as opposed to recognizing the diverse cultural elements within the Black identity. It's crucial to place "Coloured" within the broader context of cultural richness. Some individuals may be culturally "Coloured" while still identifying as Black. This distinction, while seemingly similar to the authors' argument, underscores a shift away from provincializing Blackness within the South African context. Such provincialization caters to white anxieties and settler colonialism, ultimately hindering the progress of Black people.

How about we are African?

I am a white African, born in Zambia. 100 000 years ago my ancestors migrated from south Africa up Africa, into Europe and finally north Europe. When they started their nomadic migration they where the colour of the khoi people of 🇿🇦. As they progressed north to the equator the became darker and their bodies changed to compensate for various reasons. As they headed further north their skin became pale until they got to northern Europe where not only were they white, but they had more hair to keep them warm, due to the cold. If my white family live in Africa for 100 000 years, they will be black. If a black mans family live in northern Europe for 100 000 years they will be white and hairy. That's the only difference between you and I.

STREET NAMES ARE CHANGED,LETS ALL SAs CALL EACH OTHER, i.e. GAZI,DIAMOND,MPINJI, ETC,BUDDY..

Can we work hard on understating ourselves,before you go and try to understand someone else.

Why aren't Coloureds referred to as White or Asian?

Black or colored. We never named ourselves. This is just word play . Its a colonial joke.its based on interacial relationships not culture.Theres mixed children worldwide with all soughts of cultures infused because of it but its not complicated.

All over the world people will try to find away not to identified as Black , as if saying call me anything as Black

Im proudly coloured,,,i dont care how many times this "race " thing is debated,its just people's opinions anyway!!! Leave people alone,,,this has been debated to death and nothing has changed!!

I don't appreciate the word "coloured" either.. it's an apartheid terminology 😞

I know some who wouldn't like to be called black.

This ones are confused yaz

Well said, coloured people must not detach themselves from blacks, for they have black heritage

octoroon

Or did culture become classification? Also, Why do they consider themselves "politically Black", when the ANC is discriminating against them with AA & BEE?

U don't wanna speak Zulu, they don't wanna speak khoi khoi or Xhosa etc. ..

There is ni race called coloured this us funny this people are black just lighter skin

Misconception.

The term black is a social construct status meaning nonexistent or dead under the black codes color of law(Civility Mortuus)and has no legal standing. Black is a color not a race or ethnicity or nationality. (Matt 24:3,14,42,44; Rev 7:9,10)

Blackness is a sign of oppression. 😂 ohh my skin colour, how did we get here?

On this earth is black and white. ALthough these colours dont exactly refer to human beings.What is it with red indians? I Will never like to be called a coloured.If I am not white then l am black I will rather accept my self to be called black. IF one of my parent is white another one black then I am a mixed child it is apity I belong to both, Black and awhite .Where am l now going to be put , by none Whites or none Blacks?. lwill choose to be called aSouthAfrican. (never mind which direction but just look where l was born.. THe country where l was born is SouthAfrica and l am a SouthAfrican. l would belong to all the traditions of the country .. OFCOURSE l have my name if you want to call me.

Aaaaag this is boring, This is just a BOOK selling Campaign

What is coloured 😅

Do they eat birds? I mean crows,sorry budgies, sorry i mean chicken, i mean ostrich............? You are what you are!!!!

I am a colored from Swaziland, we are such a beautiful, diverse culture, our white faces, straight noses, or flat and wiry hair. We are not complaining, can the media not make a story out of this for clicks

Stop messing with colonial identity.

The coloureds on Cape town are ... omg😂😂😂😂

Always worried about the past and being oppressed we will never move forward.