EDIT: Since I think it's important, this video was recorded on May 4th, right before Robin (and by extension 2.2 came out). I'm aware that break teams are on the rise with Harmony MC. Check back in a week or two when Boothill comes out and then check back again when Firefly/Jade come out. My thoughts will be in this pinned comment~ (Thoughts on Boothill) - Boothill will be in the *Excellent* section. I personally don't find him to have that much pull value since you can ultimately make do without him despite break teams being very strong in the right circumstances, but if you do decide to grab him then he's one of the easiest characters to gear up, needing only break effect and having great f2p friendly teammates (Gallagher + HMC). HOWEVER, hunt light cones supplying break effect or break related buffs are practically nonexistent right now outside of his own, and the gap between his BIS and second BIS is measurable. (Thoughts on Firefly + Hindsight on Acheron) - Firefly will be in the *Top Tier* section, and on second thought I'll also move Acheron to *Top Tier* as well since empirically she's proven to just be that much better than everyone else (I still stand by my thought process that DPS units fundamentally are more replaceable than supports, but it seems like Hoyo is doing everything they can to make Acheron a must have lol). Firefly basically Acheron 2.0, not in the literal sense, but in terms of just how strong she is. Despite being a break oriented unit, Firefly can work for virtually every situation in the game. Like Acheron, Firefly starts out really strong at base with the caveat that you cater to her team, but then gets drastically stronger with Eidolons to the point where she becomes Thanos and destroys everything. These two characters are in a class above everyone else without question, and have by far the highest practical ceilings in the game. The key negative thing about Firefly is that, being a break reliant character, anyone who can lock toughness gauges - such as her own boss version LMAO - can really screw her damage over. But against literally every other type of enemy she's disgustingly broken with virtually no debilitating weakness. (Thoughts on Jade) - Coming soon~
ITB also brought many characters' value higher such as Gallagher, Xueyi, Misha, Sushang, etc. You can even partner ITB with Ruan Mei for even more insane breaking ability and damage. Those two are basically the Kafka and Black Swan of break
HMC should definitely be on excellent on the basis that they literally enable a new kind of team They are even more essential to break than Kafka is to DoT
17:08, just so you know. Aventurine does actually have a crit dmg res debuff on his ult. So can compete with Fire mc and Geppie it’s just that his debuff is less accessible
i feel like you have to have a pretty fundamental lack of understanding to get that wrong, plus him not even mentioning that the entire reason fire MC is so good with acheron isn't just the debuff on skill but taunt + trends lc
@@sdfasdfgdfghfghThis, and to be honest I prefer to use Aventurine alongside Acheron than with Fire MC thanks to the extra buffs he gives to allies and since he's such a good shielder he can easily solo sustain any team in any game mode with no issue.
Yeah that was a boop on my part. I realized later (this was recorded I think May 4th or something, right before Robin came out) when I was working on a top five best teams that I misremembered aventurine’s crit damage boost is a debuff on the enemy not a field effect. So aventurine is Acheron’s BIS tank not fire TB
@@VarsIIprobably a mixup with his e1, which does exactly that. there are so many characters in the game now that its almost impossible not to forget about very specific parts of their kits or even more specific interactions between them,
After 2.2 you can see the real value of Misha. He has the highest toughness break in a single attack with his ultimate and can extend the duration of toughness break with his freeze. He's really made for HMC super break teams.
@@wyattb20 her value has been increasing since pure fiction, also i took her over bronya at my 300 and never regretted that decision xD i have enough speed and decent relics to not rely on turn advance anyways. small builds flex at enka network 700336217 :D
HTB can turn basically any character into a break DPS. Yes, it works best on characters with high toughness dmg (Asta, Misha, Welt), but you can compensate with Ruan Mei. Super Break is nuts, it's a bit like hyperbloom, requiring building the right stats on the team & committing hard, but has a naturally high damage floor if you can pull it off. And Sushang is great in break teams, her kit revolves around being a break DPS & she's physical, which (along with fire) has the highest break multiplier of the elements. With HTB, she's really good now.
This tier list completely ignores the break team possibilities of HTB making a lot of characters more viable, and bringing Xueyi's stat requirements significantly down.
Worst take, among many rather good takes, is that Topaz is niche tier only because she is a playstyle enabler for follow up teams, like kafka is for DoT teams, her value goes up the same way that kafka does when a character that supports that archetype is released.Therefore logic dictates that if Kafka is excellent so is Topaz.
Kafka can work well in a team without DoTs. Topaz... can somewhat work. Topaz is worse, but definitely isnt that low. Though unlike what most people say, she doesnt work that well with clara.
@@kuratse205 Most bias take I have ever seen saying kafka can work without DOT but topaz can’t work without FuA TM? You do realize kafka was B-tier before black swans release right? Remove DOT and kafka is horrible this shouldn’t be a debate
@@zerovking7629 I dont know what nonsense tier list you listen to, but both without their respective DoT/FUA teams are terrible. They both can work in hypercarry, but topaz is just objectively worse. Topaz is a ST FUA amper. Kafka is a AOE DoT proccer. In HSR, ST is worse than AOE, and topaz only has her own FUAs to amp in hypercarry, while Kafka can use weakness break and talent application for DoTs to proc. In my experience, my super high investment Topaz is similar in effectiveness as a mid investment pure DoT kafka (no crit) on my friends list, as hypercarry with e6s5resolution 174spd pela, e2s1 167spd 210crtdmg sparkle, and e0 fu xuan. I rigged it in topaz's favour, with the kafka being unable to crit while my topaz has 80/300crit
Topaz is not nearly as good as Kafka though. Both on their own or at what they enable. You can run a FUA team without Topaz because Topaz doesnt do anything specifically amazing to enable the team, she's just good at being a part of a FUA team unless you have her E1 or S1. Kafka on the other the other hand enables DOT, explodes them faster & ramps up the damage. Anyone would run a FUA team without Topaz, but no one is gonna run a DOT team without Kafka unless its a Black Swan team & they dont have Kafka (but thats copium, everyone would want Kafka even with BS)
umm weakness implant is not the only thing silverwolf does ...... what about the 45% def down for 3 turns (dont know the exact number) , all type res pen , the speed attack and def bugs the debuff application and amount of debuffs is out of the world too excellent tier imo
I agree so fucking hard with this, for whatever reason people have only been seeing her as weakness implant and underrate her significantly. 45% def shred on ult, 10% all-type res shred, 10% atk decrease, 8% def shred on talent, 6% speed shred. Even pela at e6 doesn't come close to the sheer utility and debuffing of sw.
The issue is when there are multiple enemies, but when there is a single enemy she is pretty unmatched in debuff capability. She's pretty amazing for bossing, with the new mode coming out next patch she'll likely rise in tier ranks well over what Pela but in AoE she's below her. I do think people overlook everything that SW provides, but I wouldn't say excellent, niche is a pretty proper spot for her as of right now but she should be excellent in 2.3.
Feel like you're underselling H!MC a lot. They're not in anyway at the same level as the other top Harmonies, but they allow characters like Sushang, Misha, Xueyi to be more than decent and allows Himeko to exist outside PF. They're tailor made for Break, but even without swapping all your DPSes relics to break, it's just a straight up from a very decent to good additional damage source.
Being niche doesn't mean they're bad or subpar, it's just they are only very good at a very specific purpose and not much else outside of that. Though I do agree that I think Silver Wolf should be at *least* Decent tier, because implanting weaknesses and inflicting a myriad of debuffs can be helpful for the majority of teams in the game.
Acheron's technique alone makes her worth pulling, the amount of time it saves is just too good, and with trick snacks being basically free you will never enter combat in the open world again (except for formidable foes :/)
Agreed. I had the easiest time farming chests for e5 HTB. Only took me like 6 hours clearing all of penacony. Without archeron, I would have spent way more time on this.
Acheron’s lightcone looks awesome, but aventurine’s is definitely going first. I’m saying this with a pfp of his lightcone. Edit: okay not with a pfp of his lightcone but uh.. still, it's sick.
Naaaahhhhh, Pitch-Dark Hook the Great slander is crazy. She's like a Destruction version of Serval, she can spam her ult alot through out the fight especially at e4
She has low dmg, bad/mid eidolons, and is also in a weird state where she has both DoT and hypercarry elements especially since she is ST most of the time and only has her enhanced skill like I believe after she ults is not good if you have low dmg you make up in AoE but she doesn't
Pretty much agree, except for a few bits. First, the part where you said Herta is "virtually unusable outside of [pure fiction]" is just wrong. She's very usable, especially in Simulated Universe and even in MoC. Her issue is the same as Argenti, though, in that she really wants good match ups like, say, the Deer, Team Leader, some variations of the Swarm. I don't necessarily disagree with the tier placement since Herta is a unit whose shine depends on the game mode you throw her in, but "virtually unusable" is just untrue. Pela in high tier and Silver Wolf in niche doesn't make sense. With the exception of AOE Silver Wolf is literally a "anything you can do, I can do better" character to Pela. Silver Wolf's def shred is stronger, Pela needs E4 to reduce ice resistance whereas Silver Wolf can just thanos snap away elemental resistance (even if it is a random element), and Pela needs a LC to debuff with normal attacks, whereas Silver Wolf's talent means she's always applying debuffs. This last bit is important to hammer home, because the Pearls of Sweat LC doesn't give Acheron stacks if you reapply its debuff, but Silver Wolf's bugs always do. The only areas Pela beats Silver Wolf in is an AOE ult and accessibility. Otherwise, Silver Wolf's better. Not so much better that they should be different tiers, but I do think they should be the same. And lastly, for those who read far enough, congrats! You found the one person who has built and played Misha! I like him, he is good, and you can get a lot out of him. But at the end of the day he is a 4 star damage dealer. Maybe if the break meta becomes a real thing he'll have a place since a 10x bounce will eat through toughness like it's nothing, but he has the same problem as Hook where the kit is good but not unique. Meaning if you play for fun he'll be a great unit, but if you play for meta he doesn't offer anything that can't be given to you by another character except the 10x ultimate bounce and defense shred at E2. Like I said I like him, he's fun, and I've cleared MoC with him, but I'm not gonna come out here and say "such an under rated character!" (even if he technically is since no one is giving him any credit when he deserves *at least* a little) Edit: I wrote this comment before building Harmony Trailblazer, and after a bit of casual testing I can say confidently that Misha is really good with HTB. I used them both on the second half of MoC 10 against True Sting with Herta and Aventurine. Not really a recommended team as it's pretty SP negative and I would have liked to do floor 11 or 12 but neither of them recommend Ice right now. But regardless, Misha can be used pretty effectively if you know what you're doing
While i agree with a lot of silver wolf's points, aoe is very important right now. Most of the time you're fighting 2 big bosses. Pela's 40% def shred on both of them is better than sw's 45% def shred only on 1 enemy.
@@kazekori9593 I can agree with that. As I said her ultimate AOE is one thing she has over SW. I'm just saying they should be in the same tier, because sometimes you really need that AOE and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you need the more consistent stacking for Acheron and sometimes you don't. My only real disagreement is that I think they should be in the same tier
@@kazekori9593 to be fair counting the bugs its actually 53% def shred on silver wolf, let alone some additional speed and attack debuffs, and the ability to res shred any element. Her ult is also relatively easy to generate especially if you have tutorial on her or especially E1(if you wanna whale a little more). i think its fair to say she's "at least" at pela tier and not 2 whole tiers lower if I'm fighting constant mob waves or somehow 3 bosses i would take pela, otherwise in almost every other scenario especially 1/2 boss battles ill take silverwolf
Small correction, Aventurine can in fact debuff an enemy via his ultimate and make them receive more Crit DMG, so he is good to be paired with Acheron. I wouldn’t say that HTB is niche since they can allow anyone to deal great damage just by building Break Effect. I think Acheron should definitely be in a higher tier. With the proper investment, she can pretty much bypass her need for her LC and even her talent which implores her to be paired with other Nihility characters. I, for one, didn’t pull for Acheron’s LC yet she’s still reaching at least 100,000 DMG per ultimate and 30,000 per skill even with a nonS5 LC.
1. Your acheron is just not great. I'm sorry, but she should be hitting much much higher than that even without her lc 2. Regardless I still agree with the decision of not putting acheron in top teir
@@sageofsixpaths8392 Still, reaching at least 6 digits per ultimate and without other Nihility teammates, her signature LC, and Eidolons isn’t really something to sleep on.
100k ult and 30k skill is kinda low, i have E0S0 Acheron and her ult does 300k on single and 600k if there's multiple, and for skill its between 75-90k (she has perfect relic though). the the only reason i pulled her because her tech, but yeah i agree with everyone saying Acheron is suck without her signature, the difference like heaven and earth and i experience that myself.
@RonieTheddy03 Nobody's saying she's bad, she literally the best dps in the game with decent investment but the damage your doing is nowhere near her true capabilities 100k isn't impressive from a dps anymore my seele can hit 220k on a single target. And if you for some reason are playing e0 acheron without other nihility then you should also be using characters like sparkle, ruan mei, robin, bronya etc to mega buff her and still do crazy damage
It's so absurd how good Pela is for being a launch 4-star when two of her traces and last Eidolen don't do that much for her (personal damage buffs on a debuff unit).
I unironically built Misha, and I really like using his ultimate and see them shred through a boss’s toughness bar. But yeah his placement in the tier list. I also heard people make Misha a Welt sustain at home. So he’s either Jingliu at home, or Welt Sustain at home.
Calling Silver Wolf niche is insane slander. Even if she doesn't inflict the weakness you want, she has more Def shred and debuffs than Pela. While Pela has AoE, that's not enough of a game changer that they would be in different tiers. Especially considering how much stronger SW is for 1-2 targets.
@minako-chan1420 exactly. His justification for SW doesn't even make sense. And JY being a tier OVER Seele? Nah chief. Same tier? Sure, arguable. His recent HSR takes have been awful. 😭
@@xanaviii yes I think he's really powercrept by other damage dealers too. He can only deal tons of damage when you have his LC. Plus, his follow up attack, you couldn't manipulate the Lightning Lord's speed and the fact that it could only be used once every cycle, it just sucks 😭 (Even if you build him with crit rate above 60%, if your lightning lord doesn't crit, your entire cycle would just go in vain, that's such a major downside for him) 😭
Regardin Tingyun: In one of te first patch for the game I recall reading that coders wronly gave her a much higher "taunt value" that she sould have had and that was removed, but seeing she keeps getting attacked I can only think that the reason for that is that Tingyun is treated as a Destruction unit (which have a higher taunt value than Hamony units) because of her part in the story, basically making her taunt value a temathic gameplay addition.
Doesn't matter, all these characters will be power crept soon anyway. If you care about tier list or meta don't pull anything for the next 2 years, all the chars you have now gonna be useless
I mostly agree... buuut.. - I would put Silver Wolf in Excelent tier list since she does provide a lot of defense shred. - I would also move Tingyun down into Excelent tier list as well because she isn't really as good as Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Bronya or Robin, they provide as much and more damage boost but for the entire team. If you could choose between having any of these characters or Tingyun in your team, you would almost always choose any of those 4 instead of her simply because they give more value. - Acheron into top tier because of her insane damage even though I know over time she will probably be powercrept, but I think she will always stay relevant, like Hu Tao in Genshin, she came out in version 1 but is still one of the best DPS. Also tier lists are prone to change so characters should be judged based on the current status of the game. - And maybe Gallagher into Excelent tier list if you have him E2 since he provides team-wide healing, cleanse and effect res, his ult allows him to act instantly so he can cleanse or heal..
One could argue that Tingyun is more valuable than Bronya because Sparkle can do everything Bronya does but better and more comfortable. There's no other Harmony supports that offer the same utility as Tingyun does that a lot of DPS units demand -- energy generation. JY, DHIL, Argenti, Ratio, etc. all prefer having Tingyun as their support for a reason.
Gallagher definitely deserves to be excellent alongside tingyun and pela. He is the best 4 star sustain without a doubt, his healing is low key cracked especially for splash and aoe damage dealers, easily healing 3-4k health per attack, he has flat healing instead of scaling making him super easy to build, he scales well with break effect making him a strong sustain in HMC teams, He has absurd toughness damage as ult into basic attack deals 150 toughness to a single enemy and still 60 aoe, and He's the most SP positive healer in the game even more than Luocha. Especially once you get Eidolons since he's a 4 star, he becomes even more cracked, e1 lets him have bascially 80% eff res for free which depending on lightcone or substats can make him straight up immune to all debuffs, E2 gives nice debuff cleanse as well as eff res for allies, e4 gives even more ult uptime which he already has decent (assuming moderate team speed), and e6 gives him weakness efficency which is not only super rare right now but makes hit ult basic combo deal a whopping 180 tough damage, the highest of any character in the game. Gallagher is a very strong 4 star and i find myself bringing him even over huohuo, and fu xuan sometimes depending on the team
@@lewsee5562 Tingyun is a great support don't get me wrong, but Tingyun doesn't bring nearly as much value as compared to the other 5 star supports. Secondly, the shifting meta is causing Tingyun to become redundant in many teams. Let me give you the current top 5 teams. Acheron - Currently the best dps no doubt. However, Tingyun has negative synergy with Acheron for obvious reasons. DHIL - Runs Sparkle over Tingyun because while Tingyun allows ultimates and Squama stacks, Sparkle gives more points and speed Jingliu - Runs Pela and Bronya almost exclusively due to how strong the synergy is between the three. Tingyun COULD work for a hypercarry Jingliu, but Ruan Mei is better as a 4th slot. Black Swan/Kafka - Doesn't rely on their ultimates to deal damage. Tingyun COULD work with Black Swan, but the extra energy isn't particularly useful. Dr. Ratio - His best team consists of follow up attackers such as Aventurine and Topaz, making Tingyun's energy almost useless. While Tingyun WAS a great support during the start of the game, the current meta doesn't revolve around ultimates anymore.
Herta and Erudition units aren't just only useful for Pure Fiction and useless everywhere else. 90% of the content in this game for most people is farming Calyxes. They are the best and fastest unit for this purpose.
100% agreed. We have to remember Simulated Universe exists, and while it doesn't get updated nearly as often as MoC or PF, when it does get updated it has some of the hardest content by that point. And given the customization of that mode, you can get pretty much anyone in the game up to optimal levels of play, which is great for characters whose full potential is usually locked behind their AOE range And what's funny is Herta is great in Gold and Gears because all the possible end bosses both summon lots of minions AND have innate ice weaknesses. It is the perfect mode for her, really
@@paulyvii By the time Acheron gets her Ult, Herta and Himeko would have gone to the next round. Then there is also Argenti who can spam Ult. Heck even Seele is Faster than her in Farming.
28:44 hi, misha main here! went out of my way to pull for him on ildh's banner in 2.0 because i needed an ice character and immediately built him i guess i did do "significant investment" in the sense that i gave him the 5* simuni lc and decent relics, but he does nice damage on his own that only increases when being paired with the crazy supports in this game (he hit 600k the other day w ruan mei) overall he's amazing for freeze, esp in simuni remembrance runs, and super fun with his weakness break
In regards to your point on QQ, when you mentioned IL practically requires Sparkle, I would argue a similar mentality with QQ. She is ok without sparkle, but with sparkle she really takes off. That is key to making the RNG very strong in your favor. I cant remember last time ever failed her RNG due to Sparkle constantly feeding her the SP she needs. As long as you have that combo and know how to play them (not using QQ ult immediately for example), she sky rockets in consistency and damage
as a sushang main, with the right build and supports she can be a MONSTER! throw her with harmony TB and ruan mei, and couple that with the fact we're getting a hunt gamemode and more break relics soon, she's gonna hit her full potential soon!
I've been a Clara main since 1.0, ever since she popped out of the Departure Warp, but I must say that I agree with your "Decent" ranking of her. Clara can be strong, but her over-reliance on enemy actions to even use her FuA is her Achilles' Heel. No other DPS has such caveat, because none of them depend so much on the enemies to use their gimmick. It kinda requires her to team up with someone who can help her with maintaining a high aggro on herself. It also wants her team to avoid CC'ing the enemies, as CC'd enemies can't act or have their action delayed, which can affect Clara using her counterattacks.
but Clara can get ridiculous amounts of value. On PF, she works ridiculously well and can act as a subdps and lets you bring ST dps units to PF. Also, certain enemies play really well into clara's kit, like boss Argenti, that one luofu enemy with two fans, the aoe fire goldfish, and basically all aoe enemy atks. I even find her to be way more useful than my Jing Liu in both MoC and PF (Jingliu has 2.5k atk, 161spd, 35/220 crit, dmg% orb). JingLiu may be good for new players and low investment, but Clara just outperforms her in almost all situations.
@kuratse205 The issue isn't about Clara's performance, but about the innate design of her kit. Just because she can do all those things, it doesn't change the fact that she NEEDS the enemies to attack, just to even use her FuA. If they can't/don't, for whatever reason, then no FuA from her, period. And we're already seeing a hint of that, from the Penacony debuff robots. What if the devs release a boss that just throws bunch of debuffs and DoT's on our teams, but never actually attacks? Clara would be a dead weight then.
@@venn2001ad What you are doing is like saying "If there is a boss that can ignore ult dmg, then archeron would be dead weight". Like, no. The design of clara's atk on hit is really good game design. It's a dmg type, just like DoT and break dmg. Just like how DoT needs the enemies to take their turns, or how break needs to do toughness dmg and broken state, atk on hit needs enemies to hit. Clara has a ridiculously high dmg ceiling and can reach that against enemies that play into her niche. Just because a character is unable to be used in every situation ever, doesnt make them worse. It just makes the game better, because there are more ways to play and more diversity in character usage. Look at warframe for example. That game always gets new updates where the new content just completely nullify old frames' abilities. The problem isnt that the old frames did X. It's that the new content completely nullified X.
@kuratse205 Still doesn't change the fact that it's her Achilles' Heel. Does it make her unique and different, like you said? Sure it does. But that doesn't make it necessarily a positive thing, when her overall performance can be quite inconsistent, at the whims of the RNG. And no, it's not quite the same as DoT's. DoT's don't care what the enemies do, as long as they're applied. As long as the enemies get their turns, they'll procc and ALWAYS do their thing. And unless you CC the heck out the enemies, they WILL get their turns. However, for Clara, you need the enemies to act AND target her, for her to trigger her FuA. What if the enemies get their turns, but decide to buff up instead? Still no counterattacks then. It just creates an extra hoop that other DPS characters don't have to put up with, but she does. So having such high ceiling doesn't mean much, when you can't even reliably get to it, depending on circumstances. Even when you fight the exact same enemies again, things can swing differently, based on RNG.
@@venn2001ad I'm comparing "atk on hit" to "break dmg" and "DoT" as dmg types. All three are dmg types with their own ups and downs. You cant just create the worst possible hypothetical scenario for a dmg type and then call it bad. It's like asking a pure break dmg dps to do dmg to a target that cant get weakness broken state, and then labelling it as bad. Like, no sh*t sherlock. Each dmg type have their own use cases where they are good, and cases where they are bad. It's called tradeoffs and niches. In this case, clara gains a super high dmg ceiling in exchange for some rng and some dependence on enemy types.
I pretty much agree with the majority of the statements in this video, but I would like to mention that Aventurine isn't downgraded compared to Fu Xuan in everything that isn't FUA teams. He provides a debuff on his ultimate that also provides crit dmg, he has big fat shields that get replenished often due to his follow up, he can tear down imaginary weaknesses fairly easily while also helping with the overall damage of the team, he gives 50% Effect Res (which when faced against many debuffs, specially if they happen in a row, is better than 1 secured prevention against 1 debuff), he practically doesn't need to use his basic skill, and then if we talk about higher investment his LC provides another debuff, more dmg for him and even greater shields while his E1 provides even more Crit Dmg and big shield on Ultimate and E2 provides another debuff and overall more damage to the team. I won't deny that Fu Xuan is an incredible preservation unit and that also it all comes down to preferences/taste, but with that in consideration, I wouldn't say that she is the best preservation or that she is better than him except in one case, but rather, they are pretty much on par on average which isn't really a bad thing at all.
I wouldn't be mad about Acheron, but the fact that you have no dps in top tier, and you refuse to put one there is just stupid. Like only utility units could carry you through the game. At least one dps is a must pull.
Was thinking lf the same thing. Like you can have the best supporting cast, but without a very good dps these will fall short. If this was a versatility tier list i'd get it, but it aint. If i may, i say acheron, DHIL, and Jingliu should be there at least. (Well boothill and firefly too but we'll see).
@@migurusu-saint9160 Eh I think it's fine, premium supports can bring even the shittiest of shitters up to doing some funny good clears. Arlan with Aventurine, Sparkle and Bronya shits out damage and can clear anything with electric weakness without really being worried about dying thanks to spammable Aventurine shields. Though I will say in personal practice with all the greatest supports... Yanqing might be unsavagable because bro had 160% crit rate 480% crit damage + 3k Atk and 100%+ Dmg buffs and his skill did only 50k and ult did 70k... like bruh what???? This was with Sparkle/Ruan Mei/Tingyun, bro has to have bugged modifiers or something.
I would bump Guinaifen to decent. She's not restricted to DoT like Luka and Sampo. She can work on any team because of her debuffs like Acheron and Dr. Ratio team
I agree, her Damage ceiling is also higher than Sampo and Luka's and Fire has the Highest Break Effect Multiplier... plus, I think she's the best Fire Character in the game??? Fire is just in a really bad place, along with Wind... having only 1 or 2 even notable characters. Topaz is... Nice? But I think Topaz is even more Niche than Guinaifen. The fact that she needs A LOT of follow up attacks to do any Major damage hurts her viability down to... 3 teams ish? Clara, Jing Yuan and Dr. Ratio, but she is like Kafka in the fact that the more Follow Up Units come out, the more powerful she becomes. All in all, I think Guinaifen has the Top spot for any Fire Character... (Before Firefly).
@@joshuajackson6023 She's also good in Super Break since she is pretty much designed around Break Effect, not Firefly level but very solid and could clear the last MoC with the team of her/Ruan Mei/HMC/Gallagher pretty. At lvl 70/70 (which is a lot lower damage than 80/80 since break scales with lvl) she was putting out 60-80k super breaks, so she has a lot of potential and considering SB teams are a TEAM effort, everyone does damage, this is really good stuff.
I really like Seele and want to use her since she is still my only quantum dps but I feel like my skill level, roster, and build are simply not enough for her to clear some of the harder contents like MoC or PF. Honestly I really envy those who found success with her.
She really wants high investment with her relics, and needs a good team. I got her at launch and gradually stopped using her. It felt like she fell off but then recently started farming for her again and now I can see her damage is still excellent. Top 3 or maybe top 4 dps imo but yeah she isn’t as easy to get great as others.
Regarding Tingyun, if we are playing with the Phantilya possesed Tg, remember she it's a follower of the destruction path, and destruction has the second highest agro in the game after preservation characters!
If there is a character i might say could get a chance to be in top tier as dps... Maybe its kafka since unlike other character who will get downgrade soon, she can and will get stronger as more dot team releases her kit literally revolves around devouring other dot dmg dealers and using them as pedestral to come out on top which other character might never have, she is just representative of nihility at this point💀
probably should add Eidolon 0 only in the title "Eidolons are applied on a case by case basis (5 stars will be graded based on E2 maximum - anything higher will be ignored due to being too expensive" ...what ? then Acheron would go straight up to must pull, her E2 is the one that will help her the most
Misha got his niche in Simulated Universe if you need to clear a run in Swarm disaster or Gold and Gears using Remembrance Path. He is able to freeze very often, if in the future new units come out Increasing damage to Frozen targets as their core playstyles he can become a great sub/main dps.
I do have one argument for xueyi, harmony trailblazer. Acheron is restricted to 2 nihility and a sustain unless you are crazy or have really tough characters in pure fiction. Xueyi ultimate now due to trailblazer has gone from an ultimate thats good at breaking to suddenly an amazing hyberbreak nuke, and extremely versatile Im considering running her with Harm TB, Luocha, and silverwolf for a 2 element break team
I think it’s funny that essentially you can almost seperate the top two tiers by paths. Top tier sustain and harmony vs top tier damage (plus luocha). Not a criticism I agree with basically everything you said (tho I would put Acheron in the highest tier)
Fu xuan best sustain, said pela and silver wolf arent equal, forgot that aventurine has a crit dmg increase debuff, hmc not top tier, Please never cook again
@@r.2696 Definitely Aventurine. Fu Xuan isn't great in higher difficulty content because most bosses deals more damage than Fu Xuan can sustain, while Aventurine can provide a 3000 shield each cycle. He also deals more damage (follow-up attacks), and his crit boost is on par, if not better than Fu Xuan's Crit Rate boost.
@@cornz7126 I mean if your fx is dying in anything besides high sim uni she ain’t built right, my fx clears everything end game, you just need a good enough DPS to do quick cycles so it doesn’t drag which is the point of the game anyway. Sure, he deals a bit more damage, but they’re sustains at the end of the day, isn’t the point of their job. FX CR > Aventurines boost. (E0). I don’t really see how he’s better aside from sim uni or the very few bosses that can one shot/counter fx. They’re good in their own ways, there’s no “best”. I run both E6 and they have their own uses!
Misha's functionality, for me, is his freeze. I don't have good tanks, so I have used him to help with safer 'Starcrusher Swarm King' farm and the 3x 'Lordy Trashcan' encounter. (Also mine has 2,7K ATK 54%/152% Crit R/D. Hits better than my current poor Acheron :D) But yee, I want to like him, but he isn't spectacular. Tho he has been more useful that Xueyi, someone who I also tried to make work. (Tho, reading comments, maybe my boi is more goated than I thought, I will need to experiment with Harmony TB more) Thanks for telling about how tough Acheron is to pull off, I have been slowly building her after half-accidentally pulling her. Maybe I will just stick to my E0 Kafka and E1 BlackSwan till the universe's heat-death, it is just getting bit samey using same team (if only I had managed to get Aventurine for my Topaz. . .)
Oh so thats why you put that post earlier about why tierlists are so controversial. Well this one in particular seems fine and it has credibility due to this being made by a regular and active player who also makes guides and in depth analyses on characters. :D
This is a man of culture putting best girl Qingque in her own tier 😂 The characters I get the biggest numbers with are Acheron, Jingliu, Firefly (especially in a team with Harmony MC) Xuyei and ofc Qingque. I get big numbers with my friends's Blade, Dan Heng IL and with Robin as support too. Considering my favourite characters are Qingque, Herta, Firefly and Jingliu, I'm happy all the characters I like are good in game. (Not the case in Genshin lol)
Acheron is one of, if not THE only damage dealer I'd say is a must pull. You even stated she can break toughness without matching element along with her just being a MASSIVE blast of damage. I have no Eidolons on her and don't have her cone, but Huo Huo/Aventurine with Pela and Silver Wolf just makes her disgusting. She can also fit into a DoT Comp as a 'Just kill the thing' option.
Misha's strengths according to a Misha main (me): - Good single target damage with ult. - Works well in duel DPS scenarios, namely IB Dan Heng and Qingque - Very good in Rememberence Teams That's about it, I personally think he is fun.
I feel like this video was written/made before it became clear how good Harmony TB is, because they are decidedly more than niche, haha! They enable an entire kind of team around themselves, and especially with Ruan Mei you can get silly things like Gallagher doing 100k+ damage as a healer. Harmony TB isn't niche because they can only go in break effect teams, they ARE break effect teams. I feel like that would be like saying Kafka should be niche because she's only for DoT teams. Likewise, a lot of characters have more value because of Harmony TB's existence. Xueyi particularly feels like she should at *least* move up to niche, if not higher, just because of Harmony TB. Harmony TB also improves the performance and use case for characters like Gallagher, Sushang, Misha, etc. I accept if it might not be enough to move some of them per se, but there's more to discuss with these characters at the very least. Sushang definitely shouldn't go in bad though simply because Harmony TB gives her more use than the Physical TBs and Arlans and Dan Hengs of the world. Silver Wolf being niche is also silly to me when she's as good as or better than Pela at Pela's job for the most part. I think they belong in the same tier. And I understand this is a meta analysis so it's not relevant but the comfort SW provides in early, mid, and even late game/MoC clearing for hitting weaknesses you might not have on your account cannot be overstated as far as I'm concerned, RNG or not. There are definitely others I'd move around but those are my main nitpicks. Happy to see where you evaluated Jing Yuan though, his stonks have definitely only gone up with time and I feel like a lot of people still underrate him!
Misha player (and Clara Main) here, Misha is a more accessible version of Jing Yuan but with less damage than him, their mechanics work very similarly but I can say that Misha is turbo broken in SU if that counts for anything because he can constantly freeze enemies with a very low cost Ultimate that AOE Freezes (like March but it actually does damage), I agree with the Average tier
I think his recorded date disclaimer gives him a pass on HMC. Tbh Topaz is almost always paired with ratio and quite expensive if we rate the limited at e0 it's rough for topaz she is probably one of the weaker limited at e0. With regards with silver wolf her niche gets kind of worse and worse outside of mono quantum as you eventually build out enough elements to the point that her weakness implant gets less value over time. Most endgame content is usually at least 2 enemies nowadays too. I have silver but honestly when I build my team I default to Pela way more frequently.
@@kuriboharmy good points...but like...bellow Blade?! Like, Topaz has the best synergy with Robin and right now the follow-up attack team is competing for the best team in the game, Silver Wolf is at least one of the best partners for Acheron and she is the unit that makes the core of monoquantum, even if say that they can only work paired with other units, the same can be said for Black Swan, and she is two role tiers above then
@@VitorSantos-jh9vc I love topaz design but she is arguably the worst E0S0 limited 5 star in the game even with the OP Robin fua composition you will lack the debuffs required to enable Dr.ratio with Topaz alone at E0S0. It is innately a dolphin comp imo and outside of this op Fua comp I feel the investment to get E1S1 topaz is kind of wasteful. At E0S0 the IPC follow up composition is not fighting for best composition in the game but best dolphin comp available though. I mean silver is nice for Acheron but you can get away with dot supports (ppl run Kafka and black swan with her) for a more spread out damage output or just running guinnaifen instead of silver. But silver wolf at this point generally has two teams Acheron (modest upgrade) and mono quantum. Black swan is surprisingly good on her own she works as a debuffer or with sampo(e4) can act as a budget Kafka for her and being a pretty damn good unit in pure fiction too.
Exactly, damage dealers are meant to become obsolete in future. Everyone went nuts over dhil damage because he does 1000% more damage seele can do in a cycle, everybody went nuts over jingliu damage because she can surpass dhil in some situations. Even now, it's the same situation, Acheron can do more than a million damage in a cycle, which is outstanding, to say the very least, but what's stopping hoyo to make another character do more than 3 million damage in a cycle? This is why tierlists based on damage dealers will never almost make any sense. Their value will forever depend on how well they can use the new shiny support.
I think if you're going to put Kafka in Excellent because of her getting better and increasing in value with each DoT character that releases and her best teams strength. Then Topaz needs to be in the same category because she's the Kafka of follow up attacks and continues to get better with the release of each subsequent FUA character while follow up teams are also some of the best teams in the game, while also being more f2p friendly than the DoT team with Ratio being free. Also, the fact that every other member of the IPC team is in Excellent and above and she's not is just odd when she's effectively the lynch pin of the team. Applying the debuff Ratio needs to function effectively and giving him and Aventurine more dmg, while dealing around the same damage as Ratio by herself. People keep having this idea that when another FUA character releases they'll "be better" and take Topaz's spot in the team. But to me you're almost always better off replacing the main attacker in any follow up attack team and keeping Topaz as she'll be a better sub-dps option because she's designed for that with Numby's debuff. Even with Jade on the horizon with her rumoured buffing of another dps for her follow up mechanic. I believe one of Jade's best teams will be her and Topaz. With Jade buffing Topaz and taking out mobs with her AoE and Topaz debuffing and shredding bosses. Her problem is she came out at a time when Hyper carry was the meta way to play the game so people didn't understand her value immediately. Now she's slept on residually after her release and labelled an easy skip because people saw she didn't make as much use of Ting Yun/Bronya as Seele and didn't see the full value in dual dps till supports like Ruan Mei/Sparkle/Robin came out, and haven't bothered to re-examine Topaz's value since.
14:27 that's because she's considered as a destruction character in the game files witch is enemies tend to focus her a lot, I think they did that cuz in the quest "she" is one of phantilya's pawns
21:00 This is just from my experience but I think Silver Wolf is pretty good with Acheron, she is SP efficient because her Basic Attack still applies debuff, which still helps Acheron's Burst
One very important thing to note about Jingyuan: Lightning Lord deals 15 points of toughness damage per hit, coming out to 150 toughness damage at max stacks. This means that Jingyuan technically has the highest highest toughness damage out of any single attack in the game, beating out Xueyi’s ult by 30 points. All of this means he is a surprisingly powerful break DPS, easily hitting over 30,000 super break damage on my very poorly optimized build.
@@No-Ink it’s not that difficult if you have dance dance dance on trailblazer, or high speed on Jingyuan, especially since he wants 145 speed anyway of you’re speccing him into break effect.
While not one attack since Gallagher's ult come with 100% action advancement into a enhanced basic it might as well be 1 combo which does 150 toughness damage and you can make sure its consistent one enemy in a boss fight with a lot of ads nad his healing gains bonus based on break effect so he's likely already building that stat anyway
Warning wall of text Off hand the break effect utility abilities utilized by HTB would possibly affect the following placements Misha: he has possibly the highest toughness dmg in the game against a single target and he has access to indelible promise Xueyi: due to her ability to ignore toughness bar and the amount of toughness dmg her ult and blast skill does she is probably one of the biggest winners from HTB in terms of 4* units (bonus points for break effect traces) Asta: similar situation to misha however with her skill (bonus points cause speed is massively important to super break teams) Hook/sushang: both for similar reasons hooks being massive toughness dmg on everything she does (her blast has pretty good toughness and her ults is crazy with RM) and Sushang has great toughness dmg and can spd boost herself to boot also her E4 boosting her break effect by 40% helps quite a lot Gallagher: he has the ability to heal, and he has the ability to deal really really good toughness dmg. With a light cone tailored for him and no necessity to build any stats other than BE and spd (and possibly HP/defense so he doesnt get one shot) Things to note with super break teams: indelible promise is top tier for hybrid carries, certain 3* light cones (adversarial, passkey, cogs, fine fruit) are great for those teams since you only need BE and speed however it means you have to compensate for the lower base defensive stats Love the list and love your channel figured id post my thoughts about the super break teams and some things that could be worth considering hope you have a lovely day and i greatly enjoyed your tierlist
Things I liked about this tierlist: The ranking criteria is pretty good and I also can agree with most of the ranking except few of them. Things I find wrong: Silverwolf ranking at niche don't make any sense she is literally what you can call can be usable in every team after release of acheron and HMC her value is at all time higher. Xueyi: She is not average she is a pretty good niche character very strong against quantum weak enemy and now after HMC release I can also put her at excellent if you have her e6. Blade: I personally experienced it that blade does more damage than jingyuan in most of the scenarios so putting blade at descent does not make sense to me. You should put both of them at excellent or both of them at descent tier.
I'm a timely Misha on twitter and yes us Misha mains do in fact exist and I want to talk about him now: Misha's celling is high and somewhat inconsistent but at the same time, you do not need to reach that celling for him to work. He's what I call a sub-DPS in HSR, with the way his kit works you can run him with another DPS and it will work (with copium of course) His burst can break a lot in a single target battle and he gets his burst very easily too, almost Pela's level if you exchange dmg for ER. The only downside to him as of now outside of the power budget of a typical 4* is the fact that you don't have a lot of options in term of LCs for him, other than that, I would say he's very decent and somewhat niche.
You mentioned that Aventurine doesn’t have a debuff but his ultimate apples and “unnerved” debuff that increases the crit damage that enemy receives. He just doesn’t have a taunt debuff. 👀
Went to this video because I just started playing and I’ve always loved fu Xuan so I downloaded the game for her banner and got her and her weapon out of like 60 pulls tops. And this video did not disappoint
22:22 Luka could be potentially be an good option if you don't wanna get Boothill (since i know you guys want Firefly or could be Ruan Mei) which he would get built as Break like minimum of 200% break effect & break alot without needing very much effect hit rate since HMC exist.
I already commented about Serval, but also popping in to say I think Robin is not on the same tier as Sparkle and Ruan Mei. I've done a LOT of testing with her, especially with the new MoC and the only team she feels any good on is team IPC. I had some success with Ruan Mei and Robin together, however HTB is just better with Ruan Mei. Robin's biggest weakness is that normal teams just don't have the actions to get good value from her ult. Without 180+ spd, a normal team has 9 possible actions during Robin's ult. Not every team member will be hitting the enemy with all of those actions, meaning on average you tend to only get 6-7 activations of Robin's ult unless your dps is like Seele. Meanwhile team IPC is pushing 18-20. Leading to a Robin that just off her damage, assuming 15k a hit, who goes from 105k damage to nearly 300k. I want her to be more general than she is, but that's just not shaking out in practice especially with that monstrous 160 energy cost ult. You are right that she will be the best 0 cycle support for basically ever, but I don't think pull value should be assigned for 0 cycle units as 0 cycling is just a very different way to play the game. And can be made "trivial" by just slapping your favorite e6 damage dealer there.
I personally would rate pela above tingyun. Pela is more universal because she works with dual dps compositions. Tingyun is ONLY good in hyper carry scenarios. Also i think that with each and every update the defense of enemies just goes up. This always buffs characters that have a %def down than an %atk or %crit up for your team.
@@austinadvincula4410put pioneer's set on yanqing along with his bis team Yanqing, Black Swan(or any other debuffer), Aventurine, Ruanmei With this build he actually outperforms my Jingliu who I invested more into
March 7th paired with Clara and other follow up characters does give them a use, plus it turns Clara into an actual useful tank for bosses that refuse to stay broken for a turn
I did play starrail and I don't hate it, but I like how meta doesn't matter as much in genshin. If I like a character I can play them and still do decently well if they're low tier
i would argue that Bronya actually works quite well in DoT teams if you don’t have Ruan Mei or Robin. action advance benefits DoT users because it allows them to use their skill or basic again and apply (or trigger, in the case of Kafka) more stacks of DoT, which also gives them more energy to give even more stacks of DoT. if you’re running Sampo and/or Black Swan in DoT, Bronya can make good use of Penacony planar set and Planetary Rendezvous for a DMG percent buff, especially if you’re running HuoHuo as a sustain. but you can also run the Dance Dance Dance light cone to advance all allies, and make up for the Crit DMG buff being useless. so she’s not optimal for DoT but still slots well into certain DoT comps if you don’t have other options
Gui actually works as a great support for Hook! I’m a Hook main, Hook isn’t really designed for Applying burn; though, she does have that incorporated into her kit. She does more damage towards enemies inflicted with burn. I run my Hook on the stagnant waters set with a full fire team; Asta, Guinaifen, Gallagher and Hook. Even though I think my Gui is either E0 or E1, she and Hook have great synergy because Gui can apply like three stacks of burn and Hook can get that delicious boost to her damage :3
Adeventurine is pretty good with the Light cone with Topaz on it that affects enemies that hit you with burn, it gives him decent defense and a it works with Ratio and Acheron.
march should absolutely go in niche. Remembrance cheesing is always a thing, but she can hold her own in MOC/PF depending on the current bonus. Between her freezes and aggro buff on herself, she can draw a lot of enemy fire without needing to skill *every* turn. The follow-ups also count as separate hits for various bonuses like the current MOC one
To me it seems like you have a personal vendetta against certain chars so you just pot them lower than they should be. Seele for example is still a top tier dps, Welt is nowhere near as useless as you painted him here, etc.
Welt is awesome at debuffing and sort of acts like a Preservation by manipulating the turns and stopping enemies from acting. He may not be top top tier, but he’s still awesome
Yeah seele and clara are on average better than Jing Yuan, and sometimes better than Jing Liu. I dont even know why Jing Yuan is higher than Seele and Clara.
No character is a must pull, don't be like YOU HAVE TO PULL, just say "if you care about meta these are the best". You are causing very much so FOMA and helping hoyo with there gatcha predatory marketing.
@@irena4929 It's you coping trying to justify the fact you rolled on year 1 characters which are gonna be useless soon. Must pull don't exist, cause they are just going to get power crept soon anyway.
