The Constitution of the Spartans 

True. They couldn't replenish their losses as a society.

It appears to have been true.

There were also many that couldn't produce "fit" children, so they died without leaving enough heirs. Each marriage would need at least 2 girls and 2 boys in a time when the women and children could die during childbirth, infancy or disease.

@CipiRipi00 add to that the fact they got married very late in life due to all the requirements before being allowed. 30 years of age. After a series of lost battles, how are they ever going to repopulate the society?

Sparta declined as well as Athens, the only reason Athens is such a large city today is due to it being where English and American investors chose to open factories in Greece. Over the Middle Ages Greece in general was in decline and Sparta and Athens were comparable in population. Sure, lack of upward mobility didn’t help, but the ancient world lacked upward mobility in general, Rome and Carthage were “better” than the Greeks, but in general peasants and slaves were always peasants and slaves. Upward mobility as a right was really only conceived in the enlightenment, and countries like the U.S. would be the ones to pioneer upward mobility as a founding principle. It really isn’t as big of a deal as you make it out to be, and the lack of economic mobility generally prevented it from happening enough to detrimentally effect the city state.

What the point of having servile inferiors when you don't rub the fact in their faces from time to time?

@Janjão Jonata Well, they DID enslave an entire population of people. You don't accomplish that by being nice.

@Wyatt Earp just because the ancient greeks thought something was good, doesn't make it so

@Yul Hubbart didnt the Greeks write about the Persians? Maybe Xerxes was actually cool

Sparta only subjugated the tribes that deserved it. Remember, the helots were at first at war with the Spartansand would have treated them just As bad if the Spartans lost. If anything the stability provided by the Spartans allowed the helots stability and growth. placing modem morals on past events is not a good way to understand the past.

Yes that's who remained with Leonidas at Thermopylae.

that’s why it wasn’t war, Leonidas was just “taking a walk”

And by awful, you must mean Zack Snyder.

@Titus Robertson I said it sounded awfully familiar, never said that it was a lot.

@@maximaldinotrap and the bodyguards hade 3 slaves each

I believe we did

Just making it rain on them.

Extremely accurate money shotgun

no you didn't *throws gold bags at you*

XD

how on earth is your comment two days ago when the video was JUST uploaded?

Patreon supporters get early access to videos

Those are no Patreon supporters, They're time travellers

Mr. Doob Magic~

Patreon probably.

genius

NO LONGER IN USE War has changed.

Actually, war has changed. With psychology being introduced and the study of human behavior, smart leaders know using their personnel to torture enemies ends up being counterproductive.

He showed the latter in 'Ceasar In Gaul: REVOLT!' video.

@@JimzAuto Why that?

I'd say the main one

@@lorefox201 I'd say the main factor of the decline of Sparta is their inheritance laws ensuring all their political power conglomerated into their women. Historically, women becoming the primary electorate has directly preceded the downfall of many empires.

@@andrewbingham3304 that was part of it for sure, but at some point the manpower issue became unsolvable

@@andrewbingham3304 The government was made up entirely of men comprised of this upper class of Spartiates (roughly 3% or less of the population by most estimates). If they wanted to reform, they could have done so easily. The didn't want reform, because it benefitted those at the top (both men and women) heavily. Making someone a Spartiate meant they had to be given land, which means land would have to be taken from those in power. The Gerousia mentioned in this video are the epitome of what went wrong with Sparta. Everyone "elected" to that position was part of the super ultra-wealthy (the upper class of the upper class; think the Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffets); the wealthy are not going to pass laws to willingly give up their wealth. Shit, they had a legendary military genius whose expertise defeated Athens in naval warfare, and they wouldn't make that guy a Spartiate. Sparta was undone by greedy, indolent rich people.

@@michealwilliams472 And who were the rich people? The women who profited from the deaths of the men. All men had to fight and it was unlikely to outlive your wife, or even get to have a wife to be honest. Inherited money was conglomerated into a select few women who had tremendous political power even if they didn't hold office.

Same goes for the Anglo Saxons!

@@samuelskogqvist5565 based

@@samuelskogqvist5565 Im not denying this, but wheres the evidence?

@@salvatore5553 well, women in Sparta had significantly more sway than most of the ancient world was willing to give. Philosophers who visited even commented on that fact. While in Rome yes the women held some sway, but it was basically the tug your husband and hope to get your way, evidence is the many divorces political leaders had in very short succession.

And first in the territory of another civilization…

lol

oh shit

Came here to say that too.

Accidentally

That happens in every video they make...

the men of rome did model themselves after greek ideals. the roman republic began in 509 BC, not long before greeces golden age in the 400s

Yep just constantly expanded citizenship

The roman system is much more complex and much more flexible.

The Ephors specifically seem like the Censors of the Roman Republic in that they could formally bring charges against the King. One of the duties of the Roman Censors was to be in charge of supervising public morality.

In Greek Gerousia(Γερουσία) literally means Senate

Me too, they are more complex than the general knowledge

I always assumed that the just went around killing people.

I think what mosr fascinating to me is the importance they put in defense, which at first thought we think of thier military, but often we forget the importance they put on diplomacy and i find thier rhetoric aspect as most fascinating.

@@davidperrier6149 They were, of the Doric branch. Back then there were different branches of greeks, the Athenians were Attic for example, whereas Crete and Sparta was Doric. The locals were acheans maybe, thus the Doric spartans came and conquered them, but they were just as greek. Only different dialect.

You’re fooling yourself. We’re living in a dictatorship. A self perpetuating autocracy, in which the working classes... oh, wait. Wrong video....

I love it, it's very simple and oddly soothing and not too distracting. Brilliant format.

Ugh just say nothing

@@alkeenan7906 wtf

​@@Robotomy101 One common thread with narcissists aside from other personality types I am aware of, is their visceral hatred for anyone else being praised. They are the ones who take competition too seriously in sports, fight dirty, etc. alkeenan7906 sees an elegant animation (simple, but effective) and equates it to overall crudity and categorical simplicity, something his "genius" and "superiority" could so easily outstrip, he has a right to be offended! (in his mind) Funny enough, the narcissist routinely fails to prove their imaginary abilities; if he tried to make even such a "crude" animation, he would quickly find it is more difficult than he thought, and devolve into an egotistical meltdown where he tells himself some excuse to not complete his "much more awesomer and worthy of praise than Historia Civilis" animation.

r/NotKenM

Ooh... you got me there

What do you think the average score was?

qa

But in 5E, low agility is irrelevant if you're wearing heavy armor.

@@arentak2773 Stop using 5e.

@@sunset-inn As someone who legitimately prefers a number of other systems... ain't nothing wrong with using 5e. It's pretty good, actually. :D (I really like how they handle their conditions, for D&D.)

@@Tacticslion Anything is better than 4e.

@@sunset-inn Weeeeeeelllllll... ... ... ... I've actually played 4e, and have even loved it, but it's a VERY mixed bag. I continue to find things I admire in 4e as a system that I wish I could import to others that just... doesn't work in the other systems (and only sometimes works in its own). "Wow! This is SUCH a good idea! Too bad it sucks!" 4e is in many ways a work of brilliance both hampered by and enhanced by the fact that it's Dungeons & Dragons. It's a solid combat simulator with really great mechanical ideas, that serve much better in a computational system than in Pencil and Paper (with more situational bonuses and actions than anything 3.X ever dreamed of, even with all its myriad of bonuses) and it very unfortunately tried to hammer the very square D&D pegs into a very round 4e hole. And round is a great shape! ... but it's not really the shape of D&D. ... ... ... ... well, okay, guess, given the shape of the Great Wheel, it *is* actually a circle... but you all know what I mean! XD The problems with 4e D&D are actually rather analogous to 3.0 Psionics: absolute genius and fascinating construction and absolute dumpster fire *at the same time*. (3.5 Psionics, however, is a work of untarnished perfection and I will not hear anything against it! ... mostly because this is written text, not out loud. And also because nobody talks about the Complete Psionics book.) Comparatively, though, without question, 5e manages to grasp much of the feel and understanding of D&D that was (sometimes intentionally and sometimes incidentally and sometimes mistakenly) abandoned by 4e in its various decisions.

Thanks for enriching the knowledge even further. Now it all makes sense.

I like the fact that the number of likes on the comment has been (deliberately?) kept at 69 XD. I salute all the people who kept it that way

@@johnryanobejero1868 maybe back to the future fans are keeping it at 88 atm lol.

Please learn to understand historical events. The defeat by the Thebans was not the cause of the decline. The decline was the cause of the defeat. It is reported, I do not remember any more by whom, that the day previous to the battle a Spartan detachment of seven hoplites raped a local girl, can you imagine that? Spartans raped women? unheard of. It is also reported that many Spartan soldiers went to the battle drunk. Both things unheard of, for 500 years. By the way, because your soul can not apparently bear to know people (what about other animals?) in slavery. After a bloody war of 30 years the Spartans were victorious and made the Messenians slaves, called Heilots. Can you please tell me what would the Messenians have done with the Spartans if they, themselves, the Messenians, were victorious?? To paraphrase a German saying: Democracy has short legs. It does not bring you very far.

I just wish Athena and others did better in wiping this despicable Spartan-nazi state much sooner!

Lady dimitrescue??

Lmfaooooooo

And that's why it won't be

@@johnnottellingyou2402 I mean youre right but still :(

Yuck

Thomas Vrielink this made me laugh xD

Thomas Vrielink I like it.

Marcus Tullius Cicero IMPOSTER!

Thomas Vrielink AND XENOPHON??? AAHHHHHH BURN IT WITH FIREEEEEEEEEE THE WORLD WILL END *WHAT SHALL WE EVER DO?!!!!*

The world falls because Cicero was not made a square. ;-;

Probably because the Spartans were aware that the Ephors could act like corrupt little mother-effers with too much power.

*Mother Ephors

BOOOOOOO puns are never okay this is bad you should feel bad

Nice metephor.

Bad puns are the best puns.

so easy to binge

Wyatt Earp And then he spewed a bunch of sexist nonsense about women, so no he didn’t have a reason for some of who he hated

Aquila Romana I find both of you to be sad examples of...well, I suppose putting a name to it is hard. I find this double standard to be funny, not only are you two most likely men yourselves, but it’s funny how we can call out historic racism and tyrants with no issue, but OH NO, GOD FORBID WE BRING UP SEXISM! SJW REEEEEEEE!!! Do you two see how silly you sound?

Aquila Romana It’s okay to call out the bad traits about otherwise good things as well. I think many of his teachings were great, but if you truly liked Aristotle, you wouldn’t be blind to his faults

@@caiawlodarski5339 why of course, your right. Still, it hurts to thik that even som eof our most influential figures would stillf all victim to these societal flaws,

@Aquila Romana you’re right about the difference in morality bit. Gender equality in of itself is not Marxist, however.

Nowhere near to the degeneracy of today lmao

HA!

@@boyikr We're headed that way though it seems. Rinse, repeat.

I have to wonder how much of that was sexism though. I mean, this is *ancient Greece* after all, and Aristotle himself was quite sexist.

maybe, or maybe he was right. We'll never know the truth of the matter all we can do is project our own thoughts/feelings onto him.

At once.

+klovervibe I'd watch all of them in one pop if that happened! If only-

It hasn't

Oh, and the mention of Xenophon makes me think a video of the Anabasis would be incredible.

Sparta was not young society.

​@@innosantothe further back in time you go, the younger our species and societies were.

hear hear!

And we aren't Jebaited

Bert Karlsson skara för alltid

oh for fucks sake more bots

Not a time that I have doubted the oracle

ROME HAS CONQUERED!

*Rektangle

+Jason Martin Legion Wreaktile

haha they could be so detached about their sons/husbands either kicking ass or dying because at least they had great compensation

Yep. Women sent their sons off to die in wars of conquest to enrich these mothers....the "gentle sex" LOL. Too many men are waking up to the modern version of this scam. The West under feminism, like Sparta under the Heiresses are ripe for the pickings by stronger foreign powers who don't bow and scrape before their spoiled rich women..

@Yul Hubbart the military and the suffragettes collaborated on the "white feather" campaign. The military because they wanted more cannon fodder for their imperial war, and the suffragettes because they thought men should earn their right to vote through military service, and argued women could earn the right to vote through equivalent "war work"--a promise suffragettes renegged on as soon as men extended voting rights to women. It's the usual story, feminists saying one thing ("equality") and doing the opposite (female privilege)

Mark Cullenane it is reality that with the shield or dead on it . That was the Spartan law as they did not leave dead behind .

@@ioannisgordios12 It was also Spartan law that, if you retreated from battle, you would have to live your life as a "trembler." Get half your beard shaved, cloak torn, and be out from the protection of the law, so any Spartan could assault you without penalty if they felt like it. (If you fought back, of course, that would make you a criminal as well as a trembler.) So the real options were "with your shield, or on it, or come back to a life of nothing but shame to yourself and your family."

How about the Ephors on the way to the oracles? I was wondering whether the animation was accurate.

War incoming

I was looking for this haha

Hssss hsssss

Are you proud of yourself? Because you should be this is punny as hell and I love it

Bahahaha 😂🤣😂😆

Perfect joke

And poets and musicians... Of war. 😵⚔😵

:,

@@thedarkmaster4747 and Χιλών a philosopher

And water is wet.

Boot camp includes various academic courses you of course realize?

Gricken same lol

YES! :D

It was more than that, they tried to be fair to Spartans as well.

Sounds familiar

This is extreme similar to our army

Service guarantees citizenship! Enlist today!

Romullus Best comment so far

That didn't matter to much in ancient sparta. Think about it. Wemen out numbered men by alot, and every guy was a demi hercules.

Teens > cougars.

@Dragon Dimosthenis Indeed, 'cause it was legal lmao

I thought he said the ephors were older, at least 45 years old

its lit

hahaha

WeTube knock it off

I already ate mine :3

Literally eating pizza as I watch this.

I also had to get some snacks

Divay Pratap I had a burger..

Divay Pratap I got ice cream

lmfao

unlucky for them the future is a civilization of memes, cuss words, drunk dudes and cool Assassins Creed recreations of Greece

I lost it every time he said effors

I have to say randomly coming across this today, we're playing a solo game situated in Sparta. The PCs have made the same joke more than once. (And the Ephors, despite their name, aren't even the actual villains or antagonists.)

Since I don't have a sense of humor: The Ancient Greek word was ἔφοροι. Ancient Greek also had a pitch accent instead of a stress accent. Phi was pronounced as an aspirated p, not as an fricative /f/. It had a trill r. So a close approximation of the correct pronunciation for English speakers would be "Eh? Poe Roy" while rolling the r. If you want to use the English plural, it would be "Eh? Pours."

sverebebe +

Mee toooooo! Hugy wuggy fwend wets aww be happy woo watching vee histowia civiwiss! Nah - That was just weird

I wish he had said "getting their hands greasy" so badly lol

I didnt get why u liked this at 1st haha. Just as i was about to close i realised how funnny that was! 😂 1 minute im reading hard complex things the next i cant wrap my mind around seasonal time change ☺🙄✌

"How Italians were born"

Well... That's F.or U.nlawful C.arnal K.nowledge now isn't it?

😁

Ephed right in the A

I guess it's called impeachment.

@@vertik7I think you mean "impephment"

I smiled greatly inside 😋

Ben Sama well. That’s one down.

If they are not spartans, then why mention them? ;)

Neither were the Helots :P and most of the Perioikoi were Laconians unlike the Helots who mainly hailed from Messenia.

The word "Spartan"itself is misleading. If you're referencing the ruling citizen warrior class that formed part of the Spartan army (the homoioi), then what you mean is Spartiates, not Spartans. Spartans would be anyone living in the city of Sparta. The warriors, true citizens that take part in the agoge training and the common meals are called Spartiates.

TheAtmosfear7, that's a pretty silly distinction, because it only exists in the English language. I can assure you that in Greek "Spartiates" *means* Spartans. I suspect that if they wanted to refer to the entire non-slave population ("homoioi" aka _peers_ or not) they would use the term Lacedaemonians.

I dunno, complete mobilization sounds like a very war-efficient strategy.

Well the whole point of mobilizing only men is to keep the reproduction levels stable. In theory this means that even after 90% of men are dead, since only men died the breeders can still replace those fallen men. Sparta also had welfare system so single mothers did not need to worry too much. Something is obviously faulty with this system. Obviously having women as breeders does not work out as good. Not accepting foreigners as Spartans makes sense since they are basically nazis who think of themselves as ubermensch and don't accept immigrants. In their worldview accepting a nonspartan as spartan is worst than losing a war.

Because it was not really complete. Most of the population in the Peloponese were Helots who did not receive formal military training. They were so conservative that they brough themselves into irrelevance

+utvara1 oh boy the nazi argument again... how lazy and ignorant

Why? Sparta is an ideal nazi state, it is fully nationalist (even less accepting to non-natives than nazis) and fully socialist, both states were militarist, had slave labor and saw themselves as master race, they both relied on palingenesis or a myth, one of aryan descent other of heracles descent, both were police states and both were totalitarian and even controlled sex lives of their citizens, the only lazy and ignorant and let me add stupid for my higher criteria here is you.

My dude ive been here for at least a year, all the content is amazing welcome to the club 🤘

Jetsom Yass, more ceasar stuff!

Very underrated comment.

Lacking in visual stimulation?? There's squares and rectangles in DIFFERENT COLORS all over the place!

To be honest, the graphics is what I love most about it.

There's also before the Battle of Leuctra when their pure blood spartans dropped down toonly 1000 men. It shows the weakness of a purely hereditary warrior state's ability to recoup after huge losses unlike the Romans after Cannea It seems however, from events such as Platea that arming massive number of their Helot's was possible

Lacking visual stimulation? Welcome to the land of squares and rectangles!!

Did you stay for Ephors and Gerousia?

Now he as a big belly

GYM

...

Lol

spartan warriors were still elite. but for a very,very short amount of time

+Turgon92 - Spartans were the best infantry out there for a very long time. 3 to 5 centuries, depending how you count. As far as I know, they were considered to be elite infantry for as long as they existed. Just the numbers dwindled, but the quality supposedly remained.

Athens used to have an elite homosexual legion called the Sacred Band, some people said it's the best greek unit in their time.

Southern White-Faced Owl Thebans not Athenians.

BlackDeathViral03 It's because of strategy, not because they were better soldiers. Example: Battle of Charrae, roman's with 30.000 legionnaires and in total 50.000 lost against 10.000 parthians. It's all about strategy bud.

nope they lost the land and the laws were not able to be applied anymore and 1 day after the defeat and the loss of the territory the spartan civilization ended the men stoped doing military excises but spent all day long getting drunk they did not try to reform the society to accommodate the new reality they just gave up

I imagined that they'd rather die than change themselves into something they were clearly not

Messenger Charles would you like them to stand up and get angry again?

Messenger Charles I’m not disagreeing. But sadly I believe it’s far to late. The majority would gladly have themselves erased and replaced.

So despite the fact that many spartan women were rich as a result of the spartsn system and it failed, what that say about women?

Seems to me it would involve a lot of people riding horses and shouting.

The quick Romanization of Western Europe happend through depopulation and mass enslavement followed by deportation to Italy of all the cities in Gaul and Hispania. The very rural areas were never Romanized. They only became Latin-speaking in the early middle ages when people from the cities moved into the countryside and the Germanic (but linguistically latinized) conquerors started to set up the feudal system.

That’s why there was plenty of room for corruption in tax collecting for most of human history, and why the bigger an empire was, the more corrupt it tended to be. Some empires got around this by having more decentralized power structures like the Mongol Empire or many of the iterations of the Persian Empire. While this can make an empire durable, it also tends to hurt cohesiveness and can lead to civil war or separatism.

"Cities across Roman territory/the republic/the empire"

Matthew Cocks Additionally, this challenge in tax collection and law enforcement is why large empires like the Romans, Persians, and Chinese are notable. Most kingdoms throughout history were pretty small since it is hard to administer large areas and lots of people without everything falling apart as happened to, for example, Alexander the Great’s empire.

Ironically, they sided with the Persians several times against other Greek cities. They also chickened in Marathon and Athens had to defeat Persia all alone.

they didnt chickened the marathon they arrived some time after the battle because their armor was super heavy consider them a tiger corp but with 1/10 of its speed :P

siegward of catarina the Spartans were very superstitious and they were advised to march in aid of Athens on the next full moon by the oracles.

triglos that sounds like an excuse Walder Frey would tell when he didn't arrive in time for the battle of the trident

Hamods LOL

Top tier comment

fuck off, idiot :)

greeks are actually very hard workers they just dodge paying taxes as hard as possible

@@WOGBOY topper tier comment

fuck you. i work for 30 years and i have nothing. all greeks are working hard and the fucking banks and the EU take our blood for the other countries to live at our expence

Elonkelon don't you just love nepotism?

Spartan inheritance laws = feminist's fantasy?

Vosloff Depend on how law is enacted, and what the law is?

fucking dinasty ck II BS....

yeah but it wasn't equality, Woman held the majority of economic power while men had the majority of constitutional power. Either side could influence the other, but this is by no means equality.

That's an inaccurate way to describe it. Attic was just a form of Ionian, and Mycenaean was the an older form of Greek.

all the videos about Roman political institutions are about Roman constitution

Mos Maiorum?

Some of it was written it was called The Twelve Tables