The Council of Europe (Not the EU): Europe's Most Confusing Grouping - TLDR News 

Splitters!

@Blaz Blaz I'm sure that sounded witty in your head.

Yeah, sounds British to me. Instead of trying to understand things you rather make fun of it and complain afterwards that you didn't understand.

Eurovision.. Isn't apart of anything to do with the EU even though let's be honest Eurovision is very much political. Hard to argue it isn't something within the EU at this point.

Oh no, gay rights and equality! 😱

@@weetikissa I never said it was a bad thing

Yep, because things like LGBT rights, and freedom of religion, are actually UNAVOIDABLE with a Rule of Law that weights rights against rights, not opinions or beleifs. What waaaay too many people don't seem to get is that our democracies aren't the tyranny of a majority. When you protests against LGBT rights, you are actually protesting against the Rule of Law and asking to install the Rule of God (in Europe, Christian Sharia), destroying freedom of religion along the way. Sad part being that, at least in my country, you learn that in high school yet we still have lots of morons that don't even understand the very basis of our democracies. Not to mention the fact those people don't even seem to have understood their religion... Like the "cast a stone if you have never sinned" Jesus Bible story. Even Jesus didn't throw one. It is only up to God to judge ANYONE as to their sins, certainly not you, a sinner - as all humans are. Christianity 101. While I can understand those political movements in East European countries where democracies are still relatively young, frail and all generations aren't educated to things like the Rule of Law I really do not in Western countries with good education until high school for everyone and generally proper religious education too. We should be the example, and generally thanksfully are nowadays, not help stir that effing pot.

@@MrTomtomtest There is some more nuance there I think. From Christians lobbying for marriage privatization (marriage would be something a bar or church could do, each with their own rules and limitations, but the state wouldn't care either way) to Christians lobbying that they should be allowed not to make a product which supports believes that are antithetical to their believes. Both those are often enough presented as 'protests against LGBT rights', but both are within the framework of the law and argue for either changes to the law or specific interpretations of the law. And at the end of the day we should never forget that 'rights' are also 'just' believes. 'Human rights' are 'just' the continuation of the 'modern' christian 'natural rights' concept, but where an attempt was made to find a common ground between a couple more people. Christians believe that the human rights flow from how God created the world, humanists believe that human rights are something that is intrinsically human and in the same way a whole group has different grounds they base themselves on, but we were able to find some common grounds. And to circle back to LGBT, most Christians will take the position that 'gay relations are morally wrong' whilst they will also take the position 'it should be legally safe to be gay'. The idea that both those things should be possible is I believe the basis of a healthy western democracy, but - despite considering myself a bit of a SJW - I feel like we have reached a point where that is becoming less and less true. I feel like we're moving further and further away from the idea that human rights and the law give us a framework how to interact with each other whilst minimally interfering with each other. Anyway, enough ranting, got to get back to work.

WRONG! The Council of Europe is an INTERNATIONAL not a supranational entity. That is why it is highly ineffective and can easily be blocked by a single member... That is why Russia, Turkey, Belarus or the UK LOVE the CoE so much.

9:08

A diagram helps. But i do wonder why Europe has such a hard time naming their organizations.

Don’t forget also about the Council of the European Union mate 😅😅😅😂😂😂 Nobody can convince us that this ”confusion” isn’t deliberate and aiming at the integration of every country possible to the eu… eastern countries as well, oh and the big one too, yes, Russia 😅😂

@Alistair Bolden There, there. Keep taking the paranoia medication.

@Alistair Bolden I said nothing of the sort. There's a big difference between being the most influential member of an organisation and being a power grabber. The fact that the Germans happen to be the most influential members of the EU is down to a number of reasons 1) since the end of WW2, they've worked bloody hard 2) they've got continuity of government following decent policies and 3) they've concentrated on building their economy rather than pursuing outdated imperial notions. If other members are caught in debt traps, it's because of their own issues rather than because of Germany. Go and look at your own shortcomings before you blame Germany for your issues.

@Alistair Bolden It's funny that so many people only see ill in the prosperity of another. It's akin to some kind of zero sum algorithm where a win on the part of another automatically means a loss for them. As I said, keep on taking the medication for your paranoia.

@Alistair Bolden "There is a very good chance that the EU will fall within the next 10 years, and the parties in Germany currently are only one center right and one far right." People have been saying the same about the EU since it was founded as the ECSC. Strangely enough, it hasn't failed after 68 years. Let's see if it does fall before you start talking about a resulting government by the far right.

@Alistair Bolden Shall we start with basic grammar and punctuation? "Germanies puppet states " - it's actually "Germany's puppet states" and it's not "Grease", it's "Greece". Regarding Mme Le Pen, it's quite possible that she will, indeed, gain power. And then she'll be exposed as the buffoon that she truly is, just as Trump, Johnson and various other populists have been exposed before her. In any case, following the spectacle of Brexit, she and the Front National as well as various other right-wing parties in Europe have belatedly discovered the benefits of the EU and have rowed back on their Euroscepticism. It seems that the Brexit cloud has a silver lining after all.

Considering there's 3 separate bodies called the Council of Europe, European Council, and Council of the European Union, you can't really blame him for getting them confused

Not really.

Elect a clown, expect a circus

If it's a circus then I'd like my money back because I am having a terrible time over here

@eres well, it's a good circus for people outside of the USA tho xd

@@paulwalsh6395 someone pointed out once that 'policing Portadown [very poor godforsaken Northern Ireland district] has cost one billion pounds so far, enough to give each resident a hundred thousand pounds each instead' (numbers made up, but it was enough in those days for each of them to buy a good house)(or leave for good, as most would have because it's got no jobs, is grim, violent etc) so i guess it could be worse

Not quite correct, sovereign courts act as a part of the authorities of CoE member states, so if the court decides "meh, whatever", then there may be (and well be) sanctions for not implementing ECtHR decision from the Council of Europe itself. But, again, no one can actually make courts implement new rulings in the UK, since it has very different legal system to most of European countries.

@@danielvavilov2157 Interesting so what are the sanctions they could impose and have they ever done so?

ward

Ain't like we can trust the government on this one

Ward

Most of Europe is a joke. They're not in any real danger so their politicians can say whatever they want and constantly pat themselves on the back. They really are a narcissistic and insufferable bunch. Especially Western Europe.

Yes I think It takes time for society's to become liberal, humanitarian and ethical. One of the biggest problems in human progression is tradition. A lot of traditions are archaïc but at the same time make a culture what it is. Is it bad to have conservative traditions? Not really it all depends on the morality of the subject and the personal view. what is right or what is wrong is different for everybody but I think we can all agree that generally harming somebody else physically or mentally is a morally bad. Putting yourself above someone else is mentally a bad thing to do and I know indian society does that a lot with its castes system and cronyism/nepotism. I think that is one of the biggest hurdles for India to overcome to give everyone in the country at least a chance on a good life.

Took me a while to figure it out... those are the citations. If you expand the description, you can view the "footnotes".

It has a court you can go to if your country has failed to protect your human rights. If you win in that court, you will get damages and the country who lost will have to promise to change their laws. While they can technically refuse to, refusing to abide with the cours decision will have dire diplomatic consequences. EU members have, as a part of being mebers of the EU, promised to follow the Council of Europe's charter of Human Rights, so the EU could punish them as well, if they do not abide. The EU likes what they do, and their human rights, so they flat out promise to follow the Court of the Council of Europe as well as all it's precedenses. Russia pretty much says nah and ignores a lot of it. It can, because membership of the Council of Europe is bilateral, rather than supranational. EU can force countries to do things, the Council of Europe can only implore them.

@@martinfalkjohansson5204 you actually explained better than the video...which is kinda sad though

@@justanotheremptychannel2472 Thanks! It's sadly very common to have no idea what part is what, and even politicians on a local level in Sweden confuse them during EU elections. The ECHR has to do human rights in any country that has ratified it. The EU is a trade union with a common market, that requires it's members to follow human rights :).

Ain't like gay rights are their top concerns

I think the distinction you are missing is discrimination involves deeds or actions (or lack of actions?), rather then expression which is more about words.

@@matthewrye3156 seems better than my version of "it's null if you are disregarding human rights", thanks for enriching my thoughts

That's because it isn't associated with the EU or the Council of Europe.

I like the name EUROPEAN UNION BETTER than U.S.E .Which sounds bland and American.

@@ryanhuntrajput474 To my mind, it is the substance of what might be achieved rather than what it might be called or might call itself which is important. This piece might be a bit of an eye-opener to many though probably not to many readers on RU-vid The movement towards European Union is a fact of history and unavoidable in the future as isa about to be emphasised to us.

?

Soo, gender equality isn't a good thing? Is that what you are saying?

@@letheas6175 you clearly aren't a native english-speaker lmao

​@@justanotheremptychannel2472 Wow, your comment adds so much to this discussion! You're so smart. ''lmao''

@@letheas6175 LMFAO there isn't a discussion, that's the whole point of your beginner-level English being funny

That's a great idea, especially considering the main purpose is to promote democratic standards and mediate EU-Russian relations, I think including Central Asian and other states in a reformed "Eurasian Council" would be beneficial. The EU enforced the Council of Europe's practices domestically already anyways. It could also act as a platform for EU-EAEU dialogue, which to date has yet to materialize.

Or how about the court of Europe? That would be less confusing and more spot on

Istanbul and Moscow are clearly in Europe...

@@justanotheremptychannel2472 not Ankara and Siberia :)

@@god6384 How much % of Russians live in Siberia? Ankara Geographically, not; Historically it was connected by the Greeks so pretty much since European culture is descended of Roman culture that was civilized by Greek culture

Not really Russia and Turkey mostly abide by The councils rules. Most of the bad things they do dont fall under the councils rules.

@@command_unit7792 Then the council rules aren't sufficient. Which reduces credibility of council. My point still stands.

Xamufam 🤣

"If you're able to somehow work around the discrimination, why fight back?" Because if we do that, the bigots will never stop. He isn't suing to get the stupid cake, he's suing to get legal recognition and precedent that what they did was discriminatory.

Heads Full Of Eyeballs can’t work out if you’re being sarcastic or not, so apologies if we don’t agree on this one! But surely it is better to ensure that people don’t get to promote their bigoted and backwards views, so it is good to challenge, no?

@@mattgreek1066 No worries! Yeah, we agree, hence the quotation marks around that first sentence :p

@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs 👍🏽😁

Right, but more like EU Extra Extra Lite

SpangeBab thx

Russia is member so not

@@Pierce1337 It is interesting question. Do non-discrimination rights go over rights of religion? If the makers of the cake had been muslims, would they still be required by law to make cakes for gay marriages? How well do you think that would go? If christians (or any religion, where sexual orientation has some meaning) says they do not want to make such a cake, will they be forced by law? Same thing can happen with many areas of society, though. When does discrimination rights overrule religion rights? If a person wants a car painter to paint his car with big rainbow colours, should be painter be able to decline? etc. For example, religon does NOT give bus driver the rights to choose who to let in. Religion DOES give rights to decide if gay marriage is accepted in that religion, though. Religion also seems to give rights to maim young children and do other stuff that is not accepted in general. Religion can stop two people marrying to each other, regardless of sex. In the cake case, I think the supreme court ruling was good. The cake makers decided not to make the cake, because of what the cake represents. They would have declined, regardless if the person ordering it would had been woman, man, straight, gay, black, white or an alien from outer space. If they had declined because of the person who ordered it, THAT would be discrimination. As far as I personally understand, any makers/seller/company owner can decide, what they will do and what they will not do. Nobody can (or at least should not be able to) force a company to produce anything that the company does not want to make. If someone asks a sticker company to make big swastika stickers, I assume the company can say no, regardless of the sexual orientation of the person asking?

​@@Dthamilaye There has to be a clear separation between businesses and individuals. It is called human rights, not company's rights. I do not agree with the supreme court's ruling. A company's right to refuse an order should not be based on religion or other ideologies.

@@Dthamilaye you can not marry but you can't be against people marrying, freedom of marriage and association is one of their key values, freedom of thought doesn't extent to discrimination and prejudice

@@justanotheremptychannel2472 But the baker in question wasn't necessarily against people marrying, only his being required to participate in the ceremony by baking a cake.

@@mgenovski But does a gay couple have a right to a cake from a baker whose religious beliefs prevent him from baking it? They could easily have gotten a cake from another baker. This doesn't seem to be a civil rights issue, as much as an attempt to use the force of law to punish religious opinions, and virtue signal.

That was the perspective of total nuclear war

Ehhhhh. I rather doubt it.

So the council of Europe should change their flag and name because the EU copied them?

@@jubmelahtes well it seems a bit unfair since the coucil had it first, but i dont think that anyone could deny that the EU is thevmost important institution

@@jubmelahtes Actually reading the comment you're answering to doesn't hurt, you know. The main point, for me, is reforming the European institutions into something efficient, something they are not at present. Changing names, flags, etc. could certainly be part of the process, thus avoiding confusion among the citizens. I wouldn't make a derby between them about which one has the right to retain the flag, though. That is a contest I'm hardly interested in.

@@Cheesblenders4all "dont think that anyone could deny that the EU is thevmost important institution" - yeah the EU is only missing two of the three nuclear superpowers and UNSC permanent members that the CoE has, definately more important. Think you're gonna need a better definition of "important" before trying to pull the EU's misinformation game.

@@streaky81 the CoE pretty much only deals with human rights questions, while the EU deals with more or less everything that has the economy, which is pretty much everything. Also cooperation between countries in the EU is a lot more substantial than cooperation between countries in the CoE. "more countries=more important" is a pretty shallow way of looking at it. if that was the only thing that mattered you could argue that FIFA is more important that both both the EU and the CoE since it has more members

I think you shouldn't design cakes if you can't stop yourself from discriminating against others.

I agree that someone shouldn't be punished for refusing to bake a cake with a political message. However, I don't think that supporting gay marriage should be considered a political message. It's just love man.

@@ws4857 They refused to make a gay marriage cake for a gay man, that's discrimination.

@@Nikolaj11 He's trying to deflect. It's like the owner of the petrol station saying he's "refusing to fill up the car" because a "bumper sticker says Trump 2020". Nothing to do with the owner of course, lol It's a deflection tactic, so that bigots feel better about their own bigotry.

@@ralphbernhard1757 I know, that's why I repeated the basis of the reasoning, I find it easiest to deflect deflections by refusing to argue their dumb claim, but thanks for the clarification regardless. :)

human rights court of the Council of Europe is the highest authority by default

Well, wasn't freedom of marriage and association one of the key elements? As far as I know freedom of conscience doesn't extent to discrimination and prejudice

@Fresh Turkey You are free to not marry a gay, you are not free to be against a gay marrying

@Fresh Turkey refusing to make a cake for interracial marriage is racism, you can say what you want but you can't act against human rights (refuse to do service based prejudice)

@Fresh Turkey if he doesn't wishes to make cakes he shouldn't have a bakery, also read it again, and slowly so your brain can process the phrases instead of just words individually

@Fresh Turkey so a Nazi can refuse to make a Bar Mitzva decorations? A racist can refuse to make a commemoration cake for blacks? You are free to have opinions but not to discriminate people

Really? Have you seen the flags of Poland and Indonesia? And the old Libyan one was just one shade of green...

@@Wasserfeld. They are good and have a deep symbolism, unlike EU flag. Bicolors and tricolors are definetly the best

So ? Churchill doesnt decide Anything im british and i hate brexit, most of them are old stupid nationalistic people

The EU should change its symbols...The Council of Europe adopted them first...

Care to explain why the Council of Europe is the one that should change it's original name flag and anthem instead of the EU which copied it?

Exactly. It is a case of "Agree with me or else", which is evil. They could have just gotten their money back and gone to another baker. Although for me, I oppose the current institution of legal marriage itself, gay or straight. So many of the intricacies of the debate do not apply to my actual position.

If it was an cake for interracial marriage they would be charged for racism, when you are against freedom you have to accept you are wrong to the world around you.

@@justanotheremptychannel2472 What about freedom not to bake cakes if you don't want to?

@@si91 if you don't want to find another job

@@justanotheremptychannel2472 But this is a case of a business owner