The Cunning Rogue vs the Dexterity Rogue - Dragon Age Origins 

Wait. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

@@iordanchis2437 For weapons yes, for bonuses he's got it right. So you re-spec them

This game will never die!

Hey am here for it, I know I'll probably start another playthrough soon. So might as well get some tips.

Glorious

on what difficulty?

And, it used like. 1 health potion. Cunning was chugging them.

Pretty much why tanks build Dex over Con in Origins.

Dual-wielding warrior dps/tank maxing out dex followed by 48 strength wearing the heaviest of armour is the way to go.

no backstabs for warrior tho

Cunning is still good because stealing is very good in dragon age orgins

​@@Vicusor22you don't even need backstab because wielding two bigger swords more than makes up for it.

Thanks! :)

Nope, Swift Salve and Momentum works great together. Brings you to the fasters attack speed, exactly. What does not work is Haste and Momentum. There, you have speed "overflow". Yes, you can stack magic up to 100% to be completely immune to it. :)

You can see more details in my Master Assassin Trilogy build. :)

That is certainly true. You get attack bonus after dex, but get nothing after cunning. However, the Cunning Rogue is not supposed to have good attack, because it's supposed to attack from the back, not the front, where attack does not matter. The idea behind them is to perform backstabs and use Stealth to get behind targets undetected. The reason I miss, is because I go against Cauthrien solo. In an ideal situation, I would have a tank to draw aggro, and my rogue would be able to non-stop backstab Cauthrien. Coup de Grace certainly helps, since I can backstab enemies after I stun them, but that is tricky against Elite Bosses because on Nightmare they are stunned for an extremely short duration. So I would say, you can end up having more damage as a solo Dex Rogue because you are less likely to miss and you have no way of making them not focus on you, but if you have a proper tank that does its job, then the Cunning Rogue can truly eclipse the Dex rogue in terms of pure dps. This is why I managed to kill the High Dragon much faster with the Cunning Rogue - since it is easy to re-position and backstab the dragon because of its size. :)

@@AKisHerceg Yeah, cun rogues should definitely be flanking enemies whenever possible, which grants them a +20 bonus to attack score, but backstabs are not auto hits, you can (and WILL, in my experience) still miss sometimes. High dragons are not difficult to hit, so if you have a tank drawing aggro, cun rogues will definitely performe better there. But, again, against enemies with high defense score, or those who can't be flanked at all, it's not so clear who has the upper hand. I'm doing a new run with a dw warrior now, a class I've never explored much before. Just finished Ostagar, so far I'm very pleasantly surprised, they seem much more powerful than rogue (no surprise there, rogues are pretty weak until they get lethality and coup de grace), let's see how he will hold on further on!

@@thiagorodrigues8179 They are not supposed to be auto hits, but almost nothing has 122 defense in the game, which is how much attack you have with a Cunning rogue like mine while flanking(by picking Duelist instead of Assassin it's 132, but you deal less flanking damage of course). For example the two non-dragon Elite Bosses, Cauthrien and Gaxkang has 101(C) and 80(G) defense. Yeah, I have built many dual-wield warriors and they are always a blast to play. Recently I made a video about a dual-wield Dagger-Zerker. Because of the familiar dex stacking, it's amazing how much damage it deals, while also being an excellent tank(on this front it definitely outshines the double sword/axe/mace warrior). Plus he does not need to worry about flanking or missing stamina. One of my favorite Tank/Damager.

That would be my opinion as well. Dexterity is certainly better for crowds, while Cunning is the ultimate boss killer.

Spot on

I adore it! Especially since you can get two identical The Veshialle axe from the party camp(it resets after the first visit, so if you have the money, you can have two from the beginning of the game). They look great together and they are the best axes in the game. I had an amazing run with my dual-wield alchemist. I melted everything in my way with those bad boys. In fact I plan to make a dual weapon Berserker build with them for this channel. :)

How did you get money for the Vashaille the first time you visited camp?? :o

@@charleskonz3273 If you complete the Achievement Grim Reaper(which is basically killing the Harverster on Nightmare in the Golems of Amgarrak dlc), you will be rewarded with the Reaper's Cudgel with every new character you create. This weapon worth over 300 gold, so you can sell it and get the axe as soon as you reach the party camp. :)

@@AKisHerceg Thank you! Been wanting to do a dwarf run eventually but didn’t want to do dual dagger as I’m saving that for my city elf run, so I thought about using axes. Thank you again and looking forward to the future videos!

@@charleskonz3273 You can also exploit the trap quest glitch in Lothering, if you're willing to do that look more into it, you can generate infinite money and exp with that as long as you stay in Lothering

I guess it is a matter of perspective. :) Considering that a Dex rogue can have 160-170+ defense, I would say 90-100 is pretty low for a squishy rogue. Especially when enemies can have many attack boost and defense reducing skills, like Precise Striking, War Cry, Weakness Aura, Weakness, Miasma, Rally, Dueling etc. That defense can quickly end up being 60-70 during a fight. Which makes you a punching bag against anything but critters.

No, it does not matter that much. Humans simply are the best because of the way their stats are distributed at the beginning. But these builds are viable with any class. :)

They use Momentum and I use the Swift Salve consumable. This brings their speed to the maximum. :)

That is certainly true. Dex is kind of a "headache medicine" on Nightmare.

Nope, no mods. Well, other than the(in my opinion must have) Visual Effect Annoyance remover(or whatever it is called - the mod to remove the sustained ability visual effects) - otherwise my game crashes in every 2 minutes. :)

Normal difficulty? Pretty much anything is good in terms of armor: excluding dlc armors, the Dalish armor set gives good defense bonus(+10 for wearing the whole set and you can buy the whole set from the Dalish camp), the Shadows of the Empire gives Dex and Str and you can get boots and gloves based on your preference(Red Jenny Seekers Gloves being the best for a rogue with either Bard's Dancing Shoes or Silverhammer's Tackmasters). The Felon's Coat and Wade's Superior Light armor set also works well. Although you can only get those two later on. If you are looking for good appearance, the Duster Leather armor looks best on a dwarf in my opinion. For the set, you get a small armor bonus, which is not exactly great, but better than nothing. For daggers, obviously the Rose's Thorn is the best in main hand and you can use the Thorn of the Dead Gods(Silverite version is the best) in your other hand. Accessories: Spellward amulet for magic res, Lifegiver for massive health boost and Key to the city for +2 attribute. As for stats, I would recommend putting everything on Dexterity(since you solo, you will need the massive defense so enemies will not hit you). Place just enough points on STR to equip your gear(the best tier version of any Light armor will require 24 STR to equip) and just enough points on Cunning to unlock Master Coercion(requires 16 Cunning to unlock). I recommend putting Dweomer runes into your weapons, since magic can really crush you when you solo. You better have high magic resistance because you will have no help from followers if someone casts Crushing Prison or Curse of Mortality on you. Disabling spells like Horror, Misdirection Hex are also very annoying. Over-time damage spells like Stinging Swarm or Fireball can hurt you really bad as well. At least on Nightmare. Normal is much more forgiving since you have lower duration on harmful effects and they deal less damage as well. For a Dex rogue, the most important skills are passive skills: you need Coup de Grace to auto backstab stunned targets and Combat Movement for wider range for our backstabs. Lethality, and Evasion are also great although many people ignores Evasion because of its animation(interrupts your attacks). For Specializations, get Duelist or Assassin if you really just want to focus on high defense and backstabs. If you want, you can pick up Ranger so you can summon an animal to fight with you - since you plan to solo, a bear can help you out greatly when fighting dragons and the wolf can help you with mobs. :)

Actually, the next is my full magic Arcane Blood Mage - melee focused AW with no hardpoint on anything else other then Magic. She busts through walls, I tell you...

@@AKisHerceg oh yes, I recall doing that years ago. Nothing but buffs and entropy magic for enemy debuffs.

@@StarMarshal Yup! I did get all the Hexes thinking that it will boost my Flame Weapon damage and have auto-crit, but even that is kind of useless, since I kill almost everything with 3 hits(I only use them on Elite Bosses)... With Haste and Swift Salve, that three hit is less than two seconds. The only thing I use often is Blood Control to basically yell "Freeze!" lol. Pretty amusing gameplay - especially as a duo with an Alistair archer. :)

@@AKisHerceg oh yeah, I meant for miasma and other sustainables. Though I will say the nightmare combo was very useful early game.

Definitely Dex. :)

Warriors can have tremendous damage with a full STR build and good crit chance. 150+ dmg is a very common with it. My most recent video shows a Reaver/Berserker build and almost every second or third hit is a 170 dmg critical hit. The only problem of course is the defense, just like with the Cunning rogue.

Yes, daggers are much better for these types of rogues. They are faster(hence they also backstab faster) and they get dmg bonus from cunning and dex instead of str like swords. Yup, that party sounds great! :)

@@AKisHerceg cool, thank you. I haven't playe DA:O in years, and now that I have a 360 again, I want to really enjoy this game and play it to it's full potential.

The reason I'm interested in these builds is because I've always preferred to be the rogue of the group, that way I can ensure that I get all the chests and traps.

​@@AKisHerceg doesn't Lethality take care of that tho? It uses your cunning instead of strength as a damage modifier, so a full sized weapon, dual wielding rogue should still be possible... 🤔

@@ugn154 It is possible, you can check out my two-handed rogue for that. :) For backstabs however, only the base damage of your main hand weapon is being calculated, so it is completely irrelevant what you hold in the other hand(when it comes to BASE dmg - enchantments still count). Using two swords for a rogue is not optimal because of the speed penalty that comes with full-sized weapons. Especially since you have daggers that give 30% bonus to criticals and backstabs so it is much better to hold that in the weak hand than another sword. There is no sword what would give you the same(Blightblood gives you the best out of all swords and it's only 10% crti/backstab dmg). Two-handed weapons work better than double swords, because although they are slow, two-handed weapons can have very high base damage. Even the crappy Tier 2 Chasind Flatblade with basically no str requirement deals 12.10 base damage, which is higher than a dragonbone Maric's Blade(11.20). And as I said, your backstab is calculated on the base damage. :)

Nope, not difficult at all. At least for me. That is why I place them on the bar, so I can just activate them one after the other, and I can see how many is left from each. I also don't use all poisons for every encounter. I usually use the most abundant ones like the Crow Poisons and the Deathroot Extracts(they can stun). Against Elite Bosses however, I use all of them for maximum damage. I think I would go with my fav class the 2H warrior. It can be pretty powerful and also deal excellent damage. Plus with Indomitable, you can't be knocked down nor stunned - which are the most annoying things in the game. A two-handed Berserker-Champion. :)

@@AKisHerceg that's the same build I just finished on my Xbox I could see how different they are comparatively any advice on how to deal with the harvester? It was pretty hard on the Xbox I had to reset from awakening to do it 😂😂

@@randyurban6636 It's not that difficult. Just get the Spirit Warrior spec and it will be a cakewalk. :)

There is a mod that will allow your poisons to last and hour.

Yup, you get massive bonuses at high levels. You can do a hybrid rogue, but you won't see damage numbers like these popping up, nor you will have this high defense. Generally speaking, in my experience, "hybrid" builds are weaker than "focus" builds. :)

@@AKisHerceg got it!! Thanks!

@@chris55729jack of all trades Rogues suck. This is true of all classes, but the Rogue is the least forgiving class if you build them wrong.

Flash Creatures Reescale? What's that?

@@AKisHerceg Only one of the mods that will change the WHOLE experience of DA:O! The mod basically changes the rank system of the enemies to make them more lorewise. Animals and untrain solders will be the easiest enemies in easy and normal rank, when seasoned soldiers will be hard and very hard, and Elite and Boss Elite will be the ones that are easily world treatening. For example, in the Circle of Magi, there are tons of Abominations, each said to be capable of killing multiple templars and being and treath for humanity. In vanilla, most of them are easily dealt with. With FCR, almost ALL OF THEM will be Mini bosses or bosses! It makes the game completly different difficulty wise, in some places for better, in others for worse. An example of this is Píotin Aeducan, it will no longer be a boss with the resistance and power of a HighDragon, but rather an elite seasoned soldier. However, ALL the Darkspawn will be difficult, in fact, it makes some of the origin stories very hard, or downright impossible. If that wasn't enough! It comes with some extra debuffs: Longer cooldowns for healing potions Reduce effectivity of all healing and Mana potions Reduce health (Basically, a mage or a puny rogue will die in 2 to 4 hits) Less damage made by players. It converts the ENTIRE game into a new nightmare of tactics that you need to overcome, if you already know where ALL the enemies are, how powerful they are, and how easily defeat them. No longer will you be able to do this Solo. This will make it a CHALLANGE!

Hmm, never tried Flash Creatures Reescale but I played with slinks s3 RAVAge instead. I creates random spawns and random items which is very addicting. It's a great mod as well but the problem was the the gear was a bit op so the game ended up being easier i the long run.

Stealth is actually a very effective way for the Cunning rogue to avoid fights altogether. For example you can walk through the entire Deep Roads(just run to the exit to the next thaig while Stealth is active)/Mountain Caverns(run to Kolgrim and pick the "I think I will kill this Andraste and take her power" dialogue option and it will kick you out of the dialogue and you won't fight Kolgim either)/Bercillian Ruins(when you enter the lower ruins, just run to the last room where the Arcane Horror appears and jump into the water, it will transfer you to the next location even if you are in combat) sections without lifting a finger - this of course cuts off some of the xp you would get, but you can always go back after you get the xp for finishing the quest). Cunning Rogue does get into trouble when it fights Elite Bosses, since Stealth is not an option there. But you only fight those during the endgame anyway.

Nope. :)

@@AKisHerceg Thanks for keeping an awesome game alive!

@@KHeady87 except in Awakening

Archer should go with the Summoner, the Bard or the Duelist. Assassin is mainly for backstabbing. :) A high cunning archer make use of the Assassin spec, but I would rather pick a different one.

@@AKisHerceg I wish I had known that before I spent my points on dexterity. :(

@@clancy1379 In Awakening, DEX archers wreck everything with their new Accuracy skill or whatever it is called. In fact, the highest numbers you can see is from a dex archer using Accuracy + AoS; granted, you will only see those thousands of dmg on whit or yellow mobs, but still... you won't find other skills to hit for 5k+ dmg; maybe mana clash?). In Origins, archers are fairly underwhelming compared to DW, but they definitely have their bright points (such as sniping mages with AoS). I think it just hurts them a lot the fact that most skills are just not worth using, when compared to simply auto-attacking (e.g you actually lose DPS by using stuff like critical strike even in the early game)

Not sure what would be the comparison there, because the stats work a bit differently. In Inquisition you kind of need both to have a good rogue build. :)

Yeah, as you said "So maybe my biases are for a normal playthrough". I think you should try Nightmare. :) This does not just apply when solo either. There are three things that can give defense: Heroic Aura, Glyph of Warding and Rally. So even if you don't solo, if you want to raise your defense you either bring a Champion or a Support Mage. Otherwise no matter how many people are in your crew, your defense will still be very low. Given the fact that rogues are already squishy because of their low health, low defense can be pretty dangerous on Nightmare where enemies can constantly score a hit even above 110+ defense.

@@AKisHerceg You meant Heroic Defense instead of Aura of Heroism I think? Also you forgot about Incense of Awareness (consumable) which grants +10 Defence for 2 minutes at the cost of 1690 copper which is affordable. Honorable mention for Champion Shield (+15 Defence alltogether and up to 3 copies per playthrough).

@@Sanvone Heroic Defense yup. Heroic Aura is also good because it helps against archers. Incense of Awareness is something you can use when you solo as well. As you see it in the video. We were talking about what your party can give you when it comes to defense. :)

Nope, no glitch. And, yup, you certainly can! :) I min/maxed these characters, which means that I spent nothing more than what I had to on other attributes. I used the fade wells to get str/wp/const and the additional dex and cun. They are both at level 25 so that is a total of 77 attribute points(with the 5 you get during character creation). Rogues start with: 10 STR 14 DEX 12 WP 10 MAG 14 CUN 10 CONS Here are the points you get in the fade: Font of Strength (x4) Essence of Dexterity (x4) Essence of Willpower (x4) Essence of Magic (x2) Essence of Cunning (x5) Essence of Constitution (x2) So that makes it: 14 STR 18 DEX 16 WP 12 MAG 19 CUN 12 CONS I placed zero points on str, cons, willpower and magic(I used the well and equipment to get what I needed). With the cunning rogue, I had to place enough dex to reach 35 for Evasion(I did not get dual weapon mastery to preserve that +1 attribute point - plus it does not really do much for a dual dagger rogue anyway). With the dex rogue I placed nothing on cunning. Everything was placed on dex(that is why I don't even have Master Stealth unlocked - I did not have 22 hard point in cunning, only 19(you start with 14 + 5 from the wells in the fade =19 Cunning). Still, I had to use the Harvest Ring from the Stone Prisoner dlc and Andruil's Belt to boost up my strength enough to equip the armor and the gloves, then I switched the ring to the Lifegiver(this ring gives +10 constitution) - that is why you see that the str requirement does not meet my armor and gloves yet, I have them equipped(initially you start with 10 str - you get 4 from the fade, +2 Andruil, +2 Harvest Ring +2 Key to the city = 20 which is the amount needed for the armor and gloves). I also have the Key to the House(+2 attrib) and the Maneuvering Belt(+1 all attrib). I switched Andruil to the Manuvering Belt once the armor was equipped, because it gives +10 dodge %. I have Duncan's Dagger(+4), Battledress of the Provocateur(+4), Silverhammer's Tackmasters(+2) and Rose's Thron(+2) on both characters, that gives +12 dexterity. You have to tomes with 1-1 attribute point. One from Varathorn, one from the dwarf in Orzammar. So for dex rogue(Dalish Elf starts with 14 dex): Initial 14 +5(character creation) + 72(levelling) +2(2 tomes) + 4(fade fonts) = 97 attribute points on Dex. For cunning rogue(Human Noble starts with 15 dex and 15 cunning): Total attribute points from levelling: 77 - 16 goes to Dexterity to reach 35(19(with the +4 from fade)+16=35), we have 61 left. Initial(Cunning) 15 + 5(fade fonts) + 2(tomes) + 61(levelling) = 83 attribute points on Cun. Pretty simple, it's just a pain in the butt to do the fade at low level so you can get those attribute points fast.

Also I love your videos! DA is my favorite series and I'm getting back into it.

There are merchants that sell infinite quantities of every crafting material in this game. So it's just a matter of money (which could also be farmed using potion making)

@@UnQuacker ah i figured, i was just too lazy to keep crafting and selling. some of those agents are expensive lol. i just didnt know if there was a dupe glitch or sumn they use

Thanks! :) Yup, Varathorn(Dalish Camp)has infinite materials for poisons(Deathroot, Toxin Extract). The dwarf merchant in the Dust Town in Orzammar has infinite amount of Corrupter Agent and the Tavern Keeper in Denerim(he has the best price) has infinite Concentrator and Distillation Agent. Bodhan in the camp also has infinite of those two, but he is more expensive.

Well, that is why you use poisons! :) Poisons make all the difference for a dex rogue, they can triple your damage output, especially since many of them stun, which allows auto backstabs.

In the Ultimate Edition, yes. As I hear, there are some patches where you can't, sadly.

Thanks! :) Yeah, I am aware of the bug. Pretty annoying one! But that 2.5% melee crit chance is just too good to pass up.

@@AKisHerceg that's true, I love your DA:O, thank you so much

on reaver it aint that bad. of course its not intended to be this way, but i find it good to constantly lose ~5 points of health every second.

y but there is a mod that fixes it, at least on pc

@@CastlesKingSide In case anyone is wondering, I believe the mod is Dain's Fixes.

Not really. More like cunning is better for damage, dex is better for defense. :)

I love dealing massive damage with the Cunning rogue, but I really prefer being relaxed knowing that most things can't really hit me with the Dex rogue. :)

Yup, everything you see on my channel is always on the hardest difficulty. :) Worst class? Well, I have not heard that before, but I definitely disagree with it.

@@AKisHerceg oh I have heard. I always thought rogue was the worst of the three for the hardest difficulty. I heard mage was the best and shield and sword were the second best. My personal favorite in all three games is shield and sword but it’s cuz I hate being knocked down lol

@@conradkorbol I think the Dex rogue and the Arcane Warrior are the easiest to complete the game with solo. That should definitely put the rogue far away from the worst class category. :) They can move around enemies undetected, even skip boss fights and huge parts of the otherwise grueling places like the Deep Roads. Whereas W&S Warriors have no choice but to slowly "chip away" every enemy in the game. Their damage is weak, their crowd control is basically non-existent(only War Cry as a Champion), and they have no way of avoiding any tough fights.

@@AKisHerceg yeah your channel has changed my mind as to how awesome Rouges are lol. I liked my dex dual wielding build. I need to play origins again

Funny, Because I like rogue, I guess I just like the idea of being able to have a skill list for duel wielding

Are you taking about Origins? Tier 2 weapons in Origins are Grey Iron I believe, which is the second worse category. So no wonder your damage is low. Get a Silverite(Tier 6) or a Dragonbone(Tier 7) dagger. If you mean Inquisition, then it is the same thing. Tier 2 is the second worse category(Tier 4 is the best, Tier 3 is already good). Your damage will not be impressive with Tier 2 no matter which game you play.

@@AKisHerceg I legit don’t know what else to do. The enemy’s keep scaling up no attempt I make to get stronger makes a difference. It’s difficult to strategize with my party because I can’t read what their skills do. This game is making me so angry.

@@spencerbowden2979 Can you be a little less vague? What is your level? Equipment? Stat distribution? What quest are you on? What do you mean you can't read what their skills do? Answer these questions and I might be able to help.

@@AKisHerceg I’m level 6 currently fighting bandits in that settlement my main character is a rogue with a tier 2 dagger and a tier 3 one with improved combat training. I have allister, Morgana and the dog I have 16 strength 22 dexterity and 20 cunning. I use allister to tank damage but he’s easily overwhelmed and killed even though I’ve put my splintmail armor I found on him which is tier 2. I have morgona sniping in the back and the dog trying to aid allister all while I try to get to their back and critical stab them to death. The problem is allister just doesn’t last.

@@spencerbowden2979 Well, rogue is the hardest at early levels, so you just have to suffer through the first 9-10 levels. I actually recommend boosting your dexterity from now on(in fact boost nothing else just this attribute from this moment forward), not your cunning if you have never built rogue before. It is a significantly easier build, and later on you will be almost impossible to kill. Cunning rogues are for more experienced players. Naturally Alistair won't last long at early levels, since he can't take so much damage yet. His armor is trash, his health is not high yet either. Get Shield Wall for him as soon as you can(extra armor and with the passives, he can't be knocked down). That will boost his survivability massively. Your damager at this point should be Morrigan, because she can dish out the most damage. Your rogue is very weak at this point, so be sure to keep him behind the enemies. Don't charge at them with your rogue. Ever. Flank them with it! Elite enemies should be targeted with Morrigan with Vulnerably Hex then Winter's Grasp. This deals a good amount of dmg and has a chance to freeze enemies solid. Elites and dogs also should be paralyzed with Horror by Morrigan, since this will take them out of the fight for a while. It is best to control Morrgian at this point if you don't have much experience with the game, because this way you can deal a lot of damage, which is exactly what is missing for you(plus she is excellent at "hitting and running"}. Your dog can also mass stun enemies with Dread Howl. Use the tactical pause often, and heal when you need to. Utilize hit and run tactics. When you kill an an enemy, you can select your whole party and run away. After a certain distance, you will be dropped out of combat. The bandits don't follow you into town. Put your team at a distance, around the cage of Sten, and order your party to hold and use Morrigan to lure some of them by attacking them with your staff(attack them and then run to your party with Morrigan). The melee fighters should charge at you at this point, but the archers will remain standing where they are. This way it should be much easier to deal with them. Basically you separate the group into two smaller groups. You can also skip the bandits for awhile, and head to the Imperial road(left side of the map - instead of turning right, turn left at the windmill and stay close to the left side). Kill the peasants there who will attack you(they should be easier than the bandits, they have no armor), then save the dwarf there at the end of the road, from a group of darkspawn. After this you will have access to the camp, and Bodhan the dwarf(and Sandal who can enchant your stuff). He has a few good items, some are cheap too, so you can check if there is any equipment there that could help. After you enter the camp, you can also go to the Daish camp if you want to create lots of small healing potions to even the odds(save before you leave the camp, so if you bump into a hard random encounter, you can just reload and try to go there again). Varathorn there has an infinite supply of elfroot, which is what you need for the small healing potion. So get some Empty Flasks from Bodhan and Elfroot from Varathorn and make a few Small Healing Potions with Morrigan(from around 2-3 gold, you can create 100!). Then you can return to the bandits in Lothering. They should be much easier now. I recommend you check out my "Top 5 hardest early level boss fights' video, to see how to fight effectively with the tactical menu. That character is also at level 6 when I took on one of the hardest challenges of the game. As you will see it there, I used Morrgigan there mostly, since she is a killer at early levels.

Poison stacking works depending on your version of the game. The Ultimate Edition allows it. I think patch 1.4 and above.

That depends on what we are talking about. If we are talking about just raw per hit numbers, then yes. Otherwise, no. I assume that 150+ staff damage comes from the Hex boosted elemental attacks. Thing is, magic staffs are slow and their attack speed can't be improved. So I would say a cunning rogue can out-damage it with its speed and high damage. A max speed double dagger rogue can hit a target 3-4 times during a single staff animation. Even if the backstab damage is just a lame 40 per hit, it still beats the staff. And a maxed cunning rogue can hit much harder than lousy 40 critical. Now, I grant you that the staff would be auto-hit, so it would ignore the defense of the enemy, but I still think the rogue would deal more damage overall. Especially if we count enemy immunity, magic res, which can negate your curses and the fact that you can't just spam curses on everyone since they have a 20 sec cooldown. 250+ archery base damage? Is this in Origins or are you talking about Awakening? Not sure how you managed to do that in Origins, but I would say that is quite impossible, even with a min/maxed cunning archer(sure in Awakening you can just boost Dex and get Accuracy and you get there in no time). But in Origins, archery is definitely worse in terms of damage than any dual-dagger build. Even with the Repeater Gloves, your aim speed is way too slow compared to a DD rogue with Swift Salve + Momentum.

I wrote much of the wiki. You're forgetting the x3 mage with Shale/Zevran mark party isn't only using auto attacks. But also spells, all boosted by the high spellpower also. Wynne actually hits harder on both than the MC due to Spirit of the Vessel, if your ego allows it.

@@nobodynothing282 I'm confused. I thought we are talking about a single character's damage output, not a team. Specifically your indication that "150+ damage staff attacks, and 250+ damage regular archery shots are the highest damage dealers." I though we were comparing one mage(specifically a mage with their high auto-attack damage) against one rogue(with their auto-attack damage) in terms of damage. My bad if that was not the case. "if your ego allows it" Wow. Not sure what you are referring here, but okay... Yes, mages can use spells, and in a team I think they are the most destructive. A team of BMs are basically unstoppable. Don't disagree with you on that. :)

You need the debuffs, snd stone aura for high spellpower. Archers in Awakening are hsnds down higher dps. I meant by the ego comment many people wouldnt like their MC being weaker than Wynne. Even if it gave the party a power spike.

Sadly, not much you can do with knockdown. Just get up. :) You can raise your physical res to 100 with Shimmering Shield so you can be more resistant to it. Heroic Offense will help you out when it comes to attack. If you don't solo, get Alistair, pick the Champion spec and use Rally on him. Keep him close. Use Miasma to lower the defense of enemies and slow them down. All put together should yield more than 30+ additional attack. Your Spellpower is your attack rating basically, so increase it in any way you can(Spellwisp, Spellmight, +Spellpower and +Magic gear).

It’s why I usually put physical resistance runes on my weapons. It prevents knockdowns and magic skills that are prevented by PR so it’s well worth. Shimmering shield is ofc good as well if you have the right equipment to compensate the mana loss.

Oghren will be in Awakening no matter what. You can only wound Morrigan in Witchhunt, and canonically she is always alive.

Definitely not. For a sword you need points on strength which you take away from dex/defense. :)

@@AKisHerceg so basically, no swords on any type of rogue

@@CastlesKingSide Ideally, yes. :)

Rogues can achieve max speed with the combination of the mage spell Haste and the consumable Swift Salve. They can also reach this with their own sustainable skill Momentum and Swift Salve. However the mage spell Haste and Momentum will not stack properly, so don’t mix those two because you will lose the speed bonus completely.

With daggers, Swift Salve and Momentum gives the best attack speed because it puts you at 0.5 exactly(which is the cap). Haste + Momentum + Precise Striking puts you at 0.45 which is .05 before the cap, which is minimal, but technically it is the best attack speed you can get.

@@AKisHerceg oh, I didn't know that because I never use any consumables buffs.

@@benedictjajo Consumables are awesome! Swift Salve is particularly amazing because it gives you awesome speed without Haste(and its silly attack penalty). You can make infinite amount by buying Deep Mushroom from Ruck(he has infinite amount) and combine it with a Flask, Lyrium Dust and Concentrator Agent(all of them have infinite amount in certain shops).

That half second animation will not reduce the damage output drastically. Definitely not enough to say that without it, it would be able to compete with the cunning rogue... Especially, since the cunning rogue also has the animation. Plus Evasion is definitely not bad, since that skill also gives 20% chance to resist knockback, knockdown, slip, and stun. Which helps with dps, not decreases it. For example, even in this video at 9:21 you can see my dex rogue using Evasion to resist the stun from Scattershot. The same way she can resist the Ogre's Ram, the High Dragon's Roar, Sweep, Tail Swipe, the Golem's Quake etc. In my opinion, very useful skill. :)

@@AKisHerceg if you atacked by 4+ enemy you just cant hit. You just make stupid animations over and over again

@@kuzcoman7049 That is just not true. You can see it in the video where I fight against 6 enemies at once.

@@AKisHerceg its cs you used haste+potion. If you didnt you would stack in this animations.

@@kuzcoman7049 I used Momentum+Swift Salve(no Haste when you solo) and why would I play without them? :) If you are playing a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, then you lose way more dps than what you lose by picking Evasion. I would never play a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, since it would be a waste of time - might as well play a DW Warrior instead.

It gives 10 to both. And basically nothing else. Sure, you get an ability which gives you auto crit for a short time, but that is irrelevant since all you do is backstab which crits automatically anyway. As opposed to massive backstab bonus from Assassin plus Mark of Death which gives another flat 20% dmg bonus plus the stamina restoration from backstab kills. Basically if you plan to backstab you go with an Assassin. Bard is also better for a Cunning Rogue because Song of Courage gives bonus to Attack, Damage and Critical Chance based on cunning.

@@AKisHerceg +10 attack it like 80 cunning SoC with additional +10 defence kinda nice for cunning rogue, and autocrit ability with better hitchance really hep when you can't hide. But in the end for cunning build duelist just slightly cower weak side and assasin slightly buff strong side, not like both a gamechangers but i personaly prefer first way. Bard for first spec still non negotiable.

@@guruvedra My min/maxed Cunning rogue has 97 defense and 102 attack. With the Dueling on it would be 107 and 112. Yup, that is definitely a slight upgrade. My hit chance is still very low, so my auto crit skill would have a hard time actually hitting the target. Now contrast this with the Assassin, which gives around +15 damage on my backstabs. This increases my dps by 30 points, which I personally would not call slight. But to each his own I guess. I think Duelist better for a Dex Rogue(to further increase your attack and defense, plus your auto crit skill is a killer with this much attack) and Assassin is better for a Cunning Rogue(+30 dps adds a lot in my book... I can two-shot any regular enemy from the back). :)

@@AKisHerceg +10 attack = +10% hitchance, for example fighting ser Cautren it impruved hitchance from 56% to 66% and with dual dagger APR its actually solid bust. Same time for dex rogue it far less useful.

I don't think that's a great idea. Massive armor starts around 36 STR(Red Steel). The last double weapon skill needs 36 DEX. This means that you will take away at least 25 CUN from the final build. Pretty absurd if you want to build a damager and your damage is based on CUN. The most rewarding thing in DAO is attribute stacking, because they directly effect your stats, and many skills receive bonuses based on how high they are(esp. CUN). Distributing them so that everything has a little bit everywhere, leads to weaker and less effective builds. I also don't understand why would a rogue wear massive armor. Pretty absurd, unless you are going after some role-play element. :)

@@AKisHerceg Wades Superior Drakeskin and Wade's Superior Dragonskin only gives fatigue and fire resist where Warden Commander and Cailians armor have +15% crit/backstab damage. It doesn't slow you down, and strength requirement goes straight into damage for melee rogues anyways so you lose very little.

@@maxwellhill4754 You lose a lot of damage. I tested this. With the Lethality passive, your Strength will worth next to nothing when it comes to damage. On top of this, you don't get any bonus from the skills that make up the bulk of your damage, namely Song of Courage, Exploit Weakness, Tainted Blade. None of these will receive any benefit from Strength, whereas all of them receive a boost from even from 1 cunning. It simply does not worth wearing massive armor with a cunning rogue if you go after damage. Especially since your main selling point is the 15% crit/backstab damage from those armor sets, which you can easily get from Red Jenny Seekers with 0 STR investment.

In Origins, it might be. If you reach the Golems of Amgarrak dlc, you will not survive without dodge. Even with 300 defense you will be toasted by the skeletons.

It depends what you want from the build, cunning has more dmg output and dexterity more survival because you can doge or block attacks, but you sacriface your dmg and if you don't have healer it can end badly for you. In my experience cunning works better, but its just my playstyle

@@MrErevelation yeah lol, I know that now. I was just assuming Dex was better. But I like tanks

@@conradkorbol yea, sure, whatever works for you, tanks are boring in my opinion, so i don't really play them, but it's awesome to make Alistair this monster who just doesn't want to die so I get the appeal

Paralyze runes don't add up like that(plus they only give you 5% not 10% so 6 would give 30%, but as I said, they don't add up). It's not like dodge or magic res. You will never have a flat 30% chance to paralyze enemies. It's always 5%. With 6 runes, you have six different rolls for 5%. So when one runes fails to paralyze, it runs the next one for the 5% chance, if that fails, it runs the next one for 5% etc. There is no set in DAO that gives almost 100% dodge. The highest you can go before the final battle is 90% and this is with Cailan's Greaves(gives 20% but requires huge str investment since it needs at least 36 for the lowest possible tier) the First Enchanter Cowl(+10%) which you can only buy before the battle of Denerim and the Dark Passage(+5%) which you can miss if you don't want to use Avernus' Research. Without these, you pretty much play through the entire game with around 55-65% dodge, which is not really enough to call it reliable defense.

@@AKisHerceg You are right chance of paralysis is not go up better rune. Time effect just go up. Correct its not 30% but close. But still almost 30% chance every hit and rogue hit very fast. Go 3*rogue that every have 2 weapon which enable almost 30% chance of paralysis every hit. (Can't do that with solo.) Assuming stacking is "each rune has a chance to fire", the probabilities aren't quite just adding them up. The chance that at least one rune out of N fires on each hit: 1-(1-p)^N where p is the probability the rune fires (5% for paralyze). That is 14.3% for 3 runes (close to just adding them). However... not being resisted is where stacked runes can really shine. The math for at least one rune not being resisted is 1-p^N, where p is the chance of resistance. If the target has a 50% resist chance, stacking 3 runes effectively cuts that down to 12.5% (nice). Combining that with the chance to fire, 0.143*0.875 = 12.5% chance to paralyze a target with each hit even though the target has 50% resistance (if you hit and have 3 stacked paralyze runes of course). The resistance-breaking gains of stacking diminish for really high resistances, and they don't really matter for low resistances. If I understand everything correctly, poisons stack in a similar way. What you care about is the probability that at least one of the tries for the effect takes. So you calculate 1 - probability all fail = 1 - ( p_first_fails * p_second_fails * ... ) and the chance the effect fails is just 1 - the chance it works. Poison (Stack): - Deathroot Extract (Auto) 10% chance of causing a 3-second stun per hit (Cheap and unlimited supply) (Flask->Bartender, Bodahn Feddic, Figor Innkeeper, Lloyd ) (Deathroot->Varathorn Brecilian Outskirts, Dalish Camp) - Concentrated Deathroot Extract ( Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass, Merchant in Lothering, Quartermaster at Ostagar) 15% chance of causing a 4-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) - Crow Poison (Alimar in Orzammar's Dust Town district) 10% chance of causing a 6-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (Toxin Extract-> Varathorn) - Concentrated Crow Poison (Cesar in the Denerim Market District) 15% chance of causing a 7-second stun (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (3xToxin Extract-> Varathorn) - Fleshrot (Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass) 20% chance of stun for 5 seconds (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up) (2xDistillation Agent->same as up) (Concentrator Agent-> Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic) Calculation: 10%+15%+10%+15%+20%=70% not actual but almost chance to stun. Okay now calculate paralysis 30% and 70% stun you get 100% that is not actual 100% but very close. DAO Items and abilities: - Rogue Evasion +20% chance to Dodge - Cailan's Greaves +20% chance to dodge attacks - Battledress of the Provocateur +15% chance to dodge attacks (If you play Leliana's Song before DAO) - Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering +10% chance to dodge (if you play Witch Hunt DLC before DAO) - The Spellward +10% chance to dodge attacks - First Enchanter's Cowl +10% chance to dodge attacks - Dark Passage +5% chance to dodge attacks 20+20+15+10+10+10++5=90% chance to dodge attacks.

@@Random.Walker. You can't stack Cailan's Greaves with the Lion's Paw, since they are both boots and you can only wear one of them.

@@AKisHerceg Fixed. It's just 90% (Only 1/10 hit go armor check.) Awakening it's easy 100%

I have to disagree. A warrior can't have 100% dodge. Neither a mage, not even a rogue. Unless you are talking about Awakening(Spirit Warrior spec) and not Origins. Not even sure how you got the calculations. Here is the best dodge providing equipment put together: Battledress of the Provocateur 15%. Cailan's Greaves 20%. First enchanter cowl 10%.(only available before the final fight) Maneuvering belt 10%. Spellward 10%. That is a total of 65%. But 55% before you get to the final fight, since the Cowl is from Bodhan in Redcliff castle right before the Siege of Denerim. Arcane Warrior mages can have an additional 25% with Combat Magic boosted by the Fade Shield passive. Warriors have no way to boost dodge % via skills in Origins. Rogues can have an additional 20% dodge with Evasion and an additional 5% with Dark Passage. So warriors: 55%. 65% before the final fight. Arcane warriors: 70%. 80% before the final fight. Normal mages: 55%. 65% before the final fight. Rogues: 80%. 90% before the final fight. So even with the best dodge % equipment, warriors come nowhere near 100%. Just a bit more than half of that. Not to mention this equipment won't give them 90% damage reduction. Not even close.

@@AKisHerceg Yeah I wasnt talking just abou the base but expansions so Rogues get Legionaire as well etc. With dexterity btw because I was talking about dual wielding to not compare sword and shield. Also the runes and all Awakening equipment. The damage resist was probably badly wordeded because I meant all the elemental damages. Sorry about that. I remember that the Harvester and skelletons there couldnt even touch me and my Warden solod everything after my allies got oneshotted in couple minutes of doing nothing (might as well have not been there)

@@Dark_Voice Yup, that is true, the Warrior turns into a menace in Awakening and beyond with the Spirit Warrior spec. Beyond the Veil is one of the most overpowered skill ever in any DA game. It gives a flat 50% dodge, so with Cailan's Greaves, Spellward, one Evasion rune and the Maneuvering belt, you have 100% dodge. So you can just wear the full armor of Cailan, you don't even need the First Enchanter Cowl. It also gives 55% spell resistance, so with Spellward and two master Dweomer rune, you are immune to magic as well. On top of this, the skill makes you immune to stun, slip and knockdown. Insane. But this is only after Awakening. In Origins, warriors are far from unstoppable. In fact, in my opinion, warriors are the hardest to solo. Rogues can also achieve 100% magic res and 100% dodge in Awakening and the follow up dlcs. Same with mages. In fact elemental damage is not even a big deal, if you are immune to magic, since most enemies who use elemental damage are magic users, which will be completely resisted. Actually, the warrior with the Spirit Warrior spec will have a hard time dealing decent damage because most of the enemies are very resistant to spirit(Disciples, Mother, Harvester etc.). If you bring along a mage with hexes, then it is a different story. Rogues are still masters of damage when we are talking about solo. They get another 50% backstab damage with the Shadow Form from the Shadow Spec and they also get 100% crit damage bonus from the Voice of Velvet. My record kill of the Harvester was with a rogue and it took 32 seconds to kill both of its forms(solo, the team was ordered to stay away).

@@AKisHerceg During my playthroughs, I simply felt way more powerful as Warrior than with Rogue (especially if you dont min max - then the difference is insane). I guess if you do a full on scientific buil, Rogue starts catching up if microed properly. With warrior I could sometimes just relax and play the piano until everyone was dead without even pausing much while with rogues I always had to walk behind them and always search for better spots.

@@Dark_Voice Rouge have better specialisations though. I tried a 3 rouge party where each got ranger + the bard specialisation. Song of courage stacks (to a degree at least) and works on the pets, it's extremely powerful and the pets destroys with that many buffs.

wtf

Makes you able to raise your dodge to 90% and gives a flat 20% chance to resist any type of stun, slip, knockdown and knockback.

Nerfed, not balanced, in my opinion. :) Plus I think it was pretty silly to use Cunning as both the defense stat and the critical damage stat. It literally makes no sense to boost your Cunning after reaching 80% defense, since that is the hard cap. Yet, you have to(instead of being able to invest into Dex for damage) because otherwise your crit damage is gonna be weak. Whereas it makes zero sense to place the damage and the crit chance modifier on Dex. Why would I ever want more than 100% crit chance? Yet I have to keep boosting Dex because it also governs the damage I deal. Who came up with this? Thankfully in Inquisition, they fixed this goof by switching the attributes.

@@AKisHerceg yeaaaah. im drunk atm. sorry())))))))

atm lol