The Dark Elf Rework 

Thanks King.

The question is, on the Skaven, namely the Snitch, are there reworks or some kind of processing in the mechanics of underground cities?

Thanks for the explanation video, I think old system better.

so are those changes going to be ported over to WH2? or just stay in WH3

X

X

No

X

X

They blended it into the N’Kari Devotees mechanic.

This is literally everything they're doing in WHIII, even things that are being praised. I hate the homogenization and flattening they're doing, no doubt in the name of "balance".

I think part of that is because Chaos Dwarves are coming and slaves will become a tradable resource

@@Hazlius As if Dark Elves would EVER talk to a Chaos Dwarf

That's fair, but I honestly thought the slave mechanic was super unfun in WH2. If I wanted to play spreadsheets, I'd be an Eve online player.

Yeah the old system has too much micromanagement, but this swings the pendulum too far the other way.

@@doktarr too much miomanagemnt? wtf its basically 1 klick for each province…

@@DerRusher If you really want to maximize it, you could micromanage it and it would become tedious. The fact that Legend doesn't do that doesn't mean that the option isn't there. But the ultimate sin of the previous system is that it was boring as hell. Sure it was super lucrative, but it wasn't rewarding. It didn't bring me any joy to use it. It just made my campaign much, much easier to use it. And that isn't meaningful nor engaging.

They are really dumbing down the next total war games, I would not be surprised if they would remake Medieval 3 that they would remove the complex building system and soldiers picking stairs out of their butts in sieges.

@@ice20861 the only complex buildings was getting specific guilds that you would have to work towards by getting points

I love this idea, it's kind of like a mini Waaagh trophy!

This sounds awesome!

I bet that CA will do this mechanic for the Cheos Dwarf slave mechanic

I would go even futher on the idea. I would revert to the old system and make slave types, so you can control the bonuses in each region. Like your examples, dwarfs reduce construction cost and maybe increase income from mines, HE gives public order bonuses (since DE would love to torture them) and so on. I personally think the more interactive the system is, the better.

@@cateto4029 The bigger of a scumbag you can be playing dark elves the better.

That’s a grudgin

Real Thorgrim Grudgebearer would've never said that! You are an elgi imposter!

@@narxes - famously spiteful - hates high elves - driven by vengeance - loves crossbows - infamous fondness for cutting down trees and exploiting natural resources yep, it's Druchii AND Dawi time

To be honest, I'm happy to have this limitation, I'd hate to feel obligated to go between every province every 5 turns in long campaigns.

@@mingelcoac Agreed. Sometimes less is more.

Agreed. Their roster is really fun

How do you play Malekith in WH2? I tried for the first time a while ago, sacking everywhere to get slaves, but having wat too many revolts and low control despite buildings (hard difficulty). Do you just sack here and there to avoid this? Seems a bit weird to me, given there's a whole mechanic around slave economy.

@@javicoca you should be farming revolts if you're struggling with rebellions rather than going out and sacking things. Defend and farm a province untim it has enough public order to go on it's own. Then you should attempt confederation with har ganeth and move to kill mung. After that shit gets hard to do consistently so it's up to you

@@javicoca Yea no point on stopping revolts early on you get your money from post battle loot there are no slave econ on first 30 and when you swat a revolt you gain a public order bonus so yea you kinda use post battle loot and sack money to build infrastructure/slave econ. It's actually really fast paced progress if done right.

@@javicoca Make sure your slaves only go to one province and not any other, also make sure you do not cause revolts in your settlement that houses slaves since it decreases your amount of them by a lot.

Great the battles will give you more slaves to farm 🙂

Yeah I agree, the old system would be way improved if there was a major punishment for putting all your eggs in a basket. Would be awesome if your 100K producing Yvresse province suddenly spawned 5 rogue slave armies like a mini-chaos invasion.

Limitless minus PO and add a limit to how many slaves can go to a province

@@JayvH No you would just get the rebelled slaves back if you won against the rebelling armies

Is anything remotely complex called a spreadsheet now? Lmao

@@LordVader1094 Increased C02 in the atmosphere is causing cognitive decline, look it up.

need animations of slaves to conditions to make it immersive tho 💀

Dont forget those buttons are usless after like 50-70 turns 1000per turn is nothing and redundant

That's the main issue I agree. Press this every 5 turns isn't really much of a choice, there's an obvious way to use it.

yeah sure but abusing the dark elf system to gain an insane economic boost was never fun its not even hard to manage so there's not exactly alot of skill expression loss. i mean dark elves had good economy without slaves. Slaves just made their economy incredibly busted i much prefer this change

@@TheCeasar8 I don’t mind a rebalance to make it less powerful. But now it’s less powerful AND less interesting. Why even include it? It’s basically flavor text at this point.

to be honest, the "full on resource allocation program" meant stacking slaves and heroes, not particularly interesting either

Quite a wish list youve got there bud. Hope someone at ca listens!

Hope not the new system is awesome

@@Smratboy I said the exact opposite. They could easily nerf the gold farm by ditching all slave income bonus skills, as I suggested. Make masters reduce the slave impact on public order instead.

@@DrRipper19 Gonna be honest I think some youtube shenanigans went on there because that reply was to someone else's comment. Will delete now but leave this for context.

Yeah heroes and mechanics should be exactly the same for all factions for all races in every campaign. THE SAME>

What where the thoughts he wouldnt mention here?

@@seane6616 To keep it simple: that he really doesn't like the new slave system in TWW3.

My wife is always disappointed by my dick tattoos, but I don't even have a tattoo on it!

to be honest i've played plenty of dark elves , and seen legend play in a similar way and he goes on about this spread sheet, but he'd turn slaves off for all cities and have them pile into the one till it reached max, once it did he'd open up the next city he wanted max slaves in, so it was 1 click every 20 odd turns for turning on a new slave city, and every time he started conquoring a new region he'd turn slaves off to going in that new region . . .not really that much interaction there either except you could press a button to see where all your slaves were (wow). To me neither system is good the old system is completely boring, the new system looks boring, the old system you don't start getting benefits till later in the campaign but they're larger, now you get them earlier but smaller, I can see that +20 control becoming clutch at times and i can see you being able to get 1 k gold within the first few turns of the game with said new system every 5 turns. but really at the end by time you get the DE economy going like he was showing in his turn 75 campaign you're already steamrolling so don't really need that much money anyway . . its just a case of going oi look how much money i can make, By looks of the new system you at least get a few more early game benefits out of it but doesn't have the late game income though you don't need the later game income either since armies are a lot lot cheaper with the supply line reductions.

dick tattoos hehe

@@SirBlaze75 The management was more about conquering the right provinces, stacking assassins and some masters in them and optimizing your buildings in said provinces, while taking public order and possible invasions into account (walls or no wall ?). You might respond that it still ain't much but it goes beyond clicking stop or plus in the dedicated interface.

@@CosmoJZ i'd agree with you to a point, here as it soon becomes an exploit than a management system just like the entrepreneur's for the high elves. and again it's a move them to the provence and leave them there situation. So again only doable when you get cap available.

What?

@@TheNoodleGod9001 they’re referencing boba Fett’s ship having its name ‘slave 1’ being omitted in favour of just calling it by its in-universe model designation ‘Firespray.’ Presumably Disney, Lego, or some other force felt uncomfortable about putting the word ‘slave’ on kids toys /products. Doubly so when no one knows why the ship was named Slave 1 to begin with without having to seek out the wookieepedia article.

@@commandercors Ah

@@commandercors I get a chuckle about Americans and slavery, they tip toe around it like they invented the bloody thing

@Pelinal Whitestrake That said I think it's also possible to have genuine reactions to emotionally charged issues (like slavery), that can't and shouldn't be dismissed as fakery, virtue signalling, being soft or what have you. We all engage in suspension of disbelief to enjoy the content we do, whether it be violent films, literature, or video games. I think that based on an individuals background, training and life experience they can certainly have a hard time dealing with depiction of one horror or another. So whilst I do criticise some people for speaking arrogantly in a manner that seems to lack context (e.g., my country was the only one that did slavery, so care about my perspective), and people who abuse the good manners of others by pretending, virtue signalling, etc, I also think it's important to remain in touch with our empathy for others, including their genuine feelings. Of course, I ultimately agree that those feelings aren't a reason for censoring art, etc.

so they will kill it for high elves too? probably but in a way before you needed to decide if it is wort parking or sending them to battle not it feels like to battle with you all , back in rome 2 it was fun with governors that more or less played as parked heroes

@@sanjikaneki6226 mages at the very least are quite useful in battles (more than masters). And it was a single trait specifically which you have to farm and had already been nerfed quite heavily. It may avoid further nerfs as it's already not as broken as it was. Having valid choices is more fun, but it seems like CA is going hard into streamlining everything.

If they don't want you to park heroes in a province, why give them abilities that give bonuses to their local province? As it is, those skill choices are worthless because you don't want to put them where they would do the most good

@@sanjikaneki6226 they killed it for high elf already, entrepreneur is nerfed to oblivion

Stupidly, they added the Attamans. Heroes that act as governors and stay only in one region... I found that pretty cool, but then they go out and do something like this. What a kneejerk reaction.

not really, don't forget you have reduced supply line costs by a heafty amount in IE, so you don't need as much money as you used to for so many armies. i've just watched Dame offensives ghorst campaign and she's pulling out a bout 6 armies by turn 19 sure they're zombe stacks, but 6 armies turn 19 in ME and making money on top of that only Brets could do that in ME

@@SirBlaze75 I'm also watching DameOffensive's Ghorst campaign and you are completely forgetting the COST DIFFERENCE between those zombies and darkshards. In Ghorst's campaign, zombie units are extremely cost effective with a base unit upkeep cost of 19 (currently 12) cash per turn. You can see the difference in upkeep costs by comparing DameOffensive's first episode with her most recent episode. By contrast, darkshards have a base unit upkeep cost of 137, which is easily 5 times more expensive than zombies. Economies of scale matter.

@@hentaioverwhelming No i wasn't forgetting the cost difference ergo I infered running the same set up in both ME and IE, and used Dame as an easy reference, cos you're not gonna be running by turn 20 6 armies 4 of which are full stacks 2 half stacks, and maintaining a positive income all that easily in ME, why because the supply line costs are going to be increasing the cost of each army by what 75% by that stage not sure maybe more cos of legendary. where is in IE the supply line costs will be what 20% extra, as far as i know its 15% increase per army after the first for ME, and only a 4% increase per army in IE, You don 't seem to be taking this part of the economics into consideration

@@SirBlaze75 As dark elves in Warhammer 2, I can make 25K to over 50K from several high capacity provinces using the slave system where a normal province would only really net me roughly 5K to 10K in taxes and still allow me to expand my empire without worrying about public order problems. I think the highest earning province I had gave me 60K in taxes. Definitely not as amazing as high elves with their entrepreneur spam but it allowed me to field armies at a moment's notice to protect these core provinces. With how this system has been revamped in Warhammer 3 for dark elves, the most any province will make in taxes is roughly 8K which is peanuts compared to the previous system. Then there is the whole bullshit with the global public order penalty due to having a large amount of slaves in a global pool which makes expanding the empire a bit more of a pain in the ass. The fact of the matter is that the dark elves, as an empire, are very similar to the Roman Empire: they are extremely dependent on the influx of new slave labor to massively inflate their economy. I would say that you don't seem to understand the economics of this problem.

@@hentaioverwhelming I understand the economics well enough to realsie that they've changed the system in IE to a reasonable extent, Regions Grow faster and are built up quicker so get to tier 4&5 far more speedily than ever and armies are far far cheaper in IE not only that it appears that public order isn't as harsh as it used to be ( though this might be down to the players i've watched than it actually being the case.) In Essence they've revamped the DE Economy for a new IE Economy, you seem to be working off ME's old economic setting and don't understand that the actual base game has changed, such that you hadn't even realised i was talking about supply lines even though i'd used the term when refering to Dames game. I mean 6 armies in both you're saving about 55% of the base units cost in each army by that stage. and when you were talking about dark shard stacks that's approximatetly what 1400 more gold per army you're paying in ME, with a less developed province in the same time period

I'm honestly let down. They took everything that was intricate about it and turned it into another single variable that shows up at the screen at the top row. :(

I recall in some other total war games there’s a system called imperium level, which gives the player factionwide public order debuff and other debuffs as they conquer more land. I think maintaining slaves and PO in WH3 would be kinda similar to that.

Did u even play dark elves

Uh yeah, they were my first played, and most played, race in WH2.

You mean abuse the income and revolt system. It wasn't deep or clever it was a glorified cheat code and this is coming from someone who played them a lot. I don't think the new system is the be all end all but it's a start. Hopefully they'll add to it over time, same as the geomantic web. But so far it seems like a simple but useful system that will help you pick and choose your conquests. Which may be really damn useful in IE.

@@Smratboy i didn't say it was deep or clever i just said it seems there are even less things to think about with the new system. I don't know what you mean with pick and choose your conquests tbh the new system to me at least doesn't look like it requires me to do anything other than sack and occupy everything which was what you did as DE everytime anyway.

@@simjo1311 So does it just come down to you don't like not being able to cheese farm slaves? What I mean by pick and choose is the new little dictats will help set up anchor points and staging grounds within a very short amount of turns. Is it one of the greatest mechanics in game? No of course not, but it's better than what we had in practicality and hopefully will be added to again later.

@@Smratboy again i don't know if the new system is better than the old one or not i have not played it yet. My point is that the new system seems to be a more isolated mechanic this means there are less ways it impacts the way i end up playing the game. For me the WH2 system throughout a playthrough would come up time and time again whether that was in the tech tree or the landmarks in a city i just took or the slave related buildings in general or the hero capacity i have or how many slaves are currently in my money making regions and if i can open another region to take on slaves all that impacted me playing and i just am not confident the new system will do the same or even similar things to that. Again them adding to it later is great but irrelevant right now and there isn't even a guarantee they will add to it at all.

How, 1000per turn income is nothing after 70-100 turns, its redundant stuff and boring

It's a better system and you're wrong. The last system was hardly interactive and overpowered.

@@JWSoul You're the one who's wrong here. Old system was hardly interactive. New system is barely interactive at all. The main design philosophy at play here was first and foremost nerfing the old system, not replacing it with something actually interesting. And hilariously, the ports cost slaves to maintain whereas the resource buildings dont. Somehow, all the slave trade and piratical enterprise that the ports sustain fail to make up for all the dock workers who are constantly dying. And meanwhile, no Dark Elf slave ever dies in harvesting resources. The new system is a joke. I can live with it, and I can continue to have fun with the Dark Elves, but I will also call a spade a spade : the new system is not an improvement. it's uninspired and ill-thought out. dont get me wrong, I think they were right to apply nerfs to the Dark Elf economy. but it is absolutely insane to me that you or anyone else can seriously suggest that the new system is better in any way.

@@TheKolboShow At least you have Province abilities to use and manage. Also regarding the logic fail you mentioned. That's minor and yeah I agree silly. But it is clearly a more interesting system. Before all it was, was brain dead boring and un interactive. This is clearly better and at least you may have to use your brain a bit. Have to disagree with uou to be honest the old system was pathetic boring and mindless and just an easy way for players to become rich. That's my opinion now as of seeing this but it may change when I play. Worth noting the rewards you get now for the amount of overall slaves you have. I dont remember if that was a thing before or not I'm afraid as my Legendary playthrough as Malakeith and then later Malus was a long time ago.

@@JWSoul What more interactive? Actually deciding where to put resources and build special buildings and place heroes for passive benefits... Or... Hit button. Jeez gosh, wow, I guess the new one is way more interactive. I have one decision to make. Very hard.

​@@JWSoul You don't remember if you are rewarded for having more slaves? You put that in the same post about "using your brain a bit" that's hysterical.

AI passivity and then the settlement battle omnipresence. I'd prefer they fix AI first as we have plenty of mods to throw settlement battles out the window While zero mods to fix AI.

@@loowick4074 Radious makes AI way more aggressive

@@OctagonCookies radious spams u with generic units tho

It's a singleplayer game.... literally no need to nerf shit. If you don't want to abuse it then don't. The answer isn't to punish others.

@@Regnier575 The meaning here isn't to punish anyone but to make a better system than one that is either useless or overpowered, depending on how you use it. I don't see that as a good game mechanic so i wish for a revamp, but that's just my humble opinion.

@@Regnier575 I mostly agree with what you're saying, but it's also unfun having to actively curtail what choices you can make because some of them are too good. To take the example to an extreme if when chaos dwarfs come out half the roster is functionally invincible and beats everything in melee even on very hard battle difficulty we'd surely all be incredibly disappointed, even if you could just use the half of the roster that does that. Obviously the example is an exaggeration but the point is there clearly is a point at which balance hurts player fun in single player. Personally I really want to engage with the system in 2 because I love in depth economies in games, but I don't feel I can because if I do then I'm making 100k gold on turn 30, the solution to that obviously is not to make a system with no depth instead but I do think it needed to change.

@@Regnier575 If that's the case all lords should start the game with a free sword of Khaine without any negative effects. And it should be impossible for the player to ever lose a battle. Yeah no, challenge and adversity is what makes games fun.

@@ericement6568 You are mixing up balance and fun. The goal of a game is to increase fun, not balance. If increasing balance leads to an increase in fun, great! If increasing balance leads to a decrease in fun, bad. Balance DOES matter particularly in sports. A sport needs to optimise balance, even if that impacts on fun. A game, however, only needs to optimise fun - balance only matters in regard to increasing fun. A single player game cannot be a sport, so fun is what we should be trying to optimise, not balance. So the real question here is, is the new mechanic more or less *fun* than the old?

That's not how a strategy game should work. Rather, this is a development you usually see in MOBAs, MMORPGs or said Fighting games you mentioned where uncautious devs swing the nerf bat excessively and overtune other stuff. It's the telltale sign of bad decision making. That we perceive it as part of this game says a lot.

He must have upgraded his PC

Balance doesn't matter in a single player game, fun does. Legend understands that, hence why he doesn't focus on balance.

@@RJWhitmore some of us play MP campaign with friends. It's not fun if the DE player basically has infinite money.