The Dark Reality Of The Christian Music Industry | State Of Grace | Refinery29 

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“We don’t need more Christian artists. We need more artists with their Christianity intact.” -Brian Welch, lead bassist for the band KORN.

I love this,although this is only one side of the Christian music industry because black Christian music is a whole other ball game with its history behind it and why it sounds the way it sounds

I choked on my spit laughing so hard when you said most of the songs involve water. It's so true lol. Waves, rivers, pools, cleansing.

I wrote some worship songs that i cared about when i was a hyper-churchy teen, i was a youth group kid, a church camp attending believer, and then a leader, but my parents were more agnostic, but encouraged me to explore whatever i liked. I had the secular experines that alot of my church friends didn't have. My parents preached safe sex not abstinence, my mum was the head of our house, etc. I was always encouraged to share my experiences, how i used to drink and smoke until i found Jesus, and that my testimony was more moving because i chose God without being born into a church. This sentiment was immediately back-peddled when i wrote some songs and asked to sing them at church, i sang in the evening (the younger service) church band, and my bandmates loved them, but the hugher ups said no. I never got a great answer, just some bs about how it wasn't theologically sound, but now that im 20, that i left that church, got sucked into Hillsong then left when i realised it was a money-sucking cult, and have 3 years of college under my belt, i realise my lyrics weren't on-brand enough for the church. It wasn't about purity, or being a worm, it was about the personal love i have between myself and our Lord, and that we are all perfect, that even our mistakes are written, and that we are loved. I wrote about real experiences, things i thought my peers could relate to, and they did, but only my inner circle could ever hear them. My fav song that i wrote was about how even through all the temptations and all my failure, i am still loved, and even if i'm not successful by earthy standards, i'm perfect in God's eyes. One day, when im not so self-conscious, when i find a church again that feels like home, maybe ill share them. I know God wanted me to write those songs in my heart, but for now, i'll keep singing them in the shower. (side note: i hate the term progressive Christian, we are called to love, to forgive, not to judge, but here i am doing that, and some people think its some crazy new idea)

i love how stereotypical yet accurate the song was

Its almost impossible for black people to thrive in ccm and that should say something

This video points out how cookie-cutter some of this “worship” music is! - it’s perfect hypocrisy… very little of it is actually from the heart. Music is a gift, one to be shared with other musicians in a group setting where all instruments are creating together, a sound unique to those musicians. Cookie cutter garbage doesn’t reflect that at all - it only demonstrates blind faith and blind following.

In my view, some Christian music artists can fall into the trap of pride, and instead of simply sharing their faith in songs, they begin to acquiesce to the world, and the individual pursuit of fame, and wealth. Some contemporary Christian artists emulate rock standards and their Stage performances are no different than a secular concert. The lyrics become hardly noticeable, and the focus turns to themselves, not the Lord. We live in an age of great apostasy and immorality, and Christian musicians have the opportunity to reach the lost with a music ministry. It would be better, in my opinion, to record and play Christian music and share these songs on the internet, but not to seek it as a path to recognition and money. Better to just get an ordinary job to make a living, and consecrate the music ministry to the Lord. Stay humble, walk by faith, live out your Christian life simply.

The disappointing thing about this conversation is that worship has been minimized to a performance based (appearance, using the right wording, wearing the right clothing, etc.) act when worship is actually our expression/response to who God is. We need to return back to biblical worship which actually has nothing to do with us and everything to do with Him.

god there is such a repeating theme of men harassing women for being "too sexual" when its not even remotely related to being sexual. If that doesnt show that the men are the real problem then idk what will

The issue with embracing homosexuality in Christian music is that it is sin, just like my struggle with substance abuse is a sin. A sinner is what we naturally are, and us trying to create a"Christianity" that conforms to our way of being instead of us obeying Christ and trying to surrender our will to his is a subversion of His lordship. If you are a homosexual, I'm not going to pretend to know your struggle. I know it's gotta be hard. Surendering to God is hard. It's hard for me to surrender my heterosexual sin to Christ, but truth doesn't change based on how someone feels. Not for me or for you.

Two things: the crass commercialism of the Christian music industry is actually physically sickening, as in it makes me feel like I've got something squirming inside. Understand people, whether it be artists, producers, techs, whoever, need to be paid for their work but something is rotten here. Every time I think of this "let's build up an image that the artist really doesn't reflect and sell God for a profit" makes me think of Jesus flipping over the money tables. Is this much different than that? 2: If someone asking questions makes you write them off without even considering those questions, the problem is with you and not them. This is becoming far too common in all sorts of places today. Why can't people have a discussion? What makes anything intrinsically off-the-table for conversation? This unwillingness to even listen is how you end up with insular communities of people with almost exactly the same thoughts who hate every other group.

I rolled my eyes into another dimension when she described being blamed for making her "Christian brothers stumble in faith" BC SHE SHOWED AN INCH OF SKIN WTF

All those rules for female performers (purity tests, not wearing revealing clothes, no jumping, etc).... and I thought K-pop stars had it rough.

I have such respect for how she asks hard questions but still shows respect. I think she is wonderful

This was seriously refreshing! Keep up the good work! Represent!

My parents constantly asked me why aren't there more "Christian songs" on my phone. This video helped me realized why - that the music has always been bland, formulaic. Give me a song that is musically or lyrically interesting and I'll listen.

Christian music is SO similar and identifiable, when a Christian song breaks into top 40 I can IMMEDIATELY tell it's a worship song before I ever hear the reference to God (the ones that hit top 40 are always veeerry removed from that doctrine language).

Thank you so much. As a black man who is LGBTQ+ I needed to hear and see this. I’ve survived a lot of things in my life including the pain of church not accepting me for my true identity.

I love this docu-clip so much. In addition to agreeing with what's in this clip, I think that many Christian musicians are performing in church services because it's a stardom thing not a true "worship" thing. Is that okay? Imagine if a Pastor won a Grammy for best spoken word sermon. Kind of ridiculous. Like so much of American Christianity it's not at all genuine. Loved the "starter packs" described here! This is a great overdue video.

It’s really sad how some Christians have to make everything sexual when it really isn’t. It really shows where your mind is if it always goes there. It’s like, I guess you can see it that way but it’s not.

"If you are constantly singing 'I am not worthy', that is your meditation." Wow.

"If it IS hot pink you should see a doctor" Took the words right out of my mouth. If my baby batter was ever yellow or blue or pink I would be VERY worried.

Well done production. Very professional and content heart felt.

this was really interesting, but I think a BIG part of the missing story is race - gospel music was invented by Black people, and the overwhelming whiteness of popular Christian music is not a neutral fact! I would love to see you guys expand this story to include that!

A woman is tempting you? I seem to remember Jesus saying to “pluck your own eye out.” In essence, it’s a you problem, not a me problem bro

The starter packs had me dying 🤣 Worship is hard for me right now. Not only cause most worship music played in church is boring and formulaic, but also it is tough when you know how organized a worship service is. My husband was in the worship band and they would control every move he made onstage. "Don't lift your hands to worship here at the beginning. But once the chorus hits raise your hand. Close your eyes during this part" etc. It was so strange and now I always wonder if those leading worship are actually worshipping or thinking "oh yeah I must look really into it right now". That, plus some band members being in it for personal fame instead of wanting to serve God/church, is why we left that church.

The pen being used as a capo is so relatable, hahahahaa 😂 4:15

"if you sing over and over that you are unworthy, then that's your meditation." wow. got chills. what a powerful being!

That ten minute worm song is actually really good . I SWEAR I’ve heard it before 😂💛 . Absolutely love your content .

Historically, Christian music has always been an industry when you consider music dating from the Classical era, Baroque era, or even the renaissance era. There were even more limitations on music back then ( ex. limits on instruments, chords, keys, or melodic notation), so it’s not surprising that there are still such extreme and damaging limitations in the industry today (at least to me). Although there have been major improvements since the beginning of Christian worship music, we still have a lot more work to be done. Also, I would love to see interviews with Black Christian artists since the music is very different from what was shown in this video. Overall, this video was very well done, the interviews were professional, respectful, but also brought up some good conversations that the church needs to be a part of.

"For me, music is about finding community through shared human experiences, when a song gives voice to something you thought that no one else could possibly understand." I LOVE this, Grace! Personally, for me-- especially as I was ending my teen years and entering my twenties-- this was Elliott Smith. His songs really spoke to struggles myself and those I knew were going through, such as: existential angst, addiction, love +loss, depression, anxiety, introversion, wearing a mask around others, etc. I had never felt so understood in my life. The feeling to understand and be understood is a beautiful thing. Especially as, he's not with us anymore. Yet, his music and lyrics transcend time and speak to the human existence, especially to those of us who have struggled/ are struggling with addiction to street druqs.

The last time I attended church an old man called me a “punk” because I had long hair. I told him “only god can pass judgement on me.” And never returned to that church. Those people miss the point.

"If it is hot pink, you should see a doctor" killed me. Literally spat out my tea and nearly woke the hubs up.

I remember when Christian dubstep started to be a thing, and I was so happy because it was finally Christian music that broke out of the same old stuff, and often had different themes that felt more real. Now I realize that some of that came out of things like Christian metal and alternative styles, but at the time Soundcloud was new, and it was a place where people could try new things. I've been a fan of Eleventyseven for a while, a Christian pop-punk band that's gone in a different direction after going indie, and they had some great insights into the issues. Five Iron Frenzy's newer stuff and journey was really eye opening as well. I worked at a church run summer camp a few times, and we were basically told to pander to the most conservative attendees (mostly during family camp), and it was really hard. It was like, what you wear, what you sing, what you do... It was a very difficult mindset to promote, and hard to know what to do. I'm genderqueer/agender, and I love music, I've always wanted to write songs (I've only done a few), but it's hard to get all the parts of me to work together. Thankfully after finding an online group of trans and non-binary Christians, I've realized that there's a difference between Christianity in terms of the set of beliefs, vs the culture that seen as Christian, like CCM, Pureflix, etc. I've never fit the "ideal Christian" whether that be due to gender, ADHD, or disability, and it's taken me a lot of searching, and separating society from beliefs, from internal biases, to come to terms with who I am, and what I believe. But I'm glad I made that journey, and found some great supportive Christians along the way. I just wish it wasn't so hard to do. Although looking back, Jars of Clay was always more relatable than other bands like Casting Crowns, and it's interesting to see the ways they've had things play out in this world where everything seems to be politicized. I have the CD of Inland, and often put that in my stereo when I need to have a safe place, and none of the current CCM does that. The most popular Christian artist I still listen to is Matthew Parker, and that's because he does something different with being more EDM focused, and I've been following his stuff for around 10 years at this point. I actually heard him in Michael's craft store a couple years ago.

well done, and thanks for your open heart and want to communicate and understand. you are all worthy and appreciated:)

Solution: let Christ be in the music..instead of forcing the music into "Christianity."

Some people want riches, fame and awards & acknowledgement from their peers. All I want to hear is "Well done my good and faithful servant"

Thank you for sharing!

Many genres of music have been considered "subversive", in that they challenged societal norms. The rock of the 1960's often raged against the war in Vietnam, advocated sexual freedom, or challenged the consumerism of that period. Punk rock, and grunge similarly challenged societal expectations of behavior. Christian Contemporary Music's main purpose seems to be to reenforce the conformity of Conservative Christian culture, and discourage any deviation or questioning. Using music this way in other countries or cultures, it would be labelled propaganda and mind control.

"Can't you see you're not making Christianity better? You're just making Rock N Roll worse."- Hank Hill

I'm surprised Jennifer Knapp wasn't mentioned or interviewed for this. She was a highly acclaimed Christian singer-songwriter in the late 90s/early 2000s who left the industry at the height of her popularity and came out as gay in 2010.

Being in a Christian church is toxic if they think you're built wrong. I joined a Born-Again Christian church when I was 20, and I was invited by an artist that I admired. It was great at first, the music really inspired me, and through the songs, I was able to understand I was loved by God. But I got out there as fast as I can cos the people are just too much for me. I have retained my faith, but I don't believe I have to stay with those people to talk to Him.

One of my favorite movie lines is from Hannah and Her Sisters. Frederick (played by Max von Sydow) proclaims “If Jesus were alive today and saw what they are saying in his name, he would never stop throwing up."

When they made up that song and music video, I was in stitches because it was so dang accurate.

That purity culture stuff really impacted and messed with a lot of us during our formative years

Wonderful interview.

you got my thumbs up at the 12:50 mark. good job. thank you.

That fake music video really got me 😂

When I was 11 years old I was walking home from school through the snow. I had on a purple sweatshirt with matching sweat pants. The last period of the day was gym and so I decided to keep the sweat pants on to keep my legs warm on the walk home. The pastor of the church my family and I attended so happened to be driving by and offered me a ride home. What I thought was just a nice gesture would soon turn out to be one of the most pivotal moments of my life which would ultimately cause a wedge between my faith and the thing I loved to do ...sing. The pastor spoke to my mom about how the bible states that women should dress like women and that me wearing sweatpants was clearly against the “code”. That Sunday I was not given the opportunity to join the worship team after the sermon and the pastor intentionally ignored me whenever I came into church. At 11 years old I was excluded from the one place where I felt I could be myself. Prior to that incident I had been singing on worship teams for 3 years including attending summer missionary trips to spread the love of Christ through music. It wasn’t long after that experience I began refusing to go to church and 4 years later I came out the closet to my mother. Things didn’t get better for me and I spent much of my teens and early twenties battling depression. I felt alone and had lost any respect for religion and those who “represented” christianity. It wasn’t until a couple of years ago while driving to work, I tuned into a christian radio station and all those good feelings came rushing back to me. I realized singing worship was not something I needed permission to do and that I could do it anytime and anywhere. That moment I decided to work on my relationship with God because no person or church could separate me from Him.The key to that relationship has always been and will always be music! I am now married to a wonderful woman and we have a child together. We also pray together and she doesn’t mind me singing elevation worship songs at the top of my lungs. Thank you for shedding light on this issue in christian music and I hope this brings validation to other as it has done for me. Thank You!

The question isn’t the problem, its the fact that “you are complicit in the exclusion.” Well put! And bravo, Jars of Clay. They are the one Christian band I actually had a CD from. Proud of them!

Very thought-provoking piece. I've always felt like the Christian music industry is a wing of the church that magnifies the message that the church leaders want to be put forward, rather than being free to use their platform to bring awareness to the many inequities/hypocrisies within the church. Which is really quite sad. The change would need to come from the top which is not likely to happen as the church leadership gets increasingly entrenched in right-wing politics. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable. - Brennan Manning

Question: Why is white Christian music called "Christian music" and black Christian music called "Gospel"? (My reason for the question is outside the U.S..we call all Christian music "Gospel". but coming to the States, I was confused by the labeling. I have learned a lot from some of the comments)

The "you rescue me" part of your impromptu song was well harmonized 👍🏼

Outstanding. Grace, you are amazing. 💕

The mistake is assuming worship or "Christian" music is ever about the artist or the listener. It's all about worshiping God and reflecting him. At least, that's what it should be about.

GOD HONORING ANGST! If my mom knew she could have done that with my emo phase it would have been over for me lol

I know this is a year old, but the coincidence of the timing is awesome. I’m moving and going through my stuff and found a Newsboys baseball hat. They were the first concert I ever went to. I thought ‘no one would even know who this is if I showed them.’

It's wild watching this in 2024 right after "Saints of Nevada" is released... Grace, you're not going to buy that album... you're going to make it...

confession: I was a worship leader and YA Assistant lead of the whole worship department directly under the two department heads (i had an office and everything) and served in church leadership literally from age 10 to 21. When I was 18, I was at the height of my leadership and set to be grown as the next Leader of the Worship department. something I’d been working for for nearly 10 years, helping build the church from a single location as it grew into a multi campus mini mega church. My close friend at the time had just turned 18 that year. There was a 34 year old man who was the lead guitarist that I played with weekly, and knew well. He was a manager at the place she worked, and coerced her into having sex with him on work property. SHE WAS 18 AND HE WAS 34! AND HE WAS MARRIED. he was revered among the team as a wholesome and fun guy, and I had to keep this secret as she asked me to protect her identity and He wondered why I suddenly hated him. I went to church one week I wasn’t singing, and I was with her. WE RAN INTO HIM AND HIS WIFE and it was the most uncomfortable thing ever. quickly after the encounter, she ran to the bathroom and cried as I comforted her. They to this day have had no reason to look into the weirdness that occurred. Another time, I came to an elder, knowing full well I should be able to confide in them especially due to my involvement in the church. I cried in shame as I told them that I kissed a girl for the first time and I was afraid of going to hell because I thought I was bisexual. I was slowly ostracized and pushed out. I know that if some of the leaders were aware they would have never tolerated it, but the fact that after 12 years of my life I just splintered off and was struggling and wasn’t even reached out to. my father built the church with his own hands, put hours of labor into building the campuses out of his love for God. our family fell apart. and no one reached out. This is the problem. The church needs to protect the congregation, but how can they if they don’t even protect their leaders? I have so many more stories. I am thinking of starting a channel or blog to share them, so that others who have suffered from similar things in the church and felt abandonment from them can feel a little less alone.... I’m so sorry to anyone else who has been hurt by the church they’ve grown so much since then but it still breaks my heart that they didn’t do what the could to protect us then thank you Grace for what you do.

I left the Toxicity of the church. I never, ever left God.. x

I so enjoyed this. Thank you for showing the "Christian" music industry; warts and all.

I was told decades ago by multiple CMA winner I knew well in Nashville, that they call it the music business and never forget that the emphasis is on the word business.

Honestly, this all sounded like a cult to me. The over policing of the artists, turning their back on followers who just voiced their beliefs, even the labels given to their audience!

Evangelicals: "As Christians we value truth and honesty." LGBTQ Christians: "Okay, I'm LGBTQ." Evangelicals: "No."

Omg why am I hearing Cartman singing that 10 minute song? 😂

Thank you. With experience in this world I give a nod.

Oh wow so this is why Jars of Clay was out of circulation. Man I gotta listen to their music now. The vocalist is an ally 😍

I cried when the lead singer from Jars of Clay got emotional and apologised to Grace. He really heard her and understood how messed up that must have been for her. This series is so important.

@ 3:49. I thought the 'I Am the Worm' worship song was king of cool. I was really impressed with how quickly you guys put it together. Maybe creativity comes when we're not trying too hard, when we're just playing around with a concept and a melody. Having some talent to back it up helps...

Interesting video!

Honestly, I want my Christian artist to be real. I want to know about their faith struggles, their depression, and how God is there for them throughout the battle. It’s part of the reason why I’ve been looking to other forms of Christian music, instead of what’s being played on the radio

The dark reality is when you shift your focus from God to the music

Jars of Clay was my favorite band growing up. I always felt that their music was all inclusive and came from a place of genuine love for people. Creating an open dialogue and having an open mind is so important. Most, not all, Christians I speak with that are older don't like the questions that stem from the open dialogue. They don't want to speak to anything that could tarnish the 'Holier than thou' or 'squeaky clean' mentality. Thank you for creating the dialogue. Your countenance is so sweet and compassionate. Don't ever lose that

Did you guys complete and release that 2nd song?? I would love to hear the finished product. Please ! The same can be said for R&B and POP labels. (now it’s trendy to support and LGBTQIA artist) but in the (90’s) I was let go of a label because I wanted to come out!!! And had an album shelved which is still sitting in their vault…. It was not out at 16-19. I didn’t even get who I was and totally into CMM Worship songs but liked and did things like being a male cheerleader in HS and I loved to flip and dance, so they put me an artsy box. I had people I’d known or been friends with half my life totally turn on me when I started asking questions why should I “HATE” anyone because of who they loved. It came to a point that I had to be me and FREE. I stopped singing worship songs because they were self-deprecating and totally negative. I wrote a-lot of love for all and GOD is for everyone. I was raised in a Black South Baptist church and was lucky to have a grandfather (Pastor) who taught us our relationship with the LORD is ours and he only cared that we had a relationship. He loved Unconditionally and was not one of those I’ll love you on my terms (which often meant to hate the sin not the sinner). Don’t miss those people at all. BUT CARRY MY GPOP with me daily…I am living my best full free life of love and happily married to my soul mate. (My dude). The solution to this is for people to stop interpreting the word of GOD for their comfort and for their small lives and understand the bigger picture is spreading love on to all for all.

The Church is not acting like Jesus..he says come as u are

this is veryyyyy white....

“The artist's task is to save the soul of mankind; and anything less is a dithering while Rome burns. Because of the artists, who are self-selected, for being able to journey into the Other, if the artists cannot find the way, then the way cannot be found.” - T McKenna

Just discovered this video today March 20, 2022...super glad I clicked on the comments to sort by "newest first" because some of those "popular comments"...be careful of the popular opinion. Just, be careful.

I'm an atheist but I a lot of times when I bring up the question of LGBTQ+ rights to Christians I talk to they get annoyed at me for always bringing up the "gay issue" cause belief is about so much more. Uhm if you can't talk about the issues and discrimination in your own church then why should I even listen to all your fluff fluff happy talk trying to convince me I should dedicate my whole life to Jesus?

I think if a ‘christian brother’ stumbles over an inch of skin and such things it is their own fault and shortcoming

Being a progressive metal type guitar player, if I pray before sitting down to write or just jam. I usually end up playing some very cool heavy riff that I came up with. Some of the stuff is pretty eerie but ends kind of bright and cheerful. Sometimes it start cheerful and becomes dark. I simply want to reflect what I feel at that moment. The song isn't a reflection of my faith. I am human, I am happy, sometimes sad, and sometimes angry.

There's nothing worse then hearing a song on the radio that starts cool and then the lyrics kick in like "Jesus..." click. Lol.

Man as someone who’s a Christian, it just makes me so sad to see how close minded people in this community can be!!:( We need more attainable role models in this community who represent every single group. I’m straight and felt I couldn’t live up to the standards put before me as a teen, so I can’t even imagine the treatment and judgement I would have received if I’d come out as LGBTQ. Really sad because the whole religion is supposed to be about love and acceptance.

The part where the first musician gave an account of how men criticized her for showing a smidge of skin when she was raising your hands, I'm just embarrassed that fellow men would criticize women for ''tempting'' instead of the guy should see her as a human being.

Great video! To me your first song was kind of kichy, meaning it was on point with a good chord progression, and all the catch phrases for mass marketed Christian music, but it felt to me like it lacked sincerity. However, the second song, while it didn’t come so easily, gave me goosebumps. God loves all of his children, every color, ever creed, etc, etc, etc. It is not for us to judge one another but to love one another! God bless and keep being you!

I'm currently thinking of a song with a chorus that goes, "Your love to me is wonderful, surpassing the love of women. Your love to me is wonderful, so much wonderful than life."

I’d always thought Christian and Gospel were the same till I moved to the States and started attending my local, majority-black church. I think this video reinforces this distinction, in that I see the subject matter more related to Christian music than gospel music.

I feel like a lot of these points can also be applied to the Christian film industry: there's a formula; the storyline is bland; no one is truly struggling with their faith or questioning anything in a meaningful way...I always think those films are made with the idea that the local church is going to take their youth group to see it, so it can't be TOO real.

Just brilliant!

The section where they make the generic worship song was amazing. So transparently predictable and cliche… all the typical beats are there to produce the desired results. Just pour the ingredients into the mold and the priming is perfectly distilled.

I think it needs to be clear this is white Christian music which is really just inspired by black music..like all American music is. Larry Norman did not make Christian rock popular. Arguably Sister Rosetta Tharp did when she thought gospel to the main stream. A black LGBTQ woman. This is a really interesting story and has important information but feels really white washed?

When you take God's love and truth away from Christian music, all that's left is religion. The Glory of God is tainted and commercialised, no wonder his presence has left. The music is supposed to be used to worship God, not people.

I love this!!! ... Thank You for sharing! ... God IS LOVE. That's all we need to realize :-)

I was a Nashville musician for a long time, and when I first came to town I was advised to get paid up front if I went to work for any christian/gospel groups, (which I didn't) as they were known to stiff their employees.

Why can't the songs just be about worshipping Jesus for Who HE is...??? Just gotta look at Him. It's not about us, we are called to give up ourselves....

That Mumford and sons comparison finished me

We cannot pick and choose which sins we will obstained from and which we will indulge, and expect God's approval. All sin in our lives breaks His heart because He loves us and died for us. Leave your life of sin, abstain, seek His strength. The Holy Spirit is able where we are not.