When I was 7yo and being taught traffic lessons by mom+dad, I was told "Always dismount the bicycle at a crosswalk and walk it across--if you walk it across, you're a pedestrian, but if you are mounted you're just another vehicle on the road". 50 years ago mom+dad knew this.
Have always been under the impression bicycles are considered slow traffic and are supposed to follow the same rules as a driver. Stop at intersections and lights
Tell that to the little kids on bikes going 5 mph. "F those runts, it's my road and I'm in the right". I've seen JA not yielding to little kids on bikes, F those JA.
in Oregon, the general rule is that a bicycle on the sidewalk is subject to pedestrian law, and a bicycle on the roadway is subject to motor vehicle law. of course, there are specific rules related to bicycles, as well. there is a new rule that stop signs and red lights are optional.
They do, but that is because the laws were made for cars and then applied to cyclists withought consideration of the fact that cyclists on a road are closer to pedestrians in volnurability. Also, cyclists travel at low speeds that are easier to react at, compared to car speeds, especially putting into consideration beter "view" of the suroundings on the bike (both visually and audibly). Because in vast majoroty of cases drivers don't folow laws when interacting with cyclists and regulary break traffic laws that result in putting cyclists in harms way (when they are lucky), it is often safer for cyclists to bypass certain traffic laws to keep them self safe.
@@kenbrown2808 Things might have changed now but by drivers ed in my state in the 80s, technically, bicycles were not allowed on sidewalks, they were for pedestrians, not cyclists. Bicycles were subject to the same laws as cars.
I have a lot of issues with how some cyclists try to take advantage of being considered a vehicle and being a pedestrian whenever what suits them better. I've seen cyclists using a bike lane or even a normal road lane as if they are any other vehicle, but then they come to a crosswalk that goes to a sidewalk and they will cut in front of traffic, acting like they instantaneously changed to being a pedestrian and vehicles must yield to them now. Or using the road normally, but when they come to a red light they hop up onto a sidewalk to cross the road. It is easy for them to be going 2-3 times as fast as a pedestrian and to maintain that speed while going through crosswalks and there can be very little time where they are visible to drivers before they enter the crosswalk.
That's WHY you ride a bike, though. Because of the versatile. It's not we can do 75 mph. We're not hermetically sealed in our luxury living rooms on wheels. There's gotta be some benefits
I'm na avid cyclist and i agree. I haven't rode on the road in a long time and stick to trails, but cyclists often think they control everything when they are a danger to people on foot and a liability to motorists
When I was a kid, I was walking through a parking lot with my father. We stopped for a car and I turned to my dad and asked, “don’t pedestrians have the right of way?” (I had heard that recently and felt pretty proud of my new big word). Ever the bubble-burster, my dad simply responded, “yep… and they always lose.”
See, now, that's a fella who understands two things. 1: Inertia's a thing (just because a driver can _see_ you doesn't mean they can stop...if they can see you. Blind spots are a thing, too.), and 2: You can never tell when someone's going to do something incredibly...stupid.
@nightrunnerxm393 Drivers also generally have much more to watch out for than pedestrians. Cross traffic, turning traffic, cars backing out of parking spaces or pulling away from the curb (or opening doors). Even other pedestrians. I'd f far rather take a few seconds to wait or go around than get squashed.
@@briant7265 On the contrary, pedestrians have to be concerned about each of those things. And they have to be wary of the significant population of drivers who simply pretend pedestrians don’t exist.
Yeah, that was my thought. This appears one of those areas where the laws were written one way and never updated after the adoption of the ADA, but as soon as it saw a court room, the ADA would overrule the state law - whether the law was changed afterwards or not.
The ADA is federal law superceding state, county and municipal codes. It is a civil rights law, requiring recognition and inclusion of those with disabilities by businesses and by governments.
No court in the world is going to rule the same way for a wheelchair as cyclists blazing into the street. If it's really a problem, they can change that bit without giving cyclists the "right" to pretend to be pedestrians when convenient.
In theory, but remember how contemptuous our country is people with disabilities. There's a significant minority of this country that's just sadistic, especially toward anyone who isn't just like them.
We were all taught in Cub scouts, and again in Boy Scouts, that you get off your bike and WALK IT across a cross walk. Now watching this, I feel that those lessons were all the more important.
This is why we're taught to walk a bicycle across a crosswalk. The actual issue here is the SPEED that someone enters and traverses a crosswalk at, and whether a driver can reasonably be expected to react in time.
It's not really the speed at the crosswalk, it's the speed on the sidewalk. I scan down the block for things moving at foot speed, not significantly further down the block for things moving a cycling speeds. Which is also why I don't ride (fast) on sidewalks. Between intersections and driveways there are too many places where a car can pull into my path without seeing me because I'm too far away for their pedestrian scan to notice me.
Exactly. On a dashcam channel, there was a clip where a driver making a left turn on green hit a cyclist who came out of nowhere and flew through the crosswalk at high speed. If you re-watched the clip, when the driver (stopped while waiting for a break in oncoming cars) began to move, the bicycle was on the sidewalk about 100 ft away from the intersection, partially hidden from view by a light post, trash can, and mailbox (you could only see his head). He was moving faster than the turning car, so it would actually be more accurate to say the cyclist hit the car, not the other way around.
I am curious if the couple that was involved were riding perpendicular to the road and in a blind spot for the driver until they entered the right of way
In Massachusetts cyclists are required to follow motor vehicle laws, including not driving your vehicle on a cross walk. If you want to use a crosswalk with a bike, you need to push it.
That's the way sane states do it. Cyclists can be really annoying especially if moving fast, ignoring traffic laws even when they're not suppose to, riding in the middle of the road, zipping across crosswalks to bypass the lights (if for no other reason _this_ is why cyclists should not have the right of way in a crosswalk), etc. Difficult to predict what some crazy person will do assuming they have the right of way.
@@_droidHere in Colorado they recently changed the law to allow bicyclists to run stop signs (so long as it's safe for them). I had always learned that as a cyclist, I am treated the same as a motor vehicle, and should obey the same laws.
@@beauthestdane That's a common misconception, but no, bikes in Colorado can't just run stop sings. What they're allowed to do is simply treat the stop sign as if it's a yield sign. Big difference.
@@maskydoo7871 That is why I said, if it is safe... Yes, they can treat it as a yield sign, which means they are not required to stop at it if they deem it safe to proceed. In practice, that means they just run stop signs even more so than before the law was passed.
In California, the state left most laws regarding bikes up to local governments. In my city its a ticketable offense for someone to ride their bike on a sidewalk. They are also supposed to follow the same rules of the road as vehicle traffic. Have nearly been hit when walking by people flying up behind me on a bike, on the sidewalk, and the wrong side of the road. The problem is a lot of police in my area won't bother enforcing it unless its something tacked onto something else.
CA explicitly defines bicycles as vehicles and requires that they follow "vehicle" laws. Local governments may (and do) build on that, and often use some judgment in enforcement.
Part of this may come from police ignorance. Like I've had the odd experience of being on a street *posted* that riding a bicycle on the sidewalk isn't allowed, and there's a local law barring sidewalk riding over a certain age (that was much younger than me at the time) and a *cop* told me to ride on the sidewalk. At night. On a road I was going around the speed limit on.
As an older fellow, I may not be remembering things properly, but I remember taking the California written test and it saying that crosswalks are for foot traffic only. Others could use the crosswalk, but they had to dismount-be on foot. Dismount your bicycle, horse, etc…
As a kid growing up in Michigan, I remember being told in school that you should always walk and push your bicycle when crossing the street. I didn't always follow this rule.
We teach kids to be safe. It doesn't always line up with their legal rights. Legally, they are a pedestrian with the same right-of-way as any other pedestrian. But that "right" doesn't make them more visible to drivers. I'd rather teach them to stop and look all ways before crossing.
The rule here is your not allowed to ride across the road unless in a bike lane. Its not just for safety in dealing with cars but also the potential of the road/sidewalk concrete having issues/pot holes that could cause you to fall off in the road.
This is still the case most anywhere. You're also normally required to walk your bike if you're on a sidewalk. There is a bike path near me that crosses main roads in a few places, and there are signs denoting that you do not need to walk your bike across those specific crosswalks as an exception was carved out in the law for them. You ARE required to yield to cyclists who are in an intersection legally, however if you're not walking the bike through the crosswalk, except where it is signed that you can ride across, you are not in the intersection legally, and therefore are not afforded the same protection as pedestrians.
@@LuckyCharms777 I think Steve brought it up. There are many trails that are for walkers, joggers, rollerbladers, bicyclists, etc. that do utilize cross walks to get across roads.
In the Netherlands it's commonly known that vehicles by law don't need to stop for cycles at a crosswalk, I'm surprised they are protected in some US states. I'm really surprised though that wheelchairs aren't protected in this situation though.
@@mr65136 There are more than enough places in the Netherlands where bikes need to reed either on the car road (in villages) or on a pedestrian sidewalk (markets and centers of cities). There are also more than enough bike-riders that just go across a crosswalk because they feel entitled to it.
So you would protect one two wheel device but not the other? If a bicycle is a vehicle then so is any other device equipped with 2 or more wheels. Therefore they should abide by traffic laws at minimum for slow traffic. Might as well add in single wheel devices. This would likely need an improved sub section covering sidewalks and crosswalks connected to them.
@@1014p Over here only pedestrians have full protection at a crosswalk and in most cases sidewalks are only allowed for pedestrians. If bicycles want to cross the road, they should go to an intersection or use special crosswalks connected to the cycling-roads. And even then 99% of the time, they must give priority to all traffic on the "normal" road before they can cross.
@@chillout1984 So that does not address the wheel chair point I was making. However I am curious about the bicycles. So your laws require them to either follow road laws or use designated cross routes? Around here there are occasional bike lanes and otherwise it is to pretend you are a car. I see most of the time bikes are on the road side and rarely on the side walks. Which is different from how CA types were with quite a few basically riding through people. It was kind of irritating to see to be honest, but I understood why as motorists tended to not pay attention.
Several years ago, Ohio passed a law banning bicycles, skateboards, and rollerblades for sidewalks as as "hazard for pedestrians". Afterwards, a 10 year old girl on a bike ran into my sister's car as she was backing out of my drive. Her parents threatened to sue me stating my hedge was too high according to city ordinance. I pointed out to them that she was illegally riding her bike on the sidewalk and had she been in the street where she belonged, the accident wouldn't have happened. The girl was only scuffed up a bit..
The kid is innocent, and I don’t fault a kid for riding her bike on a residential sidewalk. She should have been paying attention, but she’s a kid. Kids do things, get hurt, learn, don’t do thing again. Her parents on the other hand might be entitled idiots.
That has to be a local law, it says right now on the ohio DMV website that "Under state law, people are allowed to ride bicycles and E-bikes, if the motor is not engaged, on the sidewalk." Direct quote. It also states that in many localities that ban people from riding bicycles on the sidewalk, they still allow children under a certain age to ride on the sidewalks.
My state allows it (sidewalk riding) at the state level, and leaves it up to individual localities if they want to regulate it differently. My city permits it as well, but prefers people ride on bike lanes where they are available. It seems to be a good balance.
The bicycle thing I can almost see - because they're supposed to 'follow the rules of the road' like motor vehicles. They're not supposed to use crosswalks. Unless you're walking the bike. But the wheelchairs and such? Those should be protected.
@@markwistey2802 That's fundamentally an infrastructure problem but if you're too scared to ride your bike like you're supposed to then maybe don't ride a bike.
@LeCharles07 wtf does this mean? Im pretty sure they were talking about the drivers who get angry when a cyclist rides on a road, some of whom go out of their way to harass cyclists.
The horse and buggy being a pedestrian in Michigan seems interesting. I seem to remember someone in a horse and buggy being charged with OWI somewhere sometime back.
I think those laws regarding crossings not only include the typical urban pedestrian crossings, but also paths or trails. So, it makes sense to include horses and bicycles if you're legally allowed to use a crossing while mounting.
Full disclosure. I live in the UK, so yes, different country different rules/laws. Here, a "crosswalk" is specifically called a *pedestrian crossing* and is only allowed to be used by pedestrians (which includes parents pushing children in prams or push chairs (I think you call them buggies). Riding bicycles or scooters (manually or electrically propelled are not allowed to use them. They are to behave the same way as motorists and "yield" to *pedestrians* either on or showing intention to use the crossing.
@@beatadalhagen Roller skates are a bit of an anomaly. They can be used on both pavements (sidewalks) (taking care of walking pedestrians) and on roads. However... If you're skating on the pavement, you're classed as a pedestrian. If you're skating on the road, you're classed as a road user and must follow all rules including stopping at pedestrian crossings to allow pedestrians (including those on roller skates) to cross. Yeah! Confusing, I know.
My issue with it is that bicyclists want it both ways. They want to be vehicles when it's convenient but then also be pedestrians when it comes to traffic lights, stop signs, crosswalks, etc.
It gets worse with the recumbent bikes...and the abject idiots who refuse to put flags on them. There was a stupid case where there was a completely blind corner and a retired cop hit someone on one...biker got killed, but there was zero way to see it there due to bushes and other things and the moron was on the sidewalk and didn't even stop to cross there.
I wanted a speed-split for bicycles. Under 10mph acts as pedestrian, over 10mph acts as car. I'm not sure of the exact number but that should be close. 25mph is clearly too high while 5mph is too low.
@@AzraelThanatosJust an FYI "biker" is reserved to mean someone on a motorcycle, while "cyclist" or is the term for someone on a bicycle. There's a man who rides a recumbent bicycle in my neighborhood without any flags (which are required by law where I live) and has somehow avoided being struck by motorists several times, but in each of those incidents it was by very narrow nargins. I saw a garbage truck miss him by literally the width of a hair. I'm just waiting for the day I see or get the news that he's been injured or worse.
In these situations, especially when a pedestrian/cyclist, I always remember the advice my Grandad gave me when I was learning to drive "always give way to something bigger than you".
I remember back in the 1970's being taught that you should dismount from your bicycle and walk it across intersections. I never knew anybody who actually did this, but it was in the safety information.
I live in AZ and had an incident where I almost hit a bicyclist while making a left turn. I reviewed my dash cam to figure out how this had almost happened. It turned out that the bicyclist was down the sidewalk a ways from the intersection riding fast and after I was more then half way through my left turn, she rode off the curb, into the street directly in front of my path. She had to have seen me coming and had she stopped and dismounted, I would have been past before she entered the street. Because of her speed, it was impossible for me to see or know what she had planed when I left the stop sign legally, and it was only due to her speed that I was unable to see her coming sooner. This is why bicyclist are required to walk their bikes in a pedestrian crosswalk in Arizona. Had that couple come to a stop in Tucson, dis mounted and walked across, the accident would not likely have happened. However if it did, they would have been protected as pedesian's. I grew up riding bikes in Maryland and we always dismounted and walked in crosswalks. In the school zone where some kids would try to ride with the pedestrian's, the crossing guards would yank them off their bikes and send them home with a ticket for dangerous bike riding. It did not have a fine but to get their bike back, their parents had so show up and sign the complaint. Several walked for a few days and no one ever tried it twice.
Imagine if you had to cross 100 blocks and got on and off your bike 100 times. Bikes use the road way just like your automobile. They are suppose to follow the traffic laws the same. The getting on and off your bike is BS.
This right here is the exact reason why bike riders should not be protected on a cross walk. They should dismount and travel at walking speed if they want these protections. More likely, they should just slow down and look both ways instead of dismounting. But if they want the protection of the cross walk, they need to be on foot. Imagine driving a car across 100 intersections and having to stop every time you approach a crosswalk just in case some bike rider jumps out of nowhere with a sudden right of way.
it's why in Oregon it is specifically illegal for a cyclist to pass a vehicle inside the turn it is signaling or making. - note it is also illegal for a vehicle to pass a bicyclist and then make a turn across their path.
Often-times crosswalks are for areas with sidewalks where bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalks. Bicycles are generally expected to follow vehicle traffic laws. I wouldn't expect a car to drive down a crosswalk. But I agree with wheelchair being an odd omission.
Yeah, wheelchair should be included. My understanding is that because a bicycle is considered a vehicle in most states, they are expected to follow traffic laws as a vehicle instead. In that case, if you are on a road that isn't safe for a bicycle, you would want to walk it across the crosswalk so you can be considered a pedestrian.
Another aspect of this to look into on these cases.. I had someone ride up to a crosswalk that crossed a street I was on. The trail to the crosswalk has trees so you can't see the trail from the road, and you don't see people waiting to cross until you are very close. The person was on a bike, hit the cross walk button to activate the lights, and less than a second later jet across the road on his bike without even waiting for traffic to react. I nearly hit the guy, but was luckily able to stop in time while my ABS was kicking in. No, I wasn't distracted, and yes, I was doing the speed limit. The guy just expected traffic to instantly come to a stop for him within a second of hitting the button that activates the lights.
This happens in the UK. The problem is pedestrians & bi cyclists have been given higher priority than vehicles.. And more laws.. Problem now is the the pedestrians and cyclists think vehicle should yield all the time..but not take into consideration a vehicles speed and ability to stop (stopping distance).. . Pedestrians in the UK just simply walk across crosswalks - they don't wait for the traffic or stop.ike we were taught at school .
@stuartd9741 and this is why I follow right of weight rather than right of way, I recall my father telling me it doesn't matter if you were in the right in an accident if you are dead.
The law should definitely apply for all valid user of crosswalks, but anyone who thinks a bit of paint and a law is going to stop a vehicle is a moron waiting for evolution to take its course and remove them from the gene pool. There's not much the government can do about people who walk into the road while staring at their phones, but crosswalks should be designed to provide visibility for both users and vehicles. That still isn't going to do much for joggers, cyclists, skaters, or people on scooters who approach the crosswalk at rapid speeds. Traffic laws to help protect people are find, bu personal responsibility will always be important.
In Minnesota bicycles are considered the same as cars in statute. Bicycles have a rolling stop exemption in statute so they don’t have to stop at an intersection if no other vehicles are present. When they ride through an intersection here in the crosswalk it would be the same as a car driving through it.
Several years ago, we were less than 6" from getting run over while crossing the street in a crosswalk....... by a Sherriff's deputy!!! The ass actually had the gall to come back and lecture my wife for yelling at him as he did it, saying something about what kind of example we were setting for our young children (that he almost killed), showing such disrespect to a LEO..... I called the department the next day to report it, but I'm sure it was dismissed out of hand.
The thing about crosswalks is that vehicles are supposed to yield to pedestrians _within_ the crosswalk, not those waiting to cross. And it’s the duty of pedestrians to not enter a crosswalk until it’s safe to do so.
@@LuckyCharms777 My comment is about when the pedestrian has the "Walk" signal. I get a lot of drivers doing a turn in front of me. I learned to ignore those signals and just wait for a safe opportunity.
It makes total sense On foot, you're going slowly, usually. A bike can pop out much much quicker. By the time you look left, then right, a bike can roll out faster than a pedestrian. It's a cross WALK
Yes, I have witnessed bicyclists, roller bladers, and skate boarders crossing at high speed totally irresponsibly. Motorized wheelchairs that only move at walking speed should be an exception, as long as they display a highly visible flag high above.
No, it does not make sense, because even when you drive responsibly and slowly across the road you still have no protections. Scooters, rollerblades, wheelchairs.... No protections at all....
it could be added to the "list of problems that other countries have long since solved but with which america alone continues to struggle" if one were able to find the end.
Just something unique to add to your story, this past spring someone completed the Cleveland marathon wearing cross country skis. There was no snow, and he was not very fast. I assume he would be a pedestrian at that point?
How a horse and buggy is covered but not a wheelchair just perfectly sums up the state of law in this country. The congresses are too busy pursuing agendas to bother to update the laws that haven't been updated in 100 years or pass new ones to deal with new technologies until problems are too big to ignore and seats be one at risk.
The issue I see too often is a bicyclist riding down the bike lane, then turning abruptly into the crosswalk and assuming the vehicles can stop that quick.
I'm confused. Bike lanes don't have crosswalks and if the cyclist turned into one why would a car be there? Bike lanes are a lane of traffic like a bus lane or a carpool lane and I've never seen one where you would have to turn in front of a car to make a right turn and if they're making a left across traffic without consideration they're just suicidal.
@@LeCharles07bike lanes are often on the right side of the road, cyclist when approaching a stoplight will hop onto the sidewalk or just turn onto crosswalk to skip the light. Sometimes without slowing down.
@@LeCharles07 I have seen bike lanes that go straight at an intersection, and there is a right turn lane For vehicles. so essentially the bike lane is in between two lanes of traffic. The presumption is that bikes would come out of the bike lane and use the right hand turn lane kind of dumb though.
@@james_crook what he's talking about is a cyclist that uses the road when it suits them, but then use the pedestrian paths of travel when it's convenient. When jumping into the crosswalk from the bike lane, they are running the red.
@@LeCharles07there are alot of cyclists that do some absurd things, I'm a cyclist myself and I've repeatedly seen other cyclists run stop signs, reds, and just blatantly jumping out in front of cars with zero regards for safety, it's like they don't understand the concept of momentum, a car can not stop on a dime, a bike can
We were always taught that when crossing a crosswalk you had to dismount a bike or horse and walk it across. Bicycles and horses are considered vehicles and must obey traffic laws if ridden. In my state there is no mention of skis or skates but I'd think that it would be included in the term "afoot." A clause was added to include things like Segways. This possibly could be extended to include electric scooters too but not gas-powered ones. However, to be safe you probably should walk your scooter across a crosswalk if it's just a recreational one and not needed for a disability. KS 8-1446. "Pedestrian" defined. "Pedestrian" means: (a) Any person afoot; (b) any person in a wheelchair, either manually or mechanically propelled, or other low powered, mechanically propelled vehicle designed specifically for use by a physically disabled person; or (c) any person using an electric personal assistive mobility device.
The only problem i see is the mention of “designed for a disabled person” which would potentially exclude conventional bikes. Though might not exclude trikes/etc.
I googled this info. According to California law, a pedestrian is defined as anyone on foot or using a mobility device such as a wheelchair. Under the same statute, the term pedestrian can refer to a person using a personal conveyance, such as a skateboard or roller blades. However, bicyclists are not considered pedestrians in California. Better walk that bike. A crosswalk is defined as a marked or unmarked crossing connecting sidewalks on opposite sides of a street or road. Painted lines typically indicate a marked crosswalk on the roadway. An unmarked crosswalk is an area where pedestrians can cross the road even if there are no markings. All intersections are considered crosswalks in California, whether marked or not.
There were local laws where I learned to drive, that as a pedestrian, you were required you to get OFF of your non-automobile and cross with your feet.
Covered in MS Miss. Code Ann. 63-3-121(d), pedestrian is defined as: any person afoot or a person who uses an electric personal assistive mobility device or a manual or motorized wheelchair. Thank you Brittany
I lived a cycled in Tucson for years and have seen too many close calls to negligent drivers. Tucson has many out of town people who drive like their home state not Arizona laws, so I always keep my head on a swivel while cycling. My condolences to their families.
In my state, it was told to me that bicycles are road vehicles and cannot legally use crosswalks without dismounting, or passing through it as a vehicle. Same goes for any wheeled vehicle (including skateboards and rollerblades) that isnt used for mobility devices. Everything but mobility device users are considered vehicles in my state. Horse and buggy included.
In some states there are laws specifically prohibiting the use of bicycles or other vehicles in crosswalks; meaning that if a cyclist is hit by a car in a crosswalk, most or all of the fault is placed on the cyclist.
this begs the question though, if you had to use something like a wheelchair or a powered scooter because you were disabled, couldn't the law be considered discriminatory and made void?
@@alexwaren2030 Having a disability does make the law rather illegal as it discriminates against the disabled, but bicyclists still have no excuse for riding like assholes and disobeying traffic law just because they feel entitled
@@alexwaren2030 I bet there are some provisions and exemptions for disabled people in their mobility devices such as wheel chairs or powered wheel chairs.
Is this only required when you are riding on the sidewalk. Bicycle use the road way and follow all traffic laws. Which would not require you to dismount if you are on the road way.
@@kameljoe21 Well, of course, it's only if you're riding on the sidewalk. In many areas, bicycles aren't allowed on sidewalks. They aren't where I live (unless the rider is under 12yo).
@@B_BodziakSame where I live in California,and from what I understand most places,and yes there is exceptions for minors. Which require you to dismount and walk the bicycle through the cross walk. Also I believe if you are bicycling on a public road way without a designated bicycle lane,you are required to obey the same laws as motorist,and if you have at least five vehicles behind you where there is a no passing zone,you are required to stop and let them pass.
@@kameljoe21 And if you're on the roadway, you're subject to traffic laws like a car. So, the bicycle shouldn't be in the pedestrian crosswalk and they would need to be yielding to lights/traffic like a car.
I'm pretty sure laws like that date from the age of the penny-farthing, which was genuinely difficult to stop safely without advance warning, and obsoleted by the "safety bicycle" in roughly the modern form. Of course, these sorts of laws were collected and reinforced during the car boom, when the motor industry lobbyists got pretty much anything they wanted.
Here's the thing ...if you are crossing at a crosswalk, always be aware of all vehicles in that area as you cross. Because no matter how many laws may be out there to legally protect you, physics doesn't care and you will lose. It is ultimately up to you to provide your own safety, as laws cannot guarantee this. Do not walk a crosswalk blindly assuming every car will stop .
As someone who spent a lot of time as a pedestrian I found that crosswalks were usually the worst place to cross a street safely. It just gives a false sense of security and plenty of vehicles will drive directly across your path just an inch or two in front of you. I find the safest place to usually be midway down a road where I can see from a far distance cars coming from both directions instead of all the nearby cars from four directions on an intersection. I know that is technically jaywalking but I rather get a ticket than get run over.
From IL, I was always taught that people on bikes are required to get off the bike and walk the bike across the crosswalk. Almost no one ever does it. In college, I saw a bicyclist make a quick left turn and ride directly into the crosswalk with no concern that I was coming. Luckily, I managed to stop in time. I read in the newspaper (am I dating myself, lol), another driver at the same crosswalk was not able to stop in time; I was fairly certain it was the same bicyclist.
In Illinois, people have been told the law says to get off the bicycle and walk it across the street in the crosswalk. Interestingly enough, bicycles are considered vehicles and must follow the same laws as motor vehicles.
Locally bicyclists will ride in the street (including bike lanes) legally, but then as soon as they get to a stop light they will immediately swerve over to use the pedestrian crosswalk so they do not not have to stop. Had several near misses in the last few years because of that.
My pet peeve is sharing the sidewalk with electric bike riders. Mornings when I'm walking my dog kids on their way to school scream up behind me. I don't always hear them and have many narrow misses with them either hitting me or my dog. There are many bike lanes and frankly I don't blame them for not using the bike lanes because of the way people drive. The lesson here is never, ever, trust a driver to yield to anyone in the crosswalk.
Ones that don't announce particularly irritate me. We know on our bike trails to do that. Not so the students and professors on campus or using the university trail to get to campus (they come screaming past on traditional bicycles leaving virtually no room if you or your dog drifts any towards the center). I keep my dog on a relatively short leash and walk him to my right while hugging the right side of the trail.
by Oregon law, in the same section as the section giving right of way in the crosswalk, is a clause that a person may not step into the roadway unless it is safe to do so.
Yes. And the other lesson is that if they do hit you don’t expect them to stick around. Learned that on the hard way twice (granted one of them the lady didn’t really hit me but got super close that I banged the hood of her car to get her attention to stop cause she had forced me into the road and I didn’t have a horn to get her attention)
Cyclists are the worst drivers on the road. I was biking myself (oh the irony) i needed to turn left but had to yield to another cyclist. I slowed down and signaled with my hand but the guy behind me said "You can't stop here" as he nearly crashed into me. Cyclists are really adverse to hitting the brakes and dont look ahead from the looks of it.
When I want to use a crosswalk I always make sure the cars are stopping. If 999 out of 1000 times the cars will stop, but that 1 time they don't it could kill you. With the distracted driving because of cell phones it is playing Russian roulette to trust cars to stop at crosswalks.
I mean, the same rule applies when entering an intersection in your car. If someone runs a red light you're dead. God forbid people maintain some spatial awareness in the name of self preservation. One could argue pedestrians that pay 0 attention are trying to win Darwin Awards because people don't tend to face tank 2 ton death machines well.
I have a mobility disability but I also have good dexterity and balance. I have a battery powered "scooter", basically a small bicycle but with no pedals or chains, just a hub battery. It can go up to 20mph and has a low-speed limiter, too, so that I can move along slowly on a sidewalk or take it right into stores with me and do my shopping. And here in the big City the electric wheelchairs sometimes go up to 40mph, piloted by people with little more control over their bodies than a working paw. Our City has one set of laws/regs, the county does, and so does California. It's at the point where the cops just ignore everything unless a fight breaks out over collision or rights...and it had better be a hell of a fight, because they take at least 20 minutes to arrive for any reason. Am I afoot? Hmmm.
Anyone moving faster than jogging speed shouldn't be protected, and the city should be liable if visibility isnt sufficient to see such a person with sufficient time to act. I've lived in an area with blind turns where a bicycle moving at 10mph would be visible for less than half a second before its in front of your car.
Oregon: My sister was driving. How the heck she saw and stopped for a SPEEDING bicycle on a B path crossing our 4 lane with median major street, no signal or cautionary signs, I'll never know. The bike path was certainly not obvious to me, but did have a crosswalk marking. Glad I wasn't driving.
I agree with this law, since scooters, skateboards, bicycles etc...can come out of nowhere because of their speed. Especially if there is a building on the corner and nobody visible on the sidewalks and just takes a second to pop out from the corner of the building and into the street.
I always learned bicycles are supposed to be on the road and follow traffic laws - not allowed on crosswalks. Very surprised wheelchairs aren’t covered.
In my town bicycles are told to use the sidewalks (they are bigger for mixed use) and to use crosswalks. It really depends on the area or if the area even has SOP for bikes. Many don’t. My area doesn’t want bikes to slow down traffic and the roads are small but cars kept passing within inches of bike riders. The mixed use walkways and crosswalks seem to work well. We also have people who use mobility scooters and such on them. I live in a very touristy place and there are a lot of scenic trails that travel along roadways. I guess they were slowing down the cars too much
I'd like to hear more stories like this from you Steve... Locally motorists making right turns on red are a menace... They almost universally do not come to a full stop before turning. They also make right turns on red at intersections where right turns on red are prohibited. Bicyclists in the bike lane riding with the lights in their favor have been run down by those motorists at an alarming rate... It wasn't until a bicycle mounted police officer was hit that there was any publicity of this problem. BTW, you seem to ignore the fact that the horses have feet. 😉
I'd like to see us flip the script on right turn on red. In some other countries, it's prohibited unless there is a sign specifically allowing it. As we modernize traffic signals, we should use a flashing red arrow to indicate right turns are permitted after stop, and signals should be programmed that the light does not flash if a pedestrian has pushed a button to cross that lane. We should return to a world where a solid red signal means stop and stay stopped.
There's a movement to make a right on red illegal across the USA. I think it was illegal until the fuel crisis in the ‘70s. They were worried about cars idling and wasting gas while waiting for a green.
I remember being taught that when using a crosswalk and I had a bicycle that I was to get completely off the bike (not to ‘straddle’) and walk the bike across the road and then I could get back on the bike and ride. This was about 1975-76. I was in first or second grade.
You arent crossing legally if you are riding your bike on a crosswalk meant for feet, in Oregon. If you want to use the crosswalk, you walk your bike. Otherwise, you are a vehicle.
Absolutely false. If you are within the bounds of the crosswalk, and have either activated the crosswalk light and waited for it to signal for crossing, OR waited for the correct traffic light sequence that would dictate when crossing should take place, you ARE absolutely NOT considered a "Vehicle" and are by any and all means considered a pedestrian with which ANY and ALL vehicular traffic MUST yield to. I suggest you brush up on your States traffic laws as it appears to be the case that you are ignorant to the ACTUAL and currently codified laws, pertinent and relevant information as well as Legal Terminology used in the wording of said laws. Knowledge is power, but only when its actually used. Laws back in the day MAY have required one get off and walk their bicycle, but many of those older laws have been reviewed, revised, reworded and resubmitted.
I'm over seventy and have been biking since I was five. I've even biked cross-country (actually, Vancouver -> St. John's). I have been told over and over, that pedestrian ONLY means on foot and that you need to get off your bike to cross. Of course, that assumes that anybody is going to stop for a pedestrian. This morning, walking back from breakfast, thirty cars drove through the crosswalk with me standing in the crosswalk about two feet away from the curb, including a town cop car. And that crosswalk has a nice sign saying "Yield to pedestrians - State Law" under the walking man diamond. Let's face it, we're not in Europe. (BTW, eventually a town public works pickup stopped to let me across so kudos to them.)
I always hear people say "but I had the right-of-way!" when in reality you only have the right-of-way if someone else yields it to you. Right or wrong it does not matter because dead is dead.
As a former LEO in Michigan (1968-1980,) and California (1980-1995,) we were taught that bicyclists were required to dismount and walk their bike within the crosswalk. The reason is because of speed. A bicycle can enter the crosswalk faster than a driver can be reasonably expected to react. It has also been a defense for a driver if the pedestrian is running and the vehicle is already within the intersection.
It’s about time people on bicycles follow the rules of the road AND START PAYING ATTENTION of what’s going on around them. I ride a bike and stop at stop signs and pay very close attention. If you rely on someone stopping for you at a crosswalk your making a mistake
I have talked with several (and seen a few) cyclists that have a sense of entitlement, and in my mind that's fine as long as you recognize the physics of being 160lbs on a 15 pound bicycle being stopped by a 3,000 lbs of metal.
I lived in Flagstaff AZ for 15 years. The town is built at 7500 feet on 11,500 feet San Francisco Peaks. Many of the streets are structured on a steep grade. The sidewalks are old & narrow. We had issues with reckless cyclists on the sidewalk, oftentimes clocking at more than 30 mph on a downtown sidewalk. Not children on these cyclists but adults who should know better. One incident comes to mind was a customer exiting a business colliding with a cyclist on the sidewalk. The customer ended up in ICU with a pneumothorax, ruptured spleen and there was no consequence to the cyclist who wasn’t supposed to be on the sidewalk. The customer spent 3 weeks in the hospital and almost 4 months recovering. She was 72 when this happened.
I find that hard to believe unless said bicyclist is biasly connected in town. She should certainly get lots of publicity and a good law firm interested in her case.
I saw at least one cyclist bomb down this one hill and blow through the intersection at like 30mph on my commute in San Fran pretty much every day. I was riding a mid size motorcycle so I wasn't a whole lot more protected than a cyclist or ped, I always made sure to double check for jackasses when the light turned green.
Driving School Instructor in California here (also retired Coastie). I call all humans not in cars 'Squishies', while instructing. Only two goals in driving: 1) No squishing squishies; 2) Get home alive. All other rules that make sense support those two goals.
I'm a cyclist and have always understood that I shouldn't ride across crosswalks. I rarely ride on sidewalks so it's not really an issue (there is one place where they took out a bridge on a cycle path and routed it across the sidewalk on a road bridge in a way that you can't get to the road from the path). If you need to cross a crosswalk it is best to dismount and cross on foot. However all the other cases you listed, especially wheelchairs, ought to be protected in a crosswalk.
After spending a few weeks in the Netherlands, where bicycles and pedestrians have the right-of-way and most intersections are roundabouts, I am convinced we can do much better. However, our state is much larger than their whole country. Any progress is a step in the right direction.
The law in Oregon as it pertains to bicycles and other scooters etc. is pretty clear and was explained to our cub scouts very clearly. If you are on bike etc you have a choice. If you want to use the crosswalk then you must walk your bike(scooter etc) across. If you are going to ride then you must stay on the road and follow the traffic laws. Wheel chairs other mobility devices for people who have trouble or cant walk follow pedestrian laws and are to use the crosswalk.
No one ever enforces this about walking your bicycle. Well not in bend Oregon. I bike, I have e-biked, gas powered bike and a gass scooter 🛴 I'm almost always in the bike lane or in traffic 🚦. I wish people understood crosswalks are for walking
This may have been correct back when you heard it, but it is incorrect now. See ORS 814.410. You can ride a bicycle in a crosswalk and be considered a pedestrian, as long as you do not approach the crosswalk at high speed (greater than walking speed).
@@davidmoberg7009 that's what I'm trying to say. Nobody riding a bicycle is moving at the speed of a walker. Although they will claim they were after they get hit. The law needs to be fixed where anybody on a bicycle walks. If you're riding you should be on the street with the cars
Too many people enter a crosswalk feeling as though it provides them with an impenetrable shield. Whenever you’re likely to lose in a collision, you should be extra vigilant. You can’t just assume that an approaching vehicle will yield to you.
I was taught that on a bicycle I'm supposed to obay as many of the same laws as cars as a feasibly can. Ie: nobody's expecting me to pedal my fat self up a hill at 50 MPH.
I remember that here in Finland the law was specifically changed in the 90's that bicyclists were no longer protected while crossing the cross walk. This was because the bicyclists can go really fast, and if they are protected, they can come to a crosswalk with significant speed. So we had accidents where bicyclists hit the side of a car on a cross walk and went flying, and the driver was determined to be the guilty one. Btw, the law here in Finland does consider people on a wheelchair as pedestrians, but all scooters etc are not...
My biggest issue with crosswalk laws is that drunk people will literally run out into traffic, or people will walk out at night in the rain with no regard for the fact that you might not even see them. No personal responsibility. They just assume. You can literally be held accountable when someone wearing black clothes walks out into traffic at night, in the rain. There's no way you can see them until it's too late. Each scenario has happened to me on a few occasions. The last was a couple at a 4 way stop in my small town, away from downtown, at a moderately busy intersection at best, and that's during the day. No sidewalk type neighborhood. Granted, we're talking crosswalks, but in these situations, pedestrians still have the right of way. I was stopped across the intersection from them. They had these LED lights on that had the appearance of the long, skinny, bendable glow sticks you see on the 4th of July, and were only moderately brighter at best, and even in all different colors. Remember these aren't like the short and chunky bright chem lights with the lanyard loop you can direct traffic or taxi aircraft with. It was drizzling and there was zero daylight left. I started to cross the intersection, and they walked out in front of me, in dark clothes, assuming I saw them. I didn't until I was about halfway across, and they looked at me like I was the problem. Sorry, but my vision is better than 20/20, and I always run my interior lights as dim as possible at night. Maybe you're the problem.
@@briant7265 Right? Look both ways multiple times before walking out into traffic. I learned that last week. No wait. I learned that when I was 6. Never assume they can see you, be it on foot, on a bike, on a motorcycle, and even in another car. I've seen plenty of people pull up to a 4 way stop, and only look one direction. All you can do is sit there in disbelief. Always better safe than sorry. Stay safe and be well !
A personal experience: pulling out of a parking lot making a right-hand turn, a bicyclist travelling at faster than walking speed came up from my blind spot and I almost hit him. There needs to be a balance: while the pedestrian or other person might have right-of-way, they still need to act reasonably and not run into the crosswalk.
Another example: someone jogging around sundown ran through the crosswalk as I was stopped at just as I was ready to pull out. Fortunately I saw him in time, but it was close. Perhaps I would have been legally liable if I had hit him, but his injuries would be worse than mine. Prudent thing to do would be to slow down at intersections and make sure drivers see you before you cross the street.
I learned quickly that if you bike or even walk on a sidewalk, bike/walk on the same side as the flow of traffic in the direction you are going because someone turning right rarely looks at where their car is going as they are are only looking at what's coming up the road.
I see it like this. If you can get a DUI while using it, you have no right to the crosswalk protection. You can get a DUI with.... Lawn tractor, bicycle, horse, scooter, etc.
That’s what I was thinking. Cops have arrested people for drunk driving on all of those things, but how can they have been driving if they are considered pedestrians? 🤦♂️ As an aside, at least one rider on horseback was found innocent of drunk driving because it was argued the horse was “driving” and the rider was merely a passenger since the horse knew the route home.
Bicycles should absolutely NOT be protected in crosswalks. They are NOT pedestrians, they are vehicles. They also shouldn't be permitted on sidewalks (most places they are not, but not enforced). And for pedestrians, drives me nuts when they don't know the side of the road they should be walking on, that is, facing traffic not going with traffic.
I once had to slam on my brakes for a bicycle that entered the crosswalk while moving so fast that I couldn't see it until it was already in the street. I always walk my bike in the crosswalk.
What fraction of the incidents involving light/man-powered vehicles started with the light vehicle coming into the crosswalk at a speed at least twice that of a pedestrian without slowing down or checking for incoming traffic, not the driver thinking "haha, it's not illegal to run em down here!".
In Ohio, bicycles are treated as vehicles, but a lot of cyclists just do wtfever they want and rush down sidewalks, duck traffic signals by blazing through crosswalks or ignore signs and signals entirely. Anyway, it boils down to the speed that cyclists can move and their size, giving motorists no time to react to a sudden appearance in a crosswalk.
I believe that's why in Connecticut you're told to walk your bikes or scooters across. Possibly so you don't loose control and hit a pedestrian also walking. Anything you have to balance you usually have to ride faster to keep balanced !
What gets me are those in bike clubs who blatantly ignore the bike laws. They ride 6 abreast down the road, then get belligerent when you try to pass them and try to run into you, and then they blow through stop signs. These are highways with 55 MPH limits, have blind hills and intersections. I have found that if the intersection is sanded well, they tend to stop before turning though. I wonder why. It was getting so bad that several had near misses that I called the county on them and had a mounty sit in my drive giving out tickets. He handed out about 50 of them that day.
As a cyclist myself I realize we are pretty much fair game on the roads, i.e. bike lanes and shoulders. As long as the driver isn't drunk or flee the scene they can get away with murder. Very rarely is there any criminal consequences, your only recourse is civil and good luck with that, especially if you're dead.
I'm a cyclist. I frequently ride a trail that crosses a four lane road. I would NEVER assume any of those cars are going to stop. Only time I cross when there is traffic is if the cars are stopped in all four lanes, or far enough away that I would cross if there was no closer traffic. I've actually stood there with some cars stopped, because I was not going to assume the other drivers were paying attention. And many times? Those drivers were NOT paying attention and drove right through the intersection past the other stopped traffic.
Bikes are vehicles, and shouldn't be on sidewalks. Cyclists that just shoot through an intersection from the sidewalk and onto the crosswalk are the equivalent of a car shooting out from a sidestreet.
Pretty sure bicycles are essentially cars/motorcycles in the eyes of US state traffic laws, and are expected to follow the same rules. Where crosswalks typically connect sidewalks where bikes are usually not allowed, it would be easy to see why cyclists are not considered "pedestrians" while mounted.
Generally, bicycles must follow the rules of the road when it comes to signaling turns. Horns and lights are optional and most safety requirements inapplicable.
No person crossing with the direction of a crosswalk ON or IN anything other than walking (not on a bike, or horse, skies, any wheeled footwear, etc...), except for a slow-moving wheel chair, can count as a pedestrian protected by law. If a person on or in any of those other things wants to cross, they MUST stop!, and get off of bikes or horses (or any animal, including another human), and walk across, or slowly wheelchair, or skate, ski, etc... after stopping and only once safe to cross.
In Norway: If you walk with your legs, cars have to yield for you at a crosswalk. If you are on wheels (bicycles, roller scates, etc.), you have to yield to cars. You can step off the bicycle and walk the bicycle across. Then cars have to yield for you. Though driving reasonably is also important. If you are a car and see someone crossing the crosswalk, breaking the yield rule. You can't just give gas and run them over intentionally. You still have to try to keep things safe and stop.
This isn't a loophole all people are required by law to walk their bike, scooter etc. In the crosswalk. The only exception is a wheelchair but not mobility scooters because they are capable of walking.
The problem with this is that a lot of mobility scooters will not run if the person is not in the seat. They have an interlock that prevents them moving.
There are bikelanes in my city and most cyclists dont use them. Bike trails away from cars and intersections are better for them. In this regard, I am pro-segregation for bikes and cars.
I mean in this exact case mentioned, did the cyclists check the road before crossing? I mean crossing willynilly without due diligence at a speed higher than a walker at a crosswalk not at a stoplight dies seem highly irresponsible and punishing someone that couldve been paying attention and couldnt stop in time doesnt seem just to me.
Pedestrians (however defined) have to look both ways before crossing the street. Car drivers must have a reasonable opportunity to stop before they can be guilty of a crime, regardless of whether the person they hit is walking or on a bike. Definition of "pedestrian" will not prevent any accidents. Drive with reasonable care. Walk with reasonable care. Ride a bike with reasonable care. Easy peasy.
Hey Steve, could you talk about and help educate us on how "Actual Physical Control" language got it's start and wound up in all 50 states laws, making it criminal DUI to be asleep at the wheel of a legally parked car on private business parking spaces? I literally could not believe DUI was possible if not actively driving a car, it really shook me. Not only is it wrong, it creates a criminal offense on the premise that you *could* drive off in the car, not that you have driven or intend to or anything. I refuse to accept being asleep in a parked car is a crime. It's nonsensical. I know MADD had something to do with promulgating the language and stuffing ghostwritten language into willing state legislator's bill submissions like all lobbyists do to get their way, but I can't find enough about the whole story as to how this got into law and people get convicted of a crime they haven't committed. Please? Respect to you man, you keep it real.
It doesn't seem to matter what the laws are. Drivers don't seem to know them or forget them as soon as they obtain a license. It also doesn't matter what the laws are if you're dead. I remember an old Archie comic where one character is sweating profusely while pulling on the oars of a rowboat as the huge bow of a ship approaches. The other character is reading a book of rules of the sea saying, don't worry, according to this we have the right of way.
@@SuprousOxide they totally do not care though is the issue. Many in cars would prefer everyone just be out of their way from what I can tell these days. I also had one time while biking around the city I lived in when, in spite of 20mph speed limit, and I was keeping up within 5-10ft of the car in front of me, I had more than one person pass me and then turn right across my path in their car because they couldn't be bothered to stay in line behind me. And at least where I am, bicycles are prohibited on sidewalks and required to ride in the driving lane and follow the same traffic control devices as cars.
The problem is some bicyclist don’t follow traffic laws and want the best of both worlds. Bicyclist often run Stop signs and Red Lights much more than automobiles
I took a Senior driver safety course recently for insurance discount and there was a lengthy section related to this. As a driver in Florida, you're expected to avoid hitting anyone in any circumstance and you're at fault for anyone you hit, in or out of a crosswalk. idk if that loophole would absolve a driver for running over a person on a bicycle in a crosswalk in Florida, I doubt it. But, you're right that wording of these laws should change. There are all manner of ways people cross at intersections, only one you didn't mention is the bicyclist towing a baby carrier. I see many of these in my area.
I am here in Tucson and I remember when this happened. there's more to the story, but also everybody should have been taught from an early age that you walk your bicycle across crosswalks. I'm 45 years old and don't ride a bike and even I know that you are not supposed to ride a bicycle on a crosswalk. Crosswalk means a place where you walk across. it's not called a crossbike or crosssegway. it's tragic that the accident happened and it's even more so tragic that a woman died because of it, but ultimately it was her own failure to understand traffic laws.
You can easily see someone walking to the entrance of a crosswalk, but someone bicycling at 15-20 MPH can enter a crosswalk and get in front of you before you have a chance to yield.
there shouldnt be laws that allow bicyclists to ignore stop signs and red lights, the crosswalk is the most dangerous place in that city, when i lived there iwas almost hit legally crossing a x walk, by a car and a cop was right behind him the guy ran the crosswalk while i was crossing and was a yellow one, he got no tickit.
