The Difference Between Reformed Theology and Calvinism | Theocast 

Sorry, but you are completely deceived and do not understand the gospel, nor the Bibles Christianity. God absolutely predestined everyone. A few for heaven (1%), and the rest for hell (the remaining 99%). It is the 99% that fill all the 100% apostate churches.

Exodus 20::13 Acres 4:27 Deut32:39 Isaiah 11:4 Ezekiel 33:11 Exudes 20:16 2tim 2:25,26 2 Tim 2:10

You are completely blind, lost, and deceived, as you have exposed, and this is because this is the destiny God chose for you.

I have heard that Calvinist churches do not go door to door any longer because 'God already knows those who are His; so why bother? Totally defeats the purpose of the Great Commission.

@@s.l.7982 well do not follow man ;the bible teaches Election by God not by Man so that how’s someone know how is not?

Try reading the Bible instead.

I had the opposite effect: the more I studied the Bible, the more I saw the wisdom of the Calvinistic perspective in explaining the Bible and the world at large. (And I've never read Calvin). I don't claim to be a Calvinist, but I am definitely a Determinist. I find that people who don't live in 1st world countries are far more likely to be fundamental Determinists. Makes me wonder how much influence the Enlightenment period (and post-modernity) has had on contemporary Christian thought.

Nail it! Jesus paid it all for all!

The more I study my Bible the more sure I am against calvinism.

​@timffoster I really have never been able to find a real solid difference between determinism and Calvinism. Yet when I mention that to a Calvinist they say that determinism is unbiblical.

It isn't labels for label's sake. They mostly come from defending against false teachings and some from distinctions in nonessentials. For an example of the first, look at the use of the word Trinity and for the second calvinist vs arminian.

the fact that you are attacking the labels instead of disputing the ideas is just a weak tactic and a fallacy looking for a boogeyman when I ask someone what they believe, do you think they have a huge list of what exactly they believe on every topic?

​@@tomtemple69 I wasn't attacking anything. I commented that the sheer number of labels is overwhelming, not that they can't be useful or that they required disputing.

@@spiritman-em4qr come up with a new good doctrine or completely heretical doctrine that catches steam and they'll name it after u lol

Amen; stick to scripture alone.

What if election has nothing to do with Salvation, but rather to Service?

​@@glenncook8140Simply because God declared that we will not come and we cannot come in our deadness and trespasses. Just take God at HIS Word --- we don't understand HIS ways and HIS ways are not our ways

The Lord led me to this post before I became a full Calvinist warrior. Thank you. I want to add, if love is forced, it's a contradiction in terms. If you are UNABLE to accept Christ and punished for doing so, that's not just. I have children and I don't punish them for something they can't avoid doing. Lord help us sinners.

Jesus clearly tells "why" he [ in the parables] has hidden the truth from the bling unbelieving. You need to read what Jesus said to the 12 concerning why He started using parables near the end of His ministry. As a matter of fact, He used only parables from that point on. It is unfortunately the opposite from what you have stated above. Just read your bible--- it is all spelled out. You are having a human reaction without reading what He plainly teaches. Goodness are you going to be surprised.

If you are going to try to tell folks what the bible says and what it means you really need to learn how certain words are used in scripture Here are a few of those words -- all-- if--world-- chosen-- predestined --called and a few others. Your above mentioned of "All "shows a very shallow understanding of biblical doctrine. This is not a negative critique just a hopeful push toward farther study of thousands of years of careful bible study. Lord bless

The good news is to the believer and the believer only. It's really that simple. There's no calvinism in that. It is a matter of understanding and what most don't understand is the sovereignty of God. I challenge you to disprove the doctrines of Grace and you will not be able to do it believe me I tried. You will continue to circle back to God's sovereignty

Calvinism does not equal Reformed theology, Calvinism=Gnostisim

@@andrewmattiewalter I don't think that is largely true although there are some differences. Would you be able to help me and tell me what YOU see as the differences? Have you read Institutes?

@@andrewmattiewalterOffered without evidence, dismissed without effort

Calvinism repackages and compartmentalizes Augustinianism which is simply Biblical theology. Calvinism is the thing that everyone agrees with until you call it what it is. "Do you believe God is Sovereign?" "Yes." "Congratulations you're a Calvinist." If you're coming from a dispensational eschatology, yes you can't reconcile your eschatology with calvinist soteriology because the logical conclusion of dispensationalism is that there's two modes of salvation, Gentile believers, and Ethnic Jews whether they believe or not, which is borderline heresy because there's no other way to the father except through Christ. As far as the sovereignty of God, it's simple. God wills all things that come to pass, and there's not a hair on your head that falls that God is not in sovereign control of. This goes hand and hand with Biblical Limited Atonement, and Predestination. If you redefine sovereignty apart from that, you humanize God. And when you humanize God, who is Holy Other, you paganize God.

@@jaxonlindsey9457 Untrue. The problem is Calvinists do not understand the sovereignty of God. Their understanding of the sovereignty of God comes from the men they follow, not the breadth of Scripture. They have redefined it in their own image, and unBiblically at that. God does NOT will all that comes to pass. That is shown clearly in Scripture. If you make such a claim, you are claiming that God is a) untrustworthy (because God says things that He wills to happen and they don't , and b) the first cause of evil which is directly opposed to scriptural teaching (because if your sovereign God wills evil to occur, it cannot happen any other way). As has been stated, God's sovereignty does not require control of, or dependence on men, in the nominal case. Its the difference between causality and foreknowledge. There are purposes that God has which will not be denied although even there all God has to have is the foreknowledge in many cases to allow it to occur but individually chosen salvation is not one of them (we know this because of the breadth of teachings in scripture). Each of us will have to decide whether we will follow men or follow Scripture. I encourage you to follow the latter.

You can't affirm the 5 Solas and hold an Arminian position. That's a logical and theological contradiction.

@@matthewdyer2926 Hm, I sense potentially inaccurate presuppositions about Arminian theology. Care to elaborate? Which Sola(s) in particular are incompatible with Arminian soteriology and why?

@@henryb.7723 Grace, for one. Arminians believe that man has so-called "free will" in the sense of a self-determination to _choose_ to accept or reject the Gospel. Grace plus anything cannot be said to be grace alone; grace plus your free decision is not Sola Gratia. That is a logical and theological fallacy. Sola Gratia necessitates a Divine and monergistic act to accomplish salvation. This is incompatible with semi-Pelagian (Arminian) theology. John Owen put Arminianism to death definitively in the 1600's. If you're interested in the truth, check out "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ".

@@matthewdyer2926 Salvation is completely monergistic in Arminian soteriology because having faith is a separate category from doing works (as described extensively in scripture). I've never quite understood why Calvinists attempt this as a counterargument. If I am drowning, someone reaches down their hand and asks me to grab hold of them, and I do so, the rescuer still deserves 100% of the credit for my rescue. Therefore, I can easily and confidently proclaim that I am saved by nothing other than the grace of God.

@@henryb.7723 No, salvation in Arminianism is definitely not monergistic in any meaningful or historical sense. If it were, then there would be no distinction between our positions. Your drowning analogy actually reveals the Arminian error very aptly. A drowning man is heading toward death, but isn't dead yet. He can therefore make the _choice_ whether or not to take the hand of his rescuer. The problem is that scripture never anywhere describes the spiritual condition of fallen man as someone who is _about_ to drown, but as someone who is _already dead._ "...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen 2:17 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-" Romans 5:12 "And you were _dead_ in your trespasses and sins..." Eph 2:1 Not dying, but dead. "...even when we were _dead_ in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved." Eph 2:5 Dead, not dying. "When you were _dead_ in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ." Colossians 2:13 Not drowning, but dead And Ezekiel 37, the valley of dry bones. We are so spiritually dead that our bones no longer hold any water. Again, not dying, but dead. Dead bones cannot reach out of the water to be rescued. And where on earth did anyone say that faith is a work? Of course it isn't a work; it's a _gift._ Those who are given the gift are saved, and those from whom the gift is withheld are damned. I'm not sure where you found that concept, but it's nowhere to be found in reformed, Biblical theology. "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the _gift_ of God..." Eph 2:8

I’m sincerely glad to hear your testimony, but I have to point something out which exposes the absurd assumption behind the quote you’re responding to; the church _isn’t meant_ for unbelievers. It’s meant for believers. The assumption behind the statement is that there is something wrong with reformed churches because people aren’t saved while attending; the gathering of believers is primarily for the edification and communion of _saints_ and to worship God, not a career fair for unbelievers to “check us out” and “see if Jesus is a good fit”. I don’t think this guy understands the purpose of the church.

As a former Calvinist/Reformed I can agree that such a statement is misleading and false. But, i do know that Calvinist and Reformed teachers are prone to frontload salvation by teaching one must "repent of their sins" as a necessary condition to be saved, or backload salvation by teaching that a genuine Christian will necessarily demonstrate good works in their live to prove their salvation, and if they don't, then they must not be a Christian. Both of these are actually very serious works based defects of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and therefore a counterfeit, whereby the genuine Gospel is salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the Law.

Do you know you are saved, or I should ask, are you certain you are elect? Is there even the slightest possibility in your mind that you might not be one of the elect?

​@@lukehelpmetakethisdangmaskoffFriend, Lordship Salvation is nothing new. It has been around since the Apostle Paul, which Paul addressed in the book of Galatians. Read the inspired Word of God.... ‭Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Galatians‬ ‭3:2‭-‬3‬ ‭ Paul is calling out Lordship Salvation, a damning heresy that was popular back then and is still popular today. It is a serious error that is taught by false teachers like John McArthur, John Piper, and many other false teachers; it sounds biblical and is accepted uncritically, and has infected churches everywhere.I'm sure you've heard of this manifestation of Lordship Salvation before.... ...We are justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.... [Or as the pastor at Redeemer Bible church preaches the same proposition using different words, ("it is true that God's grace in a mans life inevitability results in obedience")] Let's unpack this theological statement; I will demonstrate the damning heresy imbedded in it. I will refer to Galatians 2:2-3 in parentheses, translating the statement above according the inspired Word of God.... 1. ‭"We are justified by faith alone.... (recieved the Spirit by hearing with faith), 2. ...but not by a faith that is alone ("Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?) Galatians‬ ‭3:2‭-‬3‬ ‭ Paul is basically correcting the Galatians who became Christians by faith in Jesus Christ, but fell into serious error after being taught by false teachers that they must finish their salvation by works; a hybrid of faith in Jesus Christ melded together with obedience to the Law. Sound familiar? Incredibly, this damning heresy is still around today, popularized by the notion that there must be works in the life of a professing Christian. They must persevere, they must be obedient, they must submit to the Lordship of Christ, they must do more and try harder, and if these works are not present in the life of a professing Christian then they are not a Christian. The end result of this is that you become a Pharisee, and your focus is on you and your works and not the finished work of Jesus Christ. Under Lordship Salvation YOU become worried that YOU are not doing enough works to prove YOUR justification, which leads to YOUR despair. Therefore, YOU must do more and try harder, YOU must be obedient to God's Laws, and YOU must persevere to the end. And when YOU finally succeed, then YOU become proud of YOUR efforts, that Is, until YOU begin to worry again that YOU are not doing enough works to prove YOUR justification, so again, YOU must do more and try harder.....and it goes on and on in an endless cycle of pride and despair. Do you see how Lordship Salvation is bondage to the Law of God, (obedience) and not freedom from the Law by faith in Jesus Christ? Again, in Galatians the Apostle Paul reminds us that we who have faith in Jesus Christ are no longer under the curse of the Law...... ‭Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”-so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. Galatians‬ ‭3:13‭-‬14‬ We are free from the Laws demands on us by faith in Jesus Christ.... For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Galatians 5:1 The Apostle Paul issues a stern warning against anyone who seek to be justified by their obedience to the Law.... You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ The Jewish people in Jesus's day were broken and laboring under the Pharisees and their strict demands to follow all of their man made rules. The modern day Pharisees of today who teach Lordship Salvation are essentially doing the same thing as the Pharisee of old. Jesus didn't make such demands. He only requires faith in Him, opposing all of the false gospels demanding repentance from sins and obedience to the Law for one's justification.... ‭ Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew‬ ‭11:28‭-‬30‬ ‭ We are either justified by faith or justified by works, and the two can not be mixed. The Apostle Paul in Galatians made this abundantly clear. Its all or nothing. The Bible teaches over and over that we are justified/saved by faith alone in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law. If you can not accept the utter simplicity of the Gospel, then you are calling God a liar. Please read God's Word. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 4:5 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8‭-‬9 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2:21 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” Galatians 3:11 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith- Philippians 3:9 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 4:5 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31 Can you please explain to me how the absence of obedience in the life of a professing Christian who has faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law is not saved? Please reply

​@lukehelpmetakethisdangmaskoff I have faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law. That is the only requirement for justification. Election is a term that Calvinists have hijacked from its original biblical meaning and twisted the word election to mean something that the bible never intended. Btw, election biblically means "service" not "being chosed by God before the foundation of the world". I was a Calvinist for over 20 years, but Calvinism is simply not supported biblically This is why i know i am saved, because the Bible says i am saved by faith alone And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 4:5 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8‭-‬9 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2:21 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 3:28 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” Galatians 3:11 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith- Philippians 3:9 Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 4:5 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31

Yes more confusion than light. Trying to make so much is not helping. It would be incredible difficult to understand all the nuances. I think you will have problems with having you hearers explain what you are trying to teach.

You do not understand because you still need milk. These men are feeding you meat and you are not ready for it. The purpose here is historical; when the church of Christ became divided over arguments and questions which were heavily debated and had to be answered. The issue was how to be saved, is it faith and works or something else. The underlying issue was the need for assurance of their salvation.

Yes, yet theology and doctrine are important, they are very clear on the Gospel they are dissecting the word Biblically which unfortunately not many do, wrong theology can lead to hell.

You can know theology but not know God. Knowing God is experiential, it's not a seminary degree or Calvinist indoctrination.

@@OkOk-rn7to that’s true but you can know God and know him better by learning who He is, theology is important, it’s not a salvation requirement, but the wrong one could lead to hell to unsaved people

Justification is by Faith Alone. justification by obedience is not Biblical.We try to be obedient by following God’s word in the Holy Bible but believing obedience will ultimately save us ,is so far from the Gospel message.

Exactly. Paul admonished the Corinthians because of these exact schisms - some followed Paul and some followed Apollos: "Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God." (1 Cor 3:21-23)

Hopefully you have an answer already, but reformed baptist hold to a Federalist covenant Theology or a progressive (not the gay kind) covenant Theology. Both have historic backings ❤

Which Baptist?? Southern or American....for starters. Among the 100s of offshoots. My head is spinning.

Excellent

Actually , at most Universities , the scouts or coaches choose/recruit players to come play for the team..... just saying.

Well, if you were a Christian, you would not have had this unbiblical picture. Repent!

Brilliant!

Good bros, you! One quibble. I might be wrong and so will not accuse first, think later. Was "pietism" (not?) Lutheran in its origin? Luther kinda did like it much bc it gave way to Lutherans (like my genius hero JS BACH❤) who favored reading the Bible for one's self, and "congregational" meetings and small-group prayers, discussions on one's individual readings, mutual aid, support, etc etc. Example: we have the actual volumes of the Bible Bach used to become as informed as possible RE: his duties in the longtime profession of "Kantor" (organ, choir, composer, small orchestra, organizer, improviser, fixer) at the Saint Thomas Church in Leipzig. We have his clear notes scattered in the margins from page 1 to the last page of Revelation. And yet, I know of only one published article that features only a minimal selection of these notes. Why not all of them? I hunger and thirst as an organist myself. Pietism at its best the way I see it. A Lutheran thing. SO. How are you using that term "pietist?" Are we on the same page?

Not really. All those who subscribe to Reformed Theology are Calvinists but not all Calvinists subscribe to Reformed Theology.

Calvin and his institutes are beautiful + Doctrines of Grace and the sola's, T.U.L.I.P. too, it is rightly dividing the word of Truth

@@IamGreatsword cringe, you have been brainwashed.

@@TylerJames-yu5hf Hmm? Interesting your opinion is duly noted and dismissed.

@@IamGreatsword how could it be duly noted and dismissed at the same time? It wouldn’t be noted if it was dismissed… Anyways. You are adoring men and their teachings. It’s not biblical nor does it align with God’s character… Keep studying without the presumption..

Hey brother. Just to bring clarity on the part of Theocast. I don’t believe that the brothers at Theocast are saying that creeds and confessions are inspired the way Scripture is. I think they would articulate that creeds and confession are other forms of authorities not on the same level as the Bible (since the Bible is the Final Authority - the authority above all other authorities) and are subject under. But creeds and confessions and all other authorities are always subject under the authority of the Holy Scriptures. The Bible is the inerrant, infallible inspired Word of God. It is the authority above all other authorities, which are not inspired (God-breathed). Though they may not be inspired (like Pastors who may give godly wisdom) we still can learn from them. Also I think what they mean by Biblicistm is a person believes “no creeds but Christ/Bible”. An extreme example are JW’s who may read the Bible and come to a conclusion that is highly exclusive to their theology especially reading with presuppositions. Since everyone reads with presuppositions, confessionalism is helpful, because it brings clarity to what Christians articulate and actually confess and believe, especially addressing the errors and heresies of their day. They also may be prescribed as guards or walls against wayward and unsound doctrines. Christians, today, can use Creeds and Confessions for historical and theological reasons. This should not say that the Bible is not sufficient to guard against heresies, because the Bible is sufficient to guard the doctrine it teaches, but creeds and confessions may define what may fine tune unclear or ambiguous doctrines. I hope I didn’t come across as heady or uncharitable. I’m sure this is something you and many others already know. God bless!

Problem is the church fathers that created the creeds were the ones that put together the biblical canon. The bible is not self evident, it requires interpretation. It requires reason, the wesleyan quadrilateral. The Trinity for example is not explicitly anywhere in the bible. It took church fathers hundreds of years to develop the theology.

I consider myself a Presbyterian yet attend a LCMS church from what they’ve told me they said we have many similarities and from what I know about the Augsburg confession yes there are many I may be mistaken tho, let me know why you hold your point

@@xplicit.27 I'm also in the LCMS. There are many similarities, but enough differences to classify them as different traditions. For example Lutheran's have a higher view of the sacraments, believe in unlimited atonement, resistable Grace, you can lose your salvation, distinctively use law and gospel vice covenant theology, and then some other small differences. My critique was that the video seemed to be lumping the two together at times under the title Reformed, but that category is really meant for those that follow the same confessions as Presbyterian or Dutch reformed. We're both traditions that started the Reformation, but not both "Reformed". Let me know if you've seen the same distinctions! Also, Why do you not attend a Presbyterian Church, just out of curiosity?

​@@xplicit.2727:10 is one part in the video where they did this. Luther started the Reformation but isn't a father of Reformed theology, that would be Zwingli and Calvin...I wish they used more distinctive titles lol

It is not continuitionism, a man made construct to deny the scripture and the work of the Holy Spirit that's the problem It's that the God Jesus revealed in the Gospel is not of the same nature and character as their concept of God.

I am watching this video a few months after it was made, but I think their point was that all Reformed are indeed Calvinists, but not all Calvinists are Reformed. As a person who agrees with Reformed Baptists in theology and is a Southern Baptist by membeship, I would be excluded by some as a "truly Reformed" person, as I do not agree with infant baptism.

I’m one of those… 🙏

Yes---I would say the "same thing to you concerning " concerning what later theology studies have seen and understood as some really bad cracks in early COVENANT THEOLOGY. We understand exactly what you believe and why you believe it. We understand that the bible teaches you this theology---however the bible does not teach us this theology. We have as much right to believe what the bible teaches us as you do. We clearly understand your point of view we just don't see it in scripture. Doesn't in our view say you are bad folks just that the whole of scripture gives us a better more biblical understanding of God.

So are you an Open Theist too then ? Col 1:16-17 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

@@toolegittoquit_001 What does open theism have to do with my comment? I made a comment about re-defining words, not the veracity of the concept of meticulous determinism.

​@@toolegittoquit_001I am not an open theist and I 100% agree that sovereignty does not mean determinism. It means God's right to rule and to do what He pleases. It's the same type of sovereignty that kings of the earth have over their nations. God is the king of kings. Nowhere anywhere in history does sovereignty mean determinism of every detail (or every movement of every adam). That is ridiculous.

Excellent! Yes!

I have to point something out which exposes the absurd premise behind your statement; the church _isn’t meant_ for unbelievers. It’s meant for believers. The assumption behind your statement is that there is something wrong with reformed churches because people aren’t saved while attending; the gathering of believers is primarily for the edification and communion of _saints_ and to worship God, not a career fair for unbelievers to “check us out” and “see if Jesus is a good fit”. I don’t think you understand the purpose of the church. That’s your primary error, although the rest of your tirade is also abjectly ridiculous and portrays a sad ignorance of both scripture and history.

@@matthewdyer2926 ah tha all knowing calvinist has spoken. so since "the church" isnt meant for unbelievers, please explain why God uses those non calvinist churches to bring people to Christ. what a dumb ass statement to make. u are admitting that people arent saved in reformed churches, and that most calvinists are saved in non reformed churches, then u blast said churches for filling ur pews! my "absurd premise" of believing its the church's job to PREACH THE GOSPEL, and when the gospel is preached people are saved is what u object to? oh u reformed fool! just further proves my point. people with ur view must recruit in order to fill ur ranks, because nobody is gonna be born again in ur churches. you dont reproduce so u have to recruit. just like the homosexual

On target!

@@matthewdyer2926 I agree that the purpose of the church is primarily communion and edification, but the fact remains that the vast majority of global evangelism is done by non-Calvinists, and the growth in Calvinism in the 21st century is largely due to the disillusionment of charismatics and covert Calvinism.

Let's condense your point: a virus needs a host.

Feeds the flesh(ego) also attracts people who are heavily "Narcissist".