Abandoned rails in the City of London. Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jago... Patreon: / jagohazzard Just Watching Trains (2nd channel): / @justwatchingtrains-ji4ps Threads: www.threads.ne... Instagram: ...
You never need to google anything. The easiest method is just leave a comment about it on a RU-vid video that you know is wrong. Then sit back and relax as many people rush to correct you, giving you the answer that you needed. Don't make the mistake of asking a question in the comments section though, because then you'll get no replies at all.
When I was a kid, I used to explore Leith Central after it had been broken into. It was so deathly quiet and deserted with the city noises muffled outside. You could get into the offices, though they were later bricked up. It also became the inspiration for the title of Trainspotting.
The sidings idea and the museum idea are not _ultimately_ incompatible. The trick is that once you put a train into a siding, you never take it out again.
But that's why the two ideas are incompatible; because the Underground wants to move trains in AND out as operational needs dictate. They can't if there's a bunch of layabout old stuff gathering dust and taking up the trackage. :)
That would work, because if it was an old train that broke down, they might hum and ha about whether or not it was economical to repair, and then refer it to a working party, which could constitute itself into a committee, and by then the train would definitely be a museum piece. Moar museums!
I remember when Thameslink was still using Moorgate and Barbican until 2009. I think that some Metropolitan line peak-time services terminated at Moorgate, too. And then there was *Steam on the Met.* I travelled on the Hammersmith-Moorgate service in August 2014.
There are still terminating platforms at Moorgate for the Met. At subsurface level there were 6 plaforms: 2 x through to Aldgate and beyond, 2 x Met bays and 2 x Thameslink bays.
If I remember correctly the Circle line train of the day terminated at Moorgate when I visited London a few years back. Just a weird fact I remembered when I watched this video.
First thing I imagine when looking at Barbican is the possibility of filling in the disused tracks up to platform level. You could even plant trees there since it is open air. Would create a very unique experience when waiting for a train
Nice idea to convert the disused platforms as sidings, but I thought that with the opening of the Elizabeth Line and other expansion plans they would be included as stations for national rail.
They were national rail, but were abandoned to allow Farringdon station to be extended which was more beneficial, the national rail service to Moorgate via Barbican was only a few trains per day in the peaks.
As far as I know from my days at LUL, the tunnels will have twin tracks, one for stabling, the other for bypass. Barbican and Moorgate stations will have a single track, possibly in the middle of the formation. There won’t be stabled trains at the two stations. Mahogany didn’t mention the replacement junction at Farringdon laid a handful of years back. Another reason for the need for S7/8 stabling here is that some existing stabling roads are too short for the current fleet. Some existing roads have been removed as a result E.g. Edgeware Road and Triangle Sidings.
When they were building Crossrail, I believed that the connection of Farrington station to Barbican was going to be some escalators that would come up where the old trackbed used to be. When they actually built it, I was very disappointed when I discovered that the promised connection was only a lift coming out on the westbound platform. I am likewise disappointed that you have to go up & over to change from the District line to Crossrail at Whitechapel. I thought they were going to put escalators in the middle of the island platform, like the connection to the Piccadilly line at South Kensington.
I have fond memories of the widened lines in the 1960s as a train spotter I used to catch the train from Moorgate to Finsbury Park The station at Moorgate was open air. The old Gresley Quadart stock was still being used so this is pre 1966. Trains for the Midland also used the line so you could see class 24s 31s and boring Cravens DMUs plus the Midland used class 26s. I'm showing my age In 70 They were great days, never got in trouble, didn't vandalise things either. Actually the only trouble I got in was I bought a twin Rover so I could ride the tube. I loved the Met so went out to Amersham. Well this inspector at Amersham who used to be in the Nazi party and looked like Blakey gave me a right ol Bollickin. Apparently the tickets were only valid as far as Rickmansworth. I kid you not this geezer could have been in the SS. Anyway such great days.
Yes, me too. My uncle worked in Moorgate and would take me from Kings Cross York Road, with the return coming up right over the other side. It was a really tortuous smelly journey with acrid diesel fumes, but the old BR suburban coaches had bouncy comfortable seats.
As an American who recently went to London for the first time, its still so strange seeing locations in these videos and knowing that I have been there and seen it irl
Thanks, Jago. I recently took a London Transport Museum 'Hidden London' tour of Moorgate Station. The guides there also referred to the proposal to use the abandoned lines east of Farringdon as underground train sidings. Great to see them used again. However, they were not confident of timescales given the parlous state of TfL's finances. Let's hope it can be done.
Mock up a section to look like the HS2 track that should have gone to Leeds and Manchester for northerners to visit as it's the only way they'll ever see it.
Another interesting video Jago. I used Barbican Station for 10 years from 1995 when I was commuting to London to work. I also remember it from the 1960s. During the construction of the Barbican Estate by the City of London Corporation the tracks between Barbican and Moorgate were straightened out and covered over (the area had been badly bombed during ww2). There used to be a direct rail link between the Metropolitan Tracks to the west of Farringdon Station and sidings in the area to the east of the station. All of which were removed as a result of Thameslink. There are of course the underground tracks that once served Smithfield Market. I would be interested how they will thread any new track from the east end of Farringdon to align with the redundant lines through Barbican to Moorgate.
It's quite funny/strange that you've raised this issue today, as I was travelling on this very line and was contemplating their past and how they could be used to relieve some of the congestion and overcrowding that central London's railways incur without going to all the extra expense of yet another 'line?
Hi Jago. My only problem with using the abandoned track as an extension to the museum is that the exhibits are currently undercover and would lose their protection (at least the more elderly ones).
I used to commute to Moorgate from Enfield Chase in the 1970’s. Comfortable slam door stock hauled by a class 31 diesel locomotive with a driver, fireman, and often a young lad in the cab, plus a guard in the rear of the train. The journey down the widened lines was always fun - a bit like a fairground ghost train - and the curves were very tight indeed. It was said that BR had to be careful to send the correct stock down the lines otherwise there was the danger of carriage door handles being destroyed by the tight tunnel walls on the hotel curve. Truly happy days. Thanks Jago.
After being subscribed for years and watching very many of your videos I've just realised that I don't really have all that much interest in the London Underground. However I do find your videos and the way you present them very soothing so I shall still be watching every one you put out. Isn't life weird at times.
The museum idea is lovely especially if we could go on the trains or carriages/coaches. The existing station staff could watch over them. Jago you do have some brilliant ideas. I must visit Moorgate and to see that non roundel tube logo for myself and the disused track before it comes into use.
I’d like to see them used for terminating services at Moorgate again. My first trip on the underground ever, in 1960-something was with my father to my grandfathers barber shop on Moorgate, Flitners. He was retiring that day and we went to see him on such a momentous day. We took BR to Liverpool Street and took the underground to Moorgate. Two things struck me as a young boy. 1. The trains were red like the busses with the same London Transport on, and 2. all those platforms at Moorgate with trains everywhere. Oh, and Grandfather? They tell him go early - so we went to see him at home. Which reminds me of another tube-related tale. Meeting him at Arnos Grove, and being lifted up by both of them on to the pavement as we crossed the bays at the front. Those kerbs were really high in those days… Happy memories.
I’ve travelled on those lines from York Street (Kings Cross) to Moorgate returning via Kings Cross Suburban (Platform 11) on diesel powered trains. You never could tell what would pitch up. Sometimes it was a Class 31 hauling slam door suburban stock, sometimes Class 101 DMU with the odd Cravens being thrown in for good measure.
Jago might like to see those disused tracks used to display museum trains, but let’s remember, the entire underground network is displaying today the museum trains of tomorrow. 👍😀
Your idea for museum display sidings is not as off as it may seem. In Boston, Massachusetts, at the MBTA Green line Boyleston Street station there is an old PCC trolley on loan from the Seashore Trolley Museum parked on a piece of track that was once part of the former Tremont Street branch which closed in 1962. The "T" had to enclose the trolley in a cage due to vandals, sadly after they sprayed the side of the antique with graffiti.
@@LegendaryHopOnBaby That's cool. I've ridden the NY L but I quite young then when my aunt brought me for a trip into Manhattan from the Queens when we visited with her and my uncle during the New York World's Fair in 1964.
Maybe you could confine it to Moorgate, which is a nice spot for a mini-museum as travellers can access the platforms easily. But then Moorgate is also the best place to store trains because they are under cover.
Can you do a video on CLOCKS TIMEPIECES etc. On London Underground and TFL stations. Oldest strangest and different styles. which work which don’t. also on the history of the Main Station timetable boards that tell you what trains go where and when. used to love the old fashioned ones that flipped around at Victoria and Waterloo.
There’s a disused terminating bay at Liverpool Street, on the Met/Circle, hidden behind hordings on the northbound platform. As with two of the four terminal platforms at Moorgate, they were used to house Met line trains during the day off-peak hours when Met line trains didn’t venture east of Baker Street and so were ready for the evening peak hour service.
Even though I live on the other side of the planet (Australia), I just LOVE this channel and its content and narration is always interesting. First class!
I quite like the idea of bringing disused bits back into use for passenger traffic. Of course, thats now a problem as bits have been cut off so not really feasible. The museum display idea is a good one but I suppose TfL want practical uses. Oh well. Its a use.
One of the fun bits about London's railway is even the abandoned bits occasionally get reused. Today these platforms are cut off, but a decade or six from now, TfL might change their minds and reconnect them. Some sections have been repeatedly abandoned and reused as the needs of the network changed over time.
This is a fascinating history. I was there a few days ago and took some pics (posted on Disused Stations Facebook group), but it's better recorded here in video with your dash of wit!
The horse drawn carriage thing, came from the fact that the first equivalent of First Class carriages, were just that....old stage coach carriages put on railway wheels. The poor had the open truck treatment. Only later were proper carriages built. There's always the art gallery platform at Gloucester Road and the train display where the viaduct for Broad Street trains used to be.
I can't remember where it was, but I have a distinct memory of a disused platform outside of London being taken up by two old restaurant cars and operated as, well a restaurant. I suppose the next abandoned thing in plain sight will be ticket offices - shame.
I was expecting them to be opened to Met line trains, but a better idea would be to actually use them as a terminating line and terminate some trains from Amersham et al there, or to extend the District Line from Wimbledon (or somewhere else west of Earl's Court) to terminate there. That might relieve some of the congestion at Edgware Road and provide a direct link from places in west London that don't have it to Euston and King's Cross while the main District Line route serves the Southern Region stations. The lines were underused since Thameslink was built anyway; before that they were the Midland City line and were served by regular trains from the line to Luton.
They can't run Wimbledon trains on beyond Edgware Road, because their paths are taken by Metropolitan line trains joining the Circle at Baker Street. If Wimbledon trains were to go anywhere beyond Edgware Road, I would suggest adding a curve so that they can carry on up the Met towards Harrow and beyond.
You could potentially build a New (Underground) 2 Track Line between Finchley Road to the Barbican that ultimately links up to the Barbican-Moorgate City Widened Lines Section. With the purpose of transferring all Metropolitan Line Services to this section. This would mean that all Metropolitan Line Trains could run to Moorgate itself, alongside increasing frequencies on the Baker Street-Moorgate Tube Corridor as well.
@@MrSmith1984 Met line trains already run through Moorgate to Aldgate. Your plan would of course enable more of them to do so, as some have to terminate at Baker st as the 2 tracks can only take so many trains.
@@ADAMEDWARDS17 That's the point of my proposal. So that all 16-24tph Services of the Metropolitan Line go up to Moorgate, rather than the current 12tph. Thus increasing capacity on the Baker Street-Moorgate Section of the Tube.
Informative and entertaining as always…thank you! Speaking of the Circle Line and Edgware Road Station... Its platforms are for the Circle Line, District Line and Hammersmith & City lines but it has come to my attention that there is another station nearby also called Edgware Road for the Bakerloo Line only. And I understand that they are not physically connected. That is bloody confusing! Apart from renaming/recolouring the Overground Lines so you can figure out where they go on the Tube Map (ditto Docklands), wouldn’t it be a good idea to rename or modify the names of these two Edgware Road stations?
The Tube map subtly shows them as two separate stations and not an interchange. But it could be missed at a quick glance (and always puzzled me till I went there). Certainly anyone coming up the Circle/District from Kensington and wanting to change to the Bakerloo should do so at Paddington rather than Edgware Road.
@@iankemp1131 Actually distance-wise I don't think there's much difference between changing at Paddington or at Edgware Road (only about 20m). The real differences are that you may have to wait for a lift and/or a couple of Pelican crossings at ER. On the other hand, you don't have to fight your way along crowded corridors. That said, if you're coming up from Earl's Court or Kensington, there's only really any point in changing to the southbound Bakerloo Line if you're going to Marylebone or Regent's Park (and Regent's Park's so close to Great Portland Street that you might as well change to the Circle/H&C at Edgware Road instead).
Also bringing back the old memories. Maybe we can bring those tracks back into use for freight line. So, that their companies can make a small amount of money for deliveries as well to the stores if lorries had broken down.
Likewise I'm quite fascinated by such disused-but-still-extant bits of railway infrastructure. Not entirely sure why. I suppose it's a window to the past, albeit quite a recent past in this case.
Well I’m not an expert, my only experience of the DLR was a visit Oct 2022. (I have been gone since 1975, so many things obviously change). I was highly impressed, super railway ran on lines closed and abandoned in my youth. Fast and fairly full of passengers for a mid morning Friday. My only beef was getting off the District Line at Tower Hill, up an elevator to the ground level and then hike around to what looked like a very rickety station at Tower Gateway. Why not extend it past Tower Gateway or probably Bank. Understand there have been a number of proposals (some of which our friend Jago has featured). So why not Farringdon? My next trip I would be on the Elizabeth line at Heathrow and change to the DLR, without out of station connection.
My father used to work in Cheapside, and would commute from Enfield Chase to Moorgate via the widened lines. Steam trains starting out of Kings Cross platform 16 heading north would have a tough time in the evening rush hour. This was in the 1950's and 1960's
not familiar with how accessible these tracks are to the public, but leaving trains sitting in the middle of a city tends to attract vandalism. Here in Copenhagen, DSB used to (up until 15 years ago or so) store a large portion of S-trains by central station because in the morning the lines would start from central and the terminus stations at the same time. But because those trains in the middle of the city were frequent targets for graffiti and other vandalism, they changed policy to only keep a minimum number of trains there in case they need to swap one, and the rest are stored by the terminus stations (which have fewer vandalism issues because they're on the edge of the city) and the trains no longer start at central station, but only at the terminus. Of course Copenhagen is a lot smaller and we have fewer lines, but it seems the problems with keeping the trains safe would be greater in a bigger city
My idea would be to run trains up from York Road with Class 30's and maybe the odd Class 40 with slam door stock and back "down" the East Coast Main line . Trains could be painted in the latest crazy colour schemes of today .
I was hoping we could extend from Smallbrook Junction to them. Would make the line inspection rather long though. I would definitely have to get up earlier. And would have to wear waders in the Solent section.
The NY Subway has a great museum with historic trains in a disused station, but that's a deep level station, so away from the elements AND potential vandalism...
I like the museum idea. I think it's a good idea. But for a brief moment I thought people are going to try to get on the exhibits and that might cause damage plus you've a huge length of tunnel with only the bits at stations being accessible. But then I remembered that was exactly or at least similar to the plan with the disused platform 18 at Glasgow Central. I think it still is. Platform 18 is the third Low Level line platform. As far as I know it's been disused ever since Beeching and electrification of the Glasgow suburban network.
Probably better to keep the museum stuff indoors. Indoors, things can keep looking decent for many years. Outdoors, weather and wildlife take their toll very rapidly.
Thanks Jago - I think it's great that those disused platforms at Barbican and Moorgate will get another lease of life. Following on from what you mention about the siding-type platforms on the sub-surface lines at Tower Hill and Hammersmith, there's also the terminating platform at Mansion House. The District Line has terminating platforms at Plaistow, Barking and Dagenham East too. Something else you will of course noticed are the 'unused' (or more properly - 'no longer used') platforms at the District Line stations on the east of the line (including Bromley-By-Bow, Plaistow, Upton Park, East Ham, and I think Becontree), which now have C2C trains running through, plus where the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines share stations (i.e. from Finchley Road up to Wembley Park) where the Jubillee Line trains stop and the Metropolitan Line trains run through -- what is the background to these, I wonder?
The 'terminating platform' at Mansion House has long since been removed, part of the simplification of track layouts in connection with the signalling upgrades for the Sub-surface lines. Also, I believe the new trains were too long for that platform.
When most railways in yorkshire that were going to be cdlosed, the first stage was to say that they were needed as sidings for stock. Indeed they were but the stock was destined to be scrapped.
If you mean LMU/LGU, I did some of the network cabling for the Moorgate building, back when it was City Poly. Absolutely horrible building to equip with any modern infrastructure.
@@SheeplessNW6 was the modern extension bit worse than the older part (that spilled over into Salisbury house via oddly accessbil stairs - did all the cabling end up at India Street ?
@@highpath4776 sorry, this was in the 80s, and I remember very little detail. India Street: do you mean India House, in the Minories? There were indeed leased lines from Moorgate to there, before we moved down the road to Tower Hill.
A Shunter will still shout "Whoa" to a driver when he needs them to stop in an immediate position , (though doesnt say "walk on" for go - unless it is a horse drawn tram or wagon demonstration shunting at some preserved railway).
100% with you on displaying LT Museum collection on the line. I remember seeing class 31's and coaches on that line. Good to see it will be used again.
Take the Bakerloo line if you want a museum. 1973 rolling stock. You know, the same year Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree - Tony Orlando and Dawn was a hit.
If stabling within the Sub-surface lines is an issue, TfL could consider resuscitating the Cromwell Road Curve and the former associated sidings as a stabling point.
I would have thought the idea of using tunnels as sidings has a some problems. One is that they will surely have to reserve one of the lines for retrieving trains or else it will be a last train in is the first one out on each of the two lines, which might be an issue with a faulty train or if there are different types of trains. That, in turn, implies a lot of sets of points, along with all the required signalling, to allow one line to be dedicated for retrieving/storing the trains. That's why dedicated areas designed for storing trains overnight tend to have lots of parallel tracks rather than a few very long ones. On looking at the map, it's about 700 metres from Barbican to Moorgate, and as a District Line train is almost 120 metres long, that implies that it is the last in first out approach that will be taken. Then there is the issue of how does the train crew get back to the surface once they've parked their train? I can't imagine they are going to build egress points to the surface for each "parking station". Is there room to build a pathway for the driver, who could be faced with a 10 minute walk back to the start? In any event, this does not sound at all simple or cheap to me, which is maybe why it hasn't happened yet.
We in NYC basically do all of those things. Instead of in a shop building, our transit museum is in a disused subway station on a spur line. Also, when the subway under Broadway was designed, the local tracks would terminate at City Hall and the express tracks would continue south on a lower level. Halfway through the work, the plans were changed, the express tracks were diverted north of that location to use the Manhattan Bridge, while what was the terminal platforms at City Hall had a ramp built to the lower level to continue south. What would have been the thru lower level platform at City Hall became “City Hall Yard”, where we can store trains overnight, mid day, or when they have a problem.
Great video! It seems (last I checked) that the platforms themselves will be the only access points to the sidings, so they can park two trains per track at Barbican and Moorgate for a total of 8 trains. Surely they have the space to squeeze in 12 trains; seems like a bit of a waste not to.
It could be useful to maybe use them to terminate Metropolitan trains, because Aldgate is a bit small and only accept two trains. Using this would allow way more trains, there is four platforms at Moorgate and two at Barbican, leaving for a more frequent Metropolitant service. It would also leave some space for the circle and H&C.
There is a large complement of homeless living in these tunnels. One of the issues is finding the funding to house these people, and getting police involved to move them.
"I thought it would be fun to use them to display historic rolling stock from the London Transport Museum, but then I would" And so would all of us Mr. Hazzard, and so would all of us.
There's a disused platform at Liverpool St. on the Circle/Met/Hammersmith and City lines. It's all boxed in. The track may have been ripped up by now though. Trains terminated there at one time.
My idea is haVe one of the disused platforms partly as a museum and have the tunnel beyond it sidings with a crossover track to avoid the museum. Museum and sidings!
You'd need some way to protect the historic display stock from the elements, though. Maybe just by not keeping the same cars there for too long, though that may mean more frequent movements of the historic stock than is convenient.
I very seldom post requests, but the fate of the Widened Lines was one of them. Thanks so much for the update. It's great that they are to be given an operative purpose. Just on the museum idea: Doesn't that mean that, although relatively sheltered in the cutting, historic vehicles would be exposed to wind and weather? Also, once a vehicle had gained a position in or near Moorgate, you'd never get it out again. Also you couldn't maintain the trackwork. Etc, etc.
Still don’t understand why they removed the track at the spare platform at Mansion House. That’s another place you can remove and park a train if needed.
Good investigating, wondered this since they closed the line. Hope they don't wall/board the sidings off, its nice seeing the inner workings and old bits.
Seems a good use to put them to, but what about when you've got the DLR at Bank already extending half way to Moorgate (to Lothbury) you could just carry it on a bit to Moorgate and then along the old track route to the east side of the Farringdon Thameslink southbound platform, so making a strategic link of the DLR, Thameslink and Elizabeth line? Mad I know, but hey.
I think the surface lines have more of a main line / national rail feel to them; I also think 1972 stock would have suited the Isle of Wight. I thought the D78 stock was to big to fit through the Ryde tunnel...
