The Essence-Energies Distinction and the Knowability of God [Eastern Orthodox Theology] 

That is a journey that many have entered into, myself included. If you’ve not already done so, do read Metropolitan Ware’s “The Orthodox Church” and “The Orthodox Way” - these remain among the essential guides for converts to the Ancient Faith from other expressions of Christianity. Familiarization with the liturgy is essential - the Divine Liturgy and Vespers should be often before your eyes as you seek God’s will in this calling. There are several excellent commentaries available that explain the deep theology and symbolism lying behind the content and structure of the services. All this is intended to provide an orientation towards what the Orthodox Church is and does, which those who grow up in the Church acquire during childhood. We have some catching up to do, regardless of our Christian upbringing! There is no substitute for direct personal experience - the Orthodox invitation is to “Come and See.” And make an appointment to meet with your local priest, when the time is right - he will guide you along this path and answer all your questions with sage advice and patience. (I can say this with great confidence, as priests of the Orthodox Church are overwhelmingly kind, spiritual, and wise in the ways of God. Some jurisdictions are, perhaps, more attuned to the needs of converts than others; much has to do with the composition of the parish, but conversion is now hardly a new phenomenon in the West.) I will pray for you, brother. May God lead you in all things according to His perfect will.

@@DpHsHd Thanks! I really appreciate your words!

Got your back buddy! Let us know if you need some support or advice

@@evangelus3289 Thank you so much! I'll let you know if I have any questions

I am the only Protestant-turned-Orthodox in my family. Some family members are more understanding than others. Sometimes it can be a struggle. But it’s worth it! Truth is worth it!

How’s it going?

rather return to Scripture

​@@traesaint9328 scripture proves the church

Thank you!

@@iliya3110 I noticed that about Thomism specifically w the recent pints with aquinas episode lol

@@iliya3110 indeed it is! And thank you!

@@iliya3110 Palamism is not welcome in Catholicism. A Catholic is bound to follow the unanimous agreement of the Fathers, and the Fathers were unanimous in teaching Divine Simplicity, not palamism. Palamas taught a blasphemous doctrine about God, and it is blasphemous to call him a "saint".

@@the4gospelscommentary You’re confused in two ways. One Orthodoxy teaches Divine Simplicity but not the Absolute Divine Simplicity of Catholicism where God’s actions (and hypostases even) are erroneously collapsed into His Essence. Secondly, St Gregory Palamas is a Catholic saint commemorated on the 2nd Sunday of Lent in the so-called Eastern Catholic Chuches *approved by Rome*. Therefore you’re saying Rome has taught and judged that blasphemy is okay as this is a matter of faith and morals, something you are not permitted to believe as a Roman Catholic. I have realized Roman Catholicism is heretical and schismatic since I wrote my last comments you replied to. I’m Orthodox.

Wonderful!

Thanks!

Thanks!

Thank you for commenting! It’s a great encouragement to hear that this helped!

The mystery of God is the mystery of the Uncreated Eternal Life Who is Ecstatic Love! Christianity isn't meant to be about a distant transaction between us and God! It is a transformational fullness of Life! It is about experiencing the fullness of Christ's mystery! Such an experience is really crucial in order to truly Know the Uncreated God! Only the Uncreated is Immortal and the cause of life and immortality! It follows that isolating anything created from its Creator causes the process of its erosion! That process is reversible which means redeemable only by communing with God's Uncreated energies! It's about Theosis in the Orthodox Theology! It's about a transcendental transformation by experiencing God's Uncreated energies. The protestant and roman catholic theology denies that the created may commune with the Uncreated God by denying God's Uncreated energies! Nevertheless, our life cries out for fullness! We won't experience Life that is Life to the full, unless we experience the Eternal! Experiencing the Eternal is not about daydreaming! Experiencing the Eternal is about living for real by experiencing God Who is Life to the full! Certainly, the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect. However, the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time. Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism. According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that: God the Father is Love! God the Son is Love! God the Spirit is Love! God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit! God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit! God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son! Of course, we could never commune with God's essence but we may commune with God's Uncreated energies by experiencing the Divine and human person of Christ! Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God. By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit! Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity! You are always welcomed to experience the mystery of God's Love in the Orthodox Church! May God's Life be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real!

Council of Blachernae the synodokon of Orthodoxy the 1872 synod the confession of Dositheos and the liturgy

Also that Quote from Leo is against the soul being part of the divine being against the principalists. Try reading the whole letter mason

A total of six synods were held in Constantinople on 10 June 1341, August 1341, 4 November 1344, 1 February 1347, 8 February 1347, and 28 May 1351 to consider the issue of the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies. Collectively, these councils are accepted as having ecumenical status in the Orthodox Church.

@@dimitrispeiraias thank you very much. I’m not EO, by the way, but I’d like to represent the EOC correctly and I remain open-minded. Do you, by chance, know of a website which has the declarations of these councils (in English)?

You are right. 1.) God’s Divinity is perfectly united to His humanity, and cannot be separated. 2.) His Divinity is His Essence. 3.) His flesh is in the Eucharist. 4.) His flesh is His humanity. Conclusion: We partake, therefore, in God’s Essence, as the fathers have said.

A bit of an outsider, but Lutherans have said that 'Christ, according to His Glorified Humanity, consumes our corrupt flesh producing His incorruptible flesh,' or more simply 'we are united and partake in the person of Christ according to His Glorified Humanity, not according to His Divine Nature ' So united with the person of Christ but not the Nature/essence of the Trinity.

Keep in mind that the divine essence is God as He is in Himself, unknowable not only to man but to any created intellect; the divine energies (such as Love) are God as He manifests Himself eternally and as He gives Himself to be shared by creatures in time. Through this distinction you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the divine life without implying or endorsing pantheism. According to 1 John 4:8 "God is Love", which means that: God the Father is Love! God the Son is Love! God the Spirit is Love! God the Father manifests Himself as Love through His Son in His Holy Spirit! God the Son manifests Himself as Love from His Father in His Holy Spirit! God the Holy Spirit manifests Itself as Love from the Father through His Son! Jesus Christ the Son of God, by uniting man and God in His own one person, reopened the path for all people to have union with God. Jesus Christ the Son of God is literally alive! Christ is risen and the human race is risen! Christ is in our midst! He was and is and ever shall be. Living the Orthodox Church is about experiencing the divinity and humanity of Jesus Christ by joining His mystical body where He feed us on His own Flesh and we quench our thirst for life with His precious Blood! By participating in His Mystical Supper, our bodies are literally implanted with His resurrected body! His precious Blood is literally transfused to our veins! Our souls are literally united with His soul! His Divinity is literally infused into us! This way we partake of His Uncreated Divine Energy that is of His Father and of His Spirit! Thus we may experience the Uncreatedness of the Eternal Life by God's Will, through His Son's Grace, in His Spirit Communion! We experience the Eternal Love and Life Who is God the Trinity! May God's Love be your Life, so that you may experience Life that is Life to the full! God bless you and Live for real, my friend!

@@dimitrispeiraias thank you. This explanation helped me understand. Very good

I'm glad to hear that the explanation was helpful. God bless you my friend!

Would you say that interacting with the scripture is interacting with the Word of God? Or is it the energies of the Word of God?

You could check out Andrew Louth’s “Introducing Eastern Orthodox Theology”

The effects are the results of uncreated energies allways the energies of God are uncreated ,because they are God himself operating in each energy.

NT in the original language uses ενεργηματα ενέργεια energies energy .

So then going your logic for example Paul as he said he got in him the energy of God col 1:29 you mean the essence of God got in Paul.How we can avoid pantheism then?

Energy is also called action. The painter paints as an action

@@Theoria Okay that makes sense. So does that mean we can only know God by His actions? Also, i don't want to keep asking questions and wasting your time. So could you direct me toward good sources to read on this. Thanks

@@garyboulton2302 we know God through his energies (which are God himself) but we do not know him by essence. A good, short read on this is Basil the Great’s work Against Eunomious. Against Eunomius (Fathers of the Church Patristic Series) www.amazon.com/dp/0813201225/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_6T1CTQ99YVHNHWJ0SSP2

All we can know about a person is through what they do and say. You may get close enough to a person, such as your spouse, to know things about them they themselves do not know, however this is still through observation of their actions and words. Our relationship with God is the same. We cannot know nor comprehend the inner workings of the Trinity, but only experience the actions of our Creator.

@@aaronjones2815 Well, God can teach you things about Himself. I don't disagree with what you are saying. But you don't just get to know someone by what they do. They can tell you things about themselves. Unless you consider that an action.

It's a journal article. The debate about Palamism Ware, Kallistos. (1977) - In: Eastern churches review vol. 9 (1977) p. 45-63

@@Theoria thanks!

Not at all.

That practise and theology is at first in scripture saint Paul wrote about the ενέργειες energies of God in his epistles

Where you saw Hinduism .was the publican pray a Hinduism act???

I don't know about Hinduism, but certainly Gnosticism.

@@the4gospelscommentary where you see gnosticism do you mean paul that show a distinction between God and energies was a gnostic in 1 cor 12:6

This video is NOT of a series "for dummies". Get educated instead of whining.

The “theology” series will utilize technical terminology and will thus be of a higher rhetorical / theological caliber. Other series’ encompass similar truth but brought down more to the common vernacular

@@johnnyd2383 I know these words I was thinking of average non-orthodox person who might not get it because these videos do seem to be greared towards evangelising. I'm sorry if my concern sounded like whining to you. I just want the true faith to be understood by outsiders.

Lutherans translate the terms to 'nature/work' to talk about the same things, if I understand this video rightly. However essence and energy are English words, but you're right to want to check meanings because energy is synonymous with electricity and with magical power (in different contexts).

Thank you for saying that. When he finished I just kept wondering what did he say?

The Word and the Spirit share Father's One Essence. The Divine Essence is solely common to the Persons of the Trinity. Direct experience of the Divine Essence necessitates communing with the Essence of God. By misrepresenting the Divine Essence as communicable to creatures, you endorse polytheism or even pantheism. This way the Trinity is distorted.

Through the distinction between the Uncreated Essence and the Uncreated Energies, you may defend the possibility of a real participation in the Divine Life without implying and endorsing polytheism or pantheism.

It seems to me that God's energy or activity that we experience is the same as God's creative action. So when we experience God's action or energy, it is an experience of creation. It is a veil between us and God's Essence. God's Essence is God. God's energies are creative actions that we, created beings, may experience as creation. The light in Hesychastic practice or the experience of divine union in contemplative prayer could be called energy of God, action of God, or a created experience from God. The terms are synonymous. However, the contemplative's noetic mind is experiencing God behind a thinner veil. The veil is a created phenomenon via the energy or activity of God put between God and the contemplative. The Logos wore a veil, Jesus' humanity, a created body of flesh and blood. People could see and touch him and be healed despite the Essence of God being present, which, if unveiled, would have consumed them. The Spirit wore a thinner veil of fire and wind, pillars of smoke and fire, Shekhinah behind the veiled tabernacle, which people could see at a distance but not touch intimately until after Jesus' death and resurrection at Pentecost when the Spirit too was intimately experienced as the Comforter. Jesus gave us access to the 🔥🌪 of God that Adam lost. It seems to me, here as flesh and blood, we experience God behind a dense veil, of created activities or energies of God, like seeing the effects of the wind without seeing the wind. However, the contemplative gets to experience God as fire or light through a thinner veil by his noetic seeing that strips away layers of veils between him and God's Essence. God's Essence thinly veiled is the Spirit. God's Essence unveiled is the Father. God's Essence thickly veiled is the Incarnation. The Incarnation tempers us and leads us back to the Spirit. The Spirit enlivens us and leads us back to the Father. We can touch the Incarnation and get healed. We, healed, can then gaze on the Spirit and live. We, healed and living, in the after life, can enter into the tabernacle, its veil having been torn by Jesus' torn flesh. We in the flesh wear a thick veil and see the created actions of God. The noetic contemplatives or hesychists wear a thinner veil of light and see more of God's Essence. However, the veils of the saints in heaven are torn between them and the Father and only the Spirit surrounds or veils them. But they have also eaten the Bread of Life, consumed the sacrificial Lamb, believed Word of faith dwelling in them. Having the protective Spirit of God without, surrounding the soul, hovering, like over the void at creation; and having the sustaining Son of God within feeding the soul or filling that void in the soul, we may then dwell in the unveiled tabernacle or bosom of the Father and not die ever.

The supposed experience of the Divine Essence through created grace puts our trust in a creation. In such a case, the gap between a supposed created grace and the Essence of God is infinite. This leads to abstention from any real experience of God, which is applied atheism.

In other words, we could never be saved by the creation.

@Prescott Interesting argument. So you say that the only one we see as equal would only be ourselves. However if we see someone as equal, by extension we will see ourselves equal and accept still only us as equal as it is our standards that have been met. So love would then require not total dependability but partial? Very interesting example with the mother and the child. Indeed, there will always be a discrepancy between the two in terms of power. I think that love is neither about independence nor dependability. It's about the acquirement of independence through partial dependability. That is you are able to became independent in this life and just like your parents, but that is because of them in the first place. In this way I also think that it's the fact that they became more powerful because they had more power to make you independent as well. Equal power can't make for independent agents but only a higher power. Yes I also agree with the fact of nihilistic programming. But we don't have a framework everything is tailored towards destruction and not on building things. So we can't go against the wave since we don't have a cohesive structure in place to act as a counter force to that. I also see what's happening in this world and it is bad. However I don't see how the bad can validate the good. That is I don't see why would there need to be pressuring to prove the good in the first place. But thx anyway for the response.

That is pantheism. Actually Paul shows energy ενέργεια οf God or in the δύναμις power.even Peter that uses the word Φύσις Nature shows by the δύναμις power

The essence of God is only common to the three persons of the Holy Trinity.we participate in God by his divine uncreated majestic energies. The energies of God are actually God operating

@@user-pj7sq7ce1f That is St. Athanasius of Alexandria. Accusing him of pantheism is unwise.

@@user-pj7sq7ce1f No, we participate in God Himself through the Beatific Vision. "For we shall see him as he is." This is not a full comprehension of God, which is logically impossible for any creature. But it is a true participation in God's Essence.

@@matthewpaolantonio4003 well cant see what you say im the original language of the greek speaking fathers

Well paul clear says ενέργεια energy or ενεργηματα energies in his epistles that get in humans. See for start col1:29

The human nature in union with the Word God is a Hypostatic union on his own Person .The person of the Word God become flesh.so Jesus Christ is one person the Word God with two natures the divine and human. That is the union by Hypostasis. Only to Lord Jesus Christ.

@@user-pj7sq7ce1f Paul says nothing about "uncreated divine energy". Theology is not keyword search. The concept of divine energy puts an unnecessary and unbiblical middle-man between us and God. Scripture says the Holy Spirit himself would be with us, not some "uncreated energy".

@@LMN579 yes he does .first he shows the word δύναμις power synonyms with the word energy ενέργεια.see. The verses original language text 1cor.6:14 for δύναμις power and in col 2:12 ενέργεια energy.

@@LMN579 them go to Romans 1:20 that says for the δύναμις power it Θειοτης meaning Deity and there in the original language text is also the word αίδιος for δύναμις power. That word in greek show the uncreated it mean more them eternal.