Ferrari's 2024 F1 car is "completely revamped" in all but one area, but that's left it out on its own compared to its main F1 rivals. Has it made the right call, or baked in a fundamental performance limitation?
Man istg the Ferrari factory should get an Office style documentary at this point. Getting to view those clown to clown conversations first hand would be fucking gold
Newey himself even said the suspension was about the most important together with the floor. And ferrari is taking that into question? After a record braking dominating year for the rb19 😂 classic.
@@Jonathan-mj1oe if you used your brain to analyse the Ferrari statement given the fact most of their development has gone into the rear suspension this year, you would realise that Cardille meant that suspension concept differences is overrated, not suspension in general.
@@elianioriofarrell calm down, no need to get offensive. "Suspension setup is a bit overrated" is the quote. And by my argument, this is quite a silly statement to make.
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." "Suspension setups are overrated." Ferrari just love to make these bold claims. It's amazing how they have built some of the best cars in history but ignore key performance aspects like this.
@@Alp577Engine is nothing these days without proper aerodynamics. Power will chew the tyres and end up changing them every two laps! And they have limited tyre allocation.
Well when Enzo said that about aero he was 100% right As a matter of fact, that was his response to one of his drivers in regards to massive windshield on 250 TR 250 TR won the very race the question was asked, 24H Of Le'Mans, before there were chicanes Soooooooooooo.........
@@lazygamer923 I do. They offered him money and guaranteed #1 status if they build a car that can win him his 8th championship. It's the most Ferrari thing they can do.
Its not a necessity, just something everyone is doing to copy red bull, the Ferrari was closer to red bull at the end of last year than the others with the different rear suspension layout. As for you saying that they're going to have a "inherent disadvantage" because of this is also farce. Suspension layouts both have their advantages and disadvantages, but nothing is a necessity and performance can be found in both types.
@@codyfrance2537 The advantage with push-rod at the rear is that you can have more space in the midpart of the diffuser (higher ceiling), which helps in throwing the air that passes on top of it to the beam-wing. Also the bulky part of the suspension springs and shock absorbers and such are mounted higher, which allows for the gearbox case to be skinnier on the bottom, which again frees up diffuser space/volume. With pull-rod the connection point is lower on the gearbox and so you must use a section of the diffuser for it. As for the overall balance of the car, don't know how much it affects, but you do end up with less diffuser on the rear. But then again if the floor is not efficient, that extra space is not going to make them closer to RB. Since their floor is highly refined by now and it works pretty well, seeing how they can run skinnier wings and still have faster corner speed than their rivals.
To be fair to Ferrari, their car did pretty well last year. If you removed the self-inflicted strategy wounds, they would have done much better and could’ve given Red Bull a real challenge (or at least something closer to a real challenge). Following the herd just because “everyone is doing it” isn’t the way to win. Maybe it’s a safer bet to get 3rd to 5th place but the only way to win is by being different. It also would take time and resources away from other upgrades since they would have to rework their suspension and other related parts of the design. I guess we’ll have to see who has the last laugh…
Since when does going against the grain necessarily mean failure? We’ll have to see how they’ll fair against the people who have made the switch, and if their boldness will pay off.
It's more about the reason for going against the grain. We know the reasons why the rear push rod suspension has seemed to work better with this ground effect era (counters the down force pull from ground effect better, leaves more room for the diffuser and b-wing aero, allows for lower ride heights with less wear on the plank), but Ferrari didn't state the advantages of a pull rod rear suspension that they think makes it an unbeneficial trade off for them. They just simply said they don't believe the trade off makes much of a difference.
@@crit-c4637 Many F1 teams choose to keep their cards close to their chest until the season starts-which is most likely why Ferrari aren't disclosing the benefits of their design choices. Like I said, we'll have to see in action if their decision will pay off.
It doesn’t. But when Adrian Newey says that a majority of the focus on the RB19 was suspension and that car then goes on to become the most dominant car in all of F1 history, you really have to stop and consider whether or not your immense hubris is a problem. And believe me: Ferrari has a lot of hubris
@@mari1539It's not a silver bullet but I'm just saying it's definitely not a fad nor a coincidence. McLaren got caught out by the floor changes & a late change in development path in 2023. In 2022, James Key just made a very basic, uncompetitive car.
@@glenrobinson10McLaren weren’t more impressive than Mercedes or Ferrari. They had a few good races and that’s it. The only team other than RB that won is Ferrari. What exactly did McLaren do last year?
And yet their mechanical platform was good enough to be super strong in slow corners - it's never black and white, good/bad suspension. Their weakness last year was instability in faster corners and in windier conditions, which if it's possible to address that without completely upending your entire suspension platform and understanding, makes sense. The car was often fastest on single lap pace so there were clearly elements that worked.
Red Bull chewed up tyres in 2022 a few times and I don't think they changed their type of suspension. The problem is how they set it up. Pull rod or push rod aren't gonna fundamentally change that
They have all the data from all the tracks with this set up, they know the set up to use and the aero is designed around this. They will have improved the anti squat system for this season, as well as addressing the other weaknesses of the 23 car. If you Pursue a different suspension concept then all your data is null and void, and aero will be affected too. Charles and Carlos have said they have good feeling within the car, it’s behaving as intended. They will have more confidence to push and find the limit in a more predictable car, leading to better consistency throughout 24
You know what... I'm excited for this. Imagine the mayhem this causes if Ferrari gets an area perfect and there's a performance gap no one knew it was there
"A bold claim" is calling as "the definitive solution" the pullrod at the back. Cardile is right, both the suspensions works at the same ways but with different cinematics. Both the suspensions have pros and cons. Ferrari made the right call staying with a suspension they already know how setup properly, cause their opponents will have now a pullrod with the engineers and mechanics without habit to work on it and with a type of suspension model that have a much narrow setup window for the optimal setup, than the pushrod. It would require even one full year to other teams to know how properly stay in that setup windows to make the pullrod working properly.
Interesting to hear "Suspension setups are a bit overrated" after Adrian Newey has declared it the most important system on a ground effect car, around which the whole RB aero philosophy was built.
It should be noted that Ferrari are not ignoring the suspension as a performance Element, they actually heavily reworked the rear suspension for this year.
They also sticked with the pullrod because of one of the only strong points of the sf-23, traction out of corners and being fast in the low speed corners. Fixing their aero will fix the into the corner and high speed corner issue, so they might just pull an ace out of their sleeve here.
I understand Ferrari not wanting to copy. If you copy someone's concept you are always on the back foot unless you get creative. And that is a VERY high risk for losing performance
Ultimately ferrari will be the ones to beat red bull in this current era. Everyone else is copying redbull so they will never exceed redbull who already understand the parts everyone is copying. It's similar to how you cannot beat the master who has taught you everything you know. As they have not taught you everything they know.
He's had an ouside perspective for so long now. He should know what they're like and have a glimpse of how rhey can fuck things up. If it's gonna be a pairing like schumacher and lauda, he might have a chance.
Williams doesn't have the same due to the Deadline been set by Mercedes AMG F1 Team. Furthermore due to James Vowles creative Control there seems to be a slight split between the collaboration between Merc & the Williams F1 Team. Williams is still driving the old rear supension (2023) & get's a slight financal advantage in the cost cap area, too.
Dont forget that it was Red Bull that did that in 2022 because, well... Adrian Newey. Then McLaren picked it up last year. It wasn't until 2024 that everyone else figured it out.
I should be on the aero team for any teams .. I swear I can just see air flow .. I could help tremendously especially w the slower teams .. but highly unlikely I ever get a job doing that
That was true in the old days, they didn’t have enough understanding to make the aero work properly, so a more powerful car just won. Not the case in modern F1 😅
they don’t switch because they’ve chosen a set up of the car that prefer having a low centre of gravity instead of aerodynamic and the push rod suspension isn’t aerodynamic but has a low center of gravity
Wait. Wait! They may be onto something, I learnt about this quite a while back and being a Mech with specialization in VD and aero - i did run some sims and it kinda helps with the 2026 changes (shorter and narrower cars with more HP coming in) Don't go to the pushrod now.
Suspension setups are over rated is a bold claim indeed considering it’s been a key factor in determining if a car is quick or not for the last 2 years
Coming from the same company whose leader once said “Aerodynamics are for people who can’t build engines.” The workers of a company come and go but unfortunately the culture doesn’t change and it’s one of Ferrari’s weaknesses.
if they change to red bull design they are throwing away their 2 years development of the car, something they don't really want to do since they are already 2nd best team. to be realistic nobody can beat red bull until the next major regulation change, but someone else will be dominating everything thanks to budget cap
Last seasons Ferrari was just as quick as the r.b over 1 lap.. tire deg was there main weakness and a shit pit wall slowed them down greatly they must have seen something with the pull rod suspension. Hopefully the pit wall stops pulling there rods as well
Ferrari seems to have a trend of going against the grain and not accepting the traditional lines of thinking, and then being shocked when that fails them because those lines of thinking were well accepted BECAUSE they led to success. We'll see if this is the same story or if it pays off for them this time.
Seeing as the change doesn’t seems to affect anything, this feels like a way for red bull to have the team lose time on this. They probably soend 30sec thinking and testing this while the others spend weeks on this. Ferrari isn’t far behind Red Bull, meaning that their recipe isn’t bad.
tbh Ferrari were the closest to redbull on pace throughout the season, took more poles than any other team besides redbull, the only team to win a race besides redbull and the only team to nearly beat rb on pure race during the race had it not be for the sc in Vegas
Bold statement coming from the designer or out of ignorance? True, a fast car requires a fine balance of all parameters; there is no Wholly Graal in modern racing. The final result is on the horizon, also and perhaps unfortunately for Haas as well.
“Suspension setup is a bit overrated” Sounds a bit like the time when they were saying “Aerodynamics is for those who can’t build an engine” Their arrogance really is the reason why they haven’t been competitive for 1 and a half decades
Engineering is all about craft a product by employing a number of compromises to create a produce a tool that can assist mankind to accomplish a task better, more efficiently than any previous tool. Auto racing in general, and Formula One in particular, now represent the epitome of engineering design nowadays. This example of engineering design compromises illustrates so perfectly why.
What happened when a new thing like aerodynamics and mid engines came in f1? Well, you guessed it, the same reaction as this, "the new idea is overrated." So tell me then Enzo, where is the engine in f1 cars now? At front or in the middle? And what are all those wings and vents in the car?
They are definitely the best other than redbull right now so I think it will pay off, we will see how it holds up when their competitors atart adding upgrade packages
commenting while ferrari is only four points behind redbull, maybe they arent crazy to spend their budget on bigger factors that will get them closer to overtaking rb…
The Clip fails in logic: The suspension is key of some of the concepts- Ferrari has a different concept and therefore has different key areas at their car.
